#tor-meeting log

14:00:45 <pili> #startmeeting ux team
14:00:45 <MeetBot> Meeting started Tue Mar 31 14:00:45 2020 UTC.  The chair is pili. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:00:45 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
14:00:50 <pili> :)
14:00:55 <antonela> thanks!
14:01:00 <antonela> hello o/
14:01:07 <pili> hi!
14:01:09 <antonela> last ux meeting of the month
14:01:16 <antonela> https://pad.riseup.net/p/tor-ux-team-2020-keep
14:01:18 <antonela> here is the pad
14:01:18 <thurayya> 0/
14:01:26 <antonela> please add your updates and any topic for discussion
14:01:37 <antonela> i added some of them, one for pili and one for thurayya
14:01:51 <antonela> take your time to fill the pad
14:02:02 <pili> nice :), let me see...
14:02:34 <dgoulet> o/
14:02:48 <antonela> hi dgoulet o/
14:03:11 <antonela> dgoulet: i dont think this is the meeting you are looking for but you are welcome!
14:03:26 <antonela> oki, lets start
14:03:41 <antonela> do we have emmapeel around?
14:03:47 <antonela> i think we lost tunde :(
14:04:11 <diogorsergio> hi all o/
14:04:17 <antonela> hey diogorsergio!
14:04:50 * antonela sorted the discussion items
14:04:51 <diogorsergio> I dont have much to note down, but able to pick a couple tasks this week.
14:05:29 <antonela> diogorsergio: super, lets talk about it after the discussion items
14:06:06 <antonela> so im trying to keep our kanban alive
14:06:07 <antonela> https://gitlab.torproject.org/groups/torproject/ux/-/boards
14:06:36 <antonela> i want to ask you to add a label to any ticket you are working on with [April 2020] label
14:06:46 <antonela> you can do that with tickets under /ux
14:06:47 <dgoulet> antonela: oh yes I'm off by 1 hour, sorry :)
14:06:59 <antonela> dgoulet: i bet :)
14:07:22 <antonela> pili: could that work to keep it updated?
14:07:32 <pili> yup
14:07:34 <antonela> pili: what is the behaviour with tickets _outside_ ux?
14:07:59 <pili> it would also help if people create and assign any tasks they are working on
14:08:00 <pili> and update them if possible :)
14:08:29 <pili> I want to experiment with using the global torproject kanban
14:08:35 <pili> and filtering by UX keyword also
14:08:41 <pili> let me find the link
14:09:20 <pili> https://gitlab.torproject.org/groups/torproject/-/boards
14:10:00 <pili> I need to work with gaba to have columns that work for all teams though
14:10:01 <pili> so we can consolidate processes across teams
14:10:04 <antonela> keyword as a label?
14:10:20 <antonela> like https://gitlab.torproject.org/groups/torproject/-/boards?scope=all&utf8=%E2%9C%93&state=opened&label_name[]=UX
14:10:40 <pili> antonela: yeah I think so
14:10:44 <pili> unless there is a better way
14:11:13 <antonela> yes, i'm happy to follow any workflow you and gaba decides
14:11:16 <pili> the current "defect" and "enhancement" columns don't really work well for our workflow
14:11:41 <antonela> for now we will be working with tickets inside our team (/ux)
14:12:01 <pili> ideally I'd have backlog, in progress, needs-review and closed (or similar)
14:12:02 <antonela> which works for thurayya on /research tickets
14:12:02 <pili> anyway
14:12:03 <pili> yup
14:12:12 <pili> it's just when we have cross team work it's good to not have ticket duplication
14:12:18 <antonela> and works for me and others on /design tickets
14:12:29 <pili> +1
14:13:10 <antonela> ok
14:13:32 <antonela> next item
14:13:37 <thurayya> sorry, i'm back, i didnt realize i was off ://
14:13:48 <antonela> thurayya: oi nah!
14:14:03 <antonela> pili: i added the next item for you
14:14:12 <antonela> i want to make sure that we have the roadmaps inline
14:14:25 <pili> thanks :)
14:14:40 <antonela> so s27 ends today, we are already working with s30
14:14:43 <antonela> s9 is going on
14:14:55 <antonela> when does s58 start?
14:14:56 <pili> yup, I need to update the ALL Teams planning spreadsheet
14:15:00 <pili> now in April
14:15:09 <antonela> oh wow
14:15:13 <antonela> ok
14:15:15 <pili> let me double check the timeline for UX work
14:15:24 <pili> well, we started the work end of February already :)
14:15:46 <antonela> for s58?
14:16:01 <pili> and contract will start April 1st
14:16:02 <pili> yup
14:16:03 <pili> let me double check when we had planned UX work to review Fenix UI
14:16:15 <thurayya> pili, antonela, can i add the researches planed in the roadmap as issues?
14:16:28 <antonela> i tagged some issues last week in trac pili
14:16:28 <pili> yup
14:16:34 <antonela> thurayya: yes please
14:16:45 <thurayya> ok
14:16:56 <antonela> thurayya: i love the way we are using issues in /research
14:16:57 <pili> antonela: thanks, I saw, I'm slowly tagging others with people's help and then I'll start adding to objectives and activities
14:17:24 <antonela> thurayya: we can keep doing it and label with the current month to make it appear in the kanban eg. [April 2020
14:17:24 <pili> antonela: have you seen the sponsor page in trac already? https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/org/sponsors/Sponsor58
14:17:49 <thurayya> antonela: perfect! will do that!
14:18:08 <antonela> pili: O2.1 seems mine
14:18:26 <pili> yup
14:18:50 <antonela> okey, i feel we need a meeting to kick off this sponsor and define the scope
14:19:04 <antonela> but i need to sync with sysrqb about it
14:19:07 <pili> yup
14:19:29 <pili> I was wondering whether to do it during the regular browser meeting though
14:19:49 <antonela> i'll be happy if we also can use s58 to bring to mobile the improvements we want to achieve with s30 in desktop, but im not sure if that is posible
14:20:00 <pili> as we're all there generally
14:20:01 <pili> but a kick off meeting is good and won't hurt
14:20:14 <antonela> pili: i dont have a preference, but we need to discuss this sponsor
14:20:37 <antonela> oki, am i missing anything else from my timeline?
14:20:56 <pili> I think the mobile improvements will have to wait until after that is done... we can try to sneak some in opportunistically though :)
14:21:17 <antonela> yes, lets see
14:21:55 <antonela> s27, s30, s58 and s9 running at the moment
14:22:00 <pili> antonela: for S58 I have you on O2.1 in April or May (you can choose... | )
14:22:09 <pili> S27 will be over tomorrow ;P
14:22:17 <pili> but yes
14:22:24 <antonela> i'm trying to focus on s30 so may is better for mobile
14:22:39 <pili> ok
14:22:45 <antonela> cool
14:22:51 <antonela> pili: anything else?
14:22:57 <antonela> pili: am i missing anything?
14:23:12 <pili> there may be some stuff on onion certs but that will be in September
14:23:41 <antonela> which stuff?
14:24:27 <antonela> oki, we can discuss later
14:24:33 <antonela> groot here pili?
14:24:38 <pili> yup, thank you
14:25:13 <antonela> thurayya: do you want to go next? i just want to talk here about the tools we have been talking about and how it can get involved with the development process
14:25:29 <thurayya> ok
14:25:38 <antonela> given the crazy status of the world all our user research will be moved to a remote fashion
14:25:39 <thurayya> yesterday ggus shared with us this
14:25:45 <thurayya> https://github.com/awesome-selfhosted/awesome-selfhosted#ux-testing
14:26:03 <pili> we should test running it as an onion service :)
14:26:21 <thurayya> good challenge haha
14:26:31 <thurayya> we have 3 tools listed there
14:26:44 <thurayya> i'm analysing them, but one of them is not being developed anymore
14:26:55 <thurayya> so we can have a look at the Uier and Selenoid
14:27:13 <antonela> using selenium is a great move and we will need to discuss it with developers
14:27:50 <antonela> i wonder how we can use it to distribute specific builds across users
14:27:57 <thurayya> have you used selenium before?
14:28:05 <antonela> im not honestly
14:28:39 <antonela> but seems the picked choice for automated testing, more popular around qa people than us
14:28:40 <thurayya> me neither
14:29:20 <antonela> do you want to move forward with this proposal thurayya?
14:29:49 <thurayya> yes! i plan to run a local test to see how it works
14:29:58 <thurayya> where is the best place to discuss
14:30:03 <thurayya> if we can use it?
14:30:21 <antonela> i think we can discuss a proposal in the ticket and then bring it to the browser meeting to see what they say
14:30:34 <thurayya> ok, perfect
14:30:42 <thurayya> it is now linked to the onion services research
14:30:57 <T0_7_> Hi all, nice to be here
14:31:12 <thurayya> but maube creating an specific ticket for it
14:31:14 <thurayya> right?
14:31:17 <thurayya> maybe*
14:31:19 <antonela> thurayya: we will need to see how it is related with the onion services research
14:31:25 <antonela> thurayya: yes, maybe
14:31:35 <antonela> hey T0_7_, glad to see you around
14:32:11 <thurayya> ok, let's discuss it there then
14:32:17 <pili> thurayya: yes I think if we're exploring remote user testing tools it should be a separate ticket
14:32:27 <antonela> diogorsergio: have you been using remote user testing tools before? which of them?
14:33:05 <antonela> oki, thurayya the next is yours too i think
14:33:13 <diogorsergio> I've used userzoom before.
14:33:45 <thurayya> i heard about userzoom, but it's not opensource as far as i know
14:33:53 <thurayya> :(
14:33:55 <diogorsergio> But not extensively..
14:33:58 <diogorsergio> yeah not at all
14:34:29 <antonela> yep, we should find a tool that keeps users data safe
14:34:35 <antonela> diogorsergio: thank you
14:34:44 <antonela> thurayya: next one is yours too
14:34:55 <thurayya> ok
14:34:56 <antonela> T0_7_: do you want to update us about your research at the end?
14:35:22 <T0_7_> Yep
14:35:24 <thurayya> we have to scripts for onion services now
14:35:33 <thurayya> one is demographics
14:35:35 <thurayya> https://gitlab.torproject.org/torproject/ux/research/issues/6
14:35:53 <thurayya> i would love to get your opinions in the changes i've made
14:35:59 <thurayya> just small changes
14:36:00 <T0_7_> I've commenced the Uganda cohort of my research. I've begun contacting potential interviewees
14:36:19 <antonela> thurayya: i can review it today
14:36:28 <T0_7_> I was supposed to travel there from April 26 but the pandemic changed all that
14:36:31 <thurayya> as remote research has its challenges, and the survey *must* have all the information the user needs when they are reading/filling
14:36:53 <T0_7_> I've scheduled the first interview for Friday
14:36:59 <thurayya> ah, T0_7_ can go on, and I go next, no problem :)
14:37:14 <antonela> thurayya: yes, when you shared tools for research i thought you were finding an alternative to LimeSurvey
14:37:20 <T0_7_> That's all the updates I have for now
14:38:05 <antonela> T0_7_: good thank you, did you were able to see the notes i took from the interviews hosted in NC?
14:38:27 <antonela> thurayya: sorry, yes we should have all the info there
14:38:39 <emmapeel> ooops sorry
14:38:39 <thurayya> nice T0_7_! how do you plan to run the interviews?
14:39:20 <T0_7_> I've seen some of the notes. Will take a deeper look in the coming days. The interviews are online.
14:39:55 <T0_7_> Skype, Zoom, WhatsApp or Signal depending on preference of interviewee
14:40:31 <T0_7_> From my experience in Zimbabwe, some are only comfortable with filling paper questionnaires and are reluctant to chat online
14:41:58 <antonela> T0_7_: yes, is true
14:42:08 <antonela> T0_7_: we have been using jitsi internally for our calls
14:42:17 <thurayya> i see, and we have to adapt to the interviewees
14:42:24 <T0_7_> Ok, maybe I'll try that too
14:42:36 <antonela> T0_7_: meet.jit.si
14:43:20 <T0_7_> However, honestly I prefer physical interviews like I did in Nigeria and Cameroon. The interaction and data is perhaps richer. However the pandemic has affected that
14:43:48 <antonela> yes, for sure
14:44:00 <antonela> thurayya: sorry, you were talking :) what is next?
14:44:07 <thurayya> in person interviews are always better for me too...
14:44:09 <thurayya> yes!
14:44:16 <thurayya> remote research challeges
14:44:17 <thurayya> haha
14:44:55 <antonela> yes, i've been using proprietary software before and also savage data collectors
14:45:05 <antonela> i hope we can find something that works for us with the needs we havev
14:45:23 <thurayya> si!
14:45:26 <thurayya> so, while analysing the new tools, the research problems/goals are in the scripts
14:45:52 <thurayya> we have new demographics and the script for OS
14:45:57 <antonela> perfect
14:46:04 <antonela> now we need users
14:46:10 <thurayya> first we thought about running this with a more technical audiene
14:46:25 <thurayya> yes
14:46:44 <thurayya> ggus and i will be contacting partners this week
14:46:59 <thurayya> but i'm not sure if it's the case to run it with them
14:47:03 <thurayya> what do you think?
14:47:39 <antonela> i think we should find a good pool of 5-10 users we would like to run it with and run it
14:47:49 <antonela> i dont think we can do it through orgas at this time
14:48:06 <thurayya> i was thinking about two options: partners participating in the research themselves; 2) partners running with their communities
14:48:25 <antonela> that could work, yes
14:48:39 <thurayya> antonela: ok. then, running with partners works
14:48:50 <antonela> yep
14:49:19 <thurayya> they are already familirized with our tools and it's not complex
14:49:35 <antonela> perfect
14:49:51 <antonela> i'll review the demographics and the final script this week so we can start to call for testing next week (the first week of april) and run this the 3rd and 4th week
14:49:51 <thurayya> thanks!
14:50:12 <antonela> cool
14:50:17 <thurayya> perfect, that gives us plenty of time to test the other tools too
14:50:29 <antonela> we need to sync about s30 thurayya, i made a draft for testing bridges
14:50:52 <antonela> my plan is still the same, working on s30 the entire april
14:51:24 <antonela> maybe we can run user research at the end of april/may
14:51:36 <antonela> oki, anything else folks?
14:51:57 <thurayya> antonela: ok
14:52:06 <thurayya> when do wanna sync?
14:52:26 <thurayya> thurs?
14:52:30 <antonela> tomorrow?
14:52:50 <thurayya> tomorrow i can't
14:52:56 <thurayya> but the next days yes
14:53:04 <antonela> diogorsergio: #3455 and #32228 were listed in the "call for design" last month
14:53:19 <antonela> ay #3544
14:53:35 <thurayya> but antonela i think we can activate our partners in uganda to test it
14:53:35 <antonela> thurayya: thursday works for me, at morning? feel free to ping me i'll be around
14:53:41 <thurayya> ok!
14:53:44 <thurayya> will do :)
14:54:01 <antonela> super, thanks!
14:54:15 <antonela> i think that is all
14:54:22 <antonela> any last words?
14:54:29 <pili> I'm good
14:54:42 <pili> (S27 meeting starting in 5 minutes)
14:54:46 <thurayya> stay inside and take care :)
14:55:00 <antonela> yes, stay safe!
14:55:05 <antonela> thanks folks o/
14:55:08 <pili> thank you!
14:55:12 <pili> #endmeeting