18:59:56 <GeKo> #startmeeting network-health
18:59:56 <MeetBot> Meeting started Mon Mar 23 18:59:56 2020 UTC.  The chair is GeKo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:59:56 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
19:00:38 <gaba> o/
19:00:46 <GeKo> okay
19:00:53 <GeKo> pad is at https://pad.riseup.net/p/tor-networkhealth-2020.1-keep
19:01:04 <GeKo> please add your items if there is something to add
19:01:27 <ggus> hey
19:03:04 <GeKo> alreight
19:03:08 <GeKo> *alright
19:03:29 <GeKo> ggus: is that item you have supposed to be bold? ;)
19:04:09 <ggus> yess
19:04:15 <GeKo> good, good
19:04:29 <dennis_jackson> o/
19:04:53 <GeKo> o/
19:05:15 <GeKo> ggus: i have one item for you in my status update
19:05:35 <GeKo> do we have such a list of relay operators with some kind of notes
19:05:42 <dgoulet> o/
19:05:44 <GeKo> how good we know them
19:05:48 <GeKo> ?
19:06:03 <GeKo> or what contacts we have/means reaching them?
19:06:28 <GeKo> arma2 brought this up recently (again)
19:06:29 <ggus> hum, we don't. or at least colin didn't make one.
19:06:45 <GeKo> as an operator suddenly tried to contribute >100 exit relays
19:06:53 <GeKo> they seemed kind of legit
19:06:56 <GeKo> but still...
19:07:56 <GeKo> ggus: okay. do you think as well it would be useful if we tried to create some document for that?
19:08:27 <GeKo> or what's your stance here?
19:08:50 <ggus> GeKo: we should check how sarah is doing with donators, if she is using a spreadsheet or a CRM to do this kind of list.
19:09:05 <ggus> but yes, we need to have a system or at least a document
19:09:35 <GeKo> sounds good
19:10:01 <GeKo> i can imagine we could use such a list for more than the regular troubleshooting
19:10:29 <GeKo> or an "hey, please update your tor version on your relay"
19:11:04 <GeKo> but okay, let's ask sarah and then think more about it, i guess?
19:11:38 <ggus> yes, i'll check with her
19:11:52 <ggus> GeKo: but
19:12:29 <ggus> GeKo: do you think in this list only relay operators with more than X% ?
19:12:47 <ggus> X for bw, relays, exits?
19:13:14 <GeKo> well, we could
19:13:31 <GeKo> there are a bunch of criteria
19:13:37 <GeKo> that could be interesting
19:13:59 <GeKo> i guess a good thing could be to have a general list of relay op contacts
19:14:11 <GeKo> and then sorting it according to criteria we want
19:14:29 <GeKo> maybe that's overkill
19:14:32 <ggus> i can do that easily with metabase
19:14:33 <GeKo> at least for a start
19:14:42 <GeKo> great
19:14:52 <GeKo> the idea came from a bad-relay context
19:15:05 <GeKo> so that's one angle to keep in mind
19:15:24 <GeKo> but there are a ton of use cases more that could be interesting here
19:15:45 <GeKo> like sending out "thank you emails" to particular groups
19:15:53 <ggus> yes, for sure. for example, if we need to ask private bridges, i'd ask to relay operators that we trust and have capacity
19:16:05 <GeKo> depending on campaigns we have etc.
19:16:12 <GeKo> yeah, and that one
19:17:37 <GeKo> okay, i don't see anything more bolded in the status updates
19:17:42 <GeKo> are we good with that part?
19:18:16 <ggus> yes yes
19:18:22 <GeKo> okay, discussion
19:18:38 <GeKo> are we good with finally moving the meeting to 1800 utc next week?
19:18:57 <GeKo> that should give the old local time back to those folks who already have dst
19:19:01 <gaba> yes
19:19:11 <ggus> i'm ok
19:19:39 <GeKo> hearing no (strong) objections, then let's do it
19:19:55 <dgoulet> yah it is good
19:19:58 <GeKo> i'll announce it tomorrow on the net health list
19:20:02 <GeKo> thanks
19:20:08 <GeKo> so, ggus, your item then
19:20:17 <ggus> so we have docshackathon this week!
19:20:21 <ggus> /o/
19:20:24 <GeKo> yay
19:20:45 <ggus> basically, we are updating documentation of these portals: tb-manual, support, community, tpo
19:21:19 <ggus> i need to check with kushal the state of rpm.tpo documentation, so we can change in community.tpo/relay/setup
19:22:15 <ggus> i will open new issues that we collected to do the tor legal faq
19:22:31 <GeKo> as to your questions, i am honestly not sure whether we need to about docs about relays
19:22:42 <GeKo> s/about/update/
19:23:11 <GeKo> when did they get updated last time?
19:23:30 <GeKo> maybe that could be an indicator whether someone should look over them again
19:24:28 <ggus> the instructions are fresh. we didn't make any significant change in the last months. but might worth to read again about automatic updates in debian, for example.
19:25:20 <GeKo> okay
19:26:01 <GeKo> ggus: if you have something you think i could be helpful from a network health perspective let me know
19:26:15 <dennis_jackson> (Sorry I added a topic late - apparently my edit was rejected the first time and I didn't realise)
19:26:30 <GeKo> it's okay
19:26:32 <ggus> GeKo: ok! thanks
19:26:32 <GeKo> :)
19:26:57 <GeKo> do we have anything else for the hackathon?
19:27:27 <ggus> we are hanging out on #tor-www if you want to help. that's it! :)
19:27:43 <GeKo> k
19:27:50 <GeKo> dennis_jackson: you are up
19:27:55 <dennis_jackson> thanks!
19:28:19 <dennis_jackson> So I saw George's DoS prevention using anon credentials email recetnly on tor-dev
19:28:22 <dennis_jackson> recently*
19:28:46 <dennis_jackson> If implemented, this obviously has nice network health benefits, less frustrated users / HS operators
19:29:11 <dennis_jackson> Are any extensions or applications for exit nodes being considered or already ruled out?
19:30:08 <dennis_jackson> For example, if the same scheme was reused for exit nodes, could we see (some) exit nodes apply anti-abuse schemes of their own initiative and thus reduce Cloudflare etc abuse
19:30:21 <GeKo> yes
19:30:40 <GeKo> we have had ideas for years e.g. to have kind of private exits, too
19:30:47 <dennis_jackson> I would not advocate for making it mandatory or anything, but if we could solve both problems with the same solution/engineering effort...
19:30:52 <GeKo> and a scheme like privacypass could help with credentials here
19:31:13 <dennis_jackson> Yes. I would like Tor to do this work, because if Cloudflare + Google push a solution, I am sure it will be worse
19:31:24 <GeKo> so alex davidson from cloudflare pointed me to the ietf session
19:31:40 <GeKo> and i agree we probably should have someone there if possible
19:31:54 <GeKo> for me it's likely too late in the evening
19:32:01 <dennis_jackson> Okay, that sounds great. With the Tor work on Hidden Services, is there a network health voice in the room already?
19:32:08 <GeKo> and i pointed asn, sysrqb, and mikeperry to it
19:32:33 <GeKo> that could easily be dgoulet ;)
19:32:47 <GeKo> even though i am not sure what you mean with "room"
19:33:02 <GeKo> either way it seem like mike will pick this up
19:33:04 <dennis_jackson> I think I saw there was a big DoS HS call recently
19:33:13 <GeKo> yeah
19:33:21 <dennis_jackson> so I figured that corresponded to some interested group
19:33:32 <dennis_jackson> okay, great, sounds like it is in good hands then
19:33:46 <GeKo> i think so. thanks for the reminder
19:33:55 <dennis_jackson> np, just wanted to ask :)
19:34:22 <GeKo> okay, do we have anything else for today?
19:36:10 <ggus> i'm good
19:36:24 <dennis_jackson> all good here
19:36:37 <GeKo> thanks then everyone! have a nice week and happy hacking
19:36:40 <GeKo> #endmeeting