19:00:18 #startmeeting network health 19:00:18 Meeting started Mon Feb 24 19:00:18 2020 UTC. The chair is GeKo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 19:00:18 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 19:00:27 o/ 19:00:48 hi! 19:00:56 o/ 19:01:08 o/ 19:01:31 let's look at the pad 19:01:38 https://pad.riseup.net/p/tor-networkhealth-2020.1-keep 19:01:51 if you worked on network health things please update the status 19:02:01 otherwise if there is something we should discuss 19:02:14 mark either your status item bold 19:02:20 or put it in the discussion section 19:02:44 we are missing some folks today 19:02:49 like ggus and phw 19:03:01 which might impact some discussion points but we'll see 19:03:38 okay 19:03:59 the "Guidelines on ethical operating a relay" could be moved to next week 19:04:03 for when ggus and phw are around 19:04:17 yes, i think that makes the most sense 19:04:27 gaba: do you know whether this got discussed at fosdem, too? 19:04:37 like was there are session or meet-up about that? 19:04:42 the idea is that it may be a good idea to draft guidelines for what to expect for relay operators 19:04:44 or where folks brought it up 19:04:53 no session but just talks on the hallways about this 19:05:00 okay 19:05:06 explaining the first link to discussion in tor-relays mailng list 19:05:22 about expanding code of conduct 19:05:40 this may also be something that tor relay operators may work on themselves 19:05:53 yes 19:06:16 i guess one discussion point could be how exactly we as an org could and should step in here 19:06:26 right 19:06:33 i can bring it back when ggus is around 19:06:41 sounds good, thanks 19:07:04 so, we are already at the discussion stage it seems as no items are marked as bold 19:07:39 dgoulet: may i ask you to write the mail to alessandro about their research 19:07:46 gaba: for historical context, the jap anonymity system got signed contractual agreements from each of its relay operators. i don't think we should do that, but it is a thing to compare to. 19:07:54 i think you said "sure" but they wrote again today 19:08:01 so i thought i re-ping you :) 19:09:09 okay, the other item on the discussion section 19:09:27 GeKo: yes on my list today 19:09:34 i plan to move forward with #32672 this week and write to more relay operators 19:09:38 dgoulet: thanks 19:09:46 but then folks mentioned the bridges 19:09:53 and i don't know what to do about those 19:10:07 phw was communicating with bridge operators, right? 19:10:09 phw is afk so maybe we need to think without him about that 19:10:15 yes 19:10:39 but afaict mostly with those having bridges in tor browser 19:10:49 but i suspect with other ones, too 19:11:14 some bridges have contactinfos. many don't. 19:11:23 contacting the ones that do have the contactinfo seems smart 19:11:28 since they're probably better bridges anyway 19:11:44 i did a grep earlier to find out if there are old bridges still around, and the answer is yes there are 19:11:59 not only that but Serge doesn't run the tor version that kicks out 0.3.3.x, etc, so there are older bridges still too. 19:12:09 uh 19:12:18 hrm 19:12:56 is serge running that tor version on purpose? 19:13:01 probably no 19:13:10 it's just that nobody pushed gman to upgrade 19:13:24 * GeKo makes a note to do that 19:13:37 i told him there's no rush, since nobody has contacted those older bridges anyway 19:13:43 and once he does upgrade, they will vanish and we'll never know about them 19:14:13 indeed, so we might use that moment as an opportunity and do the contacting 19:14:20 and get serge upgraded 19:14:46 i guess i can look at the bridge data and see how severe the problem of older versions there is 19:14:56 and then extract a list of folks to contact 19:15:05 and then write another batch of emails 19:15:15 makes sense. the public (sanitized) bridge info leaves out contactinfo, 19:15:18 unless we have a better plan than that 19:15:20 so you'd want to look at the sekrit internal bridge data set 19:15:30 yes 19:15:51 i guess someone needs to get me access to that 19:16:02 OR gives me all the details to send the mails out :) 19:16:25 OR does all of it themselves ;) 19:17:06 anyway, i guess we can coordinate all the details once the relay mails are out 19:18:03 alright, do we have anything else we want to discuss today? 19:18:36 i have a pile of notes on tickets i am thinking to create. but i can coordinate with you at some later point. you have enough tickets to work on, i think. 19:18:54 yep 19:19:06 i realize a familiar pattern from tor browser land 19:19:25 oh? 19:19:31 that is the work to do is growing faste than the things that got done 19:19:36 *faster 19:20:04 so, yes, i won't get bored 19:20:24 oh, maybe as another update 19:20:44 i started to reach out to folks to run relays for network health purposes 19:21:07 i even got some money promise from isa for that 19:21:18 so this is coming at some point 19:21:33 and the current plan is to start with two relays 19:22:09 GeKo: for you to run the relays? 19:22:10 (one of them used for weird tor setups, like on a windows machine with nss instead of openssl etc. to shake out bugs) 19:22:17 this will be a milestone, in that i think the tor project has never run relays before 19:22:36 probably, yes, with help from others 19:22:47 i roped tjr in for the windows one 19:22:56 so technically i might not even run that one 19:23:05 for a while we had plans for tor to never run relays, because it introduces new legal questions that otherwise weren't there (and we have enough legal questions already, as the developers of the hammer that somebody else could use to smash windows) 19:23:27 but i think shari decided that those legal questions were nonsense and we should not worry 19:23:48 but, still something to think about, if it is as easy to get somebody else, like tjr, to run them for you :) 19:24:01 yeah, definitely 19:24:15 i don't want to run parts of the network 19:25:23 alright, anything else last minute? 19:26:03 nothing it seems. thanks everyone! 19:26:05 #endmeeting