19:01:54 <gaba> #startmeeting network health team meeting, 10 february 2020
19:01:54 <MeetBot> Meeting started Mon Feb 10 19:01:54 2020 UTC.  The chair is gaba. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
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19:02:05 <gaba> the pad is here: https://pad.riseup.net/p/tor-networkhealth-2020.1-keep
19:02:30 <gaba> you could add your status in line 33 of the pad if you have any for this week
19:02:41 <gaba> and please add anything to the agenda you may need
19:05:10 <arma> (hello world, i am around in case needed. catching up on things. i think i might have a funder phone call in 25 minutes.)
19:05:37 <gaba> o/
19:05:43 <gaba> first item in the agenda is the roadmap for Q1
19:06:18 <gaba> we added a few tickets to the list and geko created the ones that we need. You can see that we are using the keyword network-health-roadmap-2020Q1 in trac
19:07:09 <gaba> we will review this roadmap at the end of April
19:07:37 <gaba> the second item is also an annoucement of the gsoc projects that pili is sending
19:08:57 <gaba> and the 3rd item in the list is about metrics queries for GoodBadISPs. RotationMatrix: is that your topic?
19:09:41 <rotationmatrix> yes
19:10:15 <gaba> what is that you want to discuss?
19:10:24 <rotationmatrix> working on improvements for GoodBadISPs. Wondering which would be good queries to use.
19:10:31 <ggus> rotationmatrix is working on this https://dip.torproject.org/torproject/web/community/issues/72#note_483
19:10:50 <rotationmatrix> thanks ggus! was just about to grab that.
19:11:15 <gaba> great! this may be something to bring to Thurday's meeeting from the metrics team
19:12:02 <gaba> adding it to the agenda for Thursday: https://pad.riseup.net/p/tor-metricsteam-2020.1-keep
19:12:17 <rotationmatrix> perfect
19:12:37 <dennis_jackson> In principle this would be some kind of mapping from ISPs to stats that Metrics holds about relays using those ISPs?
19:12:55 <dennis_jackson> E.g. count? bandwidth? exit or not? age?
19:13:15 <dennis_jackson> And turned into some kind of score to help people work out where to host their own?
19:13:23 <ggus> we want to improve the GoodBad ISPs page using the information about good isps from metrics. so we need to think how using metrics info we could determine if an ASN is good: number of relays? network diversity (OS?)? bandwidth?
19:13:31 <gaba> There is already a suggestion from irl in that ticket
19:13:49 <ggus> dennis_jackson: yep
19:15:00 <ggus> dennis_jackson: we have too many relays in 5 ASNs
19:15:13 <rotationmatrix> planning on linking all ASNs to relay searches per irl's suggestion. debating whether to use a normal search or aggregate.
19:15:49 <dennis_jackson> Ah, I didn't know it was so unbalanced, that's interesting.
19:15:49 <rotationmatrix> examples:
19:15:52 <rotationmatrix> https://metrics.torproject.org/rs.html#search/country:at
19:15:54 <ggus> https://community.torproject.org/relay/technical-considerations/  (see AS/location diversity)
19:15:58 <rotationmatrix> https://metrics.torproject.org/rs.html#aggregate/all/country:at
19:16:04 <arma> other idea: link back to these metrics from inside atlas, so when people see a relay, they know immediately that it's in an overrepresented place
19:16:52 <arma> (as opposed to having to think of the idea on their own and go find the metrics diversity graphs themselves)
19:17:05 <ggus> atlas is the new metrics.tpo? or we still have another thing called atlas?
19:17:15 <arma> yes. "relay-search" i think is its new name.
19:17:28 <arma> atlas.torproject.org sends you to https://metrics.torproject.org/rs.html
19:17:35 <irl> not to be confused with relay search, an unrelated previous thing that did something else
19:18:20 <irl> it would be nice to have the good bad isps page in a more machine-friendly format
19:18:43 <irl> this data is crying out to be mashed up but a wiki page isn't great for doing that with
19:19:02 <arma> (not only that, but the wiki doesn't let most people edit the page, because it has too many links in it so you are a spammer)
19:19:04 <ggus> irl: i was thinking to keep the goodbadisp page in wiki, since the community can collaborate more freely, which also means outdated info...
19:19:43 <irl> ggus: arma seems to disagree that it helps you collaborate more freely
19:20:18 <irl> but machine readable doesn't need to mean not on the wiki, for example the metrics timeline is a wiki page but we are strict with the formatting of the table and have scripts for parsing it
19:20:20 <ggus> well, you need to solve a captcha or deal with PRs and GitHub.
19:20:38 <irl> https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/doc/MetricsTimeline
19:21:12 <irl> machine readable is also going to help with having a better framework for comparing isps, identifying common pathologies, etc
19:21:23 <irl> right now it's all pretty free text and open
19:21:39 <dennis_jackson> Oh man, that timeline is incredibly useful and I had no idea it existed
19:22:02 <dennis_jackson> (thanks irl)
19:22:17 <irl> we include data from the timeline underneath metrics graphs, we could include good bad isps data on relay search if it were equally accessible to us
19:24:10 <gaba> irl: do you think it makes sense to continue discussion in the ticket or in the meeting with karsten?
19:24:49 <irl> good bad isps is a network health topic, metrics will consume the data if it is presented in a consumable form
19:24:59 <irl> if there are questions about how to make it consumable, please ask on the metrics-team@ list
19:25:21 <gaba> ok. sounds fair
19:25:58 <gaba> rotationmatrix: are you ok sending a mail to metrics-team@ ?
19:26:01 <gaba> about the queries
19:26:06 <rotationmatrix> sure I can do that
19:26:09 <gaba> thanks!
19:26:15 <irl> awesome, thanks for your work on this!
19:26:22 <gaba> i'm going to end the meeting now if there is nothing else
19:26:25 <rotationmatrix> np! :)
19:26:37 <gaba> #endmeeting