14:03:21 <hiro> #startmeeting
14:03:21 <MeetBot> Meeting started Thu Jan 16 14:03:21 2020 UTC.  The chair is hiro. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:03:21 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
14:03:33 <hiro> ok
14:04:02 <hiro> let's start with the first topic
14:04:07 <hiro> #topic discourse.org
14:05:08 <hiro> ok this is part of the idea of migrating the blog to lektor
14:05:48 <hiro> I wrote discourse.org because they offer free hosting for opensource projects
14:06:27 <hiro> and the founder got back to us saying they really much like tor and they are happy to give us like 1-2M page views and a .onion
14:06:38 <hiro> ^ page views per month
14:07:03 <hiro> so this could sort out our comments issue w the blog that could be hosted statically instead of with drupal
14:07:03 <antonela> niiiiice
14:07:28 <antonela> discourse will also be friendly for dealing with moderation and so on
14:07:51 <hiro> yes!
14:08:02 <antonela> can you import old comments? or lets say we start today with discourse and that is it
14:08:12 <hiro> o/ c1e0
14:08:22 <antonela> and do you want to install it in the drupal instance? or wait until the next blog migration happen?
14:08:23 <c1e0> Hi!
14:08:55 <hiro> I am not sure we want to import old comments... but the idea is to get rid of drupal completely
14:09:08 <hiro> we use discourse if the blog is static
14:09:58 <hiro> but at the moment we are paying a lot for the blog and we also have 2 cache services not to pay even more
14:10:35 <hiro> so if we move the blgo to static + comments w/ discourse we save approx 400/500$ per month
14:11:08 <antonela> i think is good stuff, i bet we need other(s) approval to make this move, but i dont think there is a complain on providing a better comments manager
14:11:17 <ggus> we could also self-host the drupal and so we won't have migrations issues
14:11:42 <antonela> selfhost the drupal will also need sysadmin capacity
14:11:51 <hiro> the sysadmin team doesn't want to self host the drupal
14:11:54 <ggus> same apply for lektor
14:12:02 * antonela you have the cons and the pros, like all in life
14:12:20 <hiro> lektor doesn't need to be hosted
14:12:29 <ggus> but do we have a budget from other drupal companies?
14:12:32 <hiro> once the posts are migrated that's it
14:12:59 <hiro> yep
14:13:17 <hiro> prices are more or less the same because we have a lot of page views
14:13:36 <hiro> 1.5M approx per month
14:13:39 <pili> how do the page views on the blog compare to page views on other lektor sites?
14:14:09 <hiro> I don't know the number but the blog is our most popular website
14:14:29 <hiro> in any case drupal is a web app... and lektor is just a framework to generate static pages
14:14:39 <hiro> so the website generated with lektor go to the www rotation
14:14:55 <pili> ok
14:15:36 <pili> we also have the analysis of features we would want from a new blogging platform from stockholm meeting
14:16:02 <pili> I'm on board with the idea and we need to get others like stephw comfortable with it also
14:16:19 <hiro> yes
14:17:03 <hiro> the point is that to maintain the blog we aren't getting other things because of budget
14:17:28 <hiro> also we don't have more than a post published per week
14:17:44 <hiro> so that doesn't really justify having a web app to manage the blgo
14:17:51 <hiro> at least IMO
14:18:09 <pili> https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/org/meetings/2019Stockholm/Notes/Blog <- blog notes
14:18:45 <hiro> #link https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/org/meetings/2019Stockholm/Notes/Blog
14:19:18 <pili> hiro: let's put this project on the roadmap for 2020 and scope it out
14:19:32 <hiro> yep
14:19:35 <pili> we can write a PRD for it
14:19:38 <hiro> PRD?
14:19:48 <pili> Product requirements document
14:19:58 <pili> antonela and I were playing with it in the past
14:20:01 <hiro> ok
14:20:10 <pili> I think it's a good way to start this project
14:20:45 <pili> and share it with others, e.g vegas to help decide the scope and possibly if we need "someone" to say yay/nay to it
14:21:37 <hiro> yeah people need to be happy with the static blog and discourse for comments
14:22:44 <hiro> anyways
14:22:48 <hiro> next topic
14:22:52 <antonela> si
14:22:53 <hiro> #topic roadmap
14:23:05 <antonela> which is related with previous one :)
14:23:11 <hiro> ok I have listed on the pad what I think I can fit here
14:23:26 <antonela> i think the search function in any portal but for realz in support is prior
14:23:51 <hiro> I know but I am not sure we are going to have resources to do that
14:23:53 <hiro> as in VM
14:24:18 <antonela> if we agree that is a prior, can we have some support from the sysadmin team to release it?
14:24:37 <hiro> there are capacity and budget issues at the moment that we need to resolve
14:24:42 <antonela> right
14:24:52 <kushal> hiro, This is good news.
14:24:57 <hiro> and overall stability takes priority over developing a new service
14:25:06 <antonela> true
14:25:32 <hiro> so let's see how things go
14:25:48 <hiro> if I have a VM I will try to make search happen
14:25:54 <hiro> but I am not sure atm
14:26:01 <antonela> what do you see as a prior for www hiro?
14:26:16 <ggus> this roadmap is organised based on priorities or is just a list?
14:26:17 <hiro> donate and blog are my priorities honestly
14:26:39 <hiro> the donate.tp.o page will be moved to lektor
14:26:52 <hiro> so that we will be less dependant on giant rabbit for small updates to the page
14:27:07 <hiro> this will save us time and money
14:27:39 <hiro> but I'd like to hear also what other people might need?
14:27:39 <pili> fair enough :)
14:27:50 <pili> I would say developer portal after that
14:28:01 <antonela> is this something discussed with fundraising too?
14:28:06 <antonela> re: donate.tpo ^
14:28:33 <hiro> antonela: yes, me and sstevenson had a few conversation with giant rabbit and have evaluated other options too
14:28:39 <pili> there's a few people and documentation waiting on it but it's not really urgent in the sense that it will save us time and/or money thoguh
14:28:46 <antonela> hiro: great, nice
14:28:47 <pili> I can own that once the skeleton is there
14:29:24 <hiro> pili the skeleton is there already... putting that on stating after this meeting
14:29:30 <hiro> s/stating/staging
14:29:37 <pili> ah, perfect, thank you! :)
14:30:01 <hiro> maybe we can add www metrics?
14:30:22 <hiro> same as search though... depending on resources
14:30:25 <antonela> i think the roadmap looks good - somethings to include: stability (what is going on with with old builds and that), metrics and portals mantainance
14:30:34 <antonela> right
14:30:52 <hiro> what do you mean with the old builds?
14:31:01 <hiro> like the building process on jenkins?
14:31:06 <antonela> yes that
14:31:21 <hiro> yes that should be explicilty added
14:32:08 <antonela> and i feel we should upgrade www needs to the sysadmin team so you have more hands to jump for help when is needed
14:32:13 <antonela> and is not just hiro doing all the things
14:32:31 <antonela> (what do you think?)
14:32:33 <hiro> the sysadmin team is just me and anarcat
14:32:57 <antonela> right, so there are 4 hands now :)
14:33:20 <pili> I want
14:33:22 <pili> sorry
14:33:38 <pili> I want more ownership over content spread throughout all teams at Tor
14:33:47 <hiro> I think people that are able to use git can jump on the website
14:33:54 <pili> I think we're slowly getting there
14:33:59 <hiro> it's quite easy to update honestly
14:34:03 <pili> I agree
14:34:22 <hiro> I merged stuff from bakeela two days ago
14:34:30 <hiro> and she isn't using git.. but dip
14:34:33 <hiro> so that helps us too
14:34:39 <pili> so we need to encourage more people to do things themselves
14:34:40 <pili> then www meta team does reviews
14:34:41 <pili> and pushes
14:34:42 <pili> yeah!
14:34:49 <pili> I need to do another session for al and erin also
14:34:58 <hiro> also I have a gui tool for lektor almost ready that could help
14:35:08 <pili> or edit the screengrab I did of the last session and share with others
14:36:04 <hiro> edit the screngrap?
14:36:18 <hiro> ahh like a video tutorial
14:36:33 <antonela> when im talking about sysadmin help is more about infra stuff - yes, we all can do frontend / content edit / and whatever  -- but yes, having dip is useful, agreed
14:36:50 <emmapeel> weasel has been helping with jenkins
14:37:01 <antonela> right
14:37:02 <hiro> yes weasel has helped with that
14:37:06 <emmapeel> maybe we could ask him to look on that
14:37:24 <emmapeel> i can ask him
14:37:31 <hiro> sounds good
14:38:02 <hiro> ok so next topic?
14:38:26 <hiro> #topic GSOC
14:38:45 <hiro> ok so in another meeting it was discussed to propose projects for GSOC
14:39:12 <hiro> I think GSOC is a bit special and they look at projects that are a bit more exciting than "we would need help with lektor plugin dev"
14:39:43 <hiro> so maybe we could come up with a proposal around privacy friendly web development patterns
14:39:51 <hiro> and review with that our styleguide
14:40:10 <hiro> what d you think?
14:40:13 <hiro> antonela?
14:40:30 <antonela> i like it
14:40:43 <antonela> we can mentor together on that one
14:40:55 <hiro> yep
14:41:00 <pili> I like it !
14:41:28 <pili> so hiro and antonela you'll work together on that one?
14:41:44 <pili> as in, write up the project idea?
14:41:54 <pili> I can help also if you need
14:41:59 <hiro> yes I think we can come up with a proposal... I think some stuff we wrote already for IFF last year
14:42:04 <pili> great
14:42:47 <hiro> w reg to your question pili I don't know where we can put ideas
14:42:56 <pili> right
14:43:17 <pili> so my suggestions would be a) somewhere on tpo.org  (but I'm not sure I like this)
14:43:20 <pili> b) on trac
14:43:25 <pili> c) on the dev portal :P
14:43:43 <pili> does anyone have any other ideas?
14:43:54 <hiro> community?
14:44:23 <ggus> from community we are thinking about relay gamification
14:44:40 <pili> ideally I'd put it on dev, but it's not there yet
14:44:41 <pili> community could be a good back up
14:45:29 <hiro> ok I'll leave this with you to think about pili?
14:45:44 <hiro> we have a few other topics and only 15 mintues to go
14:45:45 <pili> one last questions, anywhere I _shouldn't_ put it? :P
14:46:07 <pili> and yes, you can leave it with me
14:46:22 <hiro> topic #outreachy
14:46:25 <hiro> ops
14:46:29 <hiro> #topic outreachy
14:46:39 <hiro> yes it would be nice to get help
14:46:40 <pili> and we can move on :)
14:47:06 <pili> ok, I'll add it to the list of teams we could get someone for
14:47:09 <hiro> what does I have to do to get someone ot help?
14:47:19 <pili> and let's think about writing a project description
14:47:21 <hiro> s/does/do
14:47:26 <hiro> oook!
14:47:35 <pili> we may even have something from before already
14:47:43 <hiro> nice
14:48:14 <hiro> oook!
14:48:17 <hiro> #topic download page
14:48:32 <hiro> I think antonela is ready to merge this
14:48:52 <antonela> yes, i'll do that next week
14:49:02 <antonela> if you have any question, suggestion, whatever please ping me
14:50:24 <hiro> yay!
14:50:44 * anarcat waves
14:50:52 <hiro> how did it go with the user research on the new download page?
14:51:10 <hiro> did people liket it?
14:52:20 <antonela> we have reports on that, nah is clearing personal information to make them public :)
14:52:27 <hiro> ah nice!
14:52:42 <hiro> ook! last topic
14:52:53 <hiro> #topic edri ethical web dev guide
14:53:03 <hiro> that was cool and tor was mentioned yes we should share
14:54:17 <hiro> ok I don't have other tpics
14:54:30 <hiro> except actually the glossary
14:54:34 <hiro> #topic glossary
14:54:36 <hiro> that's on develop
14:54:46 <hiro> if you ggus and emmapeel want to review that
14:54:49 <hiro> it's a first iteration
14:55:12 <emmapeel> yeah sure, how are we supposed to give back feedback?
14:55:21 <hiro> on the dip issue
14:55:24 <emmapeel> ok
14:56:01 <hiro> I am going to end the meeting
14:56:12 <hiro> is everyone groot?
14:56:47 <emmapeel> yep
14:56:50 <antonela> i added the metrics topic, but we can talk about it next week!
14:57:00 <antonela> is groot
14:57:07 <hiro> ah sorry I thought that was already in the roadmap
14:57:36 * anarcat is groot
14:57:45 <hiro> ok all groot
14:57:49 <hiro> #endmeeting