14:00:53 <hiro> #startmeeting
14:00:53 <MeetBot> Meeting started Thu Nov 14 14:00:53 2019 UTC.  The chair is hiro. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:00:53 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
14:01:05 <hiro> I have been filling this pad https://pad.riseup.net/p/tor-www-weekly-keep
14:01:18 <hiro> it has my updates for the week and a tentative agenda
14:01:29 <emmapeel> o/
14:01:38 <hiro> if you want you can add your updates and let everyone know what issues you have and how others can help
14:02:02 <pili> hi
14:02:04 <pili> sorry I'm late
14:02:51 <hiro> ok giving everyone time to fill up the pad
14:05:45 <hiro> ok so reading everyone updates, emmapeel who can help you with your needs help item?
14:06:10 <hiro> is that content that needs to be added?
14:06:38 <emmapeel> this is a call in general, we had so many updates and i need help reviewing and translating, specially on our already published langs, i.e. german, Italian, Spanish, pt-BR... lots of new content on the websites
14:06:56 <hiro> ook! but that is something you will do?
14:07:00 <emmapeel> support.tpo and the manual have lots of content
14:07:18 <hiro> because the idea of the needs help is like for example the item from gus, I need to go in the blog and do that and it's a stopper for him
14:07:59 <emmapeel> yeah not like that
14:08:06 <emmapeel> sorry
14:08:24 <hiro> ah no worries!
14:08:27 <hiro> moving on
14:08:55 <hiro> I think last week we briefly talked about review/merge policy or something of the like that isn't a stopper
14:09:09 <hiro> I think people that can merge need to be trusted with their judgment to merge stuff
14:09:32 <hiro> and like everyone makes mistakes and it isn't a big deal, like emmapeel just told me I had merged stuff from develop that wasn't supposed to be merged
14:09:55 <hiro> so that's the first point. if you feel confident just merge something
14:10:38 <hiro> second point is about how we use our git flow. this needs to be well documented but my idea was that: 1. master is production 2. develop is stuff that can be merged 3. staging is experimenting and testing and a way for people to check content
14:10:59 <hiro> now 4. emmapeel wants a translation branch so that localization stuff doesn't pollute staging
14:11:27 <emmapeel> yes, it is for the languages that are still not published on production
14:11:31 <hiro> ok
14:11:40 <emmapeel> so, they may be a lot of them
14:11:57 <hiro> and the last part of this is that we could use tag to allow people to help us when we aren't sure about merging something
14:12:24 <pili> ok
14:12:28 <hiro> or we can just invite someone over an issue and ask the person to review
14:12:35 <hiro> how does that work for everyone?
14:12:56 <ggus> wfm!
14:13:12 <emmapeel> wfm2!
14:13:16 <hiro> so this way no one is waiting for somebody else to review and the other didn't know
14:13:36 <emmapeel> yeah i tend to @mention people in tickets
14:13:47 <hiro> yes I get the mentions, that's good!
14:13:48 <emmapeel> when i feel i need their input for a merge
14:14:11 <emmapeel> and when i am not sure about something i submit a PR, i dont merge
14:14:38 <emmapeel> i feel it is important that we only merge finished things. if they are not finished we can work them out in a branch, like staging
14:14:44 <hiro> yes
14:14:53 <hiro> also let's get this abit to first merge on develop
14:15:04 <hiro> I always merge to master and we shouldn't do it
14:15:34 <hiro> ok moving on?
14:15:35 <emmapeel> i have done that in staging but because it was a mess :D
14:15:44 <hiro> staging can be messy
14:15:51 <hiro> that's what it is for
14:16:22 <hiro> ok dev portal... we chatted a bit with pili and decided that nothing will happen on the dev portal for november
14:16:39 <hiro> then the plan is to put up the structure and reach out to teams to add content and see if people want to change something
14:17:17 <pili> yup
14:17:31 <hiro> ok moving on?
14:17:36 <hiro> Localization issues
14:17:57 <hiro> ok we add a few links that weren't getting localized
14:18:02 <hiro> I have started to fix those
14:18:06 <hiro> but more remain
14:18:29 <hiro> I think this is an action item for me to check
14:18:46 <hiro> what I wanted to clarify instead are stuff like the link in the footer: blog, jobs, contacts and press
14:18:53 <hiro> these links weren't supposed to be localized
14:18:57 <emmapeel> i will try and do a more thorough check for links, but as it is the navigation and that... i am not sure
14:19:04 <emmapeel> i am not sure i will find more
14:19:28 <emmapeel> hiro: i dont understand when you say a link is not supposed to be localized
14:19:43 <hiro> I think the idea was that those pages are not translated
14:19:44 <emmapeel> because i see it from a user experience
14:20:13 <hiro> the blog is only in english, the jobs page same, press and contacts same
14:20:22 <pili> hiro: +1
14:20:27 <pili> although contacts could potentially be
14:20:48 <hiro> I think we should review what is being translated ... I think emmapeel is translating some of this content but not all of it
14:21:13 <emmapeel> for example you are on the georgian website, you click on the jobs link, you should go to https://www.torproject.org/ka/about/jobs/ and not https://www.torproject.org/about/jobs/
14:21:24 <pili> I guess we don't want to create a false expectation in users that they will find localised content in those pages, hence why we're not translating the links
14:21:33 <hiro> yes that was the idea
14:21:36 <emmapeel> but the jobs page is not only in englihs. it is part of tpo and it is translated
14:21:49 <emmapeel> i mean, themenu, the links, everything is translated
14:22:00 <emmapeel> only the job position announcements are not translated
14:22:08 <emmapeel> but there is an interface on the language
14:22:09 <pili> hmm
14:22:45 <emmapeel> georgian users prefer https://www.torproject.org/ka/about/jobs/ and not https://www.torproject.org/about/jobs/
14:22:46 <hiro> I don't know about this honestly... I think we should ask Antonela, because I think there is an expectation that if the url is localized so is the content
14:22:55 <hiro> as pili said before too
14:23:28 <ggus> i agree with hiro
14:24:09 <emmapeel> but they will find localized content on this pages. there is a very minimal amount of content that is not localized
14:24:10 <hiro> personally I will localize those links if you think I should
14:24:33 <hiro> I mean collective you (pili, ggus, emmapeel, antonela, ... )
14:25:19 <pili> I don't really mind, I understand it looks strange to localise some parts and not others
14:25:22 <emmapeel> is like the sponsors page, we dont translate the description of the sponsor, but the page is translated, the interface, the links point to a language relevant to the user, the user can browse to other content in their language that is translated... i dont think we should take the user out of their locale
14:25:52 <pili> this seems like a ux issue :)
14:26:01 <emmapeel> to be clear, we are talking about changing these links when a user is already browsing on a locale
14:26:03 <pili> not to push the problem elsewhere... :P
14:26:12 <pili> I would just like to know what antonela thinks
14:26:27 <pili> and it would be good if we have examples of what other people do in this case
14:26:50 <hiro> I kind of understand both rationales in this case... I understands what emmapeel is saying about not taking the user out of the locale
14:27:07 <hiro> and at the same time I kinda think it's strange that you have something in a locale that isn't traduced
14:27:11 <hiro> so I don't know
14:27:12 <pili> e.g firefox https://www.mozilla.org/el/firefox/new/?redirect_source=firefox-com
14:27:39 <pili> for example, Press is not localised
14:27:44 <hiro> yeah the links aren't localised
14:28:09 <hiro> I remember discussing that with antonela when the pages were designed
14:28:26 <pili> and If I click there it takes me to the blog
14:28:27 <pili> which is not localised either
14:28:28 <pili> but it's a different subdomain so maybe it's not the same situation
14:28:43 <emmapeel> yeah, the blog is not localized
14:28:50 <hiro> for example if you click to benefits on the footer ?
14:29:04 <hiro> the link takes you to the us version
14:29:30 <hiro> but it's a localized link...
14:29:43 <emmapeel> benefits?
14:29:47 <pili> lockwise in the footer is an interesting example also, it seems to be a localized link but then takes you to the en-us page...
14:29:59 <pili> e.g https://www.mozilla.org/el/firefox/lockwise/
14:30:26 <pili> anyway
14:30:27 <pili> we don't have to follow mozilla in everything
14:30:30 <pili> I was just curious how they deal with it
14:30:33 <emmapeel> ah i see now
14:30:34 <pili> and it seems they do it imperfectly like us "D
14:30:36 <pili> :D
14:30:49 <emmapeel> i think they add the localized link at a phase
14:30:49 <hiro> ok so let's ask this to Antonela when she is back from vacas
14:30:55 <hiro> shall we?
14:31:02 <emmapeel> and then meanwhile they add a redirect to the english page when tere is no translation
14:31:11 <emmapeel> ok
14:31:31 <hiro> ok the last item in localization is having a language selector on donate.tp.o
14:31:32 <pili> +1 for double checking with anto when she's back
14:31:55 <emmapeel> what aout the RTL LTR?
14:31:56 <hiro> I think this is needed as when people reach donate.torproject.org they have no way to know there might be a localized version
14:32:14 <hiro> sorry I was putting that in stuff that I have to fix for templating and css
14:32:43 <hiro> it's not that I didn't want to talk about it, it's that I need to work on it! :D
14:33:06 <hiro> but that's totally an issue thanks for putting that on the agenda
14:33:44 <emmapeel> ah yeah. that would be great to do, we already have some languages published like this and for Arabic speakers it looks quite bad
14:33:49 <emmapeel> but lets move on
14:34:42 <hiro> ok the next items are for gitlab-ci
14:34:55 <emmapeel> regarding the menu selector, i asked for it when i first reviewed the interface. i gave my usual argument of the users of tor browser not giving their language preferences etc
14:35:10 <hiro> I am going to talk to Sarah about it
14:35:13 <hiro> I think we need
14:35:18 <hiro> and see if giantrabbit can add it
14:35:23 <emmapeel> yeah me too. full  support on that
14:36:18 <emmapeel> yes, regarding gitlab-ci, i think it is part of solution that will help to deal with the chaos of the merges this past days
14:36:27 <hiro> it's not coming that soon tho
14:36:42 <hiro> so there isn't much we can do about it atm
14:36:49 <emmapeel> we have many kinds of contributors and not all of them are building the website before submitting a pr, or in some cases even making a merge
14:36:55 <hiro> the only thing I can do is document a setup to have the build run with travis on github
14:37:12 <hiro> it's suboptimal
14:37:15 <emmapeel> so it would be nice if there is some tests in place so we can be more sure, especially 'newbie'contributors
14:37:26 <hiro> but it's the only thing I can do right away
14:38:05 <emmapeel> well, not sure about suboptimal but will that help people that is not very techie to verify their own PRs for example?
14:38:55 <hiro> if the setup is in the repository they will just have to signup for travis
14:39:02 <hiro> or github ci I haven't checked how that works
14:39:27 <hiro> I am also fixing the lektor desktop app, so that might help new contributors too
14:39:36 <hiro> and encourage people to run it locally
14:39:39 <hiro> before pushing
14:39:43 <emmapeel> great!
14:40:05 <hiro> I think anyway that if people are techie enough to send a PR on git they can follow the instructions to setup travis
14:40:12 <hiro> but yes having all those tools can help
14:40:20 <ggus> in the last months we have an unusual contributions to the website (docshackathon, outreachy), i don't think we're always going to have that flow of new people
14:40:27 <ggus> we had*
14:41:02 <hiro> yes but the websites might also be a good way for people to volunteer to tor
14:41:33 <hiro> since we have a lower barrier to start contributing than other projects in tor
14:41:59 <emmapeel> from my POV, we need help with the websites, and the more we lower the bar for contributions, the better our websites will be.
14:42:38 <hiro> yes agred
14:43:01 <hiro> ok the last two points are the jenkins failures and the tag for tor browser relases and I didn't have time to look into any of these from last week
14:43:30 <hiro> so if you have any other thing that you'd like to discuss this is the time to bring it on
14:43:37 <ggus> if it's a lot of effort to 'lower the barrier', we should measure how many new people we're expecting to attract. or it might not worth giving the priority on this now
14:44:20 <hiro> +1
14:44:32 <emmapeel> i think that is part of the whole 'lowering the barrier' process
14:44:43 <pili> well, we need to lower the barrier for some internal contributors also :)
14:44:54 <hiro> yes I prefer to have the lektor desktop app working for tor people that do not know git
14:44:59 <hiro> so that can be transparent to them
14:45:04 <emmapeel> for example the gitlab-ci, will help contributors to give a better quality of contribution
14:45:05 <hiro> and lektor can be just like any other cms
14:45:22 <hiro> emmapeel gitlab-ci isn't something that I can make happen tomorrow
14:45:37 <emmapeel> without gitlab-ci, contributors submit pull requests without knowing they break the build.
14:46:30 <hiro> sure.
14:46:53 <hiro> ok we are 10 minutes early if we don't have any other issue we can finish early
14:48:23 <hiro> ok all good? I'll kill the bot
14:48:26 <pili> I'm good
14:48:27 <hiro> #endmeeting