14:02:18 <pili> #startmeeting ux team
14:02:18 <MeetBot> Meeting started Tue Nov  5 14:02:18 2019 UTC.  The chair is pili. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:02:18 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
14:02:24 <pili> here's the pad: https://pad.riseup.net/p/tor-ux-team-2019-keep
14:02:29 <pili> please add your updates :)
14:02:39 <pili> welcome diogosergio
14:02:52 <pili> we're going to do a triage of existing ux-team tickets today
14:03:03 <pili> or at least try without antonela :)
14:03:14 <pili> so hopefully we'll find something for you there...
14:03:27 <pili> who else is around today? :)
14:03:33 <emmapeel> o/
14:04:15 <diogosergio> sounds good
14:04:16 <pili> hi emmapeel and thurayya
14:04:24 <thurayya> hello! :)
14:05:23 <pili> I'll give people a few more minutes...
14:05:36 <thurayya> diogosergio: i work with some user research topics. what are you most interested in working on? ux/ui/research?
14:06:26 <diogosergio> I'm mostly ux/ui, but if necessary can help with research.
14:06:55 <pili> ok, I think we can get started
14:07:20 <pili> does anyone have any discussion topics before we dive into the triage?
14:07:49 <thurayya> i don't have
14:08:22 <pili> ok, let me get the link with the tickets then
14:09:12 <pili> https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/query?status=accepted&status=assigned&status=merge_ready&status=needs_information&status=needs_review&status=needs_revision&status=new&status=reopened&keywords=~ux-team&max=0&col=id&col=summary&col=status&col=owner&col=time&col=reporter&desc=1&order=id
14:09:36 <pili> we can probably just look at the ones created in the last 8 weeks
14:10:16 <pili> starting from the top: #32330
14:10:57 <pili> seems like no work there for now, but just something to keep in mind for future, e.g if we implement ETP from Firefox
14:11:12 <pili> #32325
14:11:31 * emmapeel loves letterboxing!
14:11:45 <pili> this is an interesting one, we implemented letterboxing with TB9.0 and we got quite a few tickets since people were confused about it and thought it was a bug
14:12:57 <emmapeel> yeah confused users, that is true. but it is a nice fingerprinting defense mechanism that allows me to do fullscreen
14:12:58 <pili> I'm not sure what antonela's plans are for this one in particular,  it's not a small one for diogosergio though... :)
14:13:47 <pili> the next ticket is also related to this: 	#32324
14:14:06 <diogosergio> Yeah, I'm still trying to wrap my ahead around what we can do to surface uis on the browser.
14:14:25 <pili> diogosergio no worries and no pressure :)
14:14:47 <pili> antonela could explain more to you about this than me, I'm just the project manager ;)
14:15:14 <pili> I guess we leave these last two in the backlog for now also
14:15:17 <pili> #32228
14:15:57 <thurayya> about the #32324 the idea is to create a flow that explains letterboxing to users? or article? something?
14:16:16 <pili> thurayya: I was envisioning an onboarding
14:16:17 <pili> section in the onboarding that is
14:16:42 <pili> or an educational moment possibly also? Maybe that's what you mean by flow :)
14:16:49 <thurayya> yes hehe
14:17:02 <pili> we should probably add a section on this to the Tor Browser manual if it's not already there
14:17:03 <thurayya> cool! i like this one, gonna have a look on it this week then
14:18:56 <pili> we have this: https://support.torproject.org/tbb/#maximized-torbrowser-window
14:19:01 <pili> in support
14:19:09 <pili> that's probably enough for now
14:19:24 <pili> thanks thurayya ! :)
14:19:37 <pili> so about the bookmark one, that's one from ggus
14:19:45 <pili> not sure how easy/difficult that would be to do
14:20:12 <thurayya> this link didn't work for me, pili
14:20:16 <pili> if we had an example for other sites it sounds like an easy fix
14:20:51 <pili> hmm, strange :/
14:21:31 <pili> go to https://support.torproject.org/tbb/ and scroll down to or search for "What are grey bars on resized Tor Browser window? "
14:21:40 <thurayya> i think the anchors aren't working very well in the support page
14:21:47 <pili> yeah...
14:22:36 <thurayya> ok, thanks!
14:22:44 <pili> for #32228 I can bring it to the tor browser team meeting
14:23:25 <pili> #32220 - another letterboxing one
14:23:36 <pili> that one is already in progress, nothing to do here
14:24:17 <pili> moving on to #32119
14:25:21 <pili> diogosergio: I wonder if this is a good one for you to review and suggest improvements?
14:25:34 <diogosergio> I went through that flow recently and I had the same issue.
14:25:41 <diogosergio> So I can probably look into this one.
14:25:50 <pili> either that or #32118
14:26:18 <pili> thanks diogosergio ! :)
14:26:46 <pili> then there's #32006
14:26:48 <diogosergio> I'll look into these two, since they are connected.
14:26:59 <pili> that's great
14:27:20 <pili> so for the last one I'm not sure what is needed here from ux... maybe localization if there are new strings added?
14:27:23 <pili> what do you think emmapeel ?
14:27:24 <thurayya> i'm going to add somethings antonela, duncan and I are talking about on #32118. but it's a long process. probably a volunteer will run a research on new identity in the following days, so we'll get more insights
14:27:51 <GeKo> pili: for the bookmarks, sounds good.
14:28:02 <GeKo> can i haz a patch, pleaz? ;)
14:28:16 <pili> thurayya: that sounds great :) maybe it would be helpful to put some details so others can follow the discussion?
14:28:33 <pili> GeKo: I could probably do a patch if I knew where the file is :D (if it exists, that is...)
14:28:46 <pili> I'll speak to ggus about this though, see if he knows more about it
14:28:51 <GeKo> i can help you with *that* :-D
14:28:58 <pili> please do :)
14:29:18 <emmapeel> pili: i guess the string are going to end up in the other resource files, so the updated tbb will have the new strings.
14:29:40 <pili> could even be a good easy first bug for someone that's looking to start contributing
14:30:47 <pili> acat do you have any more details about what is needed from ux side for #32006 ?
14:31:18 <pili> and while we wait, let's look at #31776
14:31:47 <pili> which is actually not going to happen until next year
14:32:16 <pili> other tickets on the list should have been triaged in previous months already but I'll take a quick look to double check...
14:34:20 <acat> for #32006 we need localized version of the tooltip: "New Identity (%s)", where %s would be replaced by the key shortcut (e.g. Ctrl+Shift+U).
14:34:58 <pili> ah ok
14:35:01 <pili> thanks for that acat
14:35:23 <pili> so I guess it's just a case of pinging emmapeel once that's done
14:35:53 <emmapeel> i think the updating of the translation file is automatic and i dont need to do anythign, as i just explained
14:36:19 <pili> sure
14:36:31 <pili> and speaking of localization, can we close #30915 ?
14:37:56 <emmapeel> good for me. maybe we could do some post mortem on how to make it easier to localize and prevent spam.
14:38:53 <emmapeel> because we generated a lot of information at the start of the process but that information then was not actionable and it didnt lead to the banner ot be translated earlier.(i.e. the strings were differnet than we said, also the banner was not translatable because the template was not taking localization into account...
14:38:54 <pili> emmapeel: that's a good idea. what would be the best audience for this sort of post mortem?
14:39:27 <emmapeel> the people involved in the process?
14:39:39 <pili> so, comms? fundraising?
14:40:00 <emmapeel> and the web devs
14:40:17 <pili> browser team
14:40:18 <pili> yup
14:40:19 <pili> out of interest, which is the template in question?
14:40:40 <pili> because there are still some gaps in my knowledge and I'd like to understand better for next time :)
14:40:51 <pili> even though I'm sure we'll have other issues next time... :/
14:41:15 <emmapeel> https://dip.torproject.org/torproject/web/lego/blob/master/templates/banner.html
14:42:03 <emmapeel> pili: as long as is not always the same issues...
14:42:16 <pili> that's the idea! :)
14:42:29 <pili> I see
14:42:42 <pili> e.g some strings are in upper case
14:43:37 <pili> are there some guidelines somewhere about creating strings for localization? e.g things that I may take for granted that actually make a huge difference when localising content
14:43:48 <emmapeel> the fiel was https://dip.torproject.org/torproject/web/lego/blob/1ade3bbac5071fa061a1290cda4acad8ae3b6f1d/templates/banner.html before
14:44:16 <pili> for example, I wouldn't have realised off the top of my head that capitalization mattered
14:44:35 <emmapeel> pili: yes there are, i added some information to the docs in trac but then the docs were rewritten in dip and i dont know if that information passed from one side ot the other tbh
14:45:12 <emmapeel> pili: i said several times that i need the exact same string with punctuation and everything
14:45:20 <pili> I know :(
14:45:35 <emmapeel> i think the problem is also that we passed to olate to the code. we should have worked based on the code from the start
14:45:48 <emmapeel> have a branch with the real strings there
14:46:16 <pili> yup
14:46:35 <pili> I guess a lesson to learn there is that trying to do things early to save work later doesn't always work
14:46:48 <emmapeel> the lektor localization support is very bad. i already documented how to do the things but nobody cares... the templates are not automatically translated, you need to enclose them in {{ _('
14:47:01 <pili> e.g it would have been better to wait for the code before sending for translation
14:47:14 <emmapeel> pili: it depends on what you do. for sure, the ticket totally empty about hte localization, without any information except a fake deadline... it does not work
14:47:41 <pili> emmapeel: I don't think people don't care, I truly think people forget because they're not doing this every day
14:47:50 <emmapeel> i sent string to translate that later were not used... translators translated the same strings wqith different variations twice
14:48:42 <emmapeel> i dont know. maybe we should fix lektor
14:48:49 <emmapeel> there is actually a ticket for that
14:48:54 <pili> ok
14:49:09 <pili> so I'm seeing the following improvements for next time:
14:49:24 <emmapeel> i think we should do the banner on the code and not in random mockups and rtf documents
14:49:29 <pili> 1. don't send strings for localisation until we have the actual banner ready
14:49:41 <emmapeel> and please when you do templates you need to enclose the strings on  {{ _('
14:49:42 <pili> 2. have the banner ready at least 2 weeks before launch to allow time for localization
14:50:17 <pili> 3. Freeze the strings before we start work on the banner, e.g 3 weeks before we want to launch
14:50:34 <pili> so that gives us 1 week for coding the banner with the strings and 2 weeks for localization
14:50:41 <emmapeel> ah no, there is no ticket for templates. i confused it with https://github.com/numericube/lektor-i18n-plugin/issues/11
14:51:06 <emmapeel> yes. also: i got the strings at the same time that we published the banner
14:51:18 <pili> about the templates... we just really need to remember that we need to enclose the strings in the right tags so that they can be localized
14:51:44 <pili> emmapeel: anything else that I'm missing for next time?
14:52:22 <emmapeel> prepare the code in a real branch. dont wait until last minute to put it in real code
14:52:22 <pili> I guess 4. would be to have the design for the banner ready at the same time as the strings
14:53:01 <pili> emmapeel: yeah, that last one would be point 2.
14:53:09 <pili> it's good to elaborate on it though
14:53:46 <pili> ok
14:53:51 <pili> anything else on this?
14:53:54 <pili> or other topics?
14:54:17 <pili> we have about 5 minutes left
14:54:41 <emmapeel> regarding the merging of contributions that break the build, hiro says something about having runners for lektor?
14:55:02 <emmapeel> i.e. will it be possible to know if a change breaks the build before actually merging it?
14:55:35 <pili> emmapeel: that would be amazing :D
14:55:48 <pili> that's more a topic for the websites meeting though I think
14:55:51 <pili> ok
14:56:12 <emmapeel> ok
14:56:32 <clash> like ci?
14:57:09 <pili> clash: yes, I guess so
14:57:20 <pili> ok, I think we are done for today :)
14:57:30 <diogosergio> Quick question
14:57:37 <pili> diogosergio: go for it :)
14:58:04 <diogosergio> Do I need to anything to with the #32119 ticket? Is it assigned?
14:58:52 <emmapeel> yes, gitlab'ci
15:00:30 <pili> diogosergio: afaik it's not assigned to anyone yet
15:00:35 <thurayya> diogosergio: you can create an account on trac
15:00:36 <pili> antonela would know more
15:00:52 <pili> and yes, as thurayya says, you can create an account on trac and add any comments to the ticket
15:00:55 <clash> ci's are nice :)
15:01:48 <pili> I'll close the bot now and we can continue the conversation on #tor-ux :)
15:01:51 <pili> #endmeeting