18:02:24 <pili> #startmeeting tor-browser-release 08/28
18:02:24 <MeetBot> Meeting started Wed Aug 28 18:02:24 2019 UTC.  The chair is pili. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
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18:02:42 <pili> ok, I'm here :)
18:02:51 <pili> I hope everyone is well
18:03:17 <pili> it's been a while since we've had one of these ;)
18:03:25 <pili> please add any discussion points, requests, etc.. to the pad
18:04:10 <pili> and any releases/release dates I may not be aware of
18:04:19 <ggus> hey
18:05:16 <pili> so, next release is going to happen next week
18:06:11 <sstevenson> it would be helpful to know the release dates through the end of the year as well as code freeze dates for each for YE planning
18:07:01 <sysrqb> these are the upcoming Mozilla release dates
18:07:04 <sysrqb> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Release_Management/Calendar
18:07:35 <sysrqb> so, three more planned releases before the end of the year
18:07:48 <pili> yup
18:07:51 <GeKo> code freeze is usually a week before
18:07:56 <pili> they're on the pad also, apart from the last one
18:07:58 <pili> let me add it in
18:08:20 <GeKo> but string freeze should probably be earlier even
18:08:25 <sstevenson> thanks!
18:09:26 <pili> GeKo: yup, I think usually 2 weeks before
18:09:33 <pili> is what I seem to remember from emmapeel
18:10:34 <pili> are there any new features for 9.0 stable that we will want documented in the tor browser manual?
18:10:56 <pili> or any significant changes that will happen that will need documenting?
18:11:16 <GeKo> the new ui for bridges configuration in the browser
18:11:35 <GeKo> a new toolbar button for new identity
18:11:57 <ggus> this is happening next week?
18:12:02 <GeKo> no
18:12:06 <pili> ggus: 22nd October
18:12:07 <GeKo> in the next alpha
18:12:14 <GeKo> but we'll have it for 9.0
18:12:14 <pili> oh, even before :)
18:12:23 <GeKo> well we should test it :)
18:12:32 <ggus> because we are going to update our documentation next week...
18:13:06 <ggus> we could create tickets for this new alpha things and put on the hackathon and then merge it in the future
18:13:11 <mcs> So there is at least one more alpha release between 09.03 and 10.22, right?
18:14:05 <GeKo> probably two
18:14:15 <GeKo> we need to test the notarization as well
18:14:22 <mcs> We talked about this in Stockholm but I cannot remember the details :)
18:14:39 <GeKo> i am still debating whether we should make that a macOS only alpha or not
18:14:50 <GeKo> (i did not remember the details either)
18:14:56 <pili> mcs: me neither :/ maybe it's in the notes? :D
18:15:33 <GeKo> but either way
18:15:38 <GeKo> there will be one more alpha at least
18:15:43 <GeKo> because of updater testing
18:16:04 <GeKo> and we probably should have 2 alpha release because of updater testing
18:16:11 <GeKo> one where the esr version changes
18:16:18 <GeKo> and one where it does not change
18:16:30 <GeKo> i recall us hitting bugs in both cases in the past
18:16:38 <GeKo> (luckily in the alpha cycles)
18:18:33 <pili> ok
18:18:54 <pili> any other questions on the upcoming releases before we move onto the EOY campaign discussion?
18:19:31 <ggus> yes o/
18:20:20 <ggus> some weeks ago some users have been sending emails to frontdesk about bridges not working in tba, but i think that was already fixed?
18:20:44 <GeKo> i think custom ones still don't work
18:20:49 <GeKo> for some reason
18:21:27 <pili> ggus: hmm, is that really a release related question? ;)
18:21:32 <GeKo> #30767
18:21:55 <GeKo> that's the only bug i know that could be related and being on file
18:22:00 <ggus> pili: yes, so i can say to users:"this issue was fixed, please download and try again"?
18:22:15 <pili> hehe, you're right, sorry :)
18:22:43 <pili> ok, so the answer I think is that it's not going to be fixed in the upcoming release
18:23:00 <GeKo> either way, yes
18:23:23 <ggus> ok
18:23:51 <pili> ok, EOY Campaign? :)
18:24:13 <GeKo> just to set the constraints before we go too fancy
18:24:29 <GeKo> we won't have time to work on anything before 10/22
18:24:34 <GeKo> maybe anto has
18:24:39 <GeKo> but none of the browser team
18:24:50 <GeKo> *no one
18:25:09 <sstevenson> GeKo: good to know on the outset.
18:25:16 <pili> let me look at the timeline
18:25:17 <GeKo> so if we want to do the first eoy release on 11/4
18:25:31 <GeKo> that leaves roughly exactly 2 weeks
18:25:44 <sstevenson> so if we launch the YE campaign in TB on 11/4, would we follow the code freeze deadlines for 10/22?
18:25:45 <GeKo> which means we'd need to freeze the strings the same week
18:25:48 <GeKo> 9.0 gets out
18:26:00 <sstevenson> got it
18:26:13 <GeKo> the code freeze would be 10/29
18:26:26 <GeKo> which means we have 1 week to code the first version
18:26:29 <GeKo> and have it reviewed
18:26:48 <GeKo> it's certainly doable for a version of the campaign
18:27:12 <sstevenson> with those constraints, let’s talk about what is possible and what is not.
18:27:27 <sstevenson> we talked in stockholm about not doing banners, but using more of the about:tor real estate
18:27:36 <sstevenson> i put the notes in the doc linked in the pad
18:27:37 <pili> I think antonela could possibly work on it before 10/22
18:28:52 <pili> I assume antonela would work on the design mocks before 10/22 and so the browser team would ideally just have to implement her designs
18:29:17 <pili> between 10/22 and 10/29
18:29:22 <sysrqb> "just" :)
18:29:52 <GeKo> both for mobile and desktop i guess
18:29:54 <pili> working your magic... :)
18:30:01 <pili> hmmm, good question, sarah?
18:30:12 <pili> I wasn't even considering mobile personally
18:30:15 <sstevenson> yes, ideally for both mobile and desktop
18:31:10 <sstevenson> if i’m remmeberhing correctly we didn’t have anything for mobile last year, but it would be great to do it this year
18:31:46 <pili> I think the tricky thing with the about:tor page is that it can't be dismissed like the banner
18:32:24 <sstevenson> the suggestion in Stockholm was to have it served 33% of the time, if possible
18:32:45 <pili> GeKo: is that something that would be possible?
18:33:17 <pili> I was reading about this a bit and it seems like mozilla have done something similar some years ago with the firefox about:home page
18:34:49 <GeKo> so 33% means on every third start a thing is shown?
18:34:58 <GeKo> and there is no way to opt out?
18:35:51 <sstevenson> i think that is what isa suggested. it would be best to have a way to opt out.
18:36:42 <GeKo> well, technically it should be possible to come up with something along those lines
18:37:07 <GeKo> i think the big question is how much fanciness we can include in one week
18:37:14 <GeKo> on desktop and mobile
18:38:03 <sstevenson> is it possible to plan for something pretty basic for the 11/4 release and something fancier for the 12/10 release?
18:38:08 <pili> we have 2 iterations of this, maybe the first iteration can be less fancy (whatever that means, e.g no cycling or option out or something)
18:38:14 <pili> sstevenson: exactly :)
18:38:16 <sstevenson> :-)
18:38:20 <GeKo> yeah
18:38:25 <GeKo> sounds good to me
18:38:47 <GeKo> i guess we could have two different versions mocked up for 11/4
18:38:52 <sstevenson> awesome. can you tell us what constraints there are with the less fancy and fancy versions?
18:38:53 <GeKo> depending on how fast we are
18:39:10 <GeKo> we could start with the less fancy one
18:39:21 <GeKo> and just switch to the fancier one if there is time
18:39:36 <GeKo> assuming the logic behind them is not that different
18:40:12 <GeKo> i think mcs and brade know most about potential about:tor constraints
18:40:48 <GeKo> i don't know about specific ones
18:40:53 <mcs> I don’t know what a fancy page would look like compared to the existing about:tor so it is haed to provide good feedback.
18:41:09 <GeKo> yeah
18:41:27 <sstevenson> so someone suggested animated gifs - i am guessing this is fancy?
18:41:32 <mcs> It is an xhtml page that includes some dynamic content as well as some variation for mobile
18:41:41 <GeKo> i think keeping in mind potential complexity of what is supposed to happen when the page is shown
18:41:46 <GeKo> are about to get shown
18:41:52 <GeKo> could be important
18:42:42 <pili> sstevenson: I imagine the difficulty is in only showing stuff some of the time or being able to dismiss it, but I'll let mcs comment further :)
18:43:33 <mcs> I think those aspects will be similar to other banners we have done in the past. But I guess Arthur and acat worked on those mostly.
18:43:52 <mcs> (an [X] to dismiss or similar backed by a pref)
18:44:30 <mcs> Also, changing one part of the page is a lot simpler and safer than completely replacing it.
18:44:54 <sstevenson> this is all good info
18:44:56 <mcs> So for example an animated gif that is positioned above the search box does not sound too fancy to me
18:45:17 <mcs> But a completely different layout of existing items on that page… that will be difficult.
18:45:52 <mcs> brade is here reminding me that each variation (including dates shown) need to be tested too
18:46:15 <sstevenson> so fewer variations is better
18:46:26 <mcs> for reducing dev time, yes :)
18:46:33 <sstevenson> we were thinking that we’d do less testing this time around so that works
18:47:41 <sstevenson> okay, i know antonela doesn’t have much time to work on this until the second week of september, but i’ll keep fleshing out concepts with the fundraising group with these constraints in mind
18:48:01 <GeKo> sounds good
18:48:40 <mcs> another thing to think about is that we do not want to annoy people too much; then they might switch to a different home page
18:48:53 <mcs> which will not be good for future fundraising efforts!
18:49:00 <sstevenson> right. good point
18:52:37 <pili> anything else that would help sstevenson with the concepts? anything else that is hard to do?
18:54:00 <GeKo> i guess it would help if we had early potential ideas to comment on
18:54:11 <GeKo> like in the respective trac ticket
18:55:03 <GeKo> to iterate together on them
18:55:22 <GeKo> so that we are on the same page on 10/22 and can start the coding right away
18:55:42 <GeKo> without losing time debating whether the concepts are feasible or not
18:55:49 <pili> ok
18:56:12 <sstevenson> i’ll share concepts via trac when we have them and will have wireframes when antonela has time to work on them
18:56:15 <pili> so I'll work with antonela to come up with a timeline when she can work on this and have something ready
18:56:26 <pili> sounds like we have a plan :)
18:56:33 <GeKo> yeah, sounds good
18:56:36 <sstevenson> thanks, everyone!
18:56:53 <pili> ok, anything else in the last 3 minutes? :)
18:57:07 <GeKo> i am fine
18:58:39 <pili> ok
18:58:44 <pili> let's stop the bot
18:58:47 <pili> #endmeeting