13:59:48 <antonela> #startmeeting ux-team
13:59:48 <MeetBot> Meeting started Tue Jul 30 13:59:48 2019 UTC.  The chair is antonela. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
13:59:48 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
14:00:13 <antonela> oi, a new ux team meeting this week
14:00:16 <pili> hi
14:00:21 <antonela> hi pili o/
14:00:26 <pili> :)
14:00:41 <antonela> lets start as always, sharing our meeting pad
14:00:42 <antonela> https://storm.torproject.org/shared/Ht3tWeGIqEmzXoUbd5UkLL7wAhByQh9w0y4zL5CFGm4
14:00:57 <antonela> i added some topics i'd like to discuss, feel free to add yours
14:01:01 <antonela> is emmapeel around?
14:02:26 <antonela> okey, lets do it, pili i have some questions for you
14:02:35 <pili> sure :)
14:02:46 <pili> I'm a bit late with updates and discussion points on the pad, but we can start
14:02:59 <antonela> we talked a bit yesterday during the community team meeting, but is the plan to have the ux team roadmap in dip? i think yes, but want to have cross-check :)
14:03:29 <antonela> if yes, how are you planning it for the community team and what we can replicate here (columns per month, per label, per project?)
14:03:50 <pili> I would like us to move, so, yes
14:04:05 <pili> we're still going to have some stuff in trac, e.g for the work that crosses over with browser team
14:04:08 <pili> but that's ok
14:04:22 <pili> I started playing with columns per month with community team
14:04:25 <antonela> oki, should i wait to do anything there until you and gaba have it ready?
14:04:30 <pili> but we can decide whether that works or not for us
14:04:52 <antonela> cool, i like per month columns, that is how ooni does and i think is very clear to see in one page what is going on
14:05:07 <pili> I think we should decide how we want to organise the projects in dip
14:05:32 <pili> e.g do we want to create a new project for each new feature?
14:05:33 <pili> as in gitlab projects
14:05:34 <antonela> yes, i saw you are staking projects under the tor project one, but /ux is not there
14:05:35 <pili> or do we want to have a new project created in gitlab for each sponsor
14:05:52 <pili> we can move the ux group under tor project easily :)
14:05:56 <pili> if we want to do that
14:06:03 <antonela> i dont have an answer for it, probably is a decision that pms should made and we will stick to what you decide
14:06:08 <pili> if so, it will be subgroup of tor project
14:06:09 <antonela> *make
14:06:28 <pili> the other thing is that we can create subgroups for areas within teams
14:06:39 <pili> e.g by moving website as a subgroup of UX
14:07:09 <pili> then we can have the overall UX board which can have items from the projects under the Website subgroup's projects
14:07:19 <antonela> that is the dream :)
14:07:32 <pili> (not sure if that makes sense)
14:07:33 <pili> perfect
14:07:34 <pili> so I will start playing around with this some more
14:08:07 <pili> I would like us to brainstorm how we define projects in gitlab though, e.g do we want to do it by sponsor? by feature?
14:08:39 <pili> antonela: how are you currently defining "projects" to organise your work?
14:08:41 <antonela> oki, im currently using your big spreadsheet of sponsors to check what i should be working on, but then it works just for me, and we need a way to enhance collabs on this flow
14:09:12 <antonela> depends, sometimes the project is a team + the project
14:09:25 <antonela> like fundraising + end of year campaign
14:09:32 <pili> right :)
14:09:45 <antonela> sometimes is an sponsor and a sub task like s9 - user research
14:10:25 <pili> well, it's good to have some examples, gives me some more ideas to play with
14:10:47 <antonela> i have been reporting our work in that way so far https://pad.riseup.net/p/ux-report-kp
14:11:35 <pili> we could do projects at the sponsor level and create milestones for the work areas
14:11:49 <antonela> i think sponsors should be labels
14:11:50 <emmapeel> o/
14:11:53 <pili> hey emmapeel
14:11:58 <antonela> hi emmapeel
14:12:02 <pili> antonela: ok
14:12:17 <antonela> so you have the flexibility to tag teams, projects, whatever with that sponsor
14:12:32 <pili> I guess the tasks are more longer and the sponsors are short term
14:12:39 <antonela> having a repo per sponsor is weird, specially because when the sponsor ends the repo work continues, often, sometimes sadly not
14:12:40 <pili> s/longer/long term
14:12:45 <pili> yup
14:12:48 <pili> makes sense
14:13:07 <pili> ok
14:13:21 <antonela> so you have teams, you have projects and some other teams can be part/invited to those projects
14:14:18 <pili> yup
14:14:18 <antonela> and then someone like a pm can filter per tag and see all the sponsor work tagged under that sponsor label
14:14:19 <pili> ok
14:14:22 <antonela> oki
14:15:19 <antonela> the other thing i'd like to do when we leave trac is to use the repo readme as a team wiki, probably with the aim to easy maintain one of those
14:16:42 <antonela> the next item i have in the agenda is the styleguide maintenance, do we have any plans to make it happen? should i put hours on it? what is the priority?
14:16:57 <antonela> (i can give you some prioritization hints about it lol)
14:17:02 <pili> please ;)
14:17:03 <emmapeel> heh
14:17:10 <pili> so, what is actually needed in terms of maintenance?
14:17:21 <antonela> that query, just as an start
14:17:32 <pili> the only thing I'm aware of is that we were talking about adding the latex templates to it?
14:17:34 * pili goes look
14:17:43 <emmapeel> i moved the caps from the titles but i didnt added any explanation... could not find a nice place to do it
14:18:35 <pili> I think the icon for next-generation onions is part of S27 also?
14:18:53 <pili> the other thing is how much bandwidth hiro has to dedicate on it
14:19:07 <pili> I think the styleguide is a good reference to have
14:19:34 <antonela> yes, but we need more urgent stuffs like breadcrumbs at the community portal for example
14:19:39 <pili> yeah
14:20:02 <antonela> so maybe the best way to go is 1. know when the community portal stable release will be 2. having me two weeks doing just frontend (and no another stuffs)
14:20:05 <pili> is this all stuff that hiro has to do or can we all pitch in and do a bit at a time
14:20:48 <pili> 1. stable-stable has to be by 1st January
14:20:49 <antonela> i dont think is all hiro
14:20:56 <pili> so let's say end of November
14:21:08 <antonela> si, but then we have 3 sponsors running
14:21:09 <pili> I'm thinking of stable-stable as ready to be shared publicly
14:21:24 <antonela> so leaving everything for november is not smart
14:21:31 <pili> 2. I'm fine with that but we need to find the time :)
14:21:45 <pili> the other deadline should be end of August
14:21:56 <pili> because then our partners should start running trainings in September
14:22:02 <pili> and they should have a good resource to refer to
14:22:08 <pili> so those are the 2 deadlines
14:22:22 <antonela> okey, so do you think that websites should be my priority for august?
14:22:34 <pili> I need to do some community portal gardening ready for our meeting tomorrow
14:22:47 <antonela> oki
14:23:07 <pili> yup, to priority for august
14:23:19 * antonela noted
14:23:30 <antonela> i have some stuffs for gaba, but i can talk with her after this meeting
14:23:31 <pili> do you know of any fundraising or OONI work needed for August?
14:23:32 <pili> (fwiw I don't :) )
14:24:03 <antonela> i should talk with hellais about it
14:24:20 <antonela> about the blog, is that something we can talk tomorrow during the websites meeting?
14:24:31 <pili> I also have Network Settings, New identity and Onboarding	for august for tbb
14:24:38 <antonela> that is what i have too
14:24:43 <antonela> this is why im asking :)
14:24:44 <pili> but I think that can possibly wait
14:24:53 <gaba> hi!
14:25:02 <gaba> finally online.... I got lost in the union station in DC
14:25:07 <pili> :)
14:25:11 <antonela> well, it cannot because tb is working with tor launcher overhaul and it includes network settings redesign
14:25:30 <antonela> hey gaba!
14:25:40 <antonela> no worries!
14:25:55 <pili> ok, so let's estimate
14:26:10 <pili> how much time do you think you need to get the community portal user research section ready?
14:26:43 <antonela> im delaying it because probably we will have a user research coordinator and basically is something that this person should be ok on what we are going to have in that section
14:27:33 <pili> we really should have this ready by september though
14:27:52 <pili> maybe we can delay until second round of training in october
14:28:36 <antonela> i really want to have it done
14:28:37 <pili> that would mean working on this in august and september
14:28:40 <pili> me too :)
14:29:31 <pili> ok, do what you can on this for now and we'll see where we are next week?
14:30:16 <antonela> im trying to close this month with snowflake work done, specially because phw/cohosh need it before roger's talk in defcon
14:30:25 <pili> ok
14:30:27 <antonela> so im prioritizing snowflake this week
14:30:32 <pili> that's fine
14:30:33 <antonela> not sure if is goo tho
14:30:38 <antonela> haha, i tried to get the thing done
14:30:42 <pili> I think we can manage
14:30:45 <antonela> oki
14:30:51 <pili> and then next week you jump back on to TBB
14:31:00 <antonela> i hope
14:31:03 <pili> we need to negotiate with OONI about how much of your time they need
14:31:08 <antonela> si
14:31:18 <antonela> i want to have ooni explorer on a shape for the stable release
14:31:39 <antonela> i'll sync with hellais about what is the best way to run short iterations together
14:31:45 <antonela> so we can close that release
14:32:18 <pili> also in august we need to think about the whole feedback collection and review mechanism for S9
14:32:33 <antonela> haha
14:32:34 <antonela> yes
14:32:37 <pili> that's more important than the community portal btw ;)
14:32:46 <antonela> that is the user research part as well
14:33:33 <pili> yeah, but it's more about defining the process
14:33:36 <pili> putting it up on the community portal is work beyond defining the process
14:33:50 <antonela> can we sync about all this after this meeting pili?
14:33:54 <pili> sure
14:34:02 <antonela> super, thanks!
14:34:05 <antonela> gaba, i have for you two items
14:34:22 <gaba> ok
14:34:23 <antonela> 1. when s30 starts
14:34:28 <antonela> 2. metrics portal and simplysecure - anything needed on my side?
14:34:47 <emmapeel> i hope next metrics portal has localization :S
14:35:20 <antonela> emmapeel: are you leaving your updates at the community team pad or at the ux team pad?
14:35:32 <emmapeel> oh the updates yes
14:35:34 <gaba> 1. we still did not sign the contract... but we said that we would have August 1st as the day starting. Phw is already working on some of this stuff in August and I need to check with OONI on their part.
14:35:48 <antonela> emmapeel: there is one ticket that needs your review for snowflake - #30310
14:35:51 <gaba> 2. They send a proposal that I need to go through. Did you see it? They will submit to OTF
14:36:00 <gaba> On 2, it would be good for you to check it
14:36:21 <antonela> 1. awesome, i have it for next month too
14:36:22 <emmapeel> antonela: i am working with snowflake localization yep
14:37:14 <antonela> 2. yes, i'll reply to the thread this week, my question is, does the metrics team still want it? is related with the work they are going to do?
14:37:14 <emmapeel> antonela: i have asked some stuff on the ticket
14:37:55 <antonela> emmapeel: cool, thanks. Could you also add the l10n updates for june and july at the pad? https://pad.riseup.net/p/ux-report-kp
14:38:12 <gaba> antonela: on 2, yes. I need to talk with karsten and irl (i just came back from vacation yesterday) to see where it ended up in the roadmap
14:38:12 <antonela> emmapeel: im planning to send it before this week ends
14:38:39 <antonela> gaba, cool, i plan to attend the metrics meeting this week and we can sync on it there, sounds good?
14:38:45 <emmapeel> antonela: ok!
14:38:52 <antonela> emmapeel: thanks!
14:38:55 <gaba> antonela: about 1, I created the master ticket for it.
14:38:57 <irl> i am busy even with non-metrics things for at least two weeks so it is unlikely i will have time for free time metrics things
14:39:00 <gaba> ok
14:39:09 <gaba> irl: it will not be in the next two weeks
14:39:18 <irl> yeah, but then i have to catch up with the metrics things
14:39:25 <antonela> yes is not, we are on writing proposal stage
14:39:28 <gaba> irl: simplysecure is applying for funding
14:39:32 <irl> ah ok cool
14:39:38 <irl> then yes, we still want it
14:39:43 <antonela> oh cool
14:39:44 <gaba> #31265 is the master ticket for s30
14:39:57 <pili> emmapeel: we should sync about the fundraising banner localization also
14:40:10 <antonela> gaba, yes i saw it and looks perfect for me! thanks for opening those tickets
14:40:33 <emmapeel> pili: yes
14:41:11 <antonela> irl, gaba, lets talk about it during the metrics sync and lets make sure that they (SS) are working on something we want/need
14:41:12 <pili> are we getting translators to localise? I believe we only have a few languages fully localised in the latest release
14:41:31 <gaba> sounds good
14:41:32 <pili> which is fine ;)
14:41:42 <pili> maybe we can get some more languages for the next release
14:41:49 <antonela> gaba, irl, cool, thanks!
14:42:14 <emmapeel> pili: i dont understand. you mean the whole TOr Browser? well, fi there are new strings maybe they take a while to be localized. but most of the app is localized in several languages
14:42:48 <dunqan> hello all! sorry, I was on a train and couldn't connect
14:42:49 <pili> nono, the fundraising banner
14:42:58 <emmapeel> i am pinging translators from the ones that are deployed and not translated totally: https://torpat.ch/locales (i do that once in a while)
14:43:16 <emmapeel> aaaah the fundraising. yes, but is part of the browser i think. i could make a call
14:43:31 <pili> so I think we only got the fundraising banner fully translated for some languages
14:43:32 <pili> cool, thanks emmapeel :)
14:43:36 <antonela> hey dunqan o/
14:43:57 <dunqan> o/ :D
14:44:03 <antonela> how are you :)
14:44:13 <dunqan> great! how is everyone else??
14:45:05 <antonela> dunqan: i'll be working with TB network settings, will mention you in the ticket so you can give a view on it, no hurries, just to let you know in advance :)
14:45:32 <dunqan> sure thing, sounds interesting :)
14:45:46 <pili> that reminds me, the VPN blog post/doc is not going to be ready for a couple of weeks now
14:45:57 <antonela> pili could we make sure that we have emmapeel during the tor browser release meetings? so we can coordinate the localization efforts too?
14:45:58 <pili> but I'm hoping we'll have something by mid August
14:46:15 <dunqan> ah thanks pili, I was just going to ask
14:46:26 <pili> yes please emmapeel :) next one is tomorrow @ 18:00 UTC
14:47:16 <dunqan> I've got some post-stockholm persona notes/next steps I'm working up too antonela – will just email those across and we can sync up later on that front
14:47:17 <emmapeel> i can go once in a while, but i would rather not add another meeting to my schedule. i have almost 25% of the time on meetings
14:47:40 <pili> luckily it's every other week :D
14:47:44 <emmapeel> i have attended some release meetings
14:47:47 <pili> yup :)
14:48:18 <antonela> dunqan: awesome, will wait for them - if you feel open, you can make a comment a the ticket so we make this process public
14:48:24 <antonela> *at
14:48:29 <pili> what I can do is to invite you when I know we're going to be discussing localization for releases
14:48:44 <dunqan> antonela: oh yes of course
14:48:47 <emmapeel> yeah pili that would be great! i will attend tomorrow
14:48:58 <pili> thanks! :)
14:49:03 <antonela> awesome!
14:49:23 <gaba> I have a question about user stories in the process of defining a project.
14:49:28 <antonela> yes, go gaba
14:49:35 <gaba> not sure if there is anything else to talk about in the meeting :)
14:49:38 <antonela> yes yes
14:49:43 <pili> I'm good :)
14:49:52 <antonela> we have 10 mins, we can start on it and move to another channel
14:50:13 * antonela #tor-ux is a thing
14:50:14 <gaba> We are drafting a proposal for IPv6 for a grant that we are applying in September.
14:50:39 <antonela> yep
14:50:40 <gaba> And I would like to incorporate a way to think about users in the process of putting together this project.
14:51:21 <gaba> But I'm wondering in which moment of the process it would be good for us to start thinking about user stories. It usually happens when the product is being defined. But here it is mostly about a project to have IPv6 across Tor
14:51:21 <antonela> that is great
14:51:55 <gaba> Should I suggest we think about user stories now (when writing the proposal) or do we do it after the grant is confirmed.
14:52:34 <gaba> thoughts?
14:52:48 <pili> I would say it depends on the funder and their priorities :)
14:53:04 <pili> but in general it would make sense to know what the user story is when writing the proposal
14:53:14 <antonela> i think that depends on the founder. Personally, i like the idea to share with founders how end-users will get benefits from the technical work we are doing. But probably, it will not benefit just end users but also developers implementing Tor
14:53:31 <pili> I'm just thinking about team capacity here
14:53:32 <pili> hehe
14:53:33 <pili> +1 to what antonela said "D
14:53:34 <pili> :D
14:53:56 <emmapeel> i thought the user stories could help to argument the grants
14:54:03 <pili> emmapeel: yes
14:54:16 <gaba> I was not thinking about something that we totally include in the proposal but can guide us to write it.
14:54:17 <antonela> that said, we can write together some high level user objectives and then back to split them in smaller user stories once the grant start
14:54:23 <pili> but maybe the funder only cares about the technology and not the human impact of it
14:54:52 <pili> although that looks weird as I read it back :)
14:56:21 <dunqan> if it's something I can help with, antonela's suggestion of high-level stories/epics sounds spot on – with the bulk of the user stories coming later in the definition phase
14:56:35 <antonela> gaba, could that work? having an spreadsheet we talked about yesterday with [As a user] [i want to] [so] and find user stories that get benefits for that technical improvement
14:56:50 <dunqan> i guess there's a tie-in for how the persona/user stories work can support grant applications in general too
14:57:24 <gaba> yes, in that case we would do it with the devs that will work on the project. I'm still doubting if it is the best use of our time to do it now instead of later
14:57:38 <antonela> and also i think is good for funders to link the technical improvement with a real user experience enhancement
14:57:46 <gaba> yes
14:58:24 <antonela> maybe one dev, duncan/me, and you to think about 3/5 high level user stories
14:58:39 <antonela> and that is enough for this moment of the process
14:58:49 <gaba> ok
14:58:58 <gaba> I will write a mail to you all and include teor4
14:59:07 <antonela> sounds good
14:59:16 <antonela> anything else folks? one minute to die
14:59:47 <dunqan> are you in another meeting in 1 min antonela, or are you free for a moment?
14:59:57 <pili> I'm good
15:00:00 <antonela> im free! lets talk over tor-ux
15:00:07 <dunqan> awesome!
15:00:10 <antonela> #endmeeting