18:58:41 #startmeeting tor browser 1/7 2019 18:58:41 Meeting started Mon Jan 7 18:58:41 2019 UTC. The chair is GeKo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 18:58:41 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 18:58:46 hey all! 18:58:52 hi! 18:58:53 welcome to our first meeting in 2019 18:59:13 hi 18:59:19 o/ 18:59:20 Happy 2019 to all! 18:59:20 !!! 18:59:32 hello hello 19:00:02 the pad is, as in 2018, on https://storm.torproject.org/shared/tHoN4Ii7rLSjPE0OP4gydX4cMGadsXmRQNc-6lwru0N 19:00:29 please add your items and look over things others have written in case you want to comment/discuss 19:01:05 hi! 19:05:01 okay, let's get started 19:05:13 i am first it seems 19:05:36 a gentle reminder that the timesheets for december are due today 19:05:54 (for those of you who need to do the timesheet things) 19:06:02 oh, and while we are at it: 19:06:46 another gentle reminder to use the "/me status: fixing all the bugs" at least once a day to keep everyone updated over the week 19:07:47 pili: you are up 19:09:08 hi everyone, we're looking to submit 2 proposals to DRL and in order to decide which projects we should try to request funding for we would like you to think about the Browser team's needs and priorities for 2019 to consider them for a proposal 19:09:37 I have put together the following pad with some background and details: https://storm.torproject.org/shared/DWoSG7f1qUTdhXz1l9i7bL-SYxIe00fB_a16l440s6A 19:10:16 additionally, there is an nlnet grant that we might want to submit something for, although to me it seems like it would be more relevant for the network or metrics team 19:10:53 in any case, your ideas about the needs and priorities will help us to match any upcoming calls to projects :) 19:11:37 thanks 19:11:52 i guess we should think about that this week 19:11:56 also, this does not mean that we will submit the SOI for browser team work, it's just to give us an idea of what we should find funding for, we will gather the needs and priorities for every team, then based on that we'll do some analysis based on budgets :) 19:11:59 and try to come up with something :) 19:12:02 yes please! 19:12:08 deadline for the SOI is 2nd Feb 19:12:11 so the earlier the better 19:12:50 we have a grants/funding meeting on wednesday so it would be nice to have some ideas for then... if not, the following weds would be the final final deadline 19:13:34 sounds good 19:14:15 any questions? :) 19:14:57 i don't have any right now 19:16:08 the other thing I had to mention is the release meeting this week, is there anyone we should make a point of inviting for this one? 19:16:34 hm 19:16:37 o/ hi - happy new year everyone, sorry i'm late (qubes trouble) 19:16:44 \o 19:17:05 pili: i guess we should remove the donation banner again? 19:17:10 what should we have instead? 19:17:46 i recall sstevenson wanting the news sign up back? 19:17:56 might be worth being clear about that 19:18:06 newsletter sign up sounds reasonable, but you are right, we should confirm 19:18:23 I'll send her an email 19:18:28 apart from that nothing coms to mind regarding external invites 19:18:33 *comes 19:19:18 okay, antonela you are up i guess 19:19:27 thanks! happy new year team! 19:19:44 sysrqb: could we sync at some point this week where we are on tba onboarding? I'm quite lost :) 19:20:20 antonela: yep! 19:20:49 (i will be afk a bit, at a conference, but we can find a time) 19:21:00 (conference later this week) 19:21:01 sure, let me know what works better for you 19:21:03 re: snowflake - not sure if someone wants to, but i have been working on this UI for a browser snowflake extension, i have been reading about firefox extensions, but if some dev could take a look at it, would be really useful 19:21:28 relevant ticket is #23888 19:21:49 and probably we should include it in some SOI document because not sure if is funded but seems to be prior 19:22:02 done ^__^ 19:24:56 who is writing that extension? 19:25:05 (sorry got disconnected) 19:25:47 i.e. is that some (hidden) s19 work for tor browser folks? 19:26:16 good question, i'm working with ahf on it but i don't think he is working on the extension precisely 19:26:32 sounds like s19 to me :) 19:26:48 however the DRL SOI seems very relevant for this also 19:26:51 yes, i agree 19:27:20 antonela: so what is the current plan with #23888? 19:27:34 so, in my (possibly mistaken) view the network extension is a UI on top of the JS that we will be working on for snowflake itself (the JS is already there, we just need to make it production ready) 19:27:54 ahf: ha, i was about to ping you :) 19:27:59 (: 19:28:00 where we need to be able to tune various things (via the settings) such as "only use this much BW per day" 19:28:03 and so on 19:28:04 that ticket looks like something someone wanted, but it's not necessarily something that was planned for s19(?) 19:28:37 ahf: who is "we"? 19:28:54 we is whoever ends up doing that part of the webextension 19:28:55 (there might be different "we"s) 19:28:58 us 19:29:02 great 19:29:25 the hard part here is still getting the javascript proxy code to be production ready. from there to the webextension i think is an easier step 19:29:35 ahf: where is that code? 19:29:55 somewhere in our git infra? 19:29:59 https://gitweb.torproject.org/pluggable-transports/snowflake.git/tree/proxy 19:30:11 is the javascript code (written in coffeescript because ...) 19:31:09 okay. 19:31:42 i still don't know if the webextension is in or out of our priorities for s19, i remember there was some confusion about that before christmas, but i think that is something pili/gaba knows 19:31:56 right :) 19:32:08 i hope we can do it, because i think it's a great way to ensure more stable users rather than having lots of user always having a tab open on the right site 19:32:13 I think it actually wasn't one of the top priorities, but we're not going to complain if it gets done ;) 19:32:27 ahf:+1 19:32:48 having said that gaba is more on top of the s19 work 19:32:51 yes, we still didn't work priorities for s19. So far we have the stuff in the network team roadmap and we are going to work on building a new roadmap for it during the hackweek. 19:32:55 hi :) 19:33:07 gaba: cool! 19:33:24 well we really believe that we can bring more users enabling snowflake if we make that a web extension, than relies on sysadmins to load it into their sites 19:33:31 but is another meeting discussion 19:33:32 yes, 19:33:40 if someone here is interested in working on that, maybe could join us on our next snowflake meeting 19:33:43 antonela: yes! +1 many times 19:33:45 we agreed it is important in the last snowflake meeting 19:33:57 * antonela tries to hunt devs 19:34:02 :) 19:34:04 I'm thinking we need to start having regular meetings for s19 19:34:07 hehe 19:34:08 snowflake included.. 19:34:25 so we want to have another extension besides cupcake where it is included? 19:34:30 a curious thing about this webextension is that it wont make sense for torbrowser users at all because we use webrtc, which is udp :-P 19:34:31 why is cupcake not enough? 19:34:40 yes 19:34:43 GeKo: cupcake is one of the things we are looking at using. i think antonela is in contact with saint already 19:35:00 okay, good. 19:35:11 ye, i talked with saint -- im proposing this UI which is less cupcake branded and more 'snowflake' branded 19:35:43 i hope it make easier to users to understand what is happening on each state 19:36:13 gaba:+1 to regular s19 meetings 19:36:21 gaba: si, lets do it 19:36:23 wanted to discuss with you this week (we can talk about it tomorrow) 19:36:59 yes pili. let's check tomorrow how/when/who 19:37:23 okay, any other updates? pospeselr? 19:37:30 yeah sorry snuck one in there 19:37:34 np 19:37:48 so long story short we've a disk leak on windows thanks to jumplist storage 19:38:22 What's it leak? Just that TB was used or actual data? 19:38:36 but do to windows internals implementation details there's no clean way to remove the backing file without basically iterating through all the files in a particular directory, and looking for Tor strings to identify the offending file 19:38:46 just that TB was installed at some point 19:39:13 hm 19:39:19 so not the biggest deal as no history or anything like that is exposed 19:39:46 so yeah, the actual algo to do the work is easy enough to implement, but seems a bit 'hacky' 19:39:55 was wondering if had any opinions on that 19:40:00 if we had any* 19:40:45 i think if we can be sure that we only got those files with that algo that's fine with me 19:41:52 long term we could remove the code once it can be reasonably assumed that most users have updated 19:41:59 at any rate we should not spend too much time on this issue 19:42:00 alright, that's all 19:42:01 yeah 19:42:11 (given other priorities) 19:42:23 okay, then some discussion 19:42:30 upcoming releases 19:42:40 we have two planned releases in Q1 19:42:47 the first is on 1/29 19:43:10 and the other is on 3/19 19:43:36 we should use both to stabilize the alphas i think and in particular tba 19:43:52 my current thinking is releasing 8.5 at the end of march then 19:44:32 we could have another alpha between those two scheduled releases for testing/tor updates etc 19:44:35 as needed 19:44:52 but that remains to be seen i guess 19:45:05 does that sound reasonable? 19:45:35 yes 19:46:04 sounds good to me 19:46:19 works for me 19:46:23 when do you expect the next tb8.5a? 19:46:28 1/29 19:46:44 cool, im planning our next usability research, i'd like to use it for it 19:46:49 thanks geko 19:47:03 sure, let me know who we can help 19:47:06 *how 19:47:18 Is it a problem that the fundraising banner will stay around until 1/29? 19:47:37 not sure 19:47:42 Or does it disable itself based on date? 19:47:53 we can ask on wed in the release meeting 19:48:01 let me see 19:49:30 i don't think it disables itself this time as it uses the news sign up mechanism 19:49:38 so, we should ask on wed 19:50:11 the second item i have 19:50:34 we need to move forward with out tor-launcher and torbutton integration 19:50:53 into tor browser 19:51:10 or redoing them as webextensions 19:52:02 so, please think about that this week and/or follow-up on the tbb-dev thread "Torbutton and Tor-Launcher Webextensions" 19:52:19 GeKo: i sent an email dated jan 03 related with ux research - no hurries, im sure you have a long backlog 19:52:49 antonela: where did you sent that to? 19:53:30 your email? checking 19:53:33 the tor-launcher/torbutton redoing might be too hard to get into 8.5 but we should try to land this shortly thereafter 19:53:54 to have this done and tested before we start preparing 9.0 19:54:12 mcs/brade: i guess you'll lead the tor-launcher efforts 19:54:14 GeKo: oops i missed you, sent now :) 19:54:43 igt0: we might be able to do the torbutton things together 19:54:47 GeKo: Yes. That will give us something to do in January and maybe beyond ;) 19:54:55 at least that's my current thinking 19:55:10 mcs: if it's just january, fine with me ;) 19:55:13 awesome +1 19:55:38 so, please think about it this week, we'll nail the details down next monday 19:56:34 anything else for discussion today? 19:58:34 sysrqb: pospeselr: i'd still be happy to read the mozilla-all-hands report :) 19:58:41 (just sayin') 19:59:00 seems we are done today, thanks everyone! *baf* 19:59:04 #endmeeting