18:01:16 <GeKo> #startmeeting tor-browser 10/29
18:01:16 <MeetBot> Meeting started Mon Oct 29 18:01:16 2018 UTC.  The chair is GeKo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:01:16 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
18:01:42 <arthuredelstein> hi everyone!
18:01:43 <GeKo> okay, hope the europeans did the daylight savings time correctly :)
18:01:47 <igt0> o/
18:02:00 <GeKo> pad url as usual: https://storm.torproject.org/shared/tHoN4Ii7rLSjPE0OP4gydX4cMGadsXmRQNc-6lwru0N
18:02:13 <GeKo> please enter your items and mark those things bold you want to talk about
18:03:37 <pili> hi
18:03:38 <boklm> hi!
18:04:23 <pospeselr> hello hello
18:04:28 <antonela> hello
18:04:30 <sysrqb> .
18:04:33 <sisbell> hi
18:04:46 * antonela is watching storm loading
18:06:04 <GeKo> okay, let's start
18:07:17 <GeKo> so, tba release to pick up the 60.3.0esr fixes
18:07:23 <GeKo> sysrqb: igt0: what do you think?
18:08:08 <sysrqb> I hope we can release this week
18:08:18 <igt0> +1
18:08:36 <igt0> Are we also going to have the proxy bypass stuff for the next release?
18:08:38 <GeKo> what are blockers for that rightnow?
18:08:51 <GeKo> that was the plan and the reason for the delay
18:09:13 <GeKo> otherwise tba would have gone out last tuesday with the other releases
18:09:14 <sysrqb> i thought the dns leak was the only blocker
18:09:41 <sysrqb> but if we want the banner, as well, then I can prioritise that and help igt0, too
18:09:56 <GeKo> no, let's get the sec update out first
18:10:23 <GeKo> i'd like some testing before the banner gets out, so we get that part right
18:10:28 <tjr> hey all; sorry i am going to have to leave; feeling rather sick. but i;l be around this week so feel free to leave me messages
18:10:36 <GeKo> o/
18:10:37 <sysrqb> tjr: feel better!
18:10:39 <GeKo> get better soon!
18:10:53 <sysrqb> GeKo: Okay, that sounds good.
18:11:18 <sysrqb> igt0 and I will prioritise the DNS leak so we can release a new alpha version
18:11:26 <GeKo> i'll be afk on thu and fri
18:11:35 <GeKo> and probably wed afternoon my time
18:11:51 <sysrqb> so we need a new tag by tuesday
18:11:54 <GeKo> so, this means today or tomorrow unless you rope boklm in for the signing
18:11:59 <sysrqb> yeah
18:12:18 <GeKo> so, let's try to get something tagged tomorrow?
18:12:30 <boklm> is it gpg signing?
18:12:34 <sysrqb> yes, sounds good to me
18:12:50 <sysrqb> boklm: yes, gpg and android signing (we do both)
18:13:09 <boklm> I know how to do the gpg signing, but I don't know about the android signing
18:13:27 <sysrqb> i'm the only one who can do the android signing right now :(
18:13:32 <boklm> ok
18:13:56 <sysrqb> igt0: does that sound okay?
18:15:08 <sysrqb> (okay, we can assume yes, until something changes)
18:15:18 <GeKo> sysrqb: igt0: while looking over the pad could you comment on #28144
18:15:19 <igt0> sysrqb, yep! After the meeting I will write down few comments in the proxy bypass ticket
18:15:29 <GeKo> about what is needed for the "official" builds
18:15:46 <GeKo> i remember that i hacked up the tor-browser-build part and  included torbutton and noscript
18:15:53 <sysrqb> igt0: thanks
18:15:58 <sysrqb> GeKo: sure, will do
18:16:01 <GeKo> directly in the bundle
18:16:10 <GeKo> but i don't know whether there is more
18:16:13 <GeKo> sisbell: ^
18:17:09 <GeKo> arthuredelstein: if you feel like picking up some ff60esr bugs that sounds great to me
18:17:25 <GeKo> there is still some fingerprinting investigation to be done :)
18:17:41 <GeKo> otherwise if you get bored there is the optimistic socks stuff waiting ;)
18:17:52 <GeKo> antonela: you are up!
18:18:00 <antonela> thanks!
18:18:18 <antonela> i shared today with tpo a survey to define our next Tor Browser Icon, so please vote!
18:18:21 <antonela> https://survey.torproject.org/index.php/989654
18:18:24 <arthuredelstein> GeKo: yes! that's also on my list. :)
18:19:25 <GeKo> antonela: what's your envisioned process and timeframe for this?
18:20:03 <GeKo> (beyond the poll itself)
18:20:06 <antonela> two weeks for people to vote, and then i'll create versions for different channel updates (nightly, alphas and stable) and then we are ready!
18:20:29 <GeKo> so, the most votes win?
18:20:30 <pospeselr> woo! :)
18:20:38 <antonela> seems like that :)
18:21:01 <GeKo> do we need a min amount of folks voting for that?
18:21:25 <antonela> good question, i don't know
18:21:27 <pili> I'll hold back my vote if necessary ;)
18:21:33 <antonela> hahaha
18:22:13 <GeKo> okay, we'll see how it goes then :)
18:22:21 <antonela> i got +45 so far :D
18:22:35 <GeKo> i don't have a strong preference here just wanted to understand how the selection works
18:22:48 <GeKo> wow, okay
18:22:58 <pili> not bad at all :)_
18:23:17 <pili> do we want to tweet about it also?
18:23:36 <antonela> maybe, i'll talk with steph about it
18:23:39 <pospeselr> that sounds like a bad idea...
18:23:43 <GeKo> sysrqb: sisbell: could you coordinate in case that's needed for the orbot integration?
18:23:43 <antonela> haha
18:23:50 <pili> :D
18:23:55 <pili> or maybe we could even do something nice in instagram... dunno, brainstorming a bit :)
18:24:10 <GeKo> i guess that might be necessary to understand what to do with the orbot we build during the tor-browser-build process
18:24:12 <sisbell> GeKo: sure, will do
18:24:22 <GeKo> great, thanks
18:24:43 <GeKo> (or if there are fixups needed for orbot we need to ship, etc.)
18:24:55 <sysrqb> yeah
18:25:05 <sysrqb> we'll need some fixups, at a minimum
18:25:24 <GeKo> yup
18:25:44 <GeKo> alright, anything else for the status update part of the meeting?
18:27:07 <GeKo> okay, discussion time.
18:27:26 <GeKo> first about our meeting time from next week on
18:28:19 <GeKo> are we good with moving our meeting to 19UTC to accomodate the latest edition of daylight savings time changes?
18:28:31 <boklm> this sounds good to me
18:29:08 <pili> ok with me also
18:30:34 <sysrqb> still okay for me
18:30:39 <igt0> sounds good to me
18:30:40 <pospeselr> #same
18:30:44 <GeKo> i guess it's the last time for europeans to do that and i guess we'll see what we do then :)
18:31:23 <GeKo> i'll announce that on tbb-dev later this week then
18:32:04 <GeKo> okay, then the last item i have is our security control redesign we are working on
18:32:32 <GeKo> we need to make a decision on how to proceed
18:32:53 <GeKo> i think there are two general options available right now
18:33:10 <GeKo> 1) which i would call the incrmental approach goes like the following
18:33:56 <GeKo> we take the work we did with the proposal 101 and the design work anto did and implement that now-ish and iterate on that with additional things we want to do
18:34:20 <GeKo> like redoing our medium slider level to work even better/have per-site security settings etc.
18:35:19 <GeKo> 2) we block the plan to implement the improvements we already have figured out until we went down the medium slider rabbit hole and implement everything at once once this is ready
18:35:44 <GeKo> i am leaning to 1) for a number of reasons
18:36:20 <GeKo> a) we spent already quite some work on getting the improvements in the proposal sorted out and doing design work for that
18:36:42 <GeKo> b) we'll have something ready to test and fine-tune by the end of the year latest
18:36:52 <GeKo> (actually i hope by end of next month)
18:37:40 <GeKo> c) just doing 2) seems risky in the sense that we don't know how deep that rabbit hole is
18:38:09 <GeKo> and i don't expect us to have some improvements ready by the end of the year
18:38:23 <GeKo> probably more like some time in q1 2019
18:38:43 <GeKo> EOF
18:38:45 <pili> incremental approach seems good to me as we can do plenty of user testing as we go (hopefully)
18:39:28 <GeKo> oh, i forgot one item: while implementing 1) nothing stops us from starting to think about the rabbit hole
18:39:30 <antonela> yes, im with you on this, we already did a bunch of work and could be cool to have some of it live. What about the suggestions that we are not taking in consideration now? should we write a formal proposal?
18:39:40 <GeKo> in fact it might me smart to start in parallel :)
18:40:18 <GeKo> antonela: well, some document we can reason about is needed i think
18:40:37 <GeKo> which we then can discusson the tbb-dev mailing list
18:41:02 <GeKo> (not on a ticket because we have a bunch of stake holders that might not watch $ticket)
18:41:18 <GeKo> antonela: i like the tor proposal format
18:41:32 <GeKo> but i would not go so far as to require it
18:41:43 <arthuredelstein> I'm OK with the parallel approach! I think I'm more concerned about what me might find in the rabbit hole, but as long as we're iterating that seems OK to me.
18:41:53 <GeKo> so, right now some document works for me at least
18:42:13 <antonela> its cool - as i told you today, i made suggestions because i thought we got the opportunity to work on them and i thought was a good time to do them. If we have a workflow for proposals, seems ok for me
18:42:55 <GeKo> sure, it's fine
18:44:05 <antonela> i hope be in a shape to share a clckeable prototype for next week - my main concern now is the toolbar icon. We cannot go with the shield icon, firefox is using it for the block content feature aka tracking protection and i don't want to make noise on it
18:44:22 <antonela> will continue working on it this week
18:44:24 <GeKo> yeah
18:44:48 <GeKo> fwiw, i tried to add open issues i found while re-reading the comments on the ticket
18:45:09 <antonela> im happy because the control center is exactly what we are using it for, and we can have some specific settings there per-site as you have in the proposal
18:45:11 <antonela> so we are close
18:45:50 <GeKo> those comments are in comment:45 at the end
18:46:03 <GeKo> we might need some designs for those as well
18:46:19 <antonela> yes
18:46:35 <GeKo> antonela: one idea i had was scheduling a meeting next week to nail down the remaining issues?
18:46:46 <GeKo> i mean ux design issues
18:46:49 <antonela> yes, works for me
18:47:04 <antonela> which day works for you? wednesday?
18:47:14 <antonela> or we can take over the release meeting and talk about ux? :)
18:47:15 <GeKo> not on monday, i think but i want to have mcs/brade aronud
18:47:15 <pili> Let me know about it, I may listen in :)
18:47:22 <antonela> oh okey
18:48:08 <GeKo> dunno yet but wed sounds good to me >= 1900 UTC
18:48:46 <GeKo> okay, sounds we are good here
18:48:51 <antonela> yep, thanks
18:48:59 <GeKo> do we have anything else for discussion today?
18:50:06 <antonela> im groot -- if there is an .apk i can install in my androids, igt0 sysrqb let me know :)
18:51:08 <GeKo> okay, i am calling it then. thanks everyone and a happy week working on improving tor browser *baf*
18:51:11 <GeKo> #endmeeting