16:59:09 <nickm> #startmeeting network team meeting, 24 Sep
16:59:09 <MeetBot> Meeting started Mon Sep 24 16:59:09 2018 UTC.  The chair is nickm. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
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16:59:38 <nickm> hi folks!  I came really close to opening this as the "entwork team" meeting, so it may be that my brain is fried
16:59:43 <dgoulet> yello
17:00:07 <nickm> meeting starts on saturday; this week is probably going to be odds and ends and getting ready for that
17:00:31 <nickm> https://pad.riseup.net/p/tor-netteam-2018.1-keep is the pad
17:00:57 <ahf> hey
17:01:02 <nickm> So, welcome everybody!
17:01:09 <isabela> !
17:01:12 <nickm> I think we might have gaba here today too?
17:02:24 <nickm> I think we should skip our roadmap review this monday, since we're going over it all on Saturday
17:03:18 <isabela> nickm: sounds good
17:03:36 * dgoulet has one discussion item
17:03:41 <nickm> do we have reviewer assignments this week?
17:03:43 <isabela> nickm: on discussion part we should talk about prep work for roadmapping in mexico
17:03:48 <nickm> sure
17:03:54 <nickm> let's get there first though...
17:03:59 <isabela> k
17:04:06 <dgoulet> see pad for me
17:04:20 <dgoulet> basically, do we want review assignement this week?
17:04:58 <ahf> i think so?
17:05:06 <nickm> Hm. we have 10 tickets in needs_review for 0.3.5, so I think we should review them if we can
17:05:07 <gaba> Hi! I'm here :)
17:05:15 <nickm> welcome!
17:05:17 <isabela> gaba: o/
17:05:24 <dgoulet> ok so I agree also, we'll assign only 035 for this week
17:05:25 <ahf> hi gaba, welcome!
17:05:25 <dgoulet> thx
17:06:18 <nickm> anext is rotations: dgoulet =triage, nickm =community, ahf =meetings, catalyst=CI+Coverity
17:06:21 <nickm> *next
17:06:44 <gaba> thanks
17:06:51 <ahf> maybe for meetings this week there is some stuff that needs to be planned for mexico that might only need one person looking at it?
17:06:51 <nickm> I expect that since everybody's travelling this week, we're all going to do kind of a perfunctory job with some of this stuff, but let's at least check into the stuff we're supposed to be looking at
17:07:25 <nickm> ahf: maybe!  let's get together to look at our team's mexico schedule too.
17:07:32 <isabela> +1
17:07:48 <ahf> ye
17:08:51 <isabela> this one
17:08:52 <isabela> "network team Improving our process -- capacity estimation?
17:09:09 <nickm> what about it?
17:09:37 <isabela> i am not sure if folks want to do it and wanted to check w/ the team (but i know not everyone is here now)
17:09:54 <isabela> so i would suggest that it could start with a discussion if the team want to try it again or not
17:10:02 <isabela> instead of jumping straight to it
17:10:02 <isabela> ?
17:10:17 <nickm> what is the "it" wer're talking about here?
17:10:20 <nickm> *we're
17:10:26 <gaba> I can facilitate a discussion on how to approach capacity estimation
17:10:28 <isabela> capacity estimation discussion
17:10:39 <gaba> if the team is going to try that
17:11:01 <nickm> I'd like to go into each roadmap with a reasonable confidence we're actually able to do what we plan
17:11:47 <nickm> I think capacity estimation is supposed to help w that?
17:11:52 <nickm> what do others think?
17:12:09 <isabela> it is :)
17:12:24 <isabela> also helps with time manage for individuals
17:13:13 <ahf> what is the goals of that discussion? if we know we need to hire more people or how we allocate the capacity we have?
17:13:41 <isabela> ahf: we would use points for tickets
17:13:44 <isabela> we did a while back
17:13:51 <isabela> but we didnt actually follow up with it
17:13:54 <ahf> because maybe we'd need some kind of idea about what sponsors that is available for us the next 6 months if are to do that?
17:13:57 <ahf> ah, ok
17:14:00 <ahf> cool!
17:14:02 <isabela> and define how many points one can take per week or something
17:14:07 <ahf> yes, makes sense
17:14:10 <isabela> so you dont over commit
17:15:19 <nickm> We've got some stuff to do to figure out how to make it work for us, if we're going to try doing it like that.
17:15:30 <nickm> But it doesn't seem impossible by me
17:15:42 <isabela> yep
17:15:43 <isabela> ok
17:15:48 <isabela> lets keep it as it is :)
17:15:53 <isabela> and gaba can facilitate it
17:16:01 <isabela> should be a good discussion
17:16:04 <nickm> anybody else w thoughts here? I know points weren't exactly popular last time, but maybe we can try to figure out how to make it work
17:16:49 <nickm> ok. let's talk more on Saturday
17:17:08 <isabela> k
17:17:16 <dgoulet> I have my doubts about the point system but I also have no other ideas so who knows :)
17:17:23 <isabela> hehe
17:17:55 <isabela> the main point of failure was me on the points system because you kind of need to review it with the team after the week is over
17:17:59 <isabela> and there was none of that
17:18:11 <isabela> but now our weekly meetings are better structured
17:18:26 <nickm> other discussion stuff: Could everybody take a look at the tickets with Milestone==0.3.5.x-final, and please defer the features that would have been yours, but you are NOT doing for 0.3.5?  This includes stuff assigned to you and stuff that is not assigned but which is related to other fetaures that were assigned.
17:18:43 <ahf> yep
17:18:55 <nickm> My workflow is very milestone driven, and it's hard to work with the milestone when there's stuff that doesn't belong there
17:19:02 <dgoulet> ++ ^
17:19:16 <dgoulet> same here, clean 035 list of tickets before merge window opens would be _grand_
17:21:01 <nickm> People with currently assigned/accepted tickets are dgoulet, ahf, catalyst, teor4
17:21:13 <nickm> plus all the tickets in new and needs_info and needs_revision
17:21:41 <nickm> next thing to do is talk about our mexico city sessions
17:21:53 <nickm> About whether there are missing/extraneous sessions
17:22:24 <nickm> My only thing is that I'd like to make sure we get some more rust stuff done while alex is with is on the 29th/30th...
17:22:44 <nickm> ...and I'd like to close the 29th with a short "what did we not talk about today that still must happen at this meeting" 15-30 min session
17:22:47 <nickm> anything else
17:22:50 <nickm> ?
17:23:22 <isabela> we should do some prep wrok for roadmap (like collect tickets)
17:23:24 <isabela> *work
17:23:33 <nickm> yes
17:23:48 <nickm> and enumerate funded tasks
17:24:22 <nickm> isabela: is this a you-and-me thing? a you-me-and-gaba thing?
17:24:24 <isabela> looks like mike cant join irc
17:24:26 <nickm> & when do we do it?
17:24:39 <isabela> nickm: might have to be you and gaba
17:24:45 <isabela> i need to finish a deadline and study for my test
17:24:58 <isabela> i would say to share a pad w/ folks on the list
17:25:12 <isabela> maybe organize it by sponsor
17:25:15 <nickm> gaba: ok. can you and arma remind us where to look to make sure we get all the funded deliverables listed?  After that I think we can do
17:25:18 <dgoulet> there might be a situation where you'll have to auto assign me to Roadmap tasks since I won't be there which is fine with me :). I can also IRC/Signal or what not during that session if needed
17:25:19 <ahf> how should we do the prep part of that? in our spreadsheet?
17:25:44 <isabela> dgoulet: !
17:25:49 <isabela> true
17:26:02 <nickm> https://pad.riseup.net/p/tor-nt-roadmap-prep-keep
17:26:06 <ahf> dgoulet: we can jitsi/hangout with you for that if you want?
17:26:14 <isabela> nickm: i can help w/ deliverables too
17:26:19 <isabela> like just put it on the pad?
17:26:41 <nickm> sure
17:27:35 <isabela> ok but i might do it later tho
17:27:46 <nickm> do folks agree with me about rust and next-steps times on Saturday?
17:27:54 <ahf> yeah
17:27:57 <nickm> isabela: sure; let me and gaba know when you're done
17:28:04 <isabela> k
17:28:29 <ahf> it's nice alex is coming again, i was very uncertain if he felt his time was well spend last time or if we talked too much non-rust. glad he is coming back
17:28:33 <nickm> one additional issue with Saturday to plan for: My plane will be arriving in Mexico City that day at 5am, so I might be a little sleepy
17:28:35 <ahf> he helped asn and i a lot.
17:28:50 <nickm> ahf: we should make sure that he feels it's well spent this time too
17:28:57 <ahf> yes, i agree
17:29:06 <ahf> i have a ton of possibly stupid questions for him after this weekend already
17:29:22 <nickm> I suggest we invite him to all our stuff on Saturday, if he's interested
17:29:29 <ahf> yep
17:29:38 <nickm> who can revise the saturday schedule to include rust time?
17:29:50 <ahf> isn't this what chelsea is doing a bit of on the mailing list?
17:29:52 <nickm> and do we have rust time on Sunday morning/early afternoon?
17:30:05 <nickm> ahf: maybe; I'm not sure
17:30:13 <isabela> i think so
17:30:44 <nickm> ok
17:31:16 * catalyst will look over Rust-related scheduling a bit
17:31:19 <nickm> Can somebody let Alex know he's invited to all our network-team stuff on saturday from 11am on, b/c we value his input?
17:32:10 <nickm> nm, I should do that
17:34:05 <isabela> fyi gaba lost irc but is on the pad
17:34:11 <nickm> ok
17:34:18 <nickm> what else do we have for today?
17:34:27 <ahf> should we try to do a team dinner one of the evenings where gaba is around too?
17:34:50 * catalyst has a Rust discussion item but the most relevant people probably aren't here now
17:35:11 <isabela> ahf: !
17:35:46 <ahf> !
17:35:50 <nickm> catalyst: yeah, I don't have a great sense there either. If the review is stalled I  think it's fine for now to say "let's talk about it when we're colocated"
17:36:13 <nickm> I am +1 on a team dinner assuming a) isa says we should, and b) I don't have to do the planning :)
17:36:21 <isabela> hehe
17:36:23 <isabela> why me?
17:36:23 <isabela> :P
17:36:30 <nickm> incoming ed :)
17:36:33 <isabela> lol
17:36:36 <ahf> :-D
17:36:44 <isabela> yes, yall should eat and enjoy your time together!
17:36:45 <isabela> :P
17:36:45 <catalyst> re Rust session scheduling, komlo suggested moving the Rust linking session to 14:00 so Alex Crichton is more likely to be able to make it
17:37:03 <ahf> i think we didn't do it in rome? but i think when we have new people on the team we should try to get something scheduled this time
17:37:16 <ahf> isabela: cool!
17:37:28 <ahf> i'll try to figure out something and talk with jon too about it
17:37:33 * isabela points to ahf for trying to organize something with jon's help maybe?
17:37:36 <isabela> aha!
17:37:38 <isabela> lol
17:37:41 <ahf> and will write an email with some doodle to the network team list
17:37:54 <ahf> isabela: gaba has been added to that list, right?
17:37:58 <isabela> yes
17:38:01 <ahf> great
17:38:53 <nickm> okay. So I've got these followup things between now and mexico:
17:39:13 <nickm> #action nickm and gaba use a list of deliverables (from isabela) to fill out that roadmapping pad
17:39:28 <nickm> #action nickm and gaba meet up to chat about mexico city stuff before we fly out
17:39:47 <nickm> #action nickm and ahf look over meeting schedule for mexico city between now and wednesday
17:40:02 <gaba> sorry about that! the irssi crashed and i didn't have it automatically join oftc again :/
17:40:17 <nickm> #action komlo revises meeting wiki; if komlo runs out of time, ahf makes sure it happens
17:40:32 <nickm> That's what I have from above; am I missing stuff?
17:40:35 <nickm> of course
17:40:41 <ahf> sounds good
17:40:44 <isabela> #action ahf will look into team dinner
17:40:46 <isabela> :P
17:40:50 <ahf> gaba: i can help you with your irssi in mexico!
17:40:51 <nickm> #action dgoulet talks with nickm and/or gaba about deliverable preferences
17:40:56 <ahf> isabela: :-D
17:40:57 <dgoulet> o/
17:41:08 <gaba> thanks ahf, i had it working but forgot to add it to the config
17:41:16 <nickm> #action everybody tries to get some extra rest in advance of the meeting
17:41:33 <ahf> :-)
17:41:44 <nickm> and I think that's all I remember from above; what did I forget?
17:42:06 <isabela> catalyst is looking into the rust stuff too no?
17:43:39 <nickm> sorry, which rust stuff?
17:43:47 <catalyst> i just updated moved the session on the wiki
17:43:54 <ahf> the rust session schedules
17:44:10 <nickm> oh cool
17:44:34 <nickm> #action catalyst also looks at rust session schedules gets them moved to when Alex is around
17:44:42 <isabela> cool!
17:44:47 <nickm> I don't know whether it's komlo, catalyst, or ahf on this, but I hope somebody can do it :)
17:44:53 <nickm> any more for this week?
17:44:55 <isabela> hehe
17:44:55 * catalyst literally just did it
17:44:58 <isabela> yep
17:45:03 <ahf> thanks catalyst
17:45:28 <nickm> woo
17:45:29 <catalyst> at least according to the best information i have about Alex's availability
17:45:51 <nickm> (who is on revising the Saturday schedule?  Is that ahf?)
17:46:23 <ahf> what is missing now if the rust parts have been shuffled around?
17:46:57 <catalyst> there seems to be only one Rust session and i already moved it
17:47:27 <catalyst> ahf: typo on your name for the mobile tor integration session?
17:47:29 <nickm> IMO we should include Rust in our refactoring-and-other-plans session, and/or make sure we have Rust content on Saturday
17:47:42 <nickm> And we should end saturday with a "let's add more sessions" session
17:47:51 <ahf> nickm: ok
17:48:47 <ahf> catalyst: hm, looks like it, yeah
17:49:08 <nickm> Sounds like we're out of other stuff for this week's meeting?
17:49:27 <ahf> nickm: ok
17:49:46 <ahf> is employee feedback sessions something we need to prepare something for, is it in groups/teams or is it like our 1:1's?
17:49:58 <nickm> if so, I'll be around through the week, and see everybody (except isa and dgoulet :( )  on Saturday!
17:50:01 <ahf> i only see one hour allocated for it
17:50:05 <isabela> ahf: there is a presentation from Erin
17:50:09 <ahf> ah, cool
17:50:17 <ahf> i think i remember seeing an email about this, cool
17:50:24 <isabela> but yeah - yall should try to organize 1:1s too
17:50:29 <isabela> or 1:1:1 w/ nick and gaba
17:50:54 <gaba> nick: let's talk about it this week when we meet before mexico (the 1:1:1)
17:51:10 <ahf> isabela: yeah
17:51:22 <nickm> indeed
17:51:38 <nickm> okay, let's make sure we all get enough rest this week.  Peace, all!
17:51:40 <nickm> #endmeeting