17:58:56 <GeKo> #startmeeting tor browser
17:58:56 <MeetBot> Meeting started Tue Jul  3 17:58:56 2018 UTC.  The chair is GeKo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:58:56 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
17:59:08 <GeKo> hello everyone!
17:59:13 <igt0> !!
17:59:13 <pospeselr> hello!
17:59:29 <mcs> hi
17:59:35 <GeKo> i know we all miss our monday meetings but we'll get to them again soon i guess
17:59:53 <GeKo> the pad as usual: https://storm.torproject.org/shared/tHoN4Ii7rLSjPE0OP4gydX4cMGadsXmRQNc-6lwru0N
17:59:58 <boklm> hi!
18:00:08 <GeKo> please enter your stuff if not done yet and makr things to discuss bold
18:00:45 <arthuredelstein> hi everybody!
18:02:33 <sukhe> hi!
18:02:44 <GeKo> pospeselr: i guess #26450 could be another rabbit holw
18:02:48 <GeKo> *hole
18:02:55 <GeKo> please don't spend that much time on it
18:03:01 <pospeselr> could be, but i'm a bit smarter this time around
18:03:10 <GeKo> hah
18:03:13 <pospeselr> i looked at it a bit yesterday, and have a few promising leads
18:03:18 <GeKo> kk
18:03:27 <sisbell> hello
18:03:44 <pospeselr> we could *maybe* modify xmlhttprequest to take a system principal in JS, as the 'correct' one with the right first party domain exists
18:03:50 <GeKo> otherwise , just picking up fingerprinting tickets mcs filed yesterday is the way to go
18:03:53 <pospeselr> and is accessible
18:03:58 <pospeselr> aye aye captain :)
18:04:06 <GeKo> those are tagged with ff60-esr, tbb-fingerprinting and marked as prio "high"
18:04:09 <GeKo> :)
18:04:46 <GeKo> mcs: what are we doing about those intermittent update failures?
18:04:54 <GeKo> that's only affecting win64, right?
18:06:07 <mcs> GeKo: Yes,Win64 only as far as I know. I think we need to investigate more.
18:06:41 <mcs> Maybe we can try to reproduce with an ESR60-based updater.
18:06:58 <mcs> (if it happens with ESR60, it might make sense to focus on fixing it there)
18:07:02 <GeKo> should we wait until we have the esr60-esr60 update?
18:07:15 <GeKo> i.e. the next alpha out?
18:07:37 <mcs> Maybe, although brade and I can set up an “in the lab” update experiment with our own Windows build.
18:07:50 <mcs> When is the next alpha release?
18:07:58 <GeKo> not decided yet
18:08:06 <GeKo> but i guess end of july does make sense
18:08:27 <GeKo> like in week 30
18:08:42 <GeKo> which means 3 weeks from now
18:09:14 <mcs> OK. We will see if we can do something before then. I don’t like intermittent signature verification failures.
18:09:25 <GeKo> yes, indeed
18:09:31 <GeKo> thanks
18:09:45 <mcs> np
18:09:50 <GeKo> mcs: what's the plan with #26381?
18:10:11 <GeKo> i assume you did not drop this by accident from the "soon" things :)
18:10:38 <mcs> Actually, that was an accident. Sorry!
18:10:39 * pospeselr brb
18:10:57 <mcs> I think your suggestion is a good one: try to produce a smaller test case. I’d also be happy to give that bug over to someone who is good at debugging on Windows *cough*
18:11:18 <mcs> (looks like pospeselr left just in time)
18:12:22 <GeKo> hah
18:13:04 <GeKo> igt0: sysrqb: we should sync about our mobile plans and where we are
18:13:16 <GeKo> i guess we can do that ofter the meeting in the other one
18:13:34 <sysrqb> yeah
18:13:35 <GeKo> just that we are on the same page for the release and what we should focus on
18:13:45 <igt0> +1
18:14:14 <GeKo> good.
18:14:28 <GeKo> arthuredelstein: how is it going with the performance patches?
18:14:47 <GeKo> i am worried  that we don't have enough time to look at all the new fingerprinting things
18:15:11 <sisbell> I'm largely up to speed on builds so I'll need to get an idea of how I can help on the mobile side
18:15:27 <GeKo> great!
18:15:27 <arthuredelstein> GeKo: Optimistic SOCKS is tough. I'm hoping to get some help from someone on the mozilla side this week
18:15:30 * pospeselr back
18:15:52 <GeKo> arthuredelstein: yeah, that's what i assumed. please don't burn your time on that one
18:16:07 <GeKo> it's the first i'd postpone even if it hurts
18:16:16 <arthuredelstein> I am more optimistic about http2 actually. but I agree fp is important too
18:16:41 <arthuredelstein> rfp
18:16:46 <GeKo> yep
18:16:59 <GeKo> so, in doubt http2 and fp things
18:17:15 <GeKo> and we hope mozilla can help us with the optimistic socks one somehow
18:18:02 <arthuredelstein> right. For optimistic socks I will focus on asking questions rather than beating my head against the wall :P
18:18:14 <GeKo> :)
18:18:34 <GeKo> sisbell: so, how is it going with the reproducible builds?
18:18:50 <GeKo> have you started integrating the mobile part?
18:19:05 <sisbell> I've got various versions of the build working
18:19:17 <sisbell> But I'm not sure what I need to be integrating
18:19:43 <GeKo> okay.
18:20:33 <sisbell> I think I'll need to get a few specific tasks defined to get started
18:21:44 <GeKo> so, right now we want to have tor-browser-build set up in a way that we get a mobile browser artefact as output
18:22:12 <GeKo> for instance, if you just want to build the browser part for macOS you could run
18:22:22 <GeKo> rbm/rbm build firefox --target alpha --target torbrowser-osx-x86_64
18:22:58 <GeKo> and then the system would at the end give you the compiled firefox for macOS which you could pick up and e.g. bundle
18:23:09 <GeKo> we want to have this for android as well
18:23:39 <GeKo> we can chat about that later on in tor-dev to get the details and questions sorted out
18:23:47 <GeKo> i guess boklm can help here as welll
18:23:50 <GeKo> *well
18:23:57 <GeKo> but that's the goal for now at least
18:24:04 <boklm> yes
18:24:05 <GeKo> sysrqb: you had an item!
18:24:07 <sukhe> sisbell: a good way to start with rbm is to look at the existing code for the projects
18:24:12 <sukhe> (that's how I did it :)
18:24:55 <sysrqb> GeKo: yes! there is an undocumented Windows API for creating a container
18:25:05 <sysrqb> and i don't know if it requires adin privileges :)
18:25:13 <boklm> I assume the first task will be to make a list of all the components we need to build to get an android tor browser built, and then start integrating them one by one into tor-browser-build
18:25:27 <sisbell> Geko: I'll take a look and ping the tor-mobile list with any questions
18:25:37 <sysrqb> there's a test written in go we can use and find out if it needs any permissions
18:26:10 <sysrqb> if someone has a machine they can test on, that will help us (and tor) in terms of what sandboxing is available on Windows 10
18:26:41 <sysrqb> sisbell: tor-dev is better
18:26:52 <GeKo> okay, i only have win7 and win8...
18:26:57 <sysrqb> sisbell: i'd prefer keeping all our development discussions out of tor-mobile
18:27:06 <GeKo> or probably tbb-dev
18:27:15 <sysrqb> is there a tbb-dev?
18:27:21 <GeKo> (if you are talking about mail)
18:27:27 <sysrqb> ah, yes
18:27:29 <sysrqb> mail :)
18:27:44 <sysrqb> #tor-dev or tbb-dev@
18:27:45 <GeKo> i think i got confused because sisbell talked about a list
18:27:55 <GeKo> but, yeah
18:28:07 <sysrqb> yeah
18:28:12 <arthuredelstein> Wait, so #tor-mobile is OK for development dicussion, right?
18:28:13 <sysrqb> i see
18:28:36 <sysrqb> i prefer keeping discussions in #tor-dev if it's related to tor browser
18:28:39 <sysrqb> even on android
18:28:56 <sysrqb> i don't want to isolate tor browser mobil development from everyone else
18:29:05 <sisbell> ok np, I'll ask on #tor-dev
18:29:19 <arthuredelstein> Makes sense. Maybe we should change the channel description then
18:29:20 <sysrqb> if #tor-dev gets crowded, then we can move, of course
18:29:34 <sysrqb> that's ownd by n8fr8
18:29:38 <sysrqb> owned
18:29:44 <sysrqb> but we can change it, yeah
18:30:15 <GeKo> do we  have anything else before moving on to discussions?
18:31:14 <GeKo> okay, first item mexico meeting
18:31:44 <GeKo> i think arriving on 27th is smart given that we wanted to have some pre-metting tor browser thing
18:31:53 <GeKo> *meeting
18:32:11 <GeKo> i am not sure if it's worth the effort but we'll see this time
18:32:24 <GeKo> if it does not make sense to have yet another day with extra meetings
18:32:51 <GeKo> then we'll do something else next time
18:32:55 <mcs> I see more people added to the wiki page, so I feel better about purchasing plane tickets to arrive on the 27th :)
18:33:27 <GeKo> yeah, i think that#s a good plan :)
18:33:33 <mcs> OK; thx
18:33:43 <sisbell> Arrive anytime on 27th for meetings on 28th?
18:33:46 <sukhe> so that means the meeting will be on 28th?
18:34:33 <GeKo> a while ago, after the rome meeting to be more precise, we had thought to try the thing the network team did in rome
18:34:49 <GeKo> to have a day to think about tor browser and what we want to do with it in the coming months
18:35:11 <GeKo> because i had the feeling that it was almost too much stuff on the actual team meeting day
18:35:45 <GeKo> as there was so much things to coordinate between different teams already
18:35:56 <GeKo> s/much/many/
18:36:26 <GeKo> and that day will be the 28th as the team meetings will start on 29th
18:36:36 <GeKo> sisbell: that would be good, yes
18:37:34 <GeKo> okay, while talking about meetings
18:37:52 <GeKo> i finally plan to take a week off to recover from the past weeks
18:38:10 <GeKo> i plan to be offline starting next monday and i'll be back on 16th
18:38:21 <GeKo> basically to the tor browser meeting
18:38:43 <GeKo> so, you the remaining tor browser team wants to have a sync next week
18:38:48 <GeKo> please organize it
18:38:49 <mcs> GeKo: enjoy your time off!
18:38:56 <GeKo> otherwise we'll see us on the 16th
18:39:00 <GeKo> mcs: thx!
18:39:15 <GeKo> will do. no computer but books, yay!
18:39:27 <pospeselr> perfect :)
18:39:34 <sukhe> nice
18:39:38 <mcs> everyone but GeKo: should we meet to sync up next week or skip it?
18:40:17 <sukhe> we can just update the pad if we don't have to meet
18:40:33 <sysrqb> that's a good compromise
18:40:54 <sysrqb> unles there's something that needs discussioning as a group
18:40:59 <mcs> Sounds good to me.
18:41:02 <sysrqb> but that could be best-effort
18:41:18 <boklm> sounds good.
18:41:24 <mcs> ping on IRC or via email if we need to “huddle”
18:42:06 <pospeselr> sounds good to me
18:42:07 <GeKo> great
18:42:27 <GeKo> so, the final item i have: organizing a sandboxing meeting on irc
18:42:45 <GeKo> i saw that sysrqb sent his lengthy mail to tbb-dev, great!
18:42:51 <GeKo> sysrqb: thanks for the work on that
18:43:14 <GeKo> i like us to meet at some point soon to discuss it and make some decisions on how to move on
18:43:31 <GeKo> i suspect it will be too tight to do this this week
18:43:39 <GeKo> and i'll be away next week
18:43:44 <sysrqb> that was my thought, to
18:43:47 <sysrqb> o
18:43:54 <GeKo> but we should chat about it in the week thereafter
18:44:31 <sysrqb> that sounds good
18:44:32 <GeKo> i hope we can have some mozilla folks attending as well
18:44:46 <GeKo> i guess tjr could ask around
18:45:14 <GeKo> sysrqb: do you think you could nail down a data and time for the meeting during the next week?
18:45:18 <GeKo> *date
18:45:29 <sysrqb> yes, i can coordinate that
18:45:35 <GeKo> good
18:45:39 <GeKo> thanks
18:45:56 <GeKo> my original plan was once we have the date and time to reply to the thread on tor-dev
18:46:17 <GeKo> about sanboxed tor browser to announce the meeting there
18:46:31 <GeKo> that might make sure we get a bunch of community input as well
18:46:40 <sysrqb> that's a good idea
18:46:44 <GeKo> especially if we log the meeting and put the notes on the thread, too
18:46:46 <sysrqb> should i do that?
18:47:08 <sysrqb> or should we wait until the following week when you return?
18:47:22 <GeKo> yeah, i guess so as this might give an earlier heads-up to folks
18:47:30 <GeKo> (please do :) )
18:47:35 <sysrqb> okay :)
18:47:47 <GeKo> exciting
18:47:58 <GeKo> that's all i had.
18:48:07 <GeKo> do we have anything else for today?
18:49:25 <GeKo> hearing the usual crickets *baf*
18:49:27 <GeKo> thanks all!
18:49:31 <GeKo> #endmeeting