20:04:06 <flexlibris> #startmeeting
20:04:06 <MeetBot> Meeting started Wed Apr 18 20:04:06 2018 UTC.  The chair is flexlibris. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:04:06 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
20:04:35 <flexlibris> sukhe kat5 either of you have an update?
20:04:53 <sukhe> I can go first, very quick update
20:04:57 <flexlibris> go ahead
20:05:06 * ilv is lurking (in another meeting atm)
20:05:57 <sukhe> there is an update regarding Toronto Public Library Tor Browser pilot but I am not sure what all is public yet so I will wait for further information
20:06:14 <flexlibris> :)
20:07:15 <arma4> oh hey community team mtg
20:07:25 <flexlibris> hey arma4
20:07:29 <sukhe> also, Toronto has two events coming up, RightsCon and then Citizen Lab Summer Institute. stephw has been leading the RightsCon thing so she should have more information
20:07:29 <flexlibris> sukhe did you have more or is that it?
20:07:43 <flexlibris> sorry for interrupting!
20:07:48 <sukhe> for Citizen Lab Summer Institute, I will be there so will be good to coordinate for that as well
20:07:58 <sukhe> np!
20:08:05 <sukhe> that's it from me
20:08:10 <arma4> sukhe: what's the deadline for signing up to the citizen lab thing?
20:08:22 <arma4> we should try to get some tor people to go
20:08:27 <arma4> (usually it's just the ooni folks)
20:08:27 <sukhe> arma4: it was March 30
20:08:29 <arma4> whoops
20:08:36 <kat5> arma4: My understanding is that it's an application, not just signing up.
20:08:41 <arma4> kat5: right
20:08:52 <sukhe> yeah I realized I should have been more vocal but there were Tor people last year (OONI mostly, and ilv)
20:09:05 * arma4 adds "make a calendar of future community deadlines" to somebody's pad or todo list or something
20:09:18 <sukhe> I should have asked before I guess and not assumed
20:09:26 * sukhe notes this for the future
20:09:43 <flexlibris> I didn't even know about it!
20:09:48 <t0mmy> flexlibris hi, sorry I'm glate
20:09:52 <t0mmy> er, late
20:09:52 <flexlibris> t0mmy hi!
20:10:17 <sukhe> sorry :( and yes it was an application, with basic questions on what you will contribute and all
20:10:29 <sukhe> maybe we should find a way to coordinate for future events
20:10:40 <sysrqb> do they usually accept "everyone" or is it limited?
20:10:52 <arma4> sukhe: maybe we re-use the blog event calendar as a start?
20:11:00 <sysrqb> (everyone being all the reasonable applicants)
20:11:07 <arma4> sysrqb: in the past you had to write like a page about what you're doing in the space
20:11:11 <sukhe> sysrqb: I am not sure but last year they had 76 peple attending
20:11:20 <arma4> so it's a proof of work, at the least
20:11:20 <sysrqb> okay
20:11:46 <arma4> it is possible that we could still squeak some people in, this year. they like tor at least in theory. "we screwed up and missed your deadline but here we are" could be made to work.
20:11:51 <sukhe> arma4: so do you mean just adding the events to the blog in general?
20:12:03 <arma4> sukhe: adding both the event and also the event's deadline. so two "events".
20:12:18 <sukhe> right ok, that seems like a good idea
20:12:32 <arma4> it's an easy hack until somebody produces a better one
20:12:52 * arma4 stops talking to he doesn't accidentally produce half the lines in the mtg
20:13:03 <flexlibris> your lines are welcome arma4
20:13:13 <flexlibris> I'm thinking about this as something for community.torproject.org
20:13:19 <flexlibris> we have talked about having a community calendar there
20:13:30 * flexlibris adds it to the list of stuff that will go on that site
20:13:47 <sukhe> I am also not proposing a session yet for Citizen Lab but just attending it, mostly to learn. if they ask for a session later, we can plan something
20:13:54 <sysrqb> +1 for community.tpo
20:14:37 <arma4> community calendar would be awesome. sticking stuff on the blog is nice and all but not a real fix.
20:14:42 <flexlibris> yeah
20:15:00 <flexlibris> ideally we have some kind of setup that can accept outside contributions
20:15:01 * dmr would love a community calendar
20:15:02 <flexlibris> with some light moderation
20:15:12 <flexlibris> awesome
20:15:15 <sysrqb> yeah
20:15:38 * ggus arrives.
20:15:41 <ggus> hi!
20:15:45 <flexlibris> hi ggus!
20:15:47 <sysrqb> hi!
20:16:03 <flexlibris> speaking of community.tpo
20:16:07 <sysrqb> if i'm not interrupting, flexlibris any news about HOPE?
20:16:34 <flexlibris> something I have not had any time for but need to do soon is make our roadmap for the next six months. so if you want to help me with that let me know. coming up with a gameplan for community.tpo with the UX team is part of it.
20:16:37 <flexlibris> sysrqb: nathan
20:16:43 <flexlibris> which means nothing
20:16:59 <sysrqb> flexlibris: k, figured :) :/
20:17:09 <flexlibris> is that normal for HOPE?
20:17:12 <flexlibris> I've never submitted before
20:17:30 <sysrqb> dunno, same. maybe asn or dgoulet or gman999 know from their submissions (?)
20:17:39 <flexlibris> yeah maybe
20:17:57 <flexlibris> I tried to follow up and got an autoresponse weeks ago
20:17:58 <flexlibris> so
20:18:02 <sysrqb> eh.
20:18:05 <sysrqb> you can only do so much
20:18:13 * flexlibris breathes a sigh of relief
20:18:15 <flexlibris> :)
20:18:16 <sysrqb> if they drag their feet, so be it
20:18:20 <flexlibris> okay anyone else have an update?
20:18:29 <arma4> flexlibris: oh, speaking of deadlines. the defcon talk deadline is coming up.
20:18:34 <flexlibris> arma4: yes!
20:18:56 <ggus> I have one: a lot of tor talks happening in cryptorave + isabela keynote
20:19:07 <sysrqb> (yay!)
20:19:13 <flexlibris> arma4: I know that Steph is planning to attend, and she was looking into booth space
20:19:19 <flexlibris> but I don't know if there's anyone who wants to give a talk
20:19:24 <flexlibris> I can ask around though if you don't know of anyone
20:19:28 <flexlibris> and ggus yes please go ahead
20:20:29 <ggus> the schedule is almost done/public. I'll send to the list all the tor talks/workshops, so we can publish in the blog and in the calendar
20:20:36 <arma4> flexlibris: i connected steph to straithe, who is helping with the cryptovillage. i hope they succeed at making good plans. they could probably use some help.
20:20:47 <flexlibris> arma4: okay I'll follow up with her
20:20:59 <arma4> flexlibris: (the idea is that we occupy the cryptovillage post 5pm on some of the days, since they were just planning to close up shop and go drinking or something)
20:20:59 <kat5> straithe is awesome.
20:21:01 <stephw> yes, would appreciate some help with planning thanks! just originally had a booth in mind
20:21:17 <flexlibris> stephw I'll follow up with you :D
20:21:23 <flexlibris> ggus: that's awesome
20:21:29 <flexlibris> can't wait to see the Tor talks
20:22:49 * Samdney arrives. (sorry I forgot the new time)
20:22:59 <ggus> so, because cryptorave, i'm very away from the mailing lists. i'll try to read the emails this weekend. (end)
20:23:10 <flexlibris> understandable ggus :)
20:23:15 <flexlibris> good luck with planning
20:23:19 <flexlibris> anything we can help with?
20:23:27 <kat5> I can go next.
20:23:51 <flexlibris> go ahead kat5
20:24:13 <kat5> We successfully sent our first swag to a nominated volunteer. So that's great.
20:24:21 <flexlibris> yesss
20:24:53 <kat5> But that's the only nomination we've had, so the teams are probably not actually trying very hard to think of anyone.
20:25:04 <flexlibris> kat5: was it the one that came from us?
20:25:17 <flexlibris> maybe we can send a reminder to tor-project@ or tor-team@
20:25:22 <ggus> ps: if you curious of where isa and others are going to talk in cryptorave, this is the place -> http://cinemateca.gov.br/pagina/espacos
20:25:34 <kat5> I'm thinking about what to do about that, but am about to be away for ~10 days, so I probably won't do anything until May.
20:26:03 <flexlibris> ggus: this looks like a great space
20:26:07 <kat5> flexlibris: yes. It was to sukhe's contact at the Toronto Public Library.
20:26:12 <flexlibris> kat5: !!
20:26:17 <flexlibris> oh but didn't we also nominate nusenu?
20:26:28 <kat5> I never heard anything from you about that.
20:26:30 <flexlibris> kat5: Jonathon Hodge is also highly deserving so I'm glad he got it
20:26:42 <flexlibris> oh sorry, do I need to send an email to you?
20:27:21 <arma4> kat5: the network team made a secret pad to discuss it, so they didn't have to discuss it in front of volunteers. then i added a bunch of names to it. and i guess nothing happened. so close!
20:27:33 <kat5> You need to tell them to contact tshirt@ and  tell me that you did so.
20:27:41 <flexlibris> okay will do
20:27:47 <kat5> Then we  go from there.
20:27:58 <kat5> arma4: great!
20:28:04 * flexlibris is on it
20:28:49 <flexlibris> anyone else have an update?
20:28:56 <ainslie> Yes.
20:29:08 <flexlibris> ainslie: go ahead
20:29:22 <ainslie> I submitted ethics forms to the ethics research board for the term paper I'd like to do. Its been accepted as-is aside from the fact that I forgot about responsible disclosure.
20:29:41 <ainslie> It seems that the mailing list set up for responsible disclosure no longer exists.
20:29:49 <ainslie> https://www.torproject.org/about/contact.html.en#security
20:29:59 <ainslie> https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-security
20:30:09 <ainslie> It should be set up again.
20:30:10 <flexlibris> hmm really
20:30:15 <flexlibris> arma4 do you know what happened?
20:30:37 <kat5> I think it's a private list.
20:30:49 <kat5> So that stuff people send isn't public.
20:30:58 <flexlibris> kat5: it's listed here to be able to contact with their GPG key
20:31:20 <kat5> Yeah. There's no mailman page because it's just meant to receive vuln reports.
20:31:31 <kat5> There are a handful of Tor people on it.
20:31:36 <kat5> That was my undrstanding.
20:31:52 <arma4> that list works.
20:31:56 <arma4> i tested it last night.
20:32:02 <flexlibris> ainslie what happened when you contacted it?
20:32:16 <ainslie> Okay. I thought that the mailing list didn't exist or it had been deleted.
20:32:27 <flexlibris> oh, I'm misunderstanding then
20:32:33 <flexlibris> I thought you tried to reach them and it bounced or something
20:32:42 <ainslie> No.
20:32:47 <flexlibris> ah ok
20:33:02 <arma4> it's actually not a mailman list, it's some schleuder monstrosity
20:33:13 <flexlibris> I just noticed that ainslie posted a mailman list above
20:33:26 <ainslie> I thought I'd be required to subscribe to the mailing list to post messages but I got confused because I couldn't subscribe to it.
20:33:56 <arma4> needing to be on the list where people report security vulnerabilities...in order to use it...would be very weird indeed.
20:35:45 <ainslie> I'm keen to do the term paper on an official or semi-official basis because a lot of the tools I'd like to use are unaffordable as an independent researcher or require organisational affiliation to obtain or be in receipt of time-limited trial licenses.
20:36:15 <arma4> official meaning part of your org? or official meaning part of tor?
20:36:44 <ainslie> I mean as a part of The Tor Project.
20:37:21 <ainslie> I'm an unaffiliated independent researcher.
20:37:42 <flexlibris> ainslie: so we have an official process for becoming a core contributor to Tor, one sec
20:38:01 <arma4> are you asking in a roundabout way for funding to pay for the tools? i still don't understand what you're needing
20:38:09 <flexlibris> https://gitweb.torproject.org/community/policies.git/tree/membership.txt
20:40:05 <ainslie> I don't anticipate needing financial help for the tool sets I'd like to use but formal affiliation might help as it might be possible to ask for donations of licenses in-kind.
20:41:42 <flexlibris> does "formal affiliation" mean saying "I'm a Tor person" or is there some commitment from Tor as well?
20:42:13 <arma4> one way forward might be to find a tor person to team up with. that could be good for a number of reasons. but also maybe a bit hard since so many tor people are busy.
20:42:38 <arma4> (if we call you a tor person, and then you do something that wasn't what we would have done, things get messy.)
20:43:06 <Samdney> +1
20:43:24 <arma4> the membership guidelines that flexlibris pointed to are also worth reading. they're designed so that you get called a tor person *after* you do the useful things, not right before you start.
20:43:45 <ainslie> I don't anticipate commitments from The Tor Project itself but I'd like to join The Tor Project on an official basis but of course discussion about it is useful.
20:44:00 <ainslie> Thanks. I appreciate the clarification.
20:44:02 <flexlibris> I recommend reading the guidelines above then, as a start
20:44:39 <flexlibris> okay, anyone else have an update? if not I will share mine
20:44:48 <ilv> i have a brief one
20:45:03 <flexlibris> ilv: go ahead
20:45:08 <ilv> as you might have seen i've been trying to push the idea of a tor-es mailing list
20:45:17 <ilv> I still have some emails and tickets to reply, hope to do that soon. It seems there is consensus about it, and the only thing left would be to choose a good name
20:45:29 <ilv> So if you have thoughts on that please say so :)
20:45:45 <ilv> i am still not convinced of tor-talk-es, as some people suggested
20:45:50 <flexlibris> ilv: I like tor-es
20:45:53 <flexlibris> I don't like tor-talk-es
20:45:58 <flexlibris> because tor-talk is....how to say this nicely
20:46:00 <flexlibris> :)
20:46:05 <ggus> hahah
20:46:19 <flexlibris> it doesn't have a very inspiring signal-to-noise ratio :)
20:46:28 <flexlibris> and I would not want people to get that impression from tor-talk-es
20:46:41 <ilv> yes, i agree
20:46:43 <arma4> right, tor-talk has a bad reputation, so reusing its name will start you off poorly
20:46:57 <arma4> i would like to hear an answer to the scope question
20:47:11 <sysrqb> tor-talk has improved, though
20:47:24 <arma4> like, is this for people discussing moving from one guard to two guards, if they do it in espanol? and also people talking about tor advocacy in argentina, if they do it in spanish?
20:47:45 <ilv> the scope of the list would be general discussion, from users, operators, community, etc
20:48:14 <ilv> arma4: yes
20:48:40 <arma4> "everything in one list, if it's in spanish"
20:49:18 <arma4> that increases the workload on you, for keeping it organized, and for pushing people onto other lists when they are accidentally isolating themselves from other people doing a similar thing
20:49:46 <arma4> like, if a little group of people are discussing prop271 in spanish, and a bigger group are discussing it in english, and they don't know about each other, that goes bad
20:50:02 <ilv> i mean, to start. if we figure we need to create more we split, but i wouldn't want to start already splitted
20:50:27 <ilv> that's why i am (maybe over)thinking about the name
20:50:52 <sysrqb> finding a solution for the language barrier is a much larger, and on-going issue, i think
20:51:09 <Samdney> the problem is also, if something important happened on the es-list and people who don't speak english are not able to follow it ...
20:51:22 <flexlibris> arma4: then again, the way things are now, there might be a group of people talking about it in English, and a bunch of isolated people thinking about it in Spanish but not having anywhere to talk to each other about it
20:51:31 <Samdney> sorry, I meant people who don't speak es
20:51:40 <flexlibris> I think we should encourage as many English/Spanish speakers in Tor to join the list
20:51:45 <flexlibris> so that it wouldn't only fall to ilv to cross-post
20:51:53 <flexlibris> or tell people about important convos happening there
20:52:02 <flexlibris> I will join the list with my bad Spanish :)
20:52:09 <Samdney> me too :)
20:52:49 <arma4> flexlibris: so you like tor-es, not tor-lang-es? what happens when we add a quaranese list, and we realize tor-qa is already something else?
20:52:57 <flexlibris> :)
20:52:58 <flexlibris> good call
20:53:02 <flexlibris> tor-lang-es then
20:53:02 <ilv> or tor-pt
20:53:07 <flexlibris> yes
20:53:45 <ilv> ok, i will follow this discussion in the ticket
20:53:55 <flexlibris> thanks for doing it ilv
20:54:00 <flexlibris> okay I will give my update quickly
20:54:11 <flexlibris> I've mainly been working on the curriculum for Library Freedom Institute
20:54:28 <flexlibris> the website is now updated at libraryfreedomproject.org/lfi with pics and bios of the 14 people we chose for this round
20:54:41 <flexlibris> it's not secret obviously bc it's on the website but I haven't made the big announcement on twitter yet
20:54:59 <flexlibris> and also of course because I'm talking about it here. all I'm saying is I'll be tweeting the announcement tonight :)
20:55:16 <flexlibris> we're about to start interviewing for the community liaison position so that's exciting
20:55:32 <flexlibris> I'm building modular slides for Tor trainings and I asked for feedback on tor-project@
20:55:43 <flexlibris> lots of people responded to help but the more the merrier, so if you want to see those slidedecks holler at me
20:56:06 <flexlibris> the idea is to have a set of them that can be used separately or in conjunction with each other and can easily be translated
20:56:16 <flexlibris> they will live on community.tpo eventually with a teacher's guide
20:56:38 <flexlibris> I'm also doing a lot of coordination for our sponsor9 outreach/training/usability work
20:56:54 <flexlibris> and working on the Mexico City meeting plans -- gonna send a timeline to that list before the end of the week
20:57:07 <flexlibris> annnnnnd one of these days I will make our 6 month roadmap
20:57:27 <flexlibris> oh AND we'll send the Mexico City save-the-dates out soon just to get the ball rolling on people who we KNOW we want to invite
20:57:53 <flexlibris> but there will be some time after that to invite more people, especially local people, so ping me if you have suggestions about who should be there
20:57:57 <flexlibris> okay, I think that is all I have
20:58:07 * flexlibris exhales
20:58:22 <t0mmy> hooray for choosing folks this round!
20:58:27 <t0mmy> can't wait to see it all come together
20:58:32 <arma4> we're all busy looking at the lfi page ;)
20:58:34 <flexlibris> t0mmy: i'm excited!
20:58:39 <flexlibris> :)
20:58:44 <flexlibris> it's a good looking group I think!
20:58:47 <flexlibris> from all over the US
20:59:35 <Samdney> (btw, ahf made some nice tor latex-slide-templates, maybe somebody can use id ;)
20:59:47 <arma4> flexlibris: you remember al gore's "an inconvenient truth"? he made a sequel, "an inconvenient sequel", and in it you get to see some of his process for creating training programs to replicate and scale his advocacy
20:59:58 <arma4> flexlibris: might be worth finding a person who did that training and ask them for hints
21:00:05 <flexlibris> arma4: oh that sounds neat
21:00:07 <flexlibris> I will look that up
21:00:25 <arma4> early in the movie you see him doing his talk to like 10 people in a little room,
21:00:34 <arma4> and later in the movie you see him doing a training session to like 100 people in a real auditorium
21:00:55 <arma4> and all of these people are folks who signed up to be imitiation al gores doing climate change talks of their own
21:01:01 <flexlibris> cool!
21:01:15 <flexlibris> arma4: the assignments every week require them to go out and teach others what they've learned
21:01:25 <flexlibris> and part of what we're teaching them includes public speaking/workshop giving, plus media training
21:02:13 <arma4> https://www.climaterealityproject.org/training
21:02:22 <Samdney> i think speaking is the really hard part for much people
21:02:29 <flexlibris> yes
21:02:38 <flexlibris> thanks arma4
21:02:44 <flexlibris> anyway that is all from me
21:02:53 <flexlibris> anyone have anything else to discuss?
21:02:59 <flexlibris> (we are past the hour)
21:04:06 <flexlibris> .....looks like no
21:04:11 <flexlibris> I'm gonna kill the bot
21:04:13 <flexlibris> #endmeeting