14:29:30 <karsten> #startmeeting metrics team
14:29:30 <MeetBot> Meeting started Mon Jan  8 14:29:30 2018 UTC.  The chair is karsten. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:29:30 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
14:29:37 <karsten> irl_work: you around, too?
14:29:38 <irl> hi
14:29:46 <iwakeh> hi irl!
14:29:53 <karsten> hi!
14:30:12 <irl> happy new year! i see we're still on the 2017/Q3 pad though
14:30:32 <karsten> fixed.
14:30:33 <iwakeh> true :-) new year new pad!
14:30:42 <karsten> okay. for next meeting!
14:30:49 <irl> heh
14:31:34 <karsten> https://storm.torproject.org/shared/Ou-1QRctynWbF4yedi-MfDsjImFMFSIEP20fbVGCPRa <- link
14:31:43 <iwakeh> still loading slowly the storm pads...
14:31:59 <karsten> hmm, do you think a new one will load faster?
14:32:22 <irl> perhaps, it does a lot of markup after it's loaded like author color highlighting
14:32:25 * karsten always wondered why the pad tells us how many bytes it takes on the server.
14:32:52 <karsten> okay, I'll create a new pad after this meeting. :)
14:33:06 <iwakeh> well, my sample of two shows no difference
14:33:14 <karsten> proven.
14:33:29 <iwakeh> oh, the second link was also for the old pad.
14:33:55 <iwakeh> we could erase the old stuff?
14:34:12 <karsten> I guess the size comes from history, not from currently visible stuff.
14:34:29 <karsten> let's not delete things. let's start a new pad.
14:34:31 <iwakeh> makes sense
14:34:57 <karsten> shall we start?
14:35:04 <irl> ok
14:35:08 <iwakeh> fine
14:35:14 <karsten> - Onionoo bandwidth graphs #24155 (irl)
14:35:25 <karsten> so, you have two ideas there?
14:35:47 <irl> so i guess that the 1 month graph is going to go away from onionoo? i haven't found any specifics about onionoo changes in tickets
14:35:56 <karsten> so, about that,
14:36:09 <karsten> I think (but am not 100% certain) that we never explicitly removed graphs earlier.
14:36:20 <karsten> that is, when tor switched from 15 minutes to 4 hours.
14:36:42 <karsten> we simply did not include those finer-grained graphs anymore, and when all (or most) relays upgraded, it didn't matter anymore.
14:37:09 <karsten> I only started looking before this meeting and would have to find the relevant code,
14:37:24 <karsten> but I think that if there's a really old relay, we'd provide a 1_week bandwidth graph for it.
14:37:47 <iwakeh> a question?
14:37:51 <karsten> assuming that this is correct, we'll not be making changes on onionoo's side. you'll simply drop the graph in relay search. for all relays.
14:38:03 <karsten> what's the question?
14:38:15 <iwakeh> onionoo only provides the data, so the graphs
14:38:19 <iwakeh> are supposed
14:38:23 <iwakeh> to disappear
14:38:30 <iwakeh> from relay search and onionoo
14:38:37 <iwakeh> will stop providing
14:38:45 <iwakeh> more finne grained data, correct?
14:39:05 <karsten> I think that onionoo stopped providing finer-grained data for relays that don't provide it anymore,
14:39:18 <karsten> but it keeps providing that finer-grained data for relays that still provide it.
14:39:28 <iwakeh> so, that is ok?
14:39:30 <karsten> the question is whether onionoo should stop doing the latter. I could imagine not.
14:39:34 <irl> onionoo doesn't provide the data anymore, but it also doesn't provide 3 month graphs for relays that have been online less than 1 month
14:39:51 <karsten> oh!
14:39:57 <irl> which means relay operators waiting months before they see bandwidth graphs
14:39:58 <karsten> that is a bug then.
14:40:04 <iwakeh> new ticket
14:40:15 <karsten> maybe it's already on a ticket and I didn't see it.
14:40:55 <iwakeh> do we need to adapt/check all bandwidth related reporting from onionoo then?
14:41:17 <irl> i can make a new ticket for that, ideally we would have 3 month and up always there, and finer grained ones can optionally not be there
14:41:19 <karsten> just bandwidth docs.
14:41:59 <karsten> yes, and ideally we'd do that without hard-coding the "3 months" part.
14:42:09 <iwakeh> is there the relay search ticket already?
14:42:11 <karsten> okay, I have an idea where in the code to look.
14:42:20 <karsten> good question.
14:42:29 <karsten> (sorry, gotta run for 2 mins..)
14:42:29 <irl> the relay search ticket was armadev complaining in #tor-project yesterday
14:42:50 <iwakeh> maybe link the two tickets?
14:43:23 <irl> arma5 ╡ (why does the '1 year' graph for this relay say 'no data available'? surely there are 3 months of data
14:43:26 <irl> ╡ available.)
14:43:52 <irl> but i wasn't sure exactly what changes we were making so i didn't turn this into a trac ticket yet
14:44:15 <iwakeh> ah, I understand.
14:44:19 <karsten> (back.)
14:45:44 <karsten> so,
14:45:54 <karsten> what about relay search displaying 1 month data at all?
14:46:10 * karsten is confused about tickets
14:46:15 <karsten> is there a ticket for that?
14:46:20 <iwakeh> you mean: skip these graphs?
14:46:49 <irl> now that i've had a good hack on the graphing code, i think we won't be dropping the 1 month graph. if it's not available then i'll hide the tab from view so it's not clickable.
14:46:52 <irl> this would be a new ticket.
14:46:58 <iwakeh> there is the onionoo ticket from above and a to-be-created one for relay search
14:47:36 <karsten> another option would be to display the last month from the 3_months data set.
14:47:51 <irl> can that be done in onionoo?
14:48:04 <karsten> weights data is even available for 1_week.
14:48:15 <karsten> fine question. related to your next one, I think.
14:48:20 <karsten> "  - Extrapolating to form the wider scale graphs instead of not giving data"
14:48:27 <iwakeh> should there be a flexible time-frame query option?
14:48:46 <iwakeh> down to the minimum unit of X days?
14:48:55 <karsten> no, we wouldn't be able to prepare that.
14:49:09 <karsten> we're writing these files to disk and only handing them out.
14:49:12 <iwakeh> X=7 is a week.
14:49:31 <karsten> yes, but what we do right now is not flexible.
14:49:38 <karsten> we have a small set of hard coded Xes.
14:49:42 <iwakeh> ok. so receiver wuld need to infer the partial data.
14:49:58 <karsten> that's the question here. onionoo *could* prepare that data set.
14:50:10 <iwakeh> who else would benefit?
14:50:11 <karsten> it's redundant, though, and so far we didn't do it.
14:50:42 <iwakeh> and how much overhead on onionoos side?
14:50:43 <karsten> well, it would be easier to work with onionoo data.
14:50:47 <karsten> some.
14:50:57 <iwakeh> more/bigger docs.
14:51:02 <karsten> bigger docs.
14:51:07 <iwakeh> more calculation.
14:51:30 <karsten> let's create a ticket for that.
14:51:35 <karsten> and discuss more offline.
14:51:40 <irl> ok
14:51:40 <iwakeh> and move the discussion there.
14:51:45 <karsten> that's not clearly a good or bad thing.
14:52:26 <karsten> ok.
14:52:29 <karsten> made a note.
14:52:33 <karsten> moving on?
14:52:40 <iwakeh> fine
14:52:42 <irl> ok
14:52:45 <karsten> - 34c3 relay operators meeting feedback (irl)
14:53:06 <karsten> how was 34c3? :)
14:53:15 <iwakeh> crowded?
14:53:20 <irl> it was good, not too crowded
14:53:40 <irl> the new location worked quite well for it, except during the day when the huge glass hall felt a little like a washing machine trade show
14:53:58 <irl> but once it was dark everything was fine again with lasers and leds
14:54:02 <karsten> heh
14:54:38 <irl> there was a relay operators meetup and i made a note of a few things relevant to metrics
14:54:49 <iwakeh> cool
14:54:56 <karsten> !
14:55:14 <irl> the first was that relay operators don't know where to run relays, they have the goodbadisps page but it's not obvious where is oversubscribed
14:55:36 <karsten> fine question.
14:55:42 <irl> a mashup of that page with relay counts or consensus weight data would be really helpful to new operators or existing operators growing their family of relays
14:56:11 <iwakeh> true
14:56:39 <irl> the architecture i have for this in my head would involve the goodbadisps page being a lot more structured than it is now though
14:56:51 <irl> for now perhaps this goes in Metrics/Ideas
14:56:59 <karsten> yes!
14:57:08 <irl> i shall create a ticket then
14:57:14 <karsten> please do. :)
14:57:36 <irl> the next two topics are from nicoo
14:57:52 <irl> i'm not sure if you're aware of the infoscreens used at CCC
14:58:00 <iwakeh> not really
14:58:03 <karsten> nope.
14:58:22 <irl> they run software called infobeamer and essentially it goes through different screens showing information such as next talk time or public transport times
14:58:28 <iwakeh> https://info-beamer.com/
14:58:30 <iwakeh> this?
14:58:33 <irl> it's scriptable in lua
14:58:36 <irl> yes, that's the one
14:59:02 <irl> nicoo wanted to have a screen showing metrics-bot style factoids around the halls, but we didn't have the time to do it
14:59:17 <iwakeh> neat idea!
14:59:26 <irl> i believe he is working on a module that could be reusable though and i will probably take this to EMF camp in August
14:59:43 <karsten> sounds fun! how can we help on the onionoo side?
15:00:02 <karsten> or, metrics side in general?
15:00:16 <irl> i think the onionoo side is all there already because it's just things that metrics-bot already does, just displayed on a big screen
15:00:26 <karsten> okay.
15:00:47 <irl> the final thing is rewriting tordnsel to use onionoo
15:00:59 <irl> which nicoo is working on, i believe in Go
15:01:17 <irl> he's going to speak to us before attempting any deployment but if there are any concerns that are immediate then we should tell him
15:01:31 <karsten> rewrite which part?
15:01:40 <irl> the DNS server
15:02:04 <karsten> ok.
15:02:13 <irl> from my understanding, we have exitmap run and then we import data into onionoo
15:02:25 <irl> the exit addresses can then be used to replace the dns server
15:02:32 <karsten> no, we're not using exitmap for this.
15:02:47 <irl> uh oh. what do we use?
15:03:14 <karsten> I think it's called TorDNSEL. I always found the names confusing.
15:03:23 <irl> oh dear
15:03:23 <karsten> we could ask arlo.
15:03:30 <irl> that's not good
15:03:40 <karsten> yes, it's all very unmaintained in that area.
15:03:46 <irl> so we're using the old tordnsel as a data source for onionoo which is a data source for the new tordnsel
15:04:05 <karsten> sounds like that's the new plan, yes.
15:04:10 <irl> well, at least we caught this early
15:04:28 <karsten> I mean, it could be that we're replacing a different thing that needs to be replaced.
15:04:36 <karsten> let's ask arlo.
15:04:40 <irl> the idea was to kill the old one
15:04:50 <karsten> ah, that won't work then.
15:05:01 <irl> can we get exit addresses from exitmap?
15:05:13 <karsten> I don't know. we should ask phw.
15:05:55 <irl> ok, i will let nicoo know that this plan needs more thinking and we can talk to arlo and phw
15:06:13 <karsten> sounds good!
15:06:49 <karsten> alright, moving on to the next topic?
15:06:52 <irl> yep
15:06:56 <iwakeh> sure
15:06:59 <karsten> - Monthly report (karsten)
15:07:16 <karsten> please take a look at the report items a bit further down on the pad.
15:07:27 <karsten> and please fill in anything that needs to be in the december report.
15:07:44 <karsten> irl: your item in particular needs a bit more work.
15:08:02 <iwakeh> the jetties ran fine so far, we could mention, too?
15:08:14 <irl> maybe sub bullet points?
15:08:15 <karsten> we did.
15:08:30 <karsten> last but one item.
15:08:52 <karsten> so, hmm, this is not the report format anyway.
15:11:35 <karsten> iwakeh: or what did you want to mention in particular?
15:11:38 <iwakeh> Am I still online?
15:11:42 <iwakeh> ah, yes :-)
15:11:46 <karsten> heh
15:11:54 <iwakeh> was so quiet :-)
15:12:01 <karsten> not on the pad.
15:12:55 <iwakeh> added a sentence there
15:14:10 <karsten> okay!
15:14:21 <karsten> if something else comes to mind, please add it after the meeting.
15:14:27 <irl> i feel like i have disproportionally too many links
15:14:29 <iwakeh> the kickoff
15:14:38 <iwakeh> sponsor13
15:14:42 <karsten> ah,
15:14:45 <karsten> I meant the report.
15:14:56 <iwakeh> ok ;-)
15:14:56 <karsten> if something else is missing in the monthly report, please add it later today.
15:15:01 <iwakeh> hehe
15:15:11 <karsten> and then I'll send the report tomorrow morning. if that's enough time.
15:15:30 <karsten> and yes, we can proceed with the next topic.
15:15:42 <iwakeh> oh, I didn't mean to hurry.
15:15:47 <karsten> no, it's fine.
15:15:54 <karsten> irl: moving on?
15:15:59 <irl> ok
15:16:05 <karsten> (and no worries about too many links. ;))
15:16:07 <karsten> - Kicking off Sponsor 13 (karsten)
15:16:12 <karsten> it's january!
15:16:24 <iwakeh> yep
15:16:27 <irl> https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/org/sponsors/Sponsor13 ?
15:16:29 <karsten> when we got the grant we said we'd complete things in 2017 before starting this work.
15:16:35 <karsten> yes, looks good, irl.
15:17:04 <karsten> so, my plan was to resolve a few defects and make sure that everyone else is not blocking on me,
15:17:08 <karsten> and then dive into 13.
15:17:51 <karsten> does that make sense?
15:18:01 <iwakeh> How to proceed?
15:18:10 <iwakeh> Another meeting for discussing the
15:18:20 <iwakeh> various deliverables and the first steps?
15:19:07 <karsten> what are your plans, iwakeh, for the next weeks?
15:19:14 <karsten> do you have things you'd want to complete first?
15:19:18 <iwakeh> webstats needs to be finished.
15:19:59 <karsten> how about you finish webstats and I come up with a possible plan for 13 until the next team meeting?
15:20:12 <iwakeh> sounds like a plan.
15:20:23 <irl> for 1.1, does presentation include relay search?
15:20:29 <irl> trying to work out how implicated i am
15:20:54 <iwakeh> thisis only relating to the metrics-web
15:20:59 <iwakeh> that existed back then.
15:21:13 <irl> right, ok
15:21:32 <karsten> right. I think it's okay to mention it, but no need to go into details.
15:22:38 <karsten> alright.
15:22:41 <karsten> last topic?
15:22:43 <iwakeh> documenting relay search would be a good topic fr a next sponsor?
15:22:56 <iwakeh> fine to proceed.
15:23:24 <karsten> - Next meeting (karsten)
15:23:31 <karsten> in 1.5 weeks?
15:23:36 <karsten> or is that too long?
15:23:38 <iwakeh> 17th
15:23:49 <irl> the 18th?
15:23:59 <iwakeh> err, yes.
15:23:59 <karsten> yes, why not 18th?
15:24:02 <karsten> ok. :)
15:24:13 <irl> 18th is fine for me
15:24:25 <iwakeh> thursday calender week 3 is fine :-)
15:24:31 <karsten> heh
15:24:45 <karsten> perfect!
15:24:57 <karsten> I think that's all then.
15:25:08 <irl> (:
15:25:22 <karsten> thanks, and bye, bye! :)
15:25:26 <iwakeh> bye, bye :-)
15:25:29 <irl> bye!
15:25:31 <karsten> #endmeeting