17:59:28 <nickm> #startmeeting weekly network team meeting, 18 December
17:59:28 <MeetBot> Meeting started Mon Dec 18 17:59:28 2017 UTC.  The chair is nickm. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:59:28 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
17:59:35 <nickm> io Saturnalia!
17:59:53 <asn> hello hello hello :)
17:59:59 <ahf> hello
18:00:04 <isabela> o/
18:01:08 <dgoulet> hi
18:01:46 <nickm> pad is https://pad.riseup.net/p/udIRDvQyIsi1
18:01:47 <catalyst> hi
18:01:58 <nickm> hihi!
18:02:24 <nickm> my keyboard is dying; apologies for missing lettrs
18:02:42 * asn reads reports
18:03:33 <isis> o/
18:04:49 <pastly> teor: I tentatively suggest tomorrow (US Tuesday) patch party as a time to rebuild fallback dir mirrors. Gotta double check with the missus that my evening is free
18:05:00 <nickm> looks like all the boldfaced things so far are for specific people.  Extra points if you notice the ones for you before we get there. :)
18:05:11 <asn> addressed mine
18:05:19 <nickm> pastly: maybe also say that on the pad, or in email: teor is likely asleep
18:05:48 <mikeperry> hi all. I am waiting for the pad to load..
18:05:56 <pastly> done
18:06:11 <nickm> hi mike!
18:06:22 <asn> yo mikeperry !
18:06:55 <asn> mikeperry: went over your review today. want to do some additions/fixes of my own. didnt manage to finish all of them in time. tomorrow they will be done!!!
18:07:47 <mikeperry> asn: cool. do you want to spend some time talking about choose_good_middle_server()?
18:07:59 <asn> mikeperry: yes sure. maybe after meeting?
18:08:03 <mikeperry> ok
18:08:15 <asn> (or maybe a bit after the meeting but today since i need to relocate)
18:12:39 <nickm> how are we all doing towards the end of this year ?
18:13:49 <ahf> a bit worried with the relay events - a lot of relay ops friends have poked me about it today :o
18:14:09 <dgoulet> loaded...
18:14:11 <asn> yep. that's another fire we didnt need
18:14:25 <dgoulet> lot on my stack for the mid-jan freeze!...
18:14:26 <asn> also super loaded with reviews and whatnot.
18:14:44 <isabela> isis: i have a point for your attention, regarding moat
18:16:05 <ahf> i was not very good with reviews last week while trying to wrap my head around some data. if someone have some stuff they need reviewed urgently that i can help with during this week feel free to poke me. otherwise i'll go through the list of needs_review and take from there
18:17:47 <asn> i feel like all i've been doing the past 3 weeks is reviewing prop247/prop224/misc tickets. i don't mind because i really want to see these merged. but i havent had time to do anything else which is kinda sad.
18:18:38 <nickm> i know the feelin
18:18:42 <asn> nickm: yep :)
18:19:13 <nickm> dgoulet: mid-jan freeze is one of the discussion items fwiw
18:19:14 <asn> i actually dont mind reviewing code,  i enjoy it. but i'd like to see the review load spread more widely through the team.
18:19:20 <nickm> +1
18:19:29 <isabela> i wonder how is the coordination of work/dependencies going with other teams?
18:19:48 <isabela> from those items that came from the roadmap coordination meeting
18:19:49 <dgoulet> nickm: ah good
18:21:08 <isis> isabela: i saw #24636 and #24637 friday and planned to start on them today
18:21:18 <isis> isabela: thanks!
18:22:34 <isabela> great - maybe we could do a mid week check in or something, since next week is holidays
18:23:17 <ahf> isabela: i'm missing one point to the s8 q4 doc, will get to it after the meeting (related to our benchmarks for the monotime work)
18:23:34 <ahf> i'll highlight you when i've written it if you have any questions there
18:24:42 <nickm> okay, let's start with the discussion thins
18:24:44 <nickm> *things
18:24:53 <asn> ya
18:25:10 <nickm> first two are: how do we adjust our schedule based on 0.3.2.x becoming rc on the day we expected it to become stable?
18:25:13 <isabela> ahf: ack
18:26:12 <asn> nickm: how do u suggest? does this mean that stable gets delayed for 2 weeks (one release)?
18:26:29 <asn> and we let the rc stabilize during the holiday season (?)
18:27:01 <isis> isabela: sure, want to meet thursday morning?
18:27:03 <nickm> we could do that. what would folks think?
18:27:26 <catalyst> do relay operators historically update to bleeding edge releases during the holidays?
18:27:26 <dgoulet> seems reasonable
18:27:37 <nickm> some do...
18:27:39 <nickm> not too many
18:27:57 <nickm> but, um, i'm not going to be putting ou a stable on 1 Jan
18:27:59 <catalyst> might depend on whether their relay operation is work-adjacent for them
18:28:06 <nickm> maybe we should delay more than 2 weeks.
18:29:19 <isis> i thought it was jan 15
18:29:29 <isis> oh
18:29:39 <isis> that's feature-freeze for 0.3.3
18:30:35 <nickm> how about we aim for jan 8 for stable (if possible), and delay feature-freeze by 1 week on 0.3.3?
18:30:45 <asn> i like it
18:30:49 <isabela> isis: like pacific time morning?
18:30:51 <isis> sounds good
18:31:04 <isis> isabela: yeah! or whatever works for you
18:31:06 <isabela> isis: i have vegas meeting at 8:30am your time
18:31:24 <nickm> next discussion topic: there's DoS stuff afoot on the network, and emails going around on tor-relays and network-team-secure
18:31:26 <isabela> maybe 1900 on thursday - i think GeKo can meet that time too
18:31:36 <GeKo> not on thursday
18:31:37 <isabela> err 2000 utc
18:31:42 <isabela> ah
18:31:45 <nickm> let's figure out who/what/when/how on making progress here, given that everybody's busy and the year is ending
18:31:50 <isabela> GeKo: another day/time?
18:31:50 <GeKo> i'll be traveling the whole day
18:32:19 <GeKo> hm
18:32:22 <GeKo> let me think about it
18:32:38 <isabela> maybe wed after meeting with asn
18:32:54 <dgoulet> I'm quite deep in understanding how this DoS is affecting our relays, I do plan to continue on this but help would be much appreciated
18:33:05 <isis> isabela: GeKo: wednesday will also work for me, but tuesday i've promised to attend a crypto standardisation meeting, so if i can't fix everything today, i'm not sure how much i would be able to accomplish at the meeting
18:33:52 <asn> i've got no real time to help with the dos :S
18:35:00 <nickm> i can help think and discuss, and talk about fixes, but I can't do it solo
18:35:09 <nickm> I'd be very glad to work with you on this, dgoulet
18:35:43 <dgoulet> nickm: superb!
18:35:50 <nickm> I'd be very glad to work with you on this, dgoulet
18:35:53 <nickm> err whoops
18:35:55 <nickm> copypaste
18:36:04 <nickm> let's talk together after?
18:36:22 <nickm> are there more folks who are working deeply on this? I see teor is...
18:37:07 <isabela> isis: np, lets try to schedule with mcs and brade instead since GeKo will be traveling - can you do it on wed at like 2000 utc? i will check if they can do at that time
18:37:33 <isis> i tried for an hour-ish to determine what might be causing it along with a relay operator who reported it happening to them
18:38:03 <isis> i'm happy to help try to reason through it too
18:38:08 <nickm> isis: awesome
18:38:17 <isis> isabela: sure, that works! thanks!
18:38:24 <isabela> cool
18:38:50 <nickm> pastly: please wrt fallbacks also reach out to Hello71
18:39:14 <Hello71> if you want to do it you can do it on your own
18:39:14 <nickm> asn: did you want to ask isis somthing abou the bridge bw scanner?
18:39:43 <asn> isis: is the bridge bw scanner something that can be reused for generic bw scanning?
18:39:47 <nickm> mikeperry: for leak checking I usually just use clang and --enable-fragile-hardening; I find that more useful and fast than valgrind.
18:39:55 <asn> isis: and how is that going?
18:40:15 <asn> i've got many people talk to me about bw auths lately, and i'd really like to see something happen in this area. so i'm tryng to map the possibilities.
18:40:39 <nickm> mikeperry: but for valgrind, maybe see the valgrind options in doc/HACKING/HelpfulTools.md ?
18:41:32 <asn> i do: valgrind --leak-check=full --show-reachable=yes --log-file=/tmp/val_tor.log ./src/or/tor -f torrc
18:41:37 <nickm> catalyst: I can hack up the thing you want wrt guards probably; but I'll need more explnation on what it should do & how it should work... can you ping me after the meeting?
18:41:40 <Hello71> dgoulet: if you need help on thinking, I can assist. if it's about "how does tor work", not so much
18:41:54 <asn> yes i also dont understand catalyst's guard question
18:42:01 <mikeperry> nickm: ah ok thanks
18:42:05 <isis> asn: jake the intern has started working on a (minimal) rust controller library and so the finished scanner is probably not too far away
18:42:27 <nickm> not too far ... as in January? Jan-March? 2018? :)
18:43:09 <isis> i would guess jan-march since things are cropping up at their day job
18:43:09 <catalyst> nickm: sure, we can talk after the meeting
18:43:23 <asn> isis: but is this something that can replace torflow for  bwauth?
18:43:24 <nickm> great; I'll be on #tor-dev
18:43:32 <isis> probably i should carve out some time to hack on the bridge bw scanner with them
18:43:42 <nickm> isis: same deal with the rust low-level crypto; let's talk strategies on #tor-dev afte this meeting?
18:43:55 <isis> nickm: sure
18:44:14 <asn> isis: or is it specific for bridges?
18:44:43 <isis> asn: it's for bridges, but it should be extendable (if someone wished to do that) for a torflow replacement
18:45:06 <asn> hmmm ok
18:45:17 <isis> one would need to redo/rethink the functionaility for slowly grouping things in percievedly similar buckets
18:45:19 <asn> sounds non-trivial. same as adapting aaron/donncha/david's bwscanner
18:45:45 <asn> ack thx
18:46:28 <nickm> pfew.  busy times!  13 minutes left in the meeting.
18:46:42 <nickm> I hope everybody gets some relaxing time in over december
18:46:50 <nickm> remember the internet will still be here when you get back
18:46:53 <isis> yeah it may be non-trivial… all i wanted was _any_ measurement of bridges
18:47:23 <isis> maybe we could do a better-organised/more-collective thing to take on an intern to extend it?
18:48:32 <asn> maybe
18:48:41 <asn> lets think about it
18:49:18 * asn done here
18:49:38 <nickm> ok. thanks, everybody!
18:49:44 <asn> thanks :)
18:49:46 <isabela> thanks folks!
18:49:55 <nickm> I'll see you on and off, and see you again in the new year!
18:49:58 <nickm> #endmeeting