19:02:05 <GeKo> #startmeeting tor browser
19:02:05 <MeetBot> Meeting started Mon Dec  4 19:02:05 2017 UTC.  The chair is GeKo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:02:05 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
19:02:09 <GeKo> hi all!
19:02:11 <isabela> o/
19:02:11 <boklm> hi
19:02:12 <pospeselr> hi!
19:02:13 <arthuredelstein> hi everyone
19:02:25 <sysrqb> hello!
19:02:27 <GeKo> i heard we have some new folks this meeting
19:02:32 <isabela> !
19:02:33 <GeKo> here is already one!
19:02:37 <sysrqb> :)
19:02:41 <GeKo> hi sysrqb
19:02:44 <GeKo> hi igt0
19:02:50 <isabela> welcome!
19:02:59 <boklm> welcome sysrqb and igt0!
19:03:03 <arthuredelstein> welcome, both!
19:03:07 <GeKo> both will work on the mobile tor browser port in the coming weeks and months
19:03:09 <GeKo> yay!
19:03:27 <tjr> awesome!
19:03:33 <GeKo> so, let's get us going with our status updates
19:03:40 <GeKo> who wants to go first today?
19:03:45 <igt0> Hi!
19:03:58 <asn> \o/
19:04:00 <asn> sysrqb: o/
19:04:09 <sysrqb> \o
19:04:33 <GeKo> okay, i can go i guess
19:04:55 <GeKo> tor browser related i worked last week on sponsor4 stuff
19:05:30 <GeKo> i tried to wrap up as many things i was able mainly on #24154
19:05:42 <GeKo> and #12420
19:06:02 <GeKo> i spent quite some hours regarding our upcoming security releases
19:06:24 <GeKo> it turns out coordinating security updates from two upstreams is quite hard
19:06:34 <GeKo> we've built the alpha and i signed it
19:07:02 <GeKo> but we still wait for the stable. we need a new firefox candidate build to make progress on that one :/
19:07:28 <GeKo> if there is none tomorrow i might take some shortcuts to get the new build going, we'll see
19:07:52 <GeKo> i started with the begin-of-the-month admin stuff
19:08:20 <GeKo> this will continue tomorrow and then i need to get away from sponsor4 stuff to the things outlined on the roadmap
19:08:50 <GeKo> i want to work on #21847 to get that into 7.5
19:09:03 <isabela> \o/
19:09:09 <GeKo> and the design doc update; it is overdue
19:09:12 <GeKo> that's it for me
19:09:32 <GeKo> who is next?
19:09:33 <pospeselr> I can go next
19:09:39 <GeKo> please do!
19:10:28 <pospeselr> Updated #23970 spilt up the patch per gk's suggestion and integrated the other dependent ff patch
19:10:41 <pospeselr> started digging through #17933
19:11:39 <pospeselr> extraneous pdf requests are coming down through an XmlHttpRequest though the JS engine, if any of you could give me some pointers on debugging that part of FF, that'd be really appreciated
19:12:03 <arthuredelstein> pospeselr: I might have some hints on #17933 if you want to chat about it after the meeting
19:12:04 <pospeselr> and that's it for me
19:12:09 <pospeselr> yeah taht'd be great :)
19:12:36 <arthuredelstein> possibly helpful, possibly unhelpful :)
19:12:55 * arthuredelstein can go
19:13:07 <pospeselr> well, even general advice about debugging issues coming from the JS engine would be helpful :)
19:13:30 <arthuredelstein> This week I have been working on MPX (#16352).
19:13:43 <arthuredelstein> I have made a lot of progress, but I am still running into a couple of build issues.
19:13:55 <arthuredelstein> I'm optimistic I can fix these issues (or find a Firefox build expert to help me), but it is going to take more time.
19:14:03 <arthuredelstein> I also continued to work on #18101.
19:14:14 <arthuredelstein> I got it working on Windows 7, but it's not quite working on Windows 10, and I haven't figured out why yet.
19:14:50 <arthuredelstein> So my plan for this week is to keep working on these two and then work on #23930.
19:15:05 <arthuredelstein> That's it for me.
19:15:13 * mcs will go next
19:15:26 <mcs> Last week, Kathy and I created a patch for #24428.
19:15:26 <GeKo> arthuredelstein: could you dump your current results in the MPX ticket?
19:15:48 <mcs> We then worked on Moat integration (#23136) and came up with a revised UI (feedback is welcome).
19:15:58 <mcs> We also looked at some issues with the new Tor Launcher UI that were reported by Isabela; see #24371.
19:16:05 <mcs> This week we plan to continue working on Moat integration and other aspects of the new Tor Launcher UI.
19:16:07 <GeKo> arthuredelstein: i think it's perfectly fine for the sponsor4 thing to have "just" those and work further on this topic (outside of the contract)
19:16:12 <mcs> That's all for us.
19:16:32 <arthuredelstein> GeKo: Sure. what's the overall deadline for reporting progress on MPX?
19:16:43 <GeKo> it depends
19:16:53 <GeKo> originally nov 30
19:16:58 <arthuredelstein> Like, should I try to solve remaining build problems over the next couple of days?
19:17:08 <GeKo> but we got an extension unrelated to MPX but for moat
19:17:34 <GeKo> so, we could keep that item open in our sponsor4 bucket until we are done
19:17:45 <GeKo> or we could close it with the progress made by you
19:18:04 <GeKo> i think both would be fine
19:18:31 <arthuredelstein> OK, well I will dump what I have now.
19:18:32 <GeKo> although i'd slightly prefer the second option because it want to move on and not have all those sponsor4 stuff still being on our radar
19:18:45 <GeKo> (not that we should not work on those open items anymore
19:19:05 <GeKo> just that i want to get rid of the sponsor4 label and all the paperwork associated with it)
19:19:11 <GeKo> thanks
19:19:34 <arthuredelstein> Yeah, I might keep working on it for a bit, but it makes sense to me to close out the sponsor 4 label.
19:19:35 <GeKo> arthuredelstein: oh, and one item you could keep an eye on is #24309
19:19:56 <GeKo> that's one of the ux team  items and we should provide feedback if needed
19:20:15 <arthuredelstein> oh cool, I hadn't seen antonela's comment yet.
19:20:16 <GeKo> i try to get to it if i can but you had been working on that part of the code in the past
19:20:21 <isabela> yep!
19:20:26 <GeKo> and i thought you might be interested in it
19:20:27 <arthuredelstein> I will have a look at it.
19:20:30 <arthuredelstein> yup!
19:20:30 <GeKo> thanks
19:20:34 <isabela> i organized all info and proposed a solution, antonela also added comments
19:20:40 <isabela> more feedback would be great!
19:20:49 <GeKo> alriiiight.
19:20:53 <GeKo> who is next?
19:20:56 * boklm can go next
19:21:13 <boklm> This past week I worked on #23738, on #24477 and helped with building the upcoming releases
19:21:16 <boklm> This week I'm planning to create a ticket asking to add the fpcentral apache config, to finally close #23738
19:21:23 <boklm> Then help with building/publishing the new releases. I want to finally review the Android OS applications.
19:21:32 <boklm> And get ready to go to the Mozilla meeting the following week.
19:21:36 <boklm> That's it for me.
19:22:40 <GeKo> boklm: sounds good. those two are indeed the highest prio right now
19:22:51 <sysrqb> I don't have any update, but I just want to say Hi, again, and I'm excited to start working on the android port
19:23:03 <mcs> Great to have you!
19:23:22 <sysrqb> thanks :)
19:23:28 <GeKo> boklm: if you have time fixing important win64 issues (the nsis one) and tor-browser-build issues would be good
19:23:49 <boklm> ok, I will see if I get time for that
19:23:52 <GeKo> the latter to have everything ready for the 7.5 build system switch
19:24:23 <GeKo> anyone else here for a status update?
19:24:30 <igt0> Hi my plan for this week is work on the tickets: #23104 and #22084 besides that I did the Orfox setup in my dev machine.
19:24:56 <igt0> that is it for me.
19:25:05 <mcs> igt0: I am also glad you are here!
19:25:14 <GeKo> igt0: neat, could you document that for our HACKING page?
19:25:25 <igt0> mcs, thanks!
19:25:29 <igt0> GeKo, okey dokey
19:25:35 <GeKo> so that others have it easier to work on orfox/tor browser  mobile stuff?
19:25:49 <sysrqb> igt0: Hi! o/ awesome
19:25:54 <sysrqb> looking forward to working with you on this
19:26:02 <GeKo> igt0: https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/doc/TorBrowser/Hacking is the one we have
19:26:29 <igt0> sysrqb, hi! same!
19:26:43 <GeKo> it could be something in the Partial Builds section
19:26:45 <tjr> I can go. The boring stuff takes the most time: doing some documentation and prepping my session for the mozilla all-hands.
19:27:20 <tjr> I've been trying to keep an eye on web statndards, and I opened this issue today: https://github.com/w3c/mediacapture-fromelement/issues/68
19:27:47 <tjr> Did this one a while ago too: https://github.com/WICG/media-capabilities/issues/48
19:28:13 <tjr> I looked at canvas stuff briefly today, and found the OffscreenCanvas stuff which I noticed GeKo had seen
19:28:49 <tjr> I had a discussion with someone at Mozilla about it, specifically if we could put in a request that OffscreenCanvas change all its APIs to promise-based ones to be much easiler to turn into permission prompts
19:29:15 <tjr> he wasn't opposed to the idea, but wanted to know if we could just neuter canvas fingerprinting outright ny normalizing rendering
19:29:30 <tjr> To my knowledge no one has done a deep dive into what that would take or if it was possible.
19:29:47 <GeKo> uh, that's probably pretty hard
19:30:36 <tjr> anything offhand you can hit me with? :)
19:31:07 <GeKo> "If WebGL is normalized through software rendering, system colors were standardized, and the browser shipped a fixed collection of fonts (see later points in this list), it might not be necessary to create a canvas permission"
19:31:15 <GeKo> from the design doc :)
19:31:41 <GeKo> that's what mike came up back then
19:31:53 <GeKo> there could be more, though
19:31:55 <tjr> So software rendering is possible, or so i was told in #gfx, and we can normalize fonts
19:32:00 <tjr> So 'system colors were standardized'....
19:32:50 <tjr> I think we have that one with https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1330876 / https://gitweb.torproject.org/tor-browser.git/patch/?id=00b99b0
19:33:10 <arthuredelstein> fonts are already normalized per platform as well
19:33:19 <tjr> boklm: Are there canvas tests in fpcentral? Something I could use as a starting point for doing a deep dive?
19:33:33 <mcs> font rendering might vary by platform though
19:33:54 <arthuredelstein> mcs: very true
19:34:24 <tjr> When you say Platform do you mean OS or even across the same OS?
19:34:53 <tjr> Canvas has a measureText API that Tor doesn't block currently, but it's allowed on the justification that if the fonts are standardized this won't leak any info
19:35:29 <GeKo> tjr: currently it's even across the same OS IIRC
19:35:43 <boklm> tjr: I think currently there is no canvas tests in fpcentral. Maybe we should add that.
19:36:08 <GeKo> see e.g. #17999
19:37:01 <GeKo> #16672
19:38:11 <tjr> Okay
19:38:35 <GeKo> i guess it's time to revisit that but i think the hard part will be the software rendering
19:39:05 <GeKo> but if that's doable, nice!
19:39:13 <tjr> His statement was "for example, if you force Skia software rendering on all platforms, do you know what causes fingerprintable rasterization differences?"  which leads me to believe that making skia do software rendering isn't all that difficult
19:39:28 <GeKo> okay!
19:39:38 <tjr> It would be awesome if these things wound up in fpcentral as a single central point
19:39:49 <GeKo> so if there is something we could try finding out more i am happy to have that in an alpha or so
19:39:58 <GeKo> tjr: that's the plan
19:40:16 <tjr> Anyway, I'm not sure where to take this. I will continue pushing on web standards for small stuff
19:40:32 <GeKo> okay, i guess we are already about to move to the discussion time?
19:40:38 <tjr> But turning OffscreenCanvas into pure-Promise will probably require more juice than I have, it'd be better if Mozilla backed it
19:40:40 <isabela> i have a short update
19:40:46 <GeKo> or are there more updates?
19:40:49 <GeKo> yes, go!
19:40:59 <GeKo> tjr: agreed
19:41:09 <isabela> just picking up some work on UI text and documentation
19:41:13 <isabela> I plan on working at the copy for #24200
19:41:16 <tjr> And that seems to be blocked on the canvas investigation, and I'm not sure when I will have time for that. So kind of a holding pattern, unless anyone else wants to take it.  /fin
19:41:20 <isabela> and start looking at updates on user documentation that we should do related to Tor Launcher new UI this ticket #24516
19:41:43 <isabela> we should have  a check list for things like this before the new tor launcher goes to stable
19:42:05 <GeKo> yes
19:42:24 <GeKo> when does this need to be ready?
19:42:31 <isabela> and hopefully follow up on that .onion stuff ( #23247 ) - in case others wants to follow we are sync this wed at 1900 (this channel)
19:42:42 <isabela> GeKo: when is the last merge for stable ;P
19:42:43 <isabela> ?
19:42:51 <isabela> i mean is just text
19:43:02 <isabela> we will work on it before it goes to stable
19:43:05 <GeKo> 7.5 with the new launcher is supposed to get aut on jan 23rd
19:43:19 <isabela> yes, that is what i heard. so like jan 15?
19:43:23 <GeKo> isabela: well, the text and new screenshots need to get created...
19:43:27 <GeKo> which takes time
19:43:32 <isabela> true
19:43:47 <mcs> It would also be good to have time for translators to do their work (for text that is in Tor Launcher)
19:43:53 <isabela> we are missing moat screens
19:43:55 <GeKo> i think the tor launcher changes relevenat here s hould be frozen at the end of the year
19:44:01 <isabela> mcs: yes
19:44:10 <isabela> mcs: i am counting that too
19:44:20 <GeKo> isabela: well, we might need another alpha for the moat stuff
19:44:23 <isabela> that is why we are starting early dec
19:44:31 <isabela> GeKo: good to know
19:44:40 <isabela> we can follow up on that check list of what we need for this stable
19:45:02 <isabela> i also would like to sync with mobile folks - but maybe another time and can be coordinated via email
19:45:10 <GeKo> sounds good
19:45:13 <isabela> just to explain how this sponsor works, when i will be writing reports etc
19:45:14 <isabela> :)
19:45:27 <isabela> alright those were my updates
19:45:34 <sysrqb> isabela: yes, sounds good :)
19:46:00 <GeKo> okay, discussion time.
19:46:31 <GeKo> while we are spekaing about releases: i think we should get out another alpha in a bout two weeks containing all the things we want to have in 7.5
19:47:03 <GeKo> if we are ready with moat for that, fine. if not then it won't make it into 7.5
19:47:34 <GeKo> if any of you have patches that need to get written and should get into 7.5 then this is your week
19:47:45 <GeKo> assuming you will go to the all hands meeting
19:48:17 <GeKo> i plan to spend some hours for review this week and next week to have everything ready for that alpha
19:48:43 <GeKo> and at the beginning of the new year we can finally decide what we want to ship in 7.5
19:49:06 <GeKo> that was item one i had
19:49:25 <GeKo> the other one is: we'll change the meeting style to the one the network team and the vegas team are doing
19:49:30 <GeKo> (as i announced earlier)
19:49:49 <GeKo> it should be more efficient which is needed given that we are growing
19:50:09 <GeKo> i'll write an email to tbb-dev later this week explaining how that works
19:50:28 <GeKo> that's all i have. do we have anything else up for dicussion?
19:51:57 <GeKo> okay, does the plan for our transition to 7.5 sound reasonable?
19:52:14 <GeKo> or do we want to do something differntly/something else?
19:52:20 <pospeselr> makes sense to me!
19:52:43 <boklm> that sounds good
19:52:46 <mcs> It sounds okay to me. I’d love for it to include Moat, but it is looking unlikely (even if we finish the Tor Launcher side, we need BridgeDB deployed)
19:52:54 <mcs> *a new BridgeDB
19:52:59 <GeKo> yep, i know :(
19:53:36 <GeKo> isabela: you are transferring the orfox tickets into trac, right ;)
19:53:40 <GeKo> ?
19:53:42 <isabela> yes!
19:53:48 <GeKo> thx
19:53:53 <isabela> and reviewing the bugs reported on that blog post
19:54:00 <isabela> to see if all is filed as tickets
19:54:01 <GeKo> good point!
19:54:10 <sysrqb> awesome, thank you!
19:54:29 <isabela> tor browser component and keyword tbb-mobile o/
19:55:01 <GeKo> okay, seems we are done for today, thanks for coming and it's exciting to get the mobile work finally started, yay! *baf*
19:55:04 <GeKo> #endmeeting