18:08:57 <Phoul> #startmeeting
18:08:57 <MeetBot> Meeting started Wed Nov  8 18:08:57 2017 UTC.  The chair is Phoul. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
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18:08:57 <anadahz> Phoul: ^ ?
18:09:16 <anadahz> (I'm on a lagy connection)
18:09:27 <anadahz> Do we have an agenda?
18:11:00 <armadev> scope would be helpful too. that is, which parts of website translation are we continuing to agree to ignore, like platform for the new website, and which not :)
18:11:45 <Phoul> Hi everyone, this is the website localization meeting. We are going to discuss how to best get the website localized, what the next steps are, etc.. From this meeting I'd like to basically make a roadmap for the first steps of localization. Currently I think we are ignoring the idea of SIDA funding coming in and the website being rewritten, and just moving forward with localizing whats there in chunks.
18:11:58 <Phoul> anadahz: no worries, im lagged too. Seeing text well after i type it, sorry for typos.
18:12:16 <Phoul> https://pad.riseup.net/p/EWW831Xjy6hu will record stuff here.
18:12:58 <flexlibris> can we write up a short agenda on that pad?
18:12:58 <Phoul> Previously we had decided to do the downloads page first, and I think this is still a good idea. But we have no solid plan for what comes after.
18:13:04 <Phoul> Sure, one moment.
18:13:55 <armadev> phoul: did you know that our website right now is all set to be localized? like, you commit a de/download.wml file and poof, there is a german version of the page available?
18:14:26 <Phoul> armadev: Yup! And Transifex accepts webml.
18:14:42 <armadev> interesting. all as one huge blob, or broken up into pieces, or what?
18:15:11 <flexlibris> is the downloads page already being translatd, or is it scheduled next?
18:15:17 <hiro> Phoul my question was regarding how localization happens. So if we like that lektor framework for making static web pages, it uses like a files where localised content goes and you can import also PO files. would that be easy to port from what we use now on transifex?
18:15:30 <armadev> also, apparently the notion of using a flag to represent a language drives some people nuts, so if we want to use the existing mechanism, we will want to think more about how to signal to people which languages are available, and how they can ask to switch
18:16:25 <Phoul> I havent actually put webml into it, so I'm not entirely certain how it gets broken up. Its just a supported format like anything else. I would imagine it gets broken up by line, but providing context is something we can do on Transifex to a certain extent. I believe with websites there is even a way to have them see the website they are localizing as they translate, but I dont know if that works with
18:16:31 <Phoul> webml.
18:17:01 <Phoul> hiro: PO files would work great
18:17:58 <anadahz> pootle supports po files as well
18:18:40 <t0mmy> (sorry I'm late but hi!)
18:18:53 <anadahz> and IIRC it can import them from a git repository
18:19:12 <Phoul> anadahz: that would make sense. Transifex works that way too
18:20:21 <armadev> is the theory that the current download page won't change "that" much in the website redo? or is the theory that we want translated pages earlier than the redo? or?
18:20:30 <anadahz> Phoul: great, is there anything more that needs to happen apart from setting up a hook to transifex and import the po files from tpo's git repository?
18:20:58 <Phoul> armadev: during Montreal, we decided waiting for the redo before offering anything localized is likely the wrong way to go. Downloads was picked as the most important page to get done first.
18:21:17 <armadev> fun. ok
18:21:31 <flexlibris> woooo iteration
18:21:52 <flexlibris> I think the support portal is a good next candidate after Downloads, mainly because it will not change in the website redo
18:21:59 <flexlibris> because it is part of the website redo
18:22:07 <Phoul> anadahz: Setting up Git branches for the resources, and setting up Transifex to pull in the po files once they exist. For the website we'll be importing webml though.
18:22:07 <anadahz> armadev: in last meeting we also agreed on setting up something faster wrt localized content
18:23:05 <armadev> i am around in case people want help figuring out the current wml set-up
18:23:35 <Phoul> I may take you up on that. Have touched the website before, but not the l10n side.
18:23:36 <armadev> but i suggest somebody just try putting an es/download.wml into place and seeing if auto-renegotiation picks it
18:23:59 <armadev> maybe we broke something in the n years since we last used it. or maybe we didn't. :)
18:24:29 <hiro> I can try that on staging
18:24:37 <anadahz> excellent!
18:24:42 <Phoul> hiro: Thank you!
18:24:43 <hiro> hold on
18:24:57 <hiro> you can continue w/ your meeting while I try it out
18:25:29 <Phoul> For Alison's next point on the pad about review, this shouldn't be an issue. If we stick to the languages Tor Browser supports, we have ecent reviewers for those languages, and they would be happy to see their work on staging first or something.
18:25:32 <armadev> hiro: download/en/download.wml is the current one. download/es/download.wml would be the new one
18:25:53 <Phoul> If we start with the languages Tor Browser supports*
18:26:10 <flexlibris> let's start with the tier 1 languages
18:26:50 <anadahz> Phoul: I'm not aware with transifex and how much manual work it needs after the content get ingested from git?
18:28:24 <Phoul> anadahz: Basically a po file ends up in git, I setup a "resource" on Transifex and upload the po file, tell Transifex to update the po file from git. Then I setup branches on our translation repo, and setup majus to pull hourly from Transifex and commit the translations to the branches in the translation repo. Once thats done, there is no work.
18:28:52 <anadahz> Phoul: great do you help with that?
18:28:58 <anadahz> *need
18:29:22 <Phoul> Should be OK, but thank you! It doesn't take long.
18:30:22 <anadahz> wow
18:30:31 <anadahz> that was easier that I thought!
18:31:32 <armadev> hiro: you'll need to change LANGS=en in Makefile.common to LANGS=en es
18:31:52 <anadahz> Phoul: is this process documented somewhere? If not shall we document it somewhere?
18:32:00 <hiro> armadev yep checking that out
18:32:15 <Phoul> anadahz: It is, was just looking for it. Its on Trac.
18:33:00 <Phoul> https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/doc/translation/Introduction
18:33:31 <Phoul> A couple things there need updating (Transifex UI changes, but the process is the same)
18:33:47 <armadev> hiro: git show 09ccb320 if you want to see some kittens crying
18:37:17 <armadev> oh, something else people should know, if they're using the current wml set-up: if you leave off the .html.en from the page url, your browser will auto pick the best version of the page
18:37:24 <armadev> also if you leave off the .en from the page url, same thing
18:38:09 <anadahz> armadev: best version of the page in terms of what?
18:38:13 <Phoul> ^
18:38:24 <anadahz> armadev: publication date?
18:38:47 <armadev> the one your browser language settings ask for, in order of availability
18:38:57 <Phoul> Oh, awesome
18:39:33 <armadev> this is what the magic <page> tag is for in the website
18:40:08 <hiro> ok I have pushed to staging. let's see if I have forgotten something
18:40:20 <armadev> hiro: do you build locally too?
18:40:25 <armadev> ("make")
18:40:36 <hiro> yep that too
18:40:51 <armadev> in that case...does it build a download/download.html.es file? :)
18:41:03 <anadahz> Phoul: From what I read on the translation trac page, people can also provide offline translations is this correct?
18:41:22 <Phoul> anadahz: Yes, however you need to either be on the team, or send it through me.
18:41:27 <hiro> armadev that did yes
18:41:37 <armadev> hiro: wow. i might not have been bluffing. :)
18:42:10 <armadev> yep, i see it too.
18:42:33 <Phoul> anadahz: A number of people mail me translations. This is why Transifex thinks I speak a bunch of languages. :P
18:43:01 <anadahz> :)
18:44:01 <hiro> armadev also there was a comment in the download page with some quick instructiosn about the makefile :)
18:44:26 <anadahz> do we have any more topics for this meeting?
18:44:47 <anadahz> (while we are waiting for the staging website to be deployed)
18:44:54 <Phoul> There wasnt anything else from me, not sure about others. I will go ahead and get the downloads page on Transifex today.
18:45:16 <armadev> phoul: see en/navigation.wmi in the website repo
18:45:23 <armadev> each language will want a navigation.wmi of its own
18:45:29 <anadahz> Phoul: can we get all pages on Transifex?
18:46:13 <armadev> phoul: also, in the translated wml files, there are a few header lines, which people can use to indicate what version of the english page they're translating
18:46:27 <armadev> and weasel had an awesome translation-status table that showed which translations were up to date and which were not
18:46:38 <Phoul> anadahz: Putting them all up at once will result in downloads taking longer, as people bounce around through resources. Ideally I'd like to do downloads first to sort out any issues we might encounter, and then put other pages up.
18:46:41 <armadev> but i think that table might have been built on the assumption that svn is our revision control mechanism
18:46:45 <armadev> so some updates might be needed
18:47:32 <anadahz> Phoul: I thought that you could prioritize translations in Transifex
18:47:47 <armadev> to get a feel for the old website,
18:47:58 <armadev> go to https://web.archive.org/web/20081106082013/http://www.torproject.org/ and click the little X in the top right to get rid of the archive.org banner
18:48:02 <Phoul> anadahz: I can send out a message and say "please do this first", but if there are 10-15 new resources at 0%, people will work on all of them.
18:48:17 <anadahz> Phoul: ack!
18:48:29 <Phoul> Prioritizing works better if we are adding on ething at a time, so we can say "work on this new thing!"
18:48:32 <armadev> e.g. https://web.archive.org/web/20081114025144/http://www.torproject.org/index.html.es
18:51:00 <armadev> hiro: actually, check out the top of Makefile.common, where it says "Directions for adding a new language:"
18:51:05 <armadev> (maybe you found this already :)
18:52:09 <hiro> armadev: yep I am waiting for the build in staging to happen...let's see
18:52:34 <anadahz> Phoul: does the torproject-homepage branch needs to be added in translation repo ?
18:53:19 <Phoul> A branch will need to be added for each resource (strings file).
18:53:41 <armadev> also, let me remind us about the flags notion. it is the only way we have, currently, for letting people choose other languages
18:53:50 <armadev> other than going up to the url and removing the .en and typing a .es themselves
18:54:04 <armadev> we could maybe replace it with a language selection drop-down
18:54:08 <armadev> somebody would have to write that
18:54:29 <Phoul> Having that on the downloads page was discussed, but yeah, would need to be written.
18:54:41 <hiro> uhm yeah I think it worked https://www-staging.torproject.org/download/download.html.es (although the page is just a copy and paste)
18:56:05 <armadev> hiro: if you had a different content there, you could set your browser to ask for spanish, and see which page you get
18:56:54 <anadahz> I don't see any flags in https://www-staging.torproject.org/download/download.html.es
18:57:24 <anadahz> maybe they are hidden or I can't find them
18:58:02 <armadev> hiro didn't add any flags. also, i think we disabled the whole adding of the flags, and it would need to be re-enabled
18:58:18 <armadev> but, before anybody re-enables it, give isabela an opportunity to explain to you why flags are stupid and wrong
18:58:20 <hiro> yeah also i didn't change the tag
18:58:47 <hiro> the language tag defined in the wml i mean
18:59:08 <Phoul> We are now approaching 1 hour. Is there anything not related to the technical side of this we needed to discuss?
19:01:41 <armadev> hiro: don't check in the .html.es file
19:01:48 <armadev> that's an output, not an input
19:01:54 <Phoul> That seems like a no. Are people OK if I call this meeting complete? Can work on the technical side of integrating translations with the website outside of the meeting.
19:02:16 <anadahz> armadev: is this the flag(?): https://gitweb.torproject.org/project/web/webwml.git/commit/?h=staging&id=08c716c36cf7f135468895f4b4565d5030abe6c4
19:03:05 <hiro> armadev there is a defined tag in the wml file to specify the language that I had not notice before
19:03:23 <hiro> <define-tag lang>es-ES</define-tag>
19:03:38 <armadev> i think that might be for download.wml in particular
19:03:48 <armadev> and i think it might be the language of tor browser that you are trying to fetch
19:03:54 <anadahz> Phoul: next steps?
19:03:55 <armadev> you have chosen one of the most complex files to translate first
19:04:11 <armadev> anadahz: no, it is really a bunch of little pictures of flags
19:04:13 <hiro> yes that's for TBB
19:04:22 <Phoul> anadahz: Getting downloads on transifex, integrating it with the website, and then getting the support portal on Tranfiex. I think those are the next steps for now.
19:04:32 <armadev> to see weasel's translation-status in action, check out this page from the distant past
19:04:33 <armadev> https://web.archive.org/web/20100817010830/http://www.torproject.org:80/translation-status.html
19:07:07 <anadahz> Phoul: Can you please send an email to any list and also ping #tor-south when the downloads translations are intergrated with the website so that some people can start translating?
19:07:43 <Phoul> Sure. I can also ping when they are on Transifex, if thats more useful. Once its on Transifex, we can accept translations.
19:08:10 <anadahz> oh that's some neat work weasel (Translation status)
19:10:10 <Phoul> I'm gonna call this meeting complete. I'll be around for a couple hours still, if anyone wants to discuss further.
19:10:20 <Phoul> Thank you all for coming!
19:10:25 <anadahz> sure thank yuo!
19:10:31 <Phoul> #endmeeting