17:00:41 <nickm> #startmeeting
17:00:41 <MeetBot> Meeting started Mon Nov 14 17:00:41 2016 UTC.  The chair is nickm. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
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17:00:47 <nickm> hi everybody!  It's the weekly network team meeting!
17:00:52 <nickm> welcome!
17:00:58 <asn> hello :)
17:01:26 <dgoulet> hi
17:02:01 <isabela> oi
17:02:01 <nickm> let's start with status updates.  Can somebody else go first while I run to the kitchen for coffee?
17:02:56 <asn> i can go first
17:03:06 <asn> Hello the second week of November I worked on the following things:
17:03:06 <asn> -  I worked on revising the client auth part of prop224 and reviewing Nick's proposed scheme. I received lots of useful feedback and it seems to be one of those projects with multiple use cases where a single solution won't satisfy all of them. My task is to find out a good default scheme that will satisfy most use cases, and then in the future we can perhaps incorporate more client auth schemes.
17:03:12 <asn> -  Rebased my #19043 branch on latest master so that development on INTRODUCE1 cell can start.
17:03:15 <asn> -  Initial review of #20029.
17:03:18 <asn> -  Did a reading group session on onion services at upenn.
17:03:20 <asn> EOF
17:03:30 <asn> My plan for this week is to finalize the client auth thing and do code reviews.
17:03:55 <nickm> back with coffee
17:04:02 <armadev> i have been dabbling in tor tickets for the past week as a way to get my mind off of my eyeball. i am not, probably, doing the most important ones. but hey, it is all a bonus. :)
17:04:28 <armadev> also i did a full pass through the remaining 029 tickets
17:04:38 <isabela> i am working on reports / plan on updating the network team wiki this week as well to organize things better and make it easier for new pps / i also need to ping ppl on testing 0.2.9.5-alpha
17:04:38 <armadev> also, maybe somebody should make plans for new stable versions
17:04:42 <isabela> (sorry)
17:04:47 <armadev> no worries. carry on. :)
17:05:37 * isabela is done
17:05:42 <dgoulet> isabela: oh speaking of wiki, I did that last week just so you know :) https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/org/teams/NetworkTeam#DeveloperGitRepository
17:06:12 <nickm> last week I merged a million things for 0.2.9.5-alpha
17:06:17 <nickm> and put out 0.2.9.5-alpha
17:06:18 <isabela> dgoulet: ! nic
17:06:22 <isabela> *nice
17:06:44 <qengho> I played with builders/tor-browser-bundle a bit. I found that newer python packages in Ubuntu don't know how to construct Debian virtual machines.
17:06:48 <qengho> I intend to pull those virtual-machine details into the builder, and not rely on the python package with that data any more.  #idea
17:06:51 <qengho> EOF
17:07:07 <nickm> and debuged and tested and analyzed and flipped out about and finished (finally) (I hope!) (?) #15056, which will complete the importantest parts of prop#220 .
17:07:44 <nickm> it's a big branch, and it was tricky to test and examine.  I plan to add more tests to it if I have hacking time where my brain is in the right way, but the test coverage is already fairly good
17:08:12 <nickm> this week I am starting a sprint to implement prop#271. I have 11 work days left in the month (including today) to do it ... and 6 holidays and weekends that I could eat for it.
17:08:19 <nickm> This will be a challenge!
17:08:49 <dgoulet> oh wow
17:08:54 <nickm> I am probably going to be disappointing at most of my other tasks for the next couple weeks. I apologize
17:08:54 <asn> oh my
17:09:16 <armadev> are there ways that other folks here could usefully chip in for that?
17:09:18 <nickm> Things I won't be doing much of in november include:
17:09:20 <nickm> - documentation
17:09:22 <nickm> - fixing bugs
17:09:28 <nickm> - fixing up n3eeds_revision tickets I didn't write
17:09:30 <nickm> - reviewing code
17:09:32 <nickm> - merging code
17:09:35 <nickm> - triaging tickets
17:09:37 <asn> nickm: isn't that a bit too much work? can't we satisfy the sponsor in a different way?
17:09:38 <nickm> - figuring out bugs
17:09:43 <nickm> - helping new devs
17:09:49 <nickm> - scheduling meetings to talk about proposals
17:10:06 <nickm> asn: we already delayed a month on this.
17:10:32 <nickm> I believe that we can deliver a most-of version of #19877 with the key parts done.  I do not believe that we need to merge by end-of-month, just implement
17:10:51 <isabela> nickm: you are right
17:11:00 <nickm> but (unless isabela knows different) we already delayed on this.
17:11:18 <isabela> yes, this has been moved from y1 contract to y2 and then added a month extension
17:11:29 <isabela> so its quite hard to push it more
17:11:54 <isabela> but i would like to echo armadev - 12:09 < armadev> are there ways that other folks here could usefully chip in for that?
17:12:07 <nickm> Moreover, the part I feel most strongly about: if we do some half-assed version here and get the sponsor to accept it -- I don't see how we could ask for _more_ funding on the task.  So I'd like to do it right.
17:12:31 <nickm> well, that big list of things I _won't_ be doing in the next couple of weeks -- if anybody can help with any of those, that would give me more time
17:12:55 <isabela> for instance nickm is listed for bug triage this week
17:12:59 <asn> can't we give the sponsor a simulation or something?
17:13:01 <isabela> would be great if someone else can pick i tup
17:13:03 <isabela> *it up
17:13:13 <isabela> also if others can add their names for the upcoming weeks of nov
17:13:13 <asn> i can definitely pick that up, but that's nothing compared to prop#271
17:13:15 <nickm> asn: like I said, if we do that, we probably won't have any funding to _build_ the thing ever.
17:13:19 <nickm> and it's an important feature
17:13:24 <isabela> https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/org/teams/NetworkTeam#Weeklybugtriagerotation
17:13:30 <armadev> re 'merging code', would you be happier if some people here started doing some of that, or happier if nobody did that for a while?
17:13:41 <dgoulet> asn: if you pick this week, I'll take next wek
17:14:07 <nickm> happier if people passed the obvious stuff to me and said "This is easy, merge it", and saved the less obvious stuff till later.
17:14:22 <armadev> makes sense
17:14:24 <asn> dgoulet: sure i can take this week
17:14:33 <isabela> asn dgoulet thanks!
17:14:51 <isis> asn: i can also take triage, if you like
17:14:54 <nickm> I'm not trying to be a drama-source here, and I'm not actually all that stressed about this.  I might feel different in a couple of days, but so far, I think I can handle it.
17:14:55 <dgoulet> trac updated
17:15:08 <asn> nickm: ok. please let me know if you want me to prioritize review of guard stuff
17:15:17 <armadev> dgoulet: some of us will be eating turkey and being yelled at by relatives next week, so it's a good week for you to pick :)
17:15:30 <asn> isis: feel free to take it
17:15:30 <dgoulet> right that's something we could do that is prioritize highly prop#271 code that nickm makes
17:15:32 <isabela> nickm: you are doing the right thing here / delegating and letting people know of yoru capacity limits :)
17:15:38 <asn> isabela: otherwise, i'll just do it
17:15:45 <isis> armadev: hiro is an admin inside of storm and soon will be on the host as well: #20685
17:15:51 <dgoulet> armadev: :)
17:16:14 <isis> hiro: whenever you like, i can give you the tour of brachteata
17:16:16 <nickm> figuring out 029 bugs and 030 bugs will also be a helpful thing others can do
17:16:17 <asn> nickm: there are some guard review tickets from andrea that are in needs_review, would it help if i review them?
17:16:24 <nickm> if people can chip in
17:16:39 <asn> or maybe the one I had in mind got merged.
17:16:40 <nickm> asn: I'll take care of that stuff; they're partially usable
17:17:02 <asn> nickm: ok. let me know if you need help with review.
17:17:09 <nickm> thanks!
17:17:28 <nickm> FWIW, I started review-group-12 today
17:18:04 <asn> yep saw.
17:18:06 <nickm> One task I don't know about for this month: mikeperry has a big branch where I have some open tor design questions I really need to think about and talk through.
17:18:08 <asn> im gonna pick some tickets from there
17:18:17 <isabela> isis: if you are picking a week to be on triage / please add your name to the wiki :)
17:18:38 <nickm> Maybe I could spend an hour picking out the relevant issues and trying to extract and explain them in some detail, and move the discussion on them ahead.
17:18:40 <isis> asn: okay, i'll take triage this week, since it sounds like you might be more help with the new guard stuff than i
17:18:48 <asn> isis: thanks :)
17:18:49 <isis> isabela: okay!
17:18:53 <nickm> mikeperry's patch will be quite valuable to tor once it's merged.
17:18:57 <dgoulet> +1
17:19:38 <nickm> ok. i'll try to do that today too
17:19:48 <nickm> once my brain resets from my first guard sprint today
17:19:56 <nickm> also please don't feel you can't ask me to do stuff or help with stuff!
17:20:00 <nickm> It's fine!
17:20:10 <nickm> I'll just say "sorry, please wait" more than usual. :)
17:20:17 <nickm> many thanks to all
17:20:43 <nickm> I think that's it for me :)
17:21:09 <nickm> next person / more people? :)
17:21:11 <asn> nickm: thanks :)
17:21:18 <dgoulet> thanks, I'll go quickly
17:21:20 <dgoulet> My last week was about some ticket reviews, patches and implementing #20029 which is based on #19043 which made me re-review quite a bit that code!
17:21:23 <dgoulet> In those patches of last week, mostly fixes post #17238 merge. Also, I've just triaged quite a bit prop224 tickets this morning.
17:21:34 <dgoulet> I now plan to address #20029 review from asn, more unit test and hopefully have something mergeable for nickm by the end of the week!
17:21:54 <dgoulet> and I'll prioritize review/triaging/needs_revision stuff
17:21:55 <dgoulet> --
17:23:02 <nickm> anyone else?
17:23:08 <chelseakomlo> mine is short! i've started helping with how i can on reviewing code, and i have documentation/object models for nickm which i will send this week
17:24:04 <nickm> cool!
17:24:25 <nickm> I hope we can simplify that a lot. One thing to do might be to create tickets about where we can eliminiate stuff.
17:24:29 <nickm> err, simplify stuff?
17:24:36 <nickm> make the object relationships better?
17:24:39 <nickm> something like that
17:24:44 <nickm> any more updates?
17:25:42 <isis> i can go quickly
17:25:45 <nickm> woo!
17:25:50 <chelseakomlo> nickm: cool, that sounds good. and maybe that can help with plans for the modularization effort
17:27:02 <nickm> isis: go ahead?
17:27:02 <isis> last week i did more paperworky things for the OTF grant, got all the testvectors to match for the curve25519 implementation
17:27:13 <hiro> isis: whenever you want
17:28:02 <isis> i did not get started on the paper/documentation i'm supposed to write because i somewhat randomly decided to take a 300€ flight to california
17:28:23 <isis> EOF
17:28:53 <nickm> ok
17:29:04 <nickm> anyone else?  I'll enumerate discussion topics (but not start discussion for a minute or two)
17:29:10 <nickm> - 029 status
17:29:13 <nickm> - 028 and earlier status
17:29:31 <nickm> - are there more things we should do "rotations" on than triage?
17:29:39 <nickm> any more topics or updates?
17:31:09 <nickm> ok!
17:31:20 <nickm> so, 0295 came out last week
17:31:38 <nickm> we've got a few issues left.  Any that we can mark as "not fixing this for 029" would help.
17:31:44 <nickm> any where we can do patches for 029 would help
17:31:53 <nickm> armadev: any interest in helping sort through those some more?
17:32:00 <armadev> yes, i can do another pass
17:32:14 <armadev> but i don't think things have changed that much since my first one
17:32:29 <armadev> (there are a few new ones)
17:32:38 <nickm> looking at the new ones could help
17:32:54 <nickm> are there any still in the 029 milestone where your opinion is "we could/should defer this"?
17:33:03 <armadev> ok
17:33:32 <armadev> how imminent would we like 0.2.9.x-stable to be? that is, how ruthless should our defer logic be
17:34:01 <nickm> we'd like it to make it into debian. so that implies "fairly soon".
17:34:29 <nickm> i'd prefer to avoid taking fixes for stuff that isn't a regression and isn't a big problem.
17:34:40 <armadev> ok. there's still a swath of your merges from last mondayish that i haven't looked at yet
17:34:45 <nickm> especially if those fixes carry a significant risk of failure
17:34:53 <armadev> e.g. the #20499 ones
17:34:59 <nickm> yeah. #20499 seemed like a must-fisx
17:35:15 <nickm> but some of those fixes were "uh oh, that's kind of tricky"
17:35:25 <nickm> I hope we don't have any more bugs like that in the 029 lifecycle
17:35:32 <nickm> and we can call the next release -rc
17:36:28 <armadev> ok. i was thinking of putting my dabbling into an 0.2.7.7, but i will instead focus my dabbling on 0.2.9.x this week.
17:36:42 <nickm> 0.2.8 probably needs dabbling too if you want :)
17:37:00 <nickm> I am going to punt on trying to make backports happen, or to make our backport policy logical, this month.
17:37:13 <nickm> it's something that could use thought though
17:38:23 <armadev> makes sense.
17:38:52 <nickm> maybe we should aim for december for a new 028x and 027x and etc, and a policy
17:38:56 <nickm> for backporting
17:39:44 <nickm> which brings me to the last question -- this bug triage rotation thing is working out well IMO. Should we be looking for more things that can become rotating responsibilities?
17:40:04 <dgoulet> nickm: what do you have in mind?
17:40:20 <nickm> not sure.
17:40:32 <dgoulet> nickm: wouldn't be crazy to delay until December 028 and 027 I believe
17:40:56 <nickm> maybe "making sure that tickets have people working on them" ?
17:41:18 <armadev> i have a memory of suggesting something else for a rotation, in a previous meeting
17:41:20 <nickm> like, making sure that the stuff in the review-group is getting reviewed and the pile of annoying 029-blockers is getting cleared and etc
17:41:24 <armadev> i do not remember what it was though :)
17:41:24 * isabela thinks we should do a eoy review as a team
17:41:40 <armadev> maybe it was 'oldstable maintainer'
17:42:17 <nickm> makes sense
17:42:23 <isabela> and try to prep better for 2017 / e.g. calendar for 2017 releases
17:43:15 <isabela> but i would push this to december since nov is quite crazy for us
17:43:48 <nickm> ok
17:43:55 <nickm> so, more stuff for this week?
17:44:12 <dgoulet> I wonder if we should take the above and bring it to a mailing list so we can discuss a bit more async?
17:44:19 <isabela> yes
17:44:22 <dgoulet> oldstable maintainer, responsabilities, and so on
17:44:27 <dgoulet> backport policy
17:44:42 <dgoulet> as I have no clear answer for you nickm but I can think about it with a thread :)
17:44:55 <isabela> dgoulet: i like that
17:45:05 <nickm> sounds positive to me
17:45:25 <nickm> ok. anything else, or are we done for the meeting?
17:45:33 * dgoulet is good
17:45:43 * isabela is good
17:45:47 <dgoulet> (I can send the first email on the above if you like ^)
17:45:49 <nickm> Thanks, everybody!
17:45:57 <nickm> dgoulet: yes, that would be awesome
17:46:02 <dgoulet> will do
17:46:46 <nickm> #endmeeting