13:59:59 <karsten> #startmeeting metrics team
13:59:59 <MeetBot> Meeting started Thu Mar 10 13:59:59 2016 UTC.  The chair is karsten. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
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14:00:06 <karsten> hello. who's here for the meeting?
14:00:17 <thms> me
14:00:25 <karsten> hi thms!
14:00:26 <Letty> hello, me to
14:00:26 * qiv is still lurking around :-)
14:00:28 <Sebastian> hi
14:00:33 <virgil> oh hai
14:00:40 <karsten> hi Letty, qiv, Sebastian, virgil!
14:01:05 <karsten> https://pad.riseup.net/p/zUNzEIFRq5S4 is the agernda
14:01:08 <karsten> agenda*
14:01:19 <karsten> please add topics as needed.
14:01:34 <virgil> is there someone here from torservers.net ?
14:01:47 <gamambel> yes. we also have #torservers
14:02:49 <gamambel> i can be in the meeting if anyone needs input from torservers but i don't really have time. if you have questions relevant to this meeting better ask them now. :)
14:02:56 * karsten waits another minute for agenda items.
14:04:10 <karsten> okay, let's start.
14:04:21 <karsten> * Input for Vegas team meeting (karsten)
14:04:50 <karsten> so, there will be a meeting of all vegas team leads tomorrow.
14:05:09 <karsten> what should I report, what should I ask, what do you hope me to come back with afterwards?
14:06:15 <thms> no idea
14:06:45 <karsten> maybe if something comes up before tomorrow afternoon, let me know!
14:07:22 <karsten> * Valencia update and roadmap (karsten)
14:07:27 <karsten> err, okay to move on?
14:07:50 <karsten> okay, moving on.
14:08:00 <karsten> so, we had a great tor dev meeting in valencia.
14:08:12 <karsten> I was asked for an update of that.
14:08:31 <karsten> let's see. I think the main metrics-related thing was that we made another roadmap for the next 6 months.
14:08:45 <karsten> and that roadmap totally only includes things that people work on who were present.
14:09:00 <karsten> which means we probably need to extend it, which is good.
14:09:12 <karsten> let's do that in a minute. what else happened in valencia...
14:09:44 <karsten> we had a session where we discussed how to get better usage stats from the various steps of visiting the tor website, downloading tor browser, starting it, running it, updating it, etc.
14:10:09 <karsten> the idea was to find out where the numbers drop in that process to learn what we can improve.
14:10:19 <karsten> the first outcome will be:
14:10:23 <karsten> * website stats (karsten, Sebastian)
14:10:26 <karsten> later in the agenda.
14:10:43 <karsten> other plans for getting more stats need more thoughts.
14:10:52 <karsten> I wonder if the session notes are available.
14:10:59 <karsten> what else?
14:11:08 <karsten> thms, Sebastian: ^
14:11:38 <Sebastian> I have nothing else, and haven't found session notes.
14:11:52 <thms> (have I been at that meeting?…)
14:12:05 <Sebastian> I was at the meeting. Does it make sense to summarize?
14:12:08 <karsten> isabela organized it. not sure if you were there.
14:12:17 <karsten> Sebastian: sure!
14:12:33 <Sebastian> or, I think I was? Anyway. There were plans about getting better stats for usability
14:12:56 <Sebastian> And we wondered, what kind of information can we collect other than the incidental data that we have due to stuff like downloads, website hits, etc
14:13:19 <Sebastian> Most of the stats collection we're doing hasn't been formalized for impact
14:13:34 <Sebastian> and we're thinking about having a research ethics review board kind of thing
14:13:47 <Sebastian> we should evaluate our own stats collection with regards to that
14:14:05 <Sebastian> But once we have that, we might be able to get some more data
14:14:24 <Sebastian> like, for example, which configuration options are common, which aren't
14:14:27 <Sebastian> stuff like that
14:14:37 <Sebastian> I think that's the 10mile high level view
14:14:54 <karsten> great!
14:15:18 <karsten> I can think of a few more things that happened, but those would be closer than 10 miles.
14:15:57 <karsten> let's move on to the roadmap we made in valencia, which seems most relevant here.
14:16:02 <karsten> also on the pad: https://pad.riseup.net/p/zUNzEIFRq5S4
14:16:24 <karsten> the plan is to keep this roadmap updated while we move forward.
14:16:38 <karsten> we didn't do that with the berlin roadmap which made it rather useless in the end.
14:17:16 <karsten> I would like to bring this up at each of our meetings and discuss roadmap items that are due soon.
14:17:41 <karsten> so, if you're doing something metrics-related, please add items with a date and your (Trac) name.
14:17:51 <karsten> and if you want to move around (your) items, please do that.
14:18:04 <karsten> all on the pad, I'll push changes to the wiki after the meeting.
14:18:21 <karsten> if this makes sense, let's go through the items that are due in march.
14:18:51 <karsten> * Start collecting OnionPerf results, include .tpf in Metrics; karsten; 2016-03-15
14:19:33 <karsten> I took a closer look at OnionPerf in the past week or so, found a few issues, and pretty much got it running by now.
14:19:57 <karsten> march 15 is realistic, I'd say. this is my priority right now.
14:20:02 <karsten> * Get a second maintainer for onion service stats; karsten; 2016-03-15
14:20:26 <karsten> done, I think. I convinced dgoulet to look at some code together with me in valencia, and he has access to the metrics host.
14:20:47 <karsten> I'll remove that from the roadmap. (yay!)
14:20:52 <karsten> * Analytics project: convert CollecTor data to JSON and Parquet; thms; 2016-03-31
14:21:12 <karsten> thms: I think that's already done, right?
14:21:15 <isabela> (/me can get the session notes re: usability metrics)
14:21:36 <karsten> isabela: are you planning to put them on the wiki?
14:21:44 <isabela> karsten: yes
14:21:59 <karsten> isabela: would you be able to put them there and paste a link here?
14:23:02 <isabela> not right now tho - I plan on getting as many notes in the wiki but I dont have the passphrase to download them I asked Lunar this morning
14:23:06 <isabela> so it will be there soon I hope
14:23:31 <karsten> isabela: ah okay. should be fine. thanks!
14:23:45 <karsten> okay, those are the three items for march.
14:23:56 <karsten> anything else we should add to the roadmap?
14:24:47 <karsten> and no worries about comitting to something. it's easy to push things further down the roadmap if needed.
14:25:06 <karsten> it's just good to have a plan, so that we don't miss something important.
14:25:59 <karsten> okay, let's move on.
14:26:04 <karsten> * Directory authority disagreement visualization (Letty)
14:26:19 <karsten> Letty: we talked this morning. want to give a quick update?
14:26:36 <Letty> Karsten and I talked early the day about the next step for integrating the disagreement viz to metrics (http://letty.io/tor/)
14:26:43 <Letty> next steps:
14:26:49 <Letty> karsten will change the script for the raw data (.csv file) -> this data will be provided for download with specification
14:26:56 <Letty> I will rewrite the data converter script from csv to json file with special calculations for the viz. we will not provide this file for download
14:26:57 <t> (oups- i (thms) lost connection during the last 9 minutes)
14:27:06 <Letty> after these steps, i will modify some code for the viz and we can migrate the viz to metrics. yay.
14:27:19 <karsten> yay indeed!
14:27:46 <karsten> this is my next priority after getting the onionperf stuff running, and as far as non-development stuff allows.
14:28:14 <karsten> wb, t!
14:28:27 <karsten> t: want me to send you the backlog?
14:28:37 <t> that’d be nice!
14:29:12 <karsten> sent.
14:29:13 <Letty> and i see, that the deadline is around june? that should be realistic, hopefully a little bit earlier :)
14:29:24 <karsten> oh, I totally picked that date at random.
14:29:49 <karsten> you know, the model for making this roadmap enforced having a date...
14:30:00 <karsten> what would be a better deadline?
14:30:48 <Letty> no its fine, we have a bit of a buffer if something goes wrong
14:30:54 <karsten> ok.
14:31:15 <karsten> I like this plan. but okay, I helped make it. any thoughts?
14:31:37 <Letty> i will start my part this weekend
14:32:09 <karsten> sounds great!
14:32:57 <karsten> okay, if there's no more feedback right now, should we move on?
14:33:09 <Letty> yes
14:33:18 <karsten> great! next item is:
14:33:19 <karsten> * Analytics server (thms)
14:33:25 <t> yep
14:34:16 <t> as you said above, JSON conversion is working. but Parquet is not. I’m working on that. Refactoring Java code currently. Being adventurous…
14:34:51 <karsten> hmm, was the parquet stuff not working before?
14:34:51 <t> But the next 2 weeks I’ll have holidays, so not much progress to be expected
14:35:32 <t> Right, it was, but only for one type of descriptor (the easiest one, Torperf). But tehn you picked on my Java code… ;-)
14:35:48 <karsten> okay. :)
14:36:03 <t> The JSON stuff could be used right away if someone was erally waiting for it
14:36:43 <t> although it has a few small bugs that I’m fixing during refactoring
14:36:51 <t> done
14:36:58 <karsten> what data do you have in json format for folks?
14:37:24 <karsten> and is it available for download, or would people have to convert data themselves?
14:37:41 <t> I didn’t generate anything significant besides testing. folks would have to download collector data and teh converter and run it on the commandline
14:37:56 <karsten> ah ok.
14:38:08 <t> it is readily packaged though, so it’s really just a download and and a command away
14:38:12 <karsten> maybe paste a link here, just to eliminate yet one more excuse for not trying.
14:39:20 <karsten> and after that let's move on. is robgjansen around?
14:39:21 <t> https://github.com/tomlurge/mteam/build/convert2json.jar
14:40:18 <karsten> t: not sure if people are into running .jar files. but the sources and instructions are just a few dirs up from that, I guess.
14:40:53 <karsten> okay, let's skip:
14:40:57 <t> that would be https://github.com/tomlurge/mteam/tree/master/build/convert2json
14:40:58 <karsten> * OnionPerf (robgjansen)
14:41:23 <karsten> t: well, or just https://github.com/tomlurge/mteam, right?
14:41:45 <t> karsten: of course
14:42:23 <karsten> ok. and if people would prefer to work with the json files without having to convert them, maybe let t know and he'll burn some cpu time on our dedicated server.
14:42:42 <karsten> well, if he likes to. :)
14:42:54 <karsten> okay, let's move on:
14:42:55 <karsten> * Roster (virgil, SeanSaito)
14:43:00 <karsten> virgil has left?
14:43:00 <t> after his vacations he might be inclined… ;-)
14:43:05 <karsten> t: hehe
14:43:12 <karsten> t: enjoy, btw!
14:43:31 <karsten> and SeanSaito is not around, either?
14:43:54 <karsten> hi virgil
14:43:57 <virgil> oh hai
14:43:59 <karsten> * Roster (virgil, SeanSaito)
14:44:07 <virgil> good timing?
14:44:13 <karsten> excellent timing
14:44:16 <virgil> Roster updates---Roster works!
14:44:17 <karsten> want to give an update?
14:44:20 <virgil> www.tor-roster.org
14:44:26 <virgil> getting prettier every day
14:44:38 <virgil> I hired a UX designer, you can see pretty pictures---1s.
14:45:08 <virgil> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3308162/pics.zip
14:45:31 <virgil> In short, Roster needs some polish and fleshing out, but the basics are all there.
14:45:42 <karsten> did you and sean ever get to the part of adding email notifications?
14:46:07 <karsten> there was this plan to make weather obsolete by having roster do that.
14:46:55 <virgil> Obsoleting Weather is indeed a goal.  Right now we are working on getting family-persistence working.
14:47:02 <Sebastian> (I have to leave for ~5min)
14:47:38 <virgil> right now we desperately desire some organizations/companies to get us swag that we can give to relay operators.
14:47:55 <virgil> and we can reward these to high-performing relay operators.
14:48:54 <virgil> see the pretty badges at the bottom of: http://www.tor-roster.org/family_detail/379FB450010D17078B3766C2273303C358C3A442
14:49:36 <karsten> the top 3 are somewhat broken here, I think.
14:49:52 <karsten> in chrome they look good, but not in my firefox.
14:50:11 <virgil> Sean nor myself are good at making pretty things.
14:50:22 <virgil> we hope aforementioned UX person can make that pleasant.
14:50:57 <virgil> ewww, that is painful in Firefox.
14:51:42 <karsten> but overall the site looks good!
14:51:57 <virgil> the goal is that eventually Roster will look vaguely like a Steam profile
14:51:59 <karsten> still hoping for the email thing to be implemented, so that we can finally retire weather. :)
14:52:30 <Letty> virgil: would be great if you minimize the third-party loadings for libs (jquery, bootstrap, font-awesome….)
14:52:49 <virgil> Letty: is this a security or performance concern?
14:53:03 <Sebastian> (re)
14:53:13 <virgil> letty: correction, is this a privacy or a performance concern?
14:53:35 <Letty> both. and you can make sure, that everything is laoded even if those sites are down
14:53:43 <karsten> good point.
14:53:47 <virgil> I think we are wedded to bootstrap.  But we can serve them locally.
14:53:51 <nickm> rehi
14:54:13 <Sebastian> nickm: metrics team meeting atm. hi!
14:54:14 <karsten> hi nickm!
14:54:33 <karsten> okay, I guess we'll have to move on to cover the remaining two items.
14:54:40 <virgil> Letty: totally on board with making things resilient.  And we can serve as much as possible locally.  However, I think the overhead from any use of these libraries is here to stay.
14:55:34 <karsten> aaand, moving on (sorry!):
14:55:36 <karsten> * website stats (karsten, Sebastian)
14:55:43 <karsten> what's your plan with that, Sebastian?
14:56:29 <Letty> virgil: oh absolutely use frameworks and libs! just host the things also in the same server. prevent hours of swearing :D
14:56:46 <virgil> Letty: will do :D
14:57:43 <karsten> Sebastian: still here?
14:58:56 <karsten> okay, we should figure out a plan for getting stats on tor browser downloads on the metrics website at some point.
14:59:09 <karsten> * Reminder: gsoc (Sebastian)
14:59:37 <karsten> I guess that's a reminder that we got into gsoc (yay!) and will soon be accepting student applications.
15:00:11 <karsten> but I don't know exactly. I decided against mentoring this summer. but maybe other people here would want to mentor.
15:00:27 <karsten> that's my guess what Sebastian wanted to remind us of.
15:00:37 <Sebastian> ugh
15:00:38 <Sebastian> sorry
15:00:39 <karsten> okay, we're past the 60 minutes. let's end this meeting.
15:00:41 <Sebastian> got disconnected
15:00:42 <Sebastian> sorry :(
15:00:43 <karsten> hello Sebastian! :)
15:00:46 <karsten> no worries.
15:00:54 <karsten> does the above roughly make sense?
15:01:16 <Sebastian> yeah, wanted to remind people that gsoc is a thing and they can apply
15:01:23 <karsten> ah, a reminder for students!
15:01:24 <Sebastian> or even mentor!
15:01:26 <Letty> if we have a student that want to make some nice viz.. i can mentor, but i guess that will not happen :D
15:01:39 <Sebastian> It has to be coding-related.
15:01:59 <karsten> well, it would be. we just didn't put up an idea for that.
15:02:09 <Sebastian> There's still time.
15:02:15 <t> does Tor have a ist of proposals or do stiudents propose?
15:02:20 <Sebastian> t: both
15:02:34 <t> where’s the list?
15:02:43 <Sebastian> https://www.torproject.org/about/gsoc.html.en
15:02:51 <t> thanks!
15:03:01 <Sebastian> and ideas at https://www.torproject.org/getinvolved/volunteer.html.en#Projects
15:03:20 <Letty> Sebastian: i mean coded viz.. not illustrator stuff
15:03:43 <Sebastian> Letty: perfect
15:04:18 <karsten> who would t and Letty talk to to get involved as student or mentor?
15:04:39 <t> karsten maybe?
15:04:41 <karsten> well, or others.
15:05:00 <karsten> heh, okay, sure.
15:05:03 <Letty> karsten: mentor! i'm not a student anymore
15:05:16 <Sebastian> karsten: would you backup mentor for Letty?
15:05:25 <Sebastian> or rather not?
15:05:31 <karsten> backup sounds fine.
15:05:38 <Sebastian> Otherwise we'd need to find a backup mentor, but... nvm :)
15:06:29 <Sebastian> ok, endmeeting?
15:06:32 <karsten> okay, cool. I'd say let's take this offline.
15:06:34 <karsten> yep!
15:06:37 <karsten> #endmeeting