13:31:11 <nickm> #startmeeting
13:31:11 <MeetBot> Meeting started Wed Jul 29 13:31:11 2015 UTC.  The chair is nickm. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
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13:31:13 <nickm> hi all
13:31:26 <teor> hi nickm
13:32:04 <teor> , isabela, all
13:32:19 <nickm> hi ... teor, isabela ... yawning, asn_ , karsten, athena, dgoulet ?
13:32:51 <dgoulet> hello!
13:32:52 <asn_> hello
13:32:55 <Yawning> hi
13:32:57 <karsten> hello!
13:33:03 <Yawning> still sick, still behind on papwerwork
13:33:08 <Yawning> cuz I'm a bad person
13:33:11 <Yawning> :(
13:33:49 <nickm> so, over the last week I put out a tor release and did lots of paperwork and stuff
13:34:02 <athena> hi meeting!
13:34:04 <nickm> hi athena !
13:34:23 <nickm> and I've been trying to merge patches and I wrote a couple of proposals and i met up with a couple of ntru people
13:34:42 <Yawning> nickm: their code needs uh
13:34:45 <Yawning> some changes
13:35:00 <nickm> which code, how so?
13:35:02 <Yawning> unless they fixed the stuff from that cisco dude's paper
13:35:11 <Yawning> their key generation algorithm is fucked
13:35:28 <Yawning> so the security level provided is 2^80 vs a quantum puter
13:35:47 <Yawning> (using a SHA1 DRBG for kegen is a terrible idea kids, don't do it)
13:36:23 <nickm> and I've also been scrambling to get as much stuff done by end-of-month as I can
13:36:43 <nickm> Yawning: if it's just drop-in-a-better-drbg, that's in our area of knowledge
13:36:44 <Yawning> nickm: https://eprint.iacr.org/2015/676
13:36:46 <nickm> how are others doing?
13:37:12 <asn_> ehm hello
13:37:17 <asn_> i came back from the HS meeting in DC a week ago
13:37:24 <asn_> we wrote lots of proposals and stuff.
13:37:40 <asn_> i'm still a bit disoriented, but I'm getting back into Tor development.
13:37:57 <asn_> i finished the important stuff i hadn't done because of the meeting
13:38:04 <asn_> which is that annoying guardfraction bug #16255
13:38:20 <asn_> i made a patch for that that hopefully fixes it. it really needs review from someone who knows voting better than me.
13:38:31 <asn_> i'm also under the process of reviewing donncha's #14846
13:38:43 <asn_> and i still need to write the shared randomness proposal with dgoulet
13:39:00 <asn_> and also read the thread of the guard discovery proposal and update it appropriately
13:39:20 <asn_> i also have 2-3 tickets on my review pile. as well as some more review of onionbalance.
13:39:33 <asn_> then i would work on the guard algorithms.
13:39:47 <asn_> (which are pretty much necessary for doing guard discovery defences or anything else guard related)
13:39:53 <asn_> that's my tor life currently.
13:39:57 <asn_> next?
13:40:09 <teor> drowning in paperwork, proposals, and meatspace errors - no coding, sadly.
13:40:12 <dgoulet> pretty much the same as asn_ (except for guard and ticket review), I'm still working on R stuff from that meeting (that is still ongoing over there). So my tor dev. side is a bit slow in the coming days unfortunately.
13:41:11 <Yawning> (I'll go after dgoulet)
13:41:22 * dgoulet done :)
13:41:26 <Yawning> oh
13:41:33 <Yawning> wrote/merged some trivial patches
13:42:04 <athena> i've got the ability to classify the dir_indirection_t and source of incoming dirauth connections now; building a mechanism to count them by origin and then we'll have DoS-resistant dirauths for #4581
13:42:25 <Yawning> burried in paperwork and meatspace errors (my meat is failing due to virial infection, and my government is failing due to EFASCISM)
13:42:30 <Yawning> that's about it
13:42:41 <Yawning> I'll catch up on paperwork by the end of the week
13:42:43 <Yawning> since I need to
13:42:54 <Yawning> not sure when meat will be fixed
13:43:09 <nickm> athena: got any ETAs on that patch?
13:43:12 <athena> (sorry Yawning; thought you'd finished there)
13:43:26 <athena> probably next week; not too much left now
13:43:45 <Yawning> athena: it's fine, done etc :P
13:44:02 <Yawning> I'm also glad to see that 0.2.7.2 didn't immediately explode with all teh crypto stuff that cot changed
13:44:02 <nickm> great.  BTW, when you do your timesheet, remember to call the DoS stuff "Sponsor U"
13:44:03 <Yawning> *got
13:44:08 <athena> nickm: okay, sure
13:44:20 <nickm> s7r: yeah, though apparently s7r has been filing some bugs
13:44:29 <nickm> err, Yawning ^
13:44:49 <Yawning> nickm: what I've seen looked mostly like teething pains from the key alg move
13:45:15 <Yawning> rather than "we screwed a lot wioth the openssl code" "I replaced the ntor keygen code and the ed25519 code"
13:45:18 <Yawning> :P
13:45:18 <dgoulet> yeah I'm also happy that in 027, HS didn't explode :)
13:45:54 <Yawning> cuz I think this is the first time that the openssl stuff in particular hit non #yolo users
13:46:35 <teor> My next task is #15775 - whitelisting fallback dirs for our first release, ensuring clients won't DoS old relay IPs, and drafting a "please sign up as a fallback dir" email, along with a wiki page explaining why we need fallbacks. A lot of work, happy to delegate.
13:47:12 <teor> Or link to existing resources instead of a writing a wiki page from scratch
13:49:00 <nickm> ok. anybody else want to report in, or should we forge ahead?
13:49:45 <nickm> ok, any topics to talk aobut today other than "here comes august!"?
13:50:08 <Yawning> "paperwork makes yawning sad"
13:50:20 <teor> I'll swap you
13:50:51 <Yawning> is your country on fire?
13:51:28 <teor> My country is blocking websites and keeping records of every contact people make on the Internet
13:51:45 <Yawning> sounds about as bad
13:52:02 <Yawning> my country is trying to get an excuse to play Global Thermonuclear War with China
13:52:09 <Yawning> but they don't block websites as far as I know
13:52:20 <teor> Nah, we're just serially invading the Middle East
13:52:39 <Yawning> (I think we can move on)
13:53:05 <teor> There was an article that came out about the electricity / environmental cost of a bitcoin transaction
13:53:15 <teor> Has anyone done anything similar for Tor?
13:53:25 <Yawning> don't think so
13:53:32 <isabela> should we talk about august stuff?
13:53:35 <Yawning> the cyrpto involved for tor isn't that expensive
13:53:38 <Yawning> isabela: probably
13:53:41 <isabela> :)
13:53:53 <isabela> did everyone saw my email yesterday (sorry for the short notice)
13:53:54 <Yawning> is this a "I shouldn't have ignored that e-mail" moment for me?
13:53:54 <teor> please, I'm just generating random ideas
13:53:56 <Yawning> :P
13:54:07 <isabela> hehe
13:54:17 <isabela> well
13:54:42 <isabela> pretty much a couple weeks ago we spoke about using the same method TBB is using to tag tickets that needs to be done for the month
13:54:43 <teor> (I am not on the private list yet, people want to meet me at a conference)
13:55:00 <Yawning> (The private list is overrated)
13:55:16 <isabela> I listed a few cases trying to explain how to elect these tickets
13:55:20 <nickm> https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/query?status=!closed&keywords=~TorCoreTeam201507
13:55:22 <Yawning> ah I see
13:55:23 <asn_> i read the email
13:55:27 <nickm> here's what's left in July
13:55:30 <isabela> yes
13:55:39 <isabela> and teor has already added a ticket for august
13:55:45 <isabela> https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/query?status=!closed&keywords=~TorCoreTeam201508
13:55:48 <isabela> :)
13:56:08 <Yawning> so what, should IU just tag stuff I'm planning on doing?
13:56:11 <nickm> I have work-in-progress for #15055, #12748, and #13996
13:56:24 <nickm> so they seem like clear things-to-do-for-August
13:56:35 <nickm> err, not #13996
13:56:42 <nickm> #13966 is the one I have wip for
13:57:05 <isabela> Yawning: yes, not only what you wants to do, but also things you know should be done even if you can't do them
13:57:21 * nickm moves those 3 tickets
13:57:31 <isabela> Yawning: the idea is that as we move along the month, whenever someones is looking for something else to do, the person should look at this list first
13:57:40 <dgoulet> I think I can maybe manage to have #16389 and #16274 done by August 1st
13:57:43 <Yawning> ah I see
13:57:57 <nickm> dgoulet: ok, then let's not move them now?
13:58:04 <nickm> I believe you; there's not so much there
13:58:10 <dgoulet> nickm: yeah let's keep them july for now
13:58:41 <teor> I've moved #15775 to August, it's big and not going to get done in 2 days
13:58:52 <nickm> Didn't somebody start on #2555 ?
13:59:02 <dgoulet> nickm: special
13:59:03 <nickm> I thought I saw some tor-dev chatter about that
13:59:14 <Yawning> *adds* #16533
13:59:23 <dgoulet> nickm: special is the owner of that ticket :)
13:59:23 <Yawning> (I'll just do it)
14:01:15 <isabela> oi asn
14:01:41 <nickm> asn: is there a ticket for that "guard design writeup" thing that you wanted to do?  Will it happen in August? If so let's tag it.
14:01:48 <nickm> (We're tagging things with TorCoreTeam201508)
14:01:49 <isabela> asn: the guard stuff can be added to august too - also the clearning thing you mentioned, even if you dont have time to do it
14:02:37 <Yawning> orCoreTeam201508 oops >.>
14:02:44 * isabela keeps updating the query and seeing more tickets :)
14:03:16 <asn_2> ok
14:03:20 <isabela> !
14:03:26 <asn_2> ok let's try this one. tor +oftc is going crazy.
14:03:32 <asn_2> so what are we doing now?
14:03:46 <isabela> 10:02 < nickm> asn: is there a ticket for that "guard design writeup" thing that you wanted to do?  Will it happen in August? If so let's tag it.
14:03:49 <isabela> 10:02 < nickm> (We're tagging things with TorCoreTeam201508)
14:04:01 <asn_2> i can use #12595 for it
14:04:19 <asn_2> i definitely plan to start on august yes.
14:04:35 <Yawning> *adds some other stuff*
14:04:46 <asn_2> i can _probably_ have an initial version done by the end of august.
14:04:50 <Yawning> not sure if I want to overcommit here
14:04:51 <isabela> asn_2: aslo, what was the cleaning guard stuff you mention via email / even if it's not you necessary doing it
14:04:54 <a00001> Hi, there. I'm writing a pluggable transport process manager.. Something like fog minus the chaning and with full support for cli/serv.. One question about the pt-spec, is it allowed for a transport to be both client and server at once? the obfs4 code does not allow it but I did not see the spec saying that it's forbidden (?)
14:04:58 <Yawning> since I play cleanup an ok amount
14:05:13 <asn_2> a00001: wow!
14:05:15 <Yawning> a00001: every single pt will breat probably
14:05:22 <Yawning> *break
14:05:23 <asn_2> isabela: hm
14:05:25 <nickm> asn: thanks; I modified the ticket
14:05:26 <asn_2> isabela: cleaning guard stuff?
14:05:31 <asn_2> maybe i need to re-read that email
14:05:32 <Yawning> so "no, it's not allowed"
14:05:34 <isabela> asn_2: let me find your email
14:05:44 <asn_2> Of course, to implement that proposal we will first need to clean up
14:05:44 <asn_2> the whole guard code :)
14:05:46 <asn_2> there it is ^
14:06:14 <nickm> I think we're ready to move on #13338 in august too, and do more of #16505.
14:06:15 <asn_2> i meant, that to do further defences/improvements on the guard subsystem
14:06:26 <asn_2> we probably need to figure out the algorithms/API first, and rewrite/clean up the current code
14:06:28 <asn> hello did i miss somehting
14:06:29 <asn> ?
14:06:29 <asn_2> before we can do more advanced mods to it.
14:06:48 <nickm> (which is the real asn?)
14:06:51 <asn_2> (wow nvm asn)
14:06:55 <asn_2> (i'm the real asn!)
14:07:07 <Yawning> nickm: yeah kick 13338 into august
14:07:08 <asn> asn_2 is the real asn.
14:07:14 <Yawning> I think a rough consensus has been established there
14:07:27 <Yawning> but I won't get around to doing all the stuff till august sometime
14:08:33 <nickm> there are 10 things left in the july ticket
14:09:10 <nickm> athena said she'd finish #4581 in a week, probably, so i'll move that one to august
14:09:20 <Yawning> #15463 deferable
14:09:41 <Yawning> plus no one's complained after we fixed the easy ways t sploit that
14:09:42 <isabela> nickm: 3 of those are wainting for review
14:09:46 <nickm> tto august or never?
14:09:53 <Yawning> august for now
14:10:00 <Yawning> I have some other stuff I want to add there
14:10:19 <Yawning> (an token bucket for INTRO2 processing, with drop semantics)
14:10:43 <Yawning> (yes, it's another knob, but it'll keep tor from crumpling)
14:10:59 <nickm> #16255 I should try to review RSN, so leaving in july for today
14:11:12 <asn> ack
14:11:26 <asn> i expect to spend some of august on guardfraction stuff again
14:11:32 <asn> since there might be mods i need to do to the #16255 branch
14:11:35 <asn> or something.
14:11:36 <Yawning> (unless people think i'ts a bad idea)
14:11:42 <nickm> asn: should I move that to august?
14:11:47 <nickm> Yawning: seems plausible to me
14:12:01 <asn> nickm: depending on the output of the review, maybe.
14:12:53 <nickm> ok, moving
14:12:56 <asn> (seems like tor+irc works again. i log off from my other client.)
14:13:50 <dgoulet> nickm: hrm you flagged #16274 to august but I can do it for july I think so I'll keyword back ok?
14:13:55 <nickm> ok
14:14:19 <nickm> and that leaves #2665 and #2555 as the ones in July still that nobody has said "yeah, august" for
14:14:25 <nickm> For #2665 we can ask special when
14:14:28 <asn> #2555 i think special has a proposal almost ready
14:14:34 <dgoulet> special: is #2555 realists for July?
14:14:37 <nickm> for #2665, I dunno.
14:15:03 <asn> the current #2555 proposal is here: https://gitweb.torproject.org/user/special/torspec.git/log/?h=xxx-direct-onion
14:15:18 <asn> but there is probably a reason special hasn't posted it yet.
14:15:29 <nickm> we should ask and find out. :)
14:15:35 <Yawning> xwrits, brb 5 mins (unless y'all don't need me for anything)
14:15:44 <dgoulet> special should wake up in a few hours :)
14:17:07 <isabela> cool
14:17:16 <isabela> this is looking great folks!
14:17:18 <nickm> Does everybody have enough stuff to do in August? I feel like I do, but am not so sure of other folks
14:17:25 <nickm> probably many folks do
14:17:29 <asn> i also really wanted to do #12538
14:17:34 <asn> but i doubt i will have time for it in august
14:17:42 <dgoulet> ah yes ^!
14:17:45 <isabela> asn: add it for now and we will move it to sept if you dont
14:17:47 <asn> my plate is definitely full for august.
14:17:53 <isabela> ah
14:17:55 <isabela> ok
14:17:58 <nickm> I want to finish up #13339 too.
14:18:21 <dgoulet> august is looking interesting for me as well for now
14:19:07 <nickm> I should also take on all those tickets s7r has been opening
14:20:00 * isabela hopes that this will be helpful on making sure important things are done and we always have a place to pick up work from.. and of course, helping you know what is coming and how things looks like for the month
14:21:48 <Yawning> ok xwrits is letting me type again
14:22:04 <Yawning> apart from all my paperwork does anything else need my immediate attention
14:22:27 <nickm> not immediately fwict
14:22:32 <Yawning> ok
14:22:55 <nickm> also fwiw, we have 4x tickets in "new" that we should probably make "accepted" or kick into a later release
14:23:06 <nickm> I'm happy to make the calls I can make on that. Anybody want to help?
14:23:50 <dgoulet> shoot
14:23:50 <asn> which one are these?
14:24:36 <nickm> these : https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/query?status=new&milestone=Tor%3A+0.2.7.x-final&group=status&max=200&order=priority
14:25:18 <Yawning> *looks*
14:25:49 <dgoulet> ok what,s the procedure here? tag them with a date keyword or Version or ?
14:26:40 <nickm> If triaging them in, make them "accepted".  If triaging them out, change the milestone to 0.2.8 or 0.2.???.  If not sure, leave as "new"
14:27:11 <asn> i know sysrqb spent some hours thinkiong about #13207. not sure what was decided.
14:27:33 <asn> #15744 seems deferrable for now. dgoulet increased the limit there. and the new values seem ok.
14:28:08 <nickm> dgoulet: you agree?
14:29:03 <dgoulet> asn: I don't have a compelling arg. to change that limit to right now it's rand(16k,32k), I'm fine with it for now
14:29:08 <dgoulet> nickm: ^
14:29:22 <nickm> dgoulet: then close or defer? :)
14:29:30 <Yawning> *accepts some stuff*
14:29:39 <asn> #15714 and #15746 also seem related, dgoulet.
14:29:52 <asn> i would be fine with deferring all of these for now. (?)
14:29:57 <dgoulet> asn: +1
14:30:46 <asn> dgoulet: wanna do the honors
14:30:47 <asn> ?
14:30:50 <dgoulet> asn: sure
14:30:57 <nickm> I think the meeting part of the meeting may be over. :)
14:31:29 <asn> i made #16387  and i admit it's too generic.
14:31:41 <dgoulet> asn: I think #13207, we can totally do it for August, sysrqb did most of the work
14:31:46 * dgoulet flagging
14:31:57 <asn> ok
14:33:11 <nickm> #endmeeting