18:00:03 #startmeeting 18:00:03 Meeting started Tue Nov 1 18:00:03 2016 UTC. The chair is lamby. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 18:00:03 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 18:00:08 Hello all o/ 18:00:10 hi 18:00:20 hey HW42 18:00:37 o/ 18:00:45 hello 18:00:46 #topic Introductions 18:00:51 So who is around? :) 18:00:54 * danielsh Daniel Shahaf 18:01:01 * lamby Chris Lamb 18:01:05 * HW42 18:01:19 Emanuel Bronshtein 18:01:19 * deki 18:01:39 … and who does /not/ have tea :) 18:02:06 * mapreri — with tea 18:02:09 \o/ 18:02:15 * NewGnuGuy Recent free software convert and random guy from the internet 18:02:25 Hey nice to meet you 18:02:30 welcome :) 18:02:40 We are all randoms from the internet in some way… 18:02:53 * h01ger waves 18:03:09 Evening h01ger 18:03:09 * NewGnuGuy waves back 18:03:11 * h01ger is glad to finally made it to this meeting 18:04:34 looks like pabs is lurking! :3 18:04:38 Great 18:04:45 #topic apologies 18:04:54 Anyone know anyone who said they couldn't make it? :) 18:05:53 good that's easy 18:05:57 hey vagrantc 18:06:08 * vagrantc waves 18:06:35 #save 18:06:37 right 18:06:38 * h01ger waves back 18:06:39 * boklm is lurking too (but also in an other meeting at the same time) 18:06:44 #topic Summit updates 18:07:02 You should have received an email re the summit 18:07:06 (from h01ger0 18:07:17 If you have not replied, please do so ASAP 18:07:25 even if you replied earlier! 18:07:26 whether that's a yes or a no 18:07:56 vagrantc: backlog at http://meetbot.debian.net/reproducible-builds/2016/reproducible-builds.2016-11-01-18.00.log.txt though you only missed the introductions… 18:08:09 Any other updates…? There's a bunch of Stuff happening but none of it very revelant to everyone here 18:08:20 Any /questions/ about the summit? (might be easier that way around) 18:08:33 h01ger: thanks 18:08:40 (apparently the caterer selection is hot) 18:08:41 One question; who is *not* going to the summit here? 18:08:42 lamby: see query please 18:08:59 #save 18:09:00 h01ger: what do you mean with "even if you replied earlier"? 18:10:25 HW42: some people replied end of september / early october on the date query… thats not enough, if you intend to attend, you need to (have) sent me a mail saying so after october 23rd (the day the "real" invitations were sent) 18:10:31 * emaste a slightly belated Ed Maste 18:10:38 regarding summit food: 18:10:43 NewGnuGuy: You are going to the Reproducible summit? https://reproducible-builds.org/events/berlin2016/ 18:11:01 i have canceled our caterer and am looking for a new caterer. if you have suggestions (in Berlin!) please talk to me 18:11:12 regarding sharing accomodation: 18:11:34 someone should start a thread on the mailinglist regarding sharing accomodation. who's someone? 18:11:45 lamby: no, I'm nowhere near Berlin 18:11:56 h01ger: i'll start a thread about accomodations 18:12:10 NewGnuGuy: Best thing to do would be to email h01ger after this meeting and see what we can do about that. 18:12:15 vagrantc: thanks! 18:12:17 #info if you intend to attend the 2nd reproducible builds summit, please confirm to holger (if you havent done so in the last week. earlier confirmations were not recorded) 18:12:25 vagrantc: thank you 18:12:26 #action vagrantc start a thread about sharing accomodations 18:12:34 lamby: please do save 18:12:38 #save even 18:12:39 #save 18:13:23 * dkg dkg is present (sorry for delay) 18:13:26 Cool, I think anybody with any summit queries can probably raise them separately as they are likely niche 18:13:30 hi dkg 18:13:35 (or raise them on the mailing list) 18:13:37 * h01ger has nothing more to say about the summit here and now. (its publically recorded forever) 18:13:59 If you think you should be on the summit ML but have not got an email about it, email lamby@debian.org 18:14:09 right, next topic 18:14:14 #topic Blog post frequency check-in 18:14:22 Is infinity0 about? 18:14:29 infinity0: ping 18:14:34 yes, still working on my patches 18:14:39 meeting is now? 18:14:43 Yes… 18:15:08 Can you comment on how the blog post frequency writing is working for you? Okay? 18:15:44 lamby: please tell me about the people who think they should be on the summit ML but arent, because this might indicate inconsistancy in my data too 18:15:46 I can reorder this item for later in the meeting if you are caught blind-sided. Let me know so we can move on ASAP (already 25% of the way through here…) 18:15:51 h01ger: ack 18:15:59 no the current frequency is ok 18:16:02 * h01ger doesnt understand the topic 18:16:06 the frequency is weekly… 18:16:34 Frequency is bad word sorry. It's a follow-up from discussion of >= 24 hours for drafts, etc. etc. 18:17:04 It was "ah, fine enough" last meeting, but I wanted to bring it up again. 18:17:08 * h01ger thinks 24h is a good delay. if, i'd prefer 36h or 30h… 18:17:11 Cool, nothing really to discuss. 18:17:39 lamby: you gave it two minutes, less after clarifying… (=a bit slower please) 18:17:51 lamby: That latency more than it is frequency. 18:18:15 s/That/That is/ 18:18:15 NewGnuGuy: Mm, I picked the wrong word, my apologies. 18:18:29 * h01ger can hardly follow and IME i'm rather fast at ircing 18:19:02 the latency is also fine 18:19:03 (I am not going normal pace on this topic as it the third time is come up with no real issues and I can see more meaty things later…) 18:19:25 * h01ger did a general comment on the speed but agrees this topic seems mood 18:19:34 moot? 18:19:50 btw, great job, lamby and infinity0 with doing these weekly posts! 18:19:56 * vagrantc concurs 18:20:04 * h01ger still smiles every time i see them on planet.d.o 18:20:10 :) 18:20:38 I'm going to move on; we can return later. 18:20:40 #agreed Keep blog frequency and draft→published latency as they are 18:20:47 #topic tracker for reproducible-builds.org 18:21:01 h01ger: you added this ^ can you run this topic please? 18:21:06 * h01ger didnt have time to try out the new system yet 18:21:06 (I think you added this anyway) 18:21:21 * dkg concurs about the goodness of seeing them on p.d.o 18:21:29 which reminded me of a downside of a distributed system: its not usable with a webbrowser for everyone easily 18:21:32 this is the taskwarrior based issue tracker? 18:21:38 vagrantc: yes 18:21:42 (ie. tasks.git?) 18:21:52 has anyone besides infinity0 (and me, partly) tried it? 18:22:12 * vagrantc will give it a test run today 18:22:19 #info please try tasks.git and report back on the list 18:22:23 i have a couple issues it might be worth adding 18:22:27 :) 18:22:44 probably wouldn't be hard to at least add a web view of the tasks, no? 18:22:59 not that i'm committing to it :) 18:23:01 vagrantc: it's task warrior = i have no idea :) 18:23:08 it has a json export format 18:23:11 If someone adds "try tasks.git" to tasks.git I might go insane :) 18:23:18 lamby: *g* 18:23:21 shouldn't be hard to write something that generates a simple html out of that 18:23:30 danielsh: *if* we use the system 18:23:31 It's "just git", right? *g* 18:23:41 * h01ger is totally not clear on that yet 18:23:45 h01ger, yes I'm describing the current taskwarrior-based system 18:24:00 % ./task list 18:24:00 ID Age Description Urg 18:24:00 1 8d Add our initial tasks 0.04 18:24:01 danielsh: if we rewrite a webfrontend, we should use a tracker which has a webfrontend 18:24:06 lamby: ↑ isn't this meta enough? ;) 18:24:11 fwiw, it's not "just git" -- it's "please execute arbitrary code from this repo" 18:24:23 h01ger, there may be one already, I didn't check. 18:24:26 yeah, that part weirded me out a bit ... 18:24:32 dkg: i saw / suspected such… 18:24:35 fairly easy to review and understand, but yeah 18:25:01 i do like that the column heading is "Urg" though -- that matches my gut reaction ;) 18:25:07 #info tracker issue still unclear, more research (by more users) needed 18:25:12 dkg: lol 18:25:14 lamby: actually i already added "add more tasks" to tasks.git :p 18:25:16 next topic? 18:25:20 nod 18:25:28 #topic DDPO & json 18:25:28 unless infinity0 has something to add. 18:25:51 i can look into html export but i'd say it's low-priority, it was meant for small-scale use anyway 18:26:10 taskwarrior does already have some fairly pretty output 18:26:33 infinity0: ack & next? 18:26:35 sure 18:26:44 h01ger: Can you a) outline how we left DDPO? b) are you happy with that? 18:26:55 * h01ger didnt have time yet to look/think about DDPO+json since the last meeting 18:27:13 That's no problem 18:27:22 infinity0: added a task for you :P 18:27:23 so i would defer to next meeting in two weeks 18:27:23 Do you like how it's left? (ie. can you speak to 'b') 18:27:46 lamby: obviously no :) 18:27:59 Okaley (I just couldn't remember) 18:28:16 Alternatively, you could re-surface the mailing list post with a ping. Which would you like to do? 18:28:16 looks like a taskwarrior export-html already exists 18:28:34 lamby: defer/move to next meeting 18:28:35 (Lets move on from taskwarrior please; we can bring it up later) 18:28:38 ack 18:28:59 #agreed Defer DDPO+json discussion for the next meeting 18:29:20 #topic Logo 18:29:23 Cool 18:29:50 * h01ger doesnt like this topic as suggested on the agenda 18:29:54 for two reasons: 18:29:55 We want a logo for the reproducible builds project. There are a number of sub-points to this topic. 18:30:13 * h01ger shuts up and will chime in in a moment 18:30:32 Let's keep as much meta-stuff to "any other business" as possible :) 18:30:42 So, we have a bunch of contributions here: https://wiki.debian.org/ReproducibleBuilds/Logo 18:31:01 I've sent it around to a few designer people and others have done the same (I saw it on Reddit, for example) 18:31:09 frankly, /me doesnt think any of these suggestions are any good. yet. 18:31:13 Please forward to all interested parties and/or add your own suggestions 18:31:34 is there a canonical link for a call for logo proposals? 18:31:35 h01ger: Sorry to hear that, but I think being positive will help encourage others. 18:31:45 * neverpanic is very late, but also here. 18:31:49 some have nice ideas, but none work as a logo. so voting now would be premature, IMO. and i'm also generally unconvinced of the voting idea. 18:32:00 I don't think we are voting? 18:32:12 I haven't brought up that as an idea yet 18:32:13 lamby: totally agree and sorry that the agenda made me so negative. i feel rushed… 18:32:14 The reproducible builds logo should itself be reproducible :P 18:32:26 emaste: https://wiki.debian.org/ReproducibleBuilds/Logo 18:32:27 NewGnuGuy: amusing but good point 18:32:31 #info https://wiki.debian.org/ReproducibleBuilds/Logo 18:32:55 h01ger: yes, but that's a collection of existing submissions -- where should someone send their submission? 18:33:09 i'd like to see more exploration on logos outside of the circle theme, fwiw 18:33:12 emaste: Simply attach to that page please :) 18:33:17 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:DrawingHands.jpg :) 18:33:23 but i really really really want to destroy the idea of rushing into a vote for a logo. we want a logo, a logo would be useful, but we dont need one and a bad logo is a waste of effort 18:33:46 h01ger: You are jumping ahead and assuming things, sorry 18:33:47 DrawingHands.jpg ! 18:33:51 dkg: please add that to the page. bonus points if you modify it a bit :) 18:33:54 lamby: I mean if someone (outside of a wiki.debian.org account holder) makes a candidate logo, what should they do with it :) 18:33:58 h01ger: i don't think anyone's talked about voting except for you.... 18:34:04 lamby: i follow https://pad.riseup.net/p/reproducible-irc-meeting-3 - sorry 18:34:22 vagrantc: the agenda has a point about voting soonish 18:34:26 putting agendas in a pad has effects 18:34:38 Oh, nice, variants of Escher paintings are a really good analogy! 18:34:40 h01ger: Then you are likely misreading/misinterpreting my quick scribbles without letting me bring them up here. 18:35:11 lamby: then i suggest to keep agendas short and explain them at due time (or well in advance) 18:35:12 does someone understand #6 18:35:25 * vagrantc somehow missed the agenda 18:35:43 the agenda sounds like as if someone would push for a logo by the end of the month. 18:35:45 vagrantc: https://wiki.debian.org/ReproducibleBuilds/Logo 18:35:57 are we talking about selecting or explaining logos right now, or are we trying to figure out how to get the word out? 18:36:00 I think 7 day are too short. especially since a logo is a nice to have 18:36:03 h01ger: no 18:36:06 dkg: neither 18:36:25 * lamby simply regrets adding it to the agenda now. 18:36:26 dkg: good question. i think we want to publish the idea that we want a logo, but got sidetracked 18:36:28 what's the goal regarding a timeline on the logo? 18:36:46 want it in time for the summit so materials can have it? 18:36:54 vagrantc: its too late for that now 18:37:27 I don't believe it is too late. However, it /would/ mean having a tight deadline. If we are not happy with that, then that is perfectly fine. 18:37:53 If we /are/ happy with that, then we should try and fix some kind of schedule. 18:37:58 i think it's not necessary to have it before the summit, let's just take it easy 18:38:18 Either is fine with me, it's just would be silly to try and make the summit but fail by only (say) 24h, timing wise! 18:38:22 I'm in a project that selected a logo by a vote of contributors, and it's really not a good plan 18:38:24 * h01ger hasnt seen any proposal which he thinks is good yet 18:38:24 Hence why I bring it up now. 18:38:52 next topic, perhaps? 18:38:53 the summit will be fine without a logo, so let's not try to make an arbitrarily tight deadline 18:39:20 Totally agree 18:39:25 while i don't see selecting a logo as immutable, i also don't see the need to rush into a decision 18:39:38 It just would be "nice" to give out t-shirts or blah. Next time :) 18:40:05 Worse t-shirts will be for rws3 :) 18:40:07 we could use an empty rectangle like hpe.com ;) 18:40:13 bad h01ger 18:40:14 heh 18:40:15 I hat that logo 18:40:23 hate, even 18:40:25 #agreed No need to rush into logo decision to make summit deadline 18:41:35 (The item in the agenda did have a question mark at the end so was merely a suggestion!) 18:41:43 :) 18:41:45 #topic upcoming events 1/2: libreplanet 18:42:10 vagrantc: you were going to speak to spectranaut re. non-overlapping proposals, etc. IIRC? 18:42:28 lamby: spectranaut basically just said to go for it, from what i recall 18:42:51 i'm planning on being there, so i'll get a proposal together 18:42:58 this is next march in boston? 18:43:09 i might be up for that 18:43:11 march 25th/26th 18:43:12 Yes, but CfP closes v. soon. 18:43:19 CfP closes november 14th 18:43:32 ah ok, maybe not then. but i might show up and give support :) 18:43:38 Can you clarify "go for it"? The idea was to submit two talks IIRC and we didn't want them to overlap (can end up with no talk accepted) 18:43:41 vagrantc: ^ 18:43:48 lamby: i didn't catch that idea 18:43:53 why two talks? 18:44:08 lamby: i don't get the impression that spectranaut intended to submit a talk 18:44:26 vagrantc: Then I misunderstood. I was under the impression she was going to do that. 18:44:49 vagrantc: can you check the minutes of the last meeting and followup if necessary, otherwise we can just leave it with you. :) 18:44:52 *leave it with you? 18:45:19 if nobody else is intending to submit, i'll at least submit something 18:45:37 there's still time, maybe spectranaut will just reply later today… :) 18:45:39 but sure, i'll double-check what we agreed to and follow-up and submit 18:45:57 vagrantc: Can we leave it that, in the default, you will submit a talk? That way we don't end up with zero talks :) 18:46:09 #info vagrant will coordinate with spectranaut and submit 1-2 talks for libreplanet in march 2017 18:46:10 lamby: yes, i will submit a talk regardless :) 18:46:38 Eccellente. 18:46:51 vagrantc: thanks! 18:46:57 awesome 18:47:12 Silly early CfP deadlines… 18:47:28 #topic upcoming events 2/2: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianEvents/gb/2016/MiniDebConfCambridge 18:47:51 I've submitted a talk proposal to Sledge cc/ h01ger. First, who else will be there? 18:48:01 * vagrantc notes SeaGL soon as a potential 3 of 3, but maybe doesn't need mentioning 18:48:13 And of those, who would love to speak as well? :) 18:48:21 do we really have enough material for two talks? 18:48:33 infinity0: yes. for 3 18:49:09 like what? i'm skeptical 18:49:12 (the general one, about debian/fedora/lede/foo, about issues and how to fix them, about the arm zoo, about the website…) 18:49:41 * vagrantc won't be there 18:50:03 Can we stick to the topic? (sorry, some people have expressed hard 19h00 UTC deadlines to leave…) 18:50:07 well alright, if someone wants to do those 18:50:22 the topic is cambridge 18:50:38 Sounds like it's just us in Cambridge h01ger ! 18:50:51 Although you were not 100% last time I queried… can you update? 18:51:00 still same 18:51:19 If anyone is on the fence, this is quite a big minidebconf… 150 people or so. 18:51:44 Probably bigger this year due to many people not making DebConf in south africa and wanting to "make up" 18:52:03 oh this went right over my head. perhaps i'll come 18:52:19 "right over my head" ? 18:52:45 i didn't know about it until you guys just mentioned it 18:53:09 https://wiki.debian.org/DebianEvents/gb/2016/MiniDebConfCambridge 18:53:11 It was in the ag… nevermind :) 18:54:47 Righto 18:54:55 if you want backup and i do come, then yes i can help. will let you know in the next 2-3 days 18:55:06 there was a 3rd event 18:55:06 infinity0: More people always welcome 18:55:18 * | vagrantc notes SeaGL soon as a potential 3 of 3, but maybe doesn't need mentioning 18:55:26 Good spot 18:55:34 vagrantc: what needs to be done re. SeaGL? 18:55:58 #topic upcoming events 3/2: SeaGL 18:56:21 nothing really 18:56:32 other than i guess mentioning in the weekly ? 18:56:45 although it was already mentioned earlier, it's almost happening ... 18:56:46 hasnt it been there already? :) 18:56:51 next week? 18:56:55 h01ger: well, that's my question 18:57:05 h01ger: do we re-announce events as they are closer? 18:57:14 vagrantc: i think its great to mention it again in the weekly news 18:57:24 Yes, ack that point 18:57:36 Even if it's in the "wrong" week for that blog post. 18:57:39 there coudl be an upcoming events section that just gets repeated every week until they're off the table? 18:57:44 SeaGL is the Seattle GNU/Linux Conference? 18:57:52 seagl.org 18:57:53 yes 18:58:02 lamby: we have (had) a future section already… 18:58:07 vagrantc: that sounds good to me 18:58:15 #info SeaGL, Seattle GNU/Linux Conference, Nov 11th/12th, see http://seagl.org/ 18:58:29 cool 18:58:44 i didn't want to spam the weekly reports, but also figured it was worth mentioning events on an ongoing basis 18:58:51 #action vagrantc to add SeaGL announcement to blog drafts until it happens 18:58:54 s/add/spam/ :) 18:58:56 #topic Any other business? 18:58:58 vagrantc: signal != spam :) 18:59:24 vagrantc: some people won't read all of them so seems useful to keep it there 18:59:42 * h01ger hopes he'll be able to make use of many more cores+RAM for amd64 builds this week… 19:00:10 emaste: that was my thought 19:00:11 lynxis: any news on debugging why the openwrt/LEDE builds fail on the 2nd build? 19:00:19 do we move the task tracking discussion to the next meeting or to the ML? 19:00:28 oh, could i get access to those h01ger 19:00:39 i also need extra power for builds :/ 19:00:42 HW42: i think if people want to follow up on th ML they should 19:00:47 infinity0: gcc is a beast 19:01:00 infinity0: to build gcc? hmmmm. what do you need? 19:01:19 (thikning about giving you a dedicated host for that, for a 1-3 months) 19:01:21 dkg: ok, missed the task discussion because of local distraction 19:01:48 infinity0: lets discuss this right after the meeting, ok? 19:01:50 yeah ok 19:02:14 i'm also happy to discuss the taskwarrior stuff after the meeting in the other channel, could do this and that at the same time 19:02:29 any other business? 19:02:35 h01ger: Can you #info an example of a failing 2nd lede build? 19:02:51 lamby: https://jenkins.debian.net/job/reproducible_lede/lastBuild/console 19:02:55 thanks 19:02:58 (for the history at the very least!) 19:03:00 Great 19:03:19 Thanks all! Feel free to keep chatting etc., but I will end the official meeting now 19:03:23 #endmeeting