17:01:54 #startmeeting 17:01:54 Meeting started Mon Feb 20 17:01:54 2017 UTC. The chair is BlakeGirardot. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 17:01:54 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 17:02:11 TechWG meeting anyone? 17:02:18 hey everyone, TWG meeting starting now 17:02:23 oh there :slightly_smiling_face: 17:02:54 hello 17:03:02 a few of us in the US are off for national holiday today, but let's do a quick round of updates for who's around 17:03:17 let me get a quick agenda gdoc going, 1 sec 17:05:18 https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YHPFZt-ME_vL9evA97pxHqwEcdLRQtHYcjp6qQ02EPM/edit?usp=sharing 17:06:18 lets us put some of that stuff back in :) 17:06:42 I still have stuff left over from last meeting on tm2, like the logo 17:08:03 OK, please copy back in what's still open from previous meeting notes 17:08:14 I updated the link in the doc 17:08:52 Also here - PREVIOUS agenda/notes for review: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gD-SfTTFdakURqFRcyCK7CNzCf-0VFmojousqdU5zlM/edit?usp=sharing 17:09:21 hi russ 17:10:13 hey Blake 17:10:38 Ok, so I will just update quickly here 17:10:56 OK, thanks @blake_hot 17:11:14 :wave: 'morning russell.deffner 17:11:18 We did migrate the TM2 to a new server on zoondka 17:11:30 hi Cristiano 17:11:46 I only have one little bit to contribute today 17:11:50 Still need to fix some small things, like the preferences 17:12:10 and I guess there is an issue I just learned about today with project numbers not matching 17:12:28 Need to look into that more. 17:12:37 Just that we discussed the TM default instructions during the Training WG, so hopefully some more people will review/edit 17:13:14 There thinkWhere has a staging site for the tm3 set up 17:13:15 http://tasking-manager-staging.eu-west-1.elasticbeanstalk.com/ 17:13:50 Which hopefully we will apply what we did for TM2 to TM3 and get a pipeline up for staging on our infastructure. 17:13:52 Great, thanks @blake_hot - it looks like it scales OK now, right? 17:14:18 TM2 is much improved on its own machine, but we did put more hardware behind it too 17:14:19 I get a `Your connection is not private` on that link 17:14:48 It is not https 17:15:12 OK, would be great to get some docs from @davidneudorfer on the current setup, also for those who will be backups in case of restart needed 17:15:32 the repo for TM3 is https://github.com/hotosm/tasking-manager and all development is done out of that repo, so issues can go there. 17:16:09 Ya, we need to iron out the details of the pipelines now. 17:16:34 tasks.dev.hotosm.org, tasks-staging, task-production, etc, understand what role they all play. 17:16:48 and how to restart main TM2 should it need it. 17:17:19 OK. is dev still used? and where is that sitting now? 17:17:46 that is still on amelia and yes, it is still used for the moment. 17:18:02 in fact it needs to stay as is, because it is needed to understand this project number issue 17:18:13 however, at the moment it is bugged and no one can log in. 17:18:21 but you can still see the projects 17:18:24 oh OK 17:18:27 And last, but not least 17:18:31 what's teh project number issue? 17:18:38 http://tasks-staging.hotosm.org/ now has all of pierre's contributions on it 17:19:14 I just learned of it an hour ago, something like #945 is not the same between tasks.dev.hotosm and tasks-staging/live TM2 17:19:36 should it be? 17:19:45 ya, 945 should be the same 945 17:19:49 I am pretty sure. 17:19:49 would it not be the saem between task and task-staging? 17:19:52 I could be wrong 17:20:10 but for those that old, I think they should be the same, maybe not, as I said, have not had a chance to dig in. 17:20:14 I thought dev had its own db and numbering 17:20:31 ya, it depends on how old the project is, 945 sounds pretty old 17:20:49 well, even newer ones, no? 17:20:51 dev had a duplicate of the main tm2 db at some point. 17:21:25 I really have not had a chance to dig into the issue so not much good for me to talk about it at the moment. 17:21:40 OK :+1: 17:22:24 That is about it for me. I will have a more updated TM3 devlopemnt road map later in the week 17:22:35 as for TM3 development, do you need any input from us? 17:22:38 ah OK 17:22:41 thanks 17:23:16 Russ I think I stepped on you 17:23:21 you were saying? 17:23:52 nothing more, just that we talked about the instructions 17:24:09 think a few of the Training WG folks will be reviewing 17:24:18 is that part of TM3 Russ? 17:24:23 yep 17:24:24 I mean, to update the docs? 17:24:27 cool 17:24:50 are we still open to a rebranding of TM3? 17:25:05 something to consider when updating docs in multiple places 17:26:07 Ya I think renaming the tm3 is supposed to happen 17:26:34 at the moment, i got everyone set up so they can add to the "default instructions" for a project, which should not be affected by the tm3 name 17:27:04 :+1: 17:27:55 OK, unless of anything else on TM let's keep moving 17:28:09 did you notice tm3 is using oam design system :) 17:28:26 oh no, I didn't 17:28:29 cool 17:28:46 same color schema? or more HOTish red? 17:28:55 same at the moment 17:29:08 but shouuld get its own color palette 17:29:12 OK, that makes sense 17:29:36 is there anything live yet? (the link above did not open...) 17:29:50 That link works for me 17:30:01 OK, let me try again 17:30:34

It worked for me after I bypassed the https error 17:30:54 it is not much at the moment, but is where thinkwheres auto builds go to 17:31:19 as i said, we need to work out our pipeline to match what we do with tm2 as well. 17:31:26 OK, yep I had to bypass the security error and it worked 17:31:40 OK, thanks Blake - looking forward to it! 17:31:54 I guess we need to eventually work out ssl for our applications. 17:32:19 we tried last year, but it broke several things, including the background tiles for the TM 17:32:25 please check with @davidneudorfer as I think we just updated a bunch of other ones 17:32:37 oh, in the code you mean 17:32:39 yeah 17:32:51 we should get our own tiles... 17:32:54 Ya 17:32:57 how about vector tiles? 17:33:01 +1 17:33:19 I mean we should make sure the impact of VT is not that much on low end hardward 17:33:29 hardware, but if we can make use of them, we should. 17:34:11 https://github.com/hotosm/hotosm-system-admin/issues/87 17:34:52 we should do some tests with https://openmaptiles.org/ 17:35:35 maybe the training working group could be a good place to see how it runs on different client-side hardware 17:36:51 OK, moving on, as I need to leave in 10 minutes 17:36:53 If I can figure out how to ask them, London could try it out on 4 or 5 different user's machines. 17:37:13 I will see if I can figure out how to ask them, meaning how to actually test them, the meet tomorrow. 17:37:52 for OSMA we just finalized the contract with Laboremus, a company based in Kampala who will be doing development on the frontend side 17:38:10 adding more map features and guided/thematic analysis 17:39:00 Paul is coordinating with them and I'm hoping to have some initial mockups to share over the next couple of weeks 17:40:45 for production, the cruncher is still running on AWS at the moment, but I think David is almost done packaging it and will move into Azure which should be more cost effective 17:41:29 we still need to figure out an improved crunching workflow to reduce costs e.g. parallelizing processing, using spot instances etc 17:41:52 help wanted if anyone is interested ;) 17:42:03 ping me or David for the details 17:43:09 for OAM Nate gave an updated last week and we're now focusing on the imagery-coord app 17:43:29 it's still very alpha, but let me find the link to share 17:44:09 oh, it's in the previous minutes, here http://hotosm.github.io/imagery-requests/ 17:45:47 this page is where we're building the imagery comparison tool http://hotosm.github.io/imagery-requests/#/imagery-search for the main three base imagery layers, but the idea is to any any other TMS or imagery catalog 17:46:49 OK, last on my list is Export Tool 17:47:16 @blake_hot I know that bug hasn't been fixed yet :( 17:47:24 :) 17:47:40 Mhairi will help to coordinate and get it patched ASAP 17:48:20 there's a kickoff meeting this Thursday for the HDX integration part 17:48:39 but hopefully with developers there they can put it on the agenda 17:48:50 I'll let her give an update later this week 17:49:20 cc: @mataharimhairi 17:50:04 OK, since @davidneudorfer I would leave the other section of the agenda `HOT Infrastructure and SysAdmin` to next time 17:50:44 anything else? otherwise we can wrap up for today ;) 17:52:02 I am set. 17:52:24

:+1: 17:53:02 :wave: OK, thanks everyone and have a good day! 17:53:48 Thank you cristiano, ethan, russ 17:57:06 thanks everyone 16:00:01 simonpoole : Yeah that does seem like a bit of a tender with a vendor in mind hey? https://twitter.com/vespucci_editor/status/834066381750558721 16:01:37 well you know running something like that from Friday 10am to Sunday 12am would indicate that you don't actually want anybody to answer (that didn't know in advance) 16:02:11 I'm sure you're right in thinking that this is probably not an opportunity for funded vespucci dev (because it seems too much like they have a particular solution in mind already) but…. if an opportunity for funded vespucci dev is something you're interested in, maybe HOT/others can make something like that happen. 16:03:17 and looking at the worldbank stuff, you likely first have to at least register as a vendor, or even need to be approved as such which in itself would likely take a month or so to organize 16:05:19 Yeah the ability to commit full time to stuff is often a bit of blocker. Not something random osm community contributors (coders / mappers or other volunteering), but often something expected within grant proposals 16:08:30 I might be doing some work on topical editing with reduced functionality together with an org interested in earthquake preparedness (most of the stuff is already there, filters, presets etc) 16:11:32 ooh nice. I have to say my impression of using vespucci is that "reduced functionality" would be an improvement in general. 16:11:52 fwiw, I do not think it is the case they intended to cut the opportunity short for any reason. It was published for decent length of time, just not publicized well. HOT missed it too. My experience with GFDRR is they do not play that way. 16:18:27 It does not even make sense really for them to do that. If they have a vendor in mind, they can just select them in the proposal eval process, not having lots of bids or in this case EoI's would just make that more obvious if that is how they did things. 16:19:02 harry-wood well you can always use tag only mode or the plus filters 16:20:24 so essentially what the plan is - topic specific filter, plus preset plus tag only mode wrapped in one 03:45:32 hi simon, harry, blake 03:45:38 just to clarify, the late posting is a personal error on my part 03:45:54 I was distracted that week with other work and personal commitments and just blanked on publicizing the EOI appropriately within the OSM community 03:45:56 so mea culpa and sorry 03:46:36 no evil plans afoot here and thankfully we got some great applications from people in the community in spite of my goofing up 03:47:21 simon, if you ever have any questions about what we're up to you can always write me, it's no sweat on my part 03:48:03 one minor thing to add, registering as a vendor with the WB is actually really easy. So in the future I encourage everyone to not be intimidated and go for it 09:32:01 ooh. new tasking manager https://twitter.com/hotosm/status/834124546726830080 09:32:18 clearly I should've gone to the mid-month mapathon 09:57:47 Which "new tasking manager" does it refer to? 10:39:06 pgiraud . I don't know. Was there a release of any new features recently? 10:44:50 nope 10:45:11 the staging instance shows the recent additions 10:45:18 but there was no official release 10:46:30 That's mysterious then 10:46:32 I have no information whether there were any development for TM3? 10:47:01 they may also be talking about the deployment on the new server 10:47:10 ah could be 11:01:56 On a different topic… I think we should help Fred Moine. It's bad news when remote mapping causes data quality issues for people work on the ground 11:02:53 I see this project TM project was archived: http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/2221 (so only TM admins can see that link) . …with very little validation having happened. 11:03:15 But the imagery related to that project is no longer available 11:04:22 I agree that HOT should at least try to do something to help Fred 11:05:14 mapbox & bing imagery is pretty fuzzy so it would be good to find out if there's anything better available 11:06:25 But we could work to fix logical data errors anyway 11:07:10 Also using this maybe http://osmose.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/?#zoom=11&lat=18.529&lon=-74.2065&layer=Mapnik&overlays=FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFT&item=1xxx%2C2xxx&level=1&tags=&fixable= 11:11:35 it could probably be useful to create a TM project dedicated to errors fix with links to osmose for each task 11:16:08 Although I see osmose also has a "corrected" link which allows us to avoid duplicating eachother's work so… maybe we should stick to one tool or the other is 11:16:52 osmose doesn't seem to be finding all the bugs though for some reason 11:17:35 Running another task square through the JOSM validating it's found all kinds of crap data where osmose shows nothing. So that's strange 11:18:34 So maybe just un-archiving project 2221 and inviting people to get the whole thing validated, would be the best course of action 11:18:44 (ideally getting the original imagery available again) 12:00:38 Validation can happen outside of the TM process, which is what was planned for the Matthew mapping. Not sure how well it went but that was the plan. 12:03:18 If someone can show me where there is a problem of overlapped buildings I will work on it. 12:04:27 But emails that start with "clean up your mess" I tend to pass over. I actually did look at that first email and saw like 4 or 7 buildings (I forget which number) for a huge area I downloaded. 12:06:12 So was genuinely at a loss as to what he was talking about. And this second one with no area or coords specified, I was not putting much effort in to. 12:06:35 (saw 4 or 7 duplicate buildings I mean to say) 12:10:00 I find osmose to not be of a lot of help for fixing errors over a large area. pgiraud: I have test projects that are just "run and fix JOSM Validation errors" 12:12:00 makes sense! 12:16:59 Just looking at the crossed buildings issue, for the NW section of Haiti. 12:18:41 I find 68000 buildings, with a "Crossed Buildings" total of 470 (that is not even duplicates only, just crossed, which includes duplicates usually) for an error rate of 0.7% 12:19:29 As you can see here: https://screenpresso.com/=2eYrd 12:22:01 I am not saying they should not be fixed. But it sure does not warrent the emails Fred sent to the HOT community list and would take not very long at all. 12:39:13 I just fixed 100 of the crossed buildings. 12:41:13 (duplicate buildings) Not a big deal and what mappers do all the time, at least in my mapping, it is just part of it, fixing up what new mappers mapped. 22:09:43 hmm interesting 22:10:04 look at the way these buildings seem to pair with eachother: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/18.62326/-74.21900 22:10:49 one is #hotosm-project-2221 the other is #hotosm-project-2201 22:11:16 different imagery alignment 23:12:09 You'll like this BlakeGirardot https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/446015600#map=19/18.63580/-74.23839 Here we see Pierzen, pointedly not using a hotosm tag, but humosm tag on his changeset… while he creates duplicate buildings mess 23:12:32 So it turns out FredM needs to ask the folks from his little french speaking splinter group to clean up their mess too 23:14:47 Interesting. I am sure it will be our fault somehow :) 23:15:25 I don't mean to be petty, but you do have to laugh 23:16:17 is this because there are multiple tasking manager tasks in the same area? or multiple tasking managers in the first place 23:16:24 Ya, I totally agree. It just shows, issues like this are not unique to HOT, but working together and supporting each other is the best path to good osm data 23:16:45 there was that other taches tasking manager I saw had some Haiti tasks too 23:17:17 That is possible. During Haiti there was a total lack of coordination and projeteof ran its own TM 23:17:45 I forget why it was our fault, but it was supposedly our fault they were mapping the same areas we were. 23:18:47 This same area is in the Taches tasking manager : http://taches.francophonelibre.org/project/45#task/13 23:19:34 with older imagery than we had on top of it all 23:20:09 Anyway, after reaching out to them a couple of times to coordinate and getting no response, we gave up and carried on. 23:23:17 sheesh. Maybe someone could nicely tell this to Fred? Pierzen’s edits were after the other person. Here’s the HOT task for part of that region http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/2201 23:23:49 yeah. one day after according to the actual object history 23:25:30 I do think we should try to follow a principle of deep respect and every assistance to people who are on-the-ground mapping/community building, and to try hard not trample over these efforts with our broad-sweeping quick-fire remote mapping projects. That's why I'm keen to see us extend a validating data cleaning hand here. 23:26:02 Eh. It is kind of a waste of time trying to make headway with some folks. It is always going to be HOT's fault, they never make any mistakes. If I had more time I would just fix it. 23:27:29 It is a two way street though, happy to make local folks a priority, but we do need some two way communications to make that happen, and we tend to get blame and disrespect only, or outright ignored when we try and coordinate like happen in Haiti last time. 23:31:04 I see what FredM is doing on-the-ground in Haiti, and it seems awesome, but I can see he doesn't speak good english. I'm imagining his view of HOT is ….whatever Nico and Pierzen and Sev have been telling him i.e. HOT is the root of all evil 23:31:31 Maybe it's hopelessly wishful thinking, but I hold out hope that, perhaps with the help of some other rational french speakers, we might bring persuade someone like FredM that we could all be a great team together. 23:32:44 I can't comment on Fred. I have done a lot to include him and support his work, as did Dale and ARC. How he responded and handled that? No comment. 23:35:05 Oh right. Maybe you've pursued it to a dead end more than I have with him. I haven't had very much contact with him. 23:35:55 Just a sinking feeling every time I hear from him of "yeah I know who you've been talking to" 23:37:31 I wish him all the best, he means well, just caught in a spot, he is still responsible for his actions, but I am quite sure if he had his way, there would be no drama and he would just do what he does best. 23:46:30 I wish them all the best, I just wish they could get over whatever they are stuck on and their obsession with HOT, so much wasted energy when we could all be working in harmony and doing good stuff for the local folks we try to serve. 04:59:45 Fred's English is fine 05:00:08 I've met him, he can more than hold his own in English 05:00:22 He just has a very idiosyncratic way of speaking. And thinking. And working. 14:05:32 "french speaking splinter group:,)" 14:14:26 robert.banick: He does things his own way, no matter what. He is a very moral person and for sure not easy to deal with. not the ideal co-worker. On a personal level I like him a lot though. And he did the greatest job at representing HOT at the World Humanitarian summit last year. As @jorieke once said "Fred ist just Fred" 14:35:08 Yeah I know. Fred's definitely not a bad guy and you're right that he's always doing what he thinks is best. No personal agenda or anything, unlike perhaps Sev and Nico at times. I just think he has tunnel vision on his own work and doesn't consider others / the effects of his actions on others. So I wish him well and cheer him on but I try to steer clear of him b/c he's unreliable to work with. 14:36:21 I probably could have spoken better in channel, I just didn't want to publicly dissect another hottie. It's not really my MO 15:08:46 you spoke quite neutral about him, don´t worry. 13:59:55 Greetings all, the Activation WG will start shortly 14:02:25 I forget the bot commands :) 14:02:41 #commands 14:02:41 Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #rejected #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk 14:03:13 russdeffner: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress. 14:03:26 #endmeeting 14:03:59 hmm, bot says theres a meeting in progress 14:04:13 russdeffner: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress. 14:05:25 ok, no bot then 14:05:31 role call? 14:06:38 I have Blake on mumble, anyone else here for AWG? 14:10:43 Ok, I'll hang out here for a bit to see if anyone joins, otherwise we'll probably just scrap the WG until we find new leads 14:32:56 Hi RAytoun and tumoxa93 - are you here for the Activation WG by chance? 14:34:02 #endmeeting