19:03:48 #startmeeting HOT Training WG 19:03:48 Meeting started Mon Aug 29 19:03:48 2016 UTC. The chair is Tallguy-Nick. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 19:03:48 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 19:04:26 Hi everyone & welcome - meetbot is active this evening so I'm resuming the normal format 19:04:27 Hi all, here but working on other things, so mostly just lurker for meeting 19:04:43 welcome russdeffner lurker 19:05:52 just to keep it in the minutes, can you each identify yourselves as here for the meeting please 19:06:04 logrady - Laura O'Grady 19:06:20 Russell Deffner 19:06:28 RAytoun - Ralph 19:06:54 OK, thanks - if anyone else wishes to join in, please feel free to do so 19:07:12 #topic Review/approval of agenda 19:07:18 I saw that Blake had signed in 19:08:14 Hi BlakeGirardot are you with us? 19:08:57 ok - if he becomes free I'm sure he'll join in 19:09:12 #link https://trello.com/b/ZYzEoama/hot-training-wg 19:10:13 sorry, that link doesn't seem to be working - will try again shortly 19:11:06 I managed to get through to the Trello page from that link 19:11:07 #link https://trello.com/b/ZYzEoama/hot-training-wg 19:11:33 same link! but seems now to be working 19:12:11 logrady: is that link working for you? 19:13:29 yes, thx. the link works. i'm logging in right now. 19:14:43 OK - if anyone has anything else that needs adding, let us know 19:15:07 #topic Review/approval of previous meeting minutes 19:15:47 - I've received an apology for late minutes and they should become available over the next few days. I have a copy of the log from IRC if needed. 19:16:13 I'm intending to move on, but if anyone wants to query anything, let me know 19:16:54 #topic Quick start guide on LearnOSM for HOT TM 19:17:44 I've heard nothing more on this subject for while now - wonder if we should mark it as pending and only review if there is an update 19:18:15 pending = Projects on Hold/Ideas 19:19:25 ok - moved to Projects on Hold 19:19:45 #topic HOT Training centre 19:20:19 Not sure if we have any stats. for the use of this site? 19:20:29 #link http://courses.hotosm.org/ 19:20:45 not realy 19:20:55 think it was 90 students last check 19:21:25 still get new ones, not often though, and not many beyond the basics course 19:21:40 does the site have or is the site set for log file analysis? 19:21:52 partly hung up due to lack of participation in AWG 19:22:26 there is internal/moodle tracking 19:23:38 just realized that since signup is used (i'm assuming) to do the course that's probably a better metric 19:24:42 you can view all courses as guest, so think we miss those numbers 19:25:33 would be interesing to know what the motivation is there but probably not a priority in terms of short term goals for the site. 19:26:36 yes, it's more about our volunteer workforce and having people trained for disaster response 19:27:41 but I know some people are just viewing the material to help with external partner stuff, which might be the larger usage in future 19:29:01 I thought there was also something in there from BlakeGirardot - I can't find it now 19:29:26 there is a course in the works on highway tag africa 19:30:11 think it's 'done' but coming up with badging/course completion criteria probably put hold on it 19:30:22 I've started on the Activation section, but ran out of time - LearnOSM is keeping me very busy 19:30:57 great to hear, understand the lack of time 19:32:07 OK - think it would be good to develop this further. 19:32:35 Does anyone have more on this subject, or shall I move us along? 19:32:50 We'll see if/how next week's AWG goes; we talked about a review of Activation in general, might impact site 19:33:24 or hopefully give a bit of guidance for how to promo/use it more effectively 19:34:51 ok - will move us on now 19:35:19 #topic LearnOSM staging site 19:35:55 propose to move this into 'Projects on Hold/Ideas' as well at the moment 19:37:22 ok - have moved the Trello card 19:37:48 Anyone heard from Suzan lately? 19:38:45 I haven't 19:39:02 Seems to have dropped off the radar 19:40:15 RAytoun: could you try contacting her please? 19:40:39 OK, I will give it a try 19:41:13 thanks for that. Are we happy if I change the topic from the official staging site? 19:41:42 OK with me 19:41:50 #topic Backup for Nick - LearnOSM & Transifex processes 19:42:22 OK - I'm not aware of any changes - but logrady I think you read through the existing documentation - did it make sense? 19:43:46 yes, it makes sense. my suggested edits were basically superficial 19:44:15 sorry, don't think I explained myself - did you understand how LearnOSM was setup 19:44:55 not sure what you mean. the site itself or how to use LearnOSM to learn how to do a task 19:45:37 the site itself - if you or someone else wanted to add / amend something, can it be seen how to do so 19:46:39 i've read over quite a few pages at LearnOSM to teach myself how to participate in HOT, so JOSM pages, HOT pages but not rudimentary OSM pages as i'm experienced in that area. 19:47:18 ok, thanks 19:47:51 i had a few thoughts at the time about the content, mostly the way it's laid out rather than anything pedagogical. 19:48:58 The documentation about how to add to or amend the site is under review / amendment and I think we need to keep working on that 19:49:03 i agree with the suggestion from the last meeting about adding animated gifs as i saw them on other pages i found while searching for material. quite effective and much faster than watching a yt video. these are great but horrible if you want to go back and quickly find something. 19:49:11 as well as the layout of the site to make navigation easier 19:50:13 We'll have to keep working on that - animated gifs would be great in many places 19:50:13 yes, the layout needs improvement in my opinion 19:50:38 has there ever been any idea around adding a message forum? 19:50:59 I don't think any of us have the skills to do that 19:51:59 when i ran my self hosted site i used wordpress as the cms, there was a simple plug-in for that. i don't think that's available where the site is currently being hosted, correct? 19:52:30 I don't know - I'm very much an amateur who has learnt a little 19:53:39 it's it's jekyll on github right? 19:53:52 yes, that's right 19:57:39 ...looking for jekyll forum plug-in 19:58:27 bear in mind that many visitors are not visiting the English language sections - I'm not sure if I could cope with a Japanese forum 19:58:42 there's a forum to discuss jekyll but apparently not a forum for jekyll 19:59:09 good point. we would need moderators for every language. a bit overwhelming. 19:59:51 yes - we need a bigger team - the translators mainly confine themselves to working through Transifex and many are not expert mappers 20:01:09 ok - something to consider for the future, - are we happy to move along on the agenda? 20:01:45 sometimes the community comes after you build it. so if a message forum was added for each language it would populate with users that speak each language. volunteer moderators come forward after that. but i think there's probably other things to focus on right now. 20:02:19 yes - I'd like to see more happen, but have trouble managing the current status 20:02:42 have you tried to recuit people to help you with managing the site? 20:03:23 a few people do help and there have been other attempts 20:04:30 yes, that's an unfortunate side effect of using a large volunteer base to get things done. 20:05:23 all help appreciated - shall I move the subject on to Mapathon management? 20:06:41 #topic Mapathon / Event Management - Howto 20:07:24 In London at a Missing Maps Mapathon we made a couple of changes to our format - but I think it is too early to tell how successful tht has been 20:07:44 Ralph may have more to say on this, but he seems to have dropped out 20:09:15 #topic Tasking Manager Admin module on LearnOSM 20:09:27 #link http://nick-tallguy.github.io/en/coordination/tasking-manager-project-admin/ 20:09:38 Laura has carried out a detailed review, I have started, but yet to finish. Any updates are still 'pending' depending on discussion & agreement. 20:09:38 Also as a result of Laura's review have started to investigate a site map for LearnOSM. 20:10:28 if others want to read the review i can share a link to it in my dropbox account 20:11:38 were my updates on your document visible to you? I may have to amend how I was doing my updates? 20:12:26 i did not receive your updates. did you email them to me as an attachment? 20:12:26 for RAytoun 20:12:29 * apmon (~kaikruege@ucb-np2-71.colorado.edu) has joined 20:12:29 yes, that's an unfortunate side effect of using a large volunteer base to get things done. 20:12:29

all help appreciated - shall I move the subject on to Mapathon management? 20:12:29

#topic Mapathon / Event Management - Howto 20:12:29 * MeetBot has changed the topic to: Mapathon / Event Management - Howto (Meeting topic: HOT Training WG) 20:12:30

In London at a Missing Maps Mapathon we made a couple of changes to our format - but I think it is too early to tell how successful tht has been 20:12:32

Ralph may have more to say on this, but he seems to have dropped out 20:12:33

#topic Tasking Manager Admin module on LearnOSM 20:12:35 * MeetBot has changed the topic to: Tasking Manager Admin module on LearnOSM (Meeting topic: HOT Training WG) 20:12:38

#link http://nick-tallguy.github.io/en/coordination/tasking-manager-project-admin/ 20:12:42

Laura has carried out a detailed review, I have started, but yet to finish. Any updates are still 'pending' depending on discussion & agreement. 20:12:45

Also as a result of Laura's review have started to investigate a site map for LearnOSM. 20:12:47 if others want to read the review i can share a link to it in my dropbox account 20:12:48 * RAytoun (~56b1cecd@shenron.openstreetmap.org) has joined 20:13:06 Hi. I am back. Sorry, my computer froze then crashed... One of the benefits of Windows 10. 20:13:24 Sorry logrady no, I started to update the document but ran out of time. I have a copy on my computer which I plan to finish then share with you 20:13:44 ok, i will wait for that. 20:13:49 OK RAytoun I've pasted in the period you missed - can change the agenda back to Mapathons if you like 20:14:15 Whenever you are ready 20:14:34 OK - Tasking Manager Admin is still an active review 20:15:11 we also should try to complete the module on #topic HOT Training centre for Activation, which is relevant 20:15:26 #link http://courses.hotosm.org/ 20:16:31 If everyone is happy, will keep this one active, but return to Mapathon management for Ralph? 20:16:56 ok 20:17:03 #topic Mapathon / Event Management - Howto 20:17:27 I guess that's me 20:18:42 I have emailed my latest version to the training working group. The additions are highlighted in yellow and green. 20:20:10 i don't think i'm on that mailing list 20:20:21 logrady: have you received the email? 20:20:29 One of the problems I have is with a method for organisers to understand the return rate or the success of newly trained mappers continuing to map. 20:21:00 no, i have not rec'd it 20:21:20 I've just sent it again - give it a moment please then check 20:21:53 My problem was not knowing the user name for the attendees so I have asked the London organisers to include a "register" to be available at the Mapathon so we can get user names. 20:22:34 i think retention rates an overall issue with OSM in general. aren't approx. 90% of edits done by 10% members? 20:22:41 Armed with this we can see whether they have continued mapping after the event. 20:23:12 I have those statistics and I agree with you on that score 20:23:35 But then mapping is not everyones pleasure 20:23:44 when validating in hot tasking manager you can spot those who are from a mapathon but i think it would be tedious to compile a list of usernames that way. 20:25:28 Laura, do you have another process for this? 20:26:35 only by going into HOT TM, looking for task that was associated with a mapathon then checking usernames of those who participated 20:27:09 I am not talking about having a list for all Mapathons, just the one that concerns the person organising. 20:27:10 most mapathoners have only a few edits over a short period of time, use ID as their editor. 20:28:16 yes, if you know the task number associatted with the maoathon you can look it up in the TM. There's probably a backend way to scrape all the users. But it would likely be easier to just ask mapathon organizers to provide this for you. 20:28:43 they would, however, have to ask everyone at a mapathon to supply their login credientials. 20:28:55 OK Laura, I understand where you are coming from 20:29:07 ok, good 20:29:22 I am involved in writing the guide for Mapathon organisers 20:30:09 This would be one of the tools they could use to understand their specific Mapathon and judge it's success 20:30:30 ok, so it's part of an evaluation, a metric of sorts 20:30:53 what other metrics are being collected to measure success? 20:31:35 While they may all log on with Eventbrite with their email this does not help us to follow their work as the work is all done under their user name. 20:32:36 are you saying they go right from eventbright through osm to the tasking manager with one login step or they just register with Eventbrite and that provides instructions/URLs to go from there? 20:34:58 No. I am saying we have a list of attendees because they get tickets through Eventbrite for our event using their email. But the email does not help us to track their ongoing mapping to measure the ongoing statistics of that event 20:35:48 All their work done for HOT, Missing Maps and OSM is done with their user name 20:36:15 ok, i understand. then the mapathon organizers will have to ask participants for their username 20:36:49 Correct, and that is what the idea of a register is for 20:38:19 So each group's event will have a register for their series of events 20:39:06 Any questions? 20:39:07 does the TM use MySQL in the backend? if so queries can be done on a batch of usernames 20:41:27 #link https://github.com/hotosm/osm-tasking-manager2 20:42:11 The TM cannot differentiate between a mapper who has logged onto that task on the tasking manager from there home on the other side of the world... to a mapper logged on to that task at a Mapathon. All it can tell you is who was editing at that time on that task. 20:43:42 logrady: appears to be a postgres database 20:43:47 ok, tm is using postgresql, a type of database that queries can be run on, everyone who uses tm has a username and a page that shows their usage statistics, so we know those metrics are being collected. 20:44:57 Again, those metrics are by user name. 20:46:04 i think i agreed with your suggestion that you need to ask the mapathon organizers for the usernames of participants if you're going to be able to use this outcome measure. 20:46:37 i'm not sure what you're asking (or maybe i'm confused and you aren't asking anything ;) 20:46:59 The London organisers have agreed to give this a trial, hopefully at the Mapathon on the 6th September 20:49:05 ok - think we should have more idea of success on the following working group meeting 20:49:43 Laura, did Nick forward my email? If so could you contact me for further discussion after the meeting? 20:50:00 yes, i have it. 20:50:46 OK, please email me. 20:50:55 your email was incuded in the fwd msg. i will get back to you with comments ASAP. 20:51:23 Lovely. Nick, I have finished for now, do you want to move on? 20:51:30 ok 20:51:42 #topic LearnOSM updates 20:51:53 #link https://piwik.hotosm.org/index.php?module=CoreHome&action=index&idSite=3&period=range&date=2016-08-15,2016-08-29#/?module=VisitsSummary&action=index&idSite=3&period=range&date=2016-08-02,2016-08-15 20:52:57 My earlier comment about Japanese can be seen better from the following link 20:53:01 #link https://piwik.hotosm.org/index.php?module=CoreHome&action=index&idSite=3&period=range&date=2016-08-15,2016-08-29#/?module=Actions&action=menuGetPageUrls&idSite=3&period=range&date=2016-08-15,2016-08-29 20:53:21 most of the bounces are from English - the other languages are from visitors who know where they are going 20:54:08 I think - maybe? 20:54:22 could also interpet that to mean that bounces by english users didn't want/know what the site was 20:55:08 that's the problem with log files, difficult to know what the users are thinking, can see what they are doing, kind of. 20:55:24 Good to see the stats holding steady for viewing. Could the average time on page mean they found what they were looking for? 20:55:44 yes - I know when I personally found the site I didn't investigate it, and just moved on - bounced 20:56:45 I think the site is actually best for users in other countries - it's just that it starts out in English 20:57:44 Work continues on Myanmar translations - staging site has been updated and there is more to be added also have a translator working on Portuguese. 20:58:14 I'm conscious that time is getting on - are we okay to move on again 20:58:37 yes 20:58:41 Yes 20:58:44 #topic Any Other Business 20:58:58 is there a volunteer to create the minutes? 20:59:42 I would offer but I do not know the procedure 21:00:21 ok - probably easier if I do it - meetbot has done most of the work 21:00:44 if there's nothing else ... 21:01:05 #topic Date of Next Meeting - 12th September 2016, 19.00hrs UTC 21:01:16 Just the details of the next meeting? 21:01:31 OK there they are 21:01:52 Thank you all for your involvement - keep up the good work. 21:02:05 still a couple of reviews outstanding if we can all join in 21:02:08 thank u 21:02:22 Thank you Nick 21:02:25 #endmeeting