19:58:50 #startmeeting 19:58:50 Meeting started Tue Jan 19 19:58:50 2010 UTC. The chair is zumbi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 19:58:50 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 19:59:06 #chair mrvn 19:59:06 Current chairs: mrvn zumbi 19:59:24 #topic cross toolchains 20:00:38 There has been some changes in the design basically affecting to naming and we add a gcc-cross-defaults package 20:01:16 Work is in progress 20:01:31 I would like tripplet-gcc to look into /usr/include as well as /usr/include/triplet. That ways arch:all dev packages and multiarch dev packages can be used as well as plainly unpacking foreign debs into a sysroot. 20:02:11 sure, we need a compiler being able to work with multiarch scheme 20:02:14 And gcc-cross-defaults should only provide the tripplet-gcc links where triplet-gcc-x.y is actualy installed. 20:02:38 sure, that's the idea 20:03:27 Will gcc-cross-defaults depend on cross-gcc-x.y and all -gcc-x.y provide that? 20:03:37 So that it installs at least one of them. 20:03:39 to the previous statement it would be worth to look to implement multiarch paths into the sysroot, so making the compiler --sysroot=0 (root fs /) 20:03:56 zumbi: exactly. 20:04:19 can work with debootstraps (pointing sysroot to them) and with / system 20:04:56 ok, so work is in progress 20:05:07 next topic? 20:05:28 #multiarch 20:05:37 #topic Multiarch 20:06:06 Changes have been done in dpkg-cross and apt-cross to support newer schemes 20:06:15 Thanks Neil :) 20:06:56 next? 20:07:41 I don't agree with Neils conffile that tells dpkg-cross when not to use libfoo-arm-cross. I think that should be left out, at least for now so packages don't force people to update to multiarch packages as soon as the appear. 20:08:12 Esspecially when "apt-get update" will update that list. 20:08:42 is it harmful someway? 20:09:18 does it break something? is it scalable? 20:09:26 say you have stable and unstable in sources list with stable being the default. The converted packages would suddenly require the unstable multiarch package instead of the libfoo-arm-cross from stable. 20:09:56 is there an alternative? 20:10:26 Keep the list empty. Or only list packages that are only available as multiarch. 20:11:16 i.e. as long apt sees a non-multiarch libfoo libfoo is not added to the list and dpkg-cross will keep using libfoo-arm-cross. 20:12:21 The user than has the choice of stable (non-multiarch) libfoo-arm-cross or unstable libfoo:arm + libfoo-arm-cross dummy deb. 20:12:54 ok, so, discussion is in progress in the mailing lists (debian-embedded) 20:13:47 you could try to send a follow up to Neil changes on dpkg-cross mail with your tests 20:13:50 yeah. Just have to convince Neil what a good default config should be. :) 20:14:03 ok :) 20:14:12 next? 20:14:32 #topic Crush 2.0 release 20:14:44 Do we want multiarch packages converted and installed with non-multiarch dpkg(-cross)? 20:15:40 what for? 20:16:17 Only reason would be to test some new package without having to convert the rest of the chroot to multiarch. 20:16:48 well, you can try to write your tool if needed it 20:17:14 if it becomes necesary, someone will probably do it 20:17:15 Nah, just wondering if anyone would want that. I have no problems forcing people to update dpkg to use latest unstable packages. 20:17:38 we need to fit everything before the freeze 20:18:15 anyway, going back to topic 20:18:51 I have no idea about Crush 2.0. Anyone else even awake? 20:18:54 I wonder if it would be worth to try to rebuild crush with an emulated environment like sbox or similars 20:19:24 mrvn: don't worry, just taking notes for the record :) 20:19:48 mrvn: but crush is basically a cross compiled rootfs 20:20:25 mrvn: with base changes for minimal (busybox based, perl not required) size. 20:21:02 #topic uClibc in Debian 20:21:20 ever tried to run a buildd for cross building? 20:21:32 uclibc: yes please. 20:21:58 We have uclibc-source package and work should start towards a new cross compiler 20:22:36 mrvn: yes, crush was built that way 20:22:55 mrvn: emdebian-* packages have the autobuilders scripts 20:23:22 mrvn: but not with uclibc, that only has been done within slind.org 20:23:51 I would like to have a i486-linux-uclibc port for my fileserver. Just base, rtorrent, apache, nfs, rsync. 20:23:52 mrvn: and by some users locally at their home 20:24:12 s/apache/other small http server/ 20:24:35 mrvn: you could have it, it is posible to do it, the hard part is integrating that within Debian 20:25:13 Cross compiled though. The fileserver is too slow to run a buildd. 20:25:48 uhm.. slind.org has it 20:26:16 "www.slind.org uses an invalid security certificate." hehe 20:26:40 but if you also want Debian benefits (upgrades, security, ..) need to integrate them with Debian 20:26:45 WTF is the point of using https with a self signed cert? 20:27:02 zumbi: how well does the uclibc-source package work? 20:27:21 mrvn: franckly, i have not look to it yet 20:27:44 but it probably should be updated with last release 20:28:49 Should we end the meeting? or do you have anything else to comment about? 20:29:16 so uclibc is the big questionmark for this meating. 20:29:44 actually it has been discussed, we just need to work on them 20:29:55 Not realy. Only other things to mention would be that both dpkg and apt now have an multiarch branch. So there is some progress. 20:29:57 now that dpkg has a Debian name for the port 20:30:29 Was there any progress towards the DAK tracking Build-Depends: xxx-source relationships? 20:30:52 mrvn: I have no idea, but i'll test it with an upload sometime soon 20:31:01 hi codehelp 20:31:14 hi zumbi 20:31:38 zumbi: Maybe you could detail how gcc-cross-defaults is going to be implemented. 20:31:39 we are ending the meeting (just mrvn and I) if you like to add or comment about something else? 20:32:04 just hanging around after replying to goswin's email to the list 20:32:18 ok, so lets end 20:32:37 #endmeeting