16:31:31 #startmeeting 16:31:31 Meeting started Fri Apr 3 16:31:31 2020 UTC. The chair is terceiro. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 16:31:31 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 16:31:45 #topic roll call 16:31:55 hello, welcome to the Ruby team meeting 16:31:59 say hi if you are around 16:32:01 hi there! 16:32:03 * utkarsh2102 waves 16:32:05 * kanashiro waves 16:32:09 hi 16:32:12 hi 16:32:17 * dleidert waves 16:32:35 uwabami: thanks for staying up so late! :) 16:32:44 Unit193: quack 16:32:51 quack folks 16:32:56 sooo sleepy 16:33:10 terceiro: you'are welcome 16:33:12 Duck you are awake pretty late too 16:33:25 hey Duck, try not to sleep during the meeting :) 16:33:36 I hope everyone is safe and healthy 16:33:39 Keep quackin' ;) 16:33:41 I'm already half sleeping :-) 16:33:46 Hi 16:33:51 hi 16:33:51 usually I can stay longer but... 16:34:22 let's go 16:34:34 #info meeting agenda is at https://pad.riseup.net/p/ruby_team_irc_metting_20200403 16:34:35 Riseup Pad (at pad.riseup.net) 16:34:51 #topic default branch protection in the salsa 16:35:11 should the default branch protection in the salsa ruby-team be changed to half-protection 16:35:11 background: developers can create repos but not push to them (example @hacks-guest)! 16:35:11 pro: allows maintainers and developers push access 16:35:11 pro: prevents force-push for both 16:35:11 alternatively: 16:35:12 create ruby-team/wnpp namespace 16:35:14 lower default branch protection here fully 16:35:15 developers can create reps 16:35:17 if one gets uploaded to NEW, move it to ruby-team (dev will already have permissions then) 16:35:19 we collect unused ITP/RFP attempts in one place and don't pollute ruby-team 16:35:25 dleidert: I think this item is yours? 16:35:28 yes 16:35:59 FWIW I think your proposal makes sense 16:36:05 background is, that our developers can create repos, but cannot push to them. We can either remove their abilityx to create repos or lower the protection or do something else 16:36:53 The wnpp idea has the background, that we currently have ~20 repos with packaging attempts which are several years old 16:37:09 ruby-team/mentors ? as it is mostly for new 16:37:13 so we could collect these efforts, see developers work ... 16:37:20 I'd fine with that too 16:38:47 does anyone disagree, or have questions? 16:38:50 will everybody (even "owners") push new repos there until they hit the archive? 16:39:02 as these are not work needing (wn of wnpp) 16:39:09 if yes, then "wnpp" is more suitable than "mentors" 16:39:27 nope. I'd say that maintainers onwards, being able to create repos and push, have enough reponsibility, no? 16:39:42 boutil I don't think that is required 16:39:49 ok, then "mentors" is fine indeed 16:39:58 I think it is a great move forward 16:40:15 so let deveopers put their ITPs/RFPs in mentors then? 16:40:30 fine by me 16:40:58 Then we should remove the ability for developers to create repos in ruby-team 16:41:36 dleidert only ITPs how would RFP work there? 16:42:10 from the point of view of who is packaging, aren't ITP and RFP the same thing? 16:42:20 fine 16:42:28 I'd say that every Maintainer or owner is suaully working on smething he plans to upload. So there is not much risk that we end up with orphaned repos in ruby-team. I'd suggest that only for developers 16:43:08 so for example hacksk[m] could have created his repos there and push to them 16:43:08 only for developpers or that's going to be annoying 16:43:19 terceiro not how I think about it, RFP is usually when you cannot package it 16:43:40 yep, RFP is when you ask others to do it 16:43:43 and ITP when you are planning to 16:43:48 Request 16:43:56 vs. Intent 16:44:32 P.S. someone will need to take care of the VCS fields accordingly.. 16:44:33 I know 16:44:43 I think, if owners or maintainers pick up an RFP, they can do this in ruby-team's main namespace, because they usually pick this up to upload it. 16:45:19 +1 16:45:37 there is no repo for rfp and you are supposed to retitle rfp to itp when you start working on it 16:45:42 utkarsh2102: not really. If the package gets uplaoded to new, just move it into the main namespace. 16:45:53 VCS should be the expected final location, right? 16:46:05 boutil: yes, that's how I see it 16:46:34 PiratePraveen[m], the RFP itself should be sent to the mailing list, there is no need for a git repo 16:46:44 utkarsh2102 vcs filed can just remain the same always like how people have it in personal name space too - the field it still ruby-team 16:47:17 maybe we don't have to think about all of the small details now, and agree on the general direction? 16:47:26 kanashiro yes, that is what I'm saying too 16:47:27 +1 16:47:37 if a git repo is needed is because the RFP became an ITP 16:48:45 However: we still need to decide if we want to lower the protection to half-protected (push allowed, force-push not allowed), because our developers currently cannot push to any package repository, independent if in Debbian, ITPed or RFPed 16:48:53 so do we agree on this: NEW packages from recent team members (developers in salsa terms) should go into ruby-team/mentors/; developers should have permission to create repos there 16:48:55 hi here! (sorry for the delay…) 16:49:08 like saying upload to mentors.debian.net, we can say upload to salsa.debian.org/ruby-team/mentors 16:49:21 terceiro +1 16:49:47 terceiro +1 16:49:48 terceiro: we can try that and adjust if it does not work well but seems fine 16:49:50 +1 on terceiro's proposal 16:50:22 dleidert I think we can give people maintainer access to specific repos than lowering requirement 16:50:35 #agreed NEW packages from recent team members (developers in salsa terms) should go into ruby-team/mentors/; developers should have permission to create repos there 16:50:41 PiratePraveen[m]: yes! 16:50:54 #info we can always raise the privilege of developers to maintainer on specific repos 16:51:10 now, on the question of the default branch protection 16:51:25 half-protected looks good to me. what do people think 16:51:26 ? 16:51:40 preventing force-push is good 16:52:04 half-protect does not allow force-push 16:52:12 half-protected seems the right setting 16:52:17 but allows developers to push to master 16:52:22 I think giving maintainer access to specific repos is better than removing protected branch 16:52:47 maintainers can always push (just not force-push) 16:52:48 dleidert why? when we can give for specific repos 16:52:58 True 16:53:30 Say you upload hacksk[m] packages you would adjust the protection settings for him? 16:53:49 ... for the affected packages 16:54:12 dleidert yes, I do that always 16:55:13 I am fine with either choice, as long as *I* can push :) 16:55:29 heh 16:55:35 it depends how open we're with unsuppervised outside contribs. I think teams usually expect people to join but liking the id of the 'debian' group (how was it called already), I wonder… 16:55:49 so when moving from mentors, the access should be updated 16:56:09 do we agree on half-protected then? 16:56:28 yep 16:56:29 fine 16:56:31 I think PiratePraveen[m] is vorting for full-protection 16:56:49 PiratePraveen[m]: it seems to me to be more bureaucraty than we actually need 16:56:49 #info when moving a package from mentors, the access should be adjusted so they can push to master 16:57:08 to me too much ACLs are a barrier to contributions 16:57:31 upload + moving from mentors + adjusting ... 16:57:55 full protection: devs cannot push new commits, maint can. No force-push or delete for both. 16:58:20 half protect: devs and maint can push new commits, neither can force-push or delete 16:59:01 I think half-protect is safe, and "welcoming" 16:59:20 seems easier, and safe enough 16:59:24 I am fine trusting developers 16:59:26 boutil: :-) 16:59:28 half-protected I mean 16:59:42 I think when someone is trusted, they should be made a maintainer 16:59:54 so practically with lowering the protection devs could import new versions, could change master and upstream 17:00:56 PiratePraveen[m]: do you have strong feelings against half-protected? 17:01:03 but if I'm the only one wanting this way, I'll not press it any more 17:01:40 Well I feel with PiratePraveen[m] a bit. Some dev could import a major update and push it 17:01:46 I would prefer NMUs to be uploaded in the repo too than having to be done when the maint or a owner thinks about it later on 17:02:12 ... and we would have to clean up 17:02:49 dleidert, valid point 17:03:00 well, I think it's less work to clean up an eventual mistake than to remember to give the right permissions to every repo 17:03:17 terceiro: agreed. 17:03:20 terceiro like I said if most people think it is safe, then lets do it 17:03:40 remember our alioth times, when everybody could force-push 17:03:45 and we survived :) 17:03:52 We can certainly try and adjust our course if some incident happens 17:03:52 PiratePraveen[m]: what's canonical is the archive, not the repo, and any DD can upload anyway 17:04:33 (maybe not everybody... but still!) 17:04:38 Duck we can easily make DDs maintainers 17:05:11 even DMs 17:05:16 do we agree on: team packages should have branch protection set to "half-protected" by default 17:05:18 ? 17:05:26 terceiro: +1 17:05:31 terceiro: ok 17:05:42 +1 17:05:45 Well the ideal solution would be tp protect upstream, not master, so only maintainers upwards could import new upstream version. I don't see master a scritical because devs are usually not DMs or DDs 17:05:46 I would not have liked, when I started to ask permission for every repo I touched 17:06:19 * when I started contributing, 17:06:23 terceiro +0 not too strong objection 17:06:49 Honestly I'm fine with both. We can always adjust 17:06:50 PiratePraveen[m]: I think every DD has already some XP and should reasonnably be trusted, a DM usually not much yet, or is here infrequently, so I would nto go that far 17:07:20 I think we are mostly arguing over a non-issue TBH 17:07:28 boutil well you could get maintainer access after a few repos so you won't have to asks any more 17:08:08 #agreed team packages should have branch protection set to "half-protected" by default 17:08:19 let's move on to the next topic 17:08:26 #topic info about attic movement 17:08:44 #info we now have a ruby-team/attic namespace 17:09:03 #info packages removed from the archive should be moved to ruby-team/attic 17:09:06 anything else? 17:09:21 I moved >100 packages to attic 17:09:31 dleidert: thanks! 17:09:37 packages not in oldoldstable or newer anymore have been archived 17:09:47 so they are not shown by default 17:10:16 dleidert, thanks for your work! I saw some people discussion about an script to do it automatically, am I right? 17:10:45 arf, I have one I was working on but… got delayed let's say 17:10:52 there is a tool in the teams meta repo called' attic' which creates the branches debian/jessie, debian/stretch and debian/buster if the packages is still there and then moves the repo into attic 17:10:59 Duck: you can always move it back 17:11:13 of course /o\ 17:11:36 and another tool mv-to-attic-and-archive, which simply moves a repo to attic and archives it 17:12:09 At some day I'll rewrite them in Ruby ;) 17:12:32 it's not in ruby? how dare you 17:12:45 we can only read Ruby, how are we going to maintain them? /teasing 17:12:51 thanks dleidert, it is good to have these details in the meeting minutes for future reference :) 17:13:17 It was easier for me to do this quickly in shell/bash :) 17:13:17 #info new script: mv-to-attic-and-archive 17:14:01 #info new script: attic 17:14:21 dleidert: again thanks for your efforting in organizing our beloved mess! 17:14:30 can we move on? 17:14:41 No problem. I love cleaning :) 17:14:45 we are already at 45 min, it would be nice to keep it under 1h 17:14:47 sure 17:15:05 !next 17:15:23 #topic repos for packages that were never uploaded 17:15:36 question: Should packages in ruby-team, which have not been uploaded yet and are failry old (several years) be moved to attic or wnpp? 17:15:49 list of packages: 17:15:50 kuniri 17:15:50 pdfwalker 17:15:50 ruby-astrolabe 17:15:50 ruby-bond 17:15:52 ruby-bundler-ext 17:15:52 ruby-chefspec 17:15:55 ruby-cool.io 17:15:55 ruby-fauxhai 17:15:57 ruby-fileutils 17:15:59 ruby-goldiloader 17:16:03 ruby-gtkhex 17:16:05 ruby-idn 17:16:07 ruby-inspec 17:16:09 ruby-mathgl 17:16:11 ruby-numo-narray 17:16:13 ruby-require-all 17:16:15 ruby-ruby2-keywords 17:16:17 ruby-rubyipmi 17:16:19 ruby-sphinx 17:16:21 ruby-spinach 17:16:23 ruby-statsample 17:16:25 ruby-stemmer 17:16:27 ruby-sys-admin 17:16:29 ruby-totoridipjp 17:16:31 ruby-twitter4r 17:16:35 rumember 17:16:37 taskwarrior-web 17:16:39 transrate 17:17:12 boutil created two of them, which are empty. The rest are repos create dseveral years ago without an upload or any recent work 17:17:21 I think we can leave attic just for packages that were in the archive at some point 17:17:36 pdfwalker is a piece of origami-pdf that has been split 17:17:36 I was wondering if I can/should move them to attic or into mentors (wnpp) 17:17:52 mine could be deleted (since they are empty) 17:17:53 indeed pdfwalker is needed 17:18:12 dleidert may be a new namespace 17:18:14 ruby-ruby2-keywords too 17:18:23 as it does not fit either 17:18:24 I'll move copy taswarrior-web in the dedicated team https://salsa.debian.org/tasktools-team (but anyway taskwarrior-web is unmaintained) 17:18:25 Debian Tasktools Team · GitLab (at salsa.debian.org) 17:18:29 I could (re)push them 17:18:43 abandoned ? 17:19:11 sorry, I just recreated the list today. A very few might be false-positoves. I checked most last night and most of them are years old 17:19:37 I'd never move them without re-checking 17:19:44 dleidert: maybe you can post to the mailing list, and we revisit them next meeting? 17:19:51 so the package I was talking about earlier is in this case (spoolinger) but not listed 17:20:06 terceiro: +1 17:20:11 Sure. Can we agree to put them into mentors and archive the oldest for those we agree to move? 17:20:17 +1 to send and email about it and let interested people show up 17:20:44 Duck: I have an ignore list attic-ignore.list in the team's meta repo. I checked *all* packages without a result from rmadison 17:21:08 dleidert move them to mentors only if someone is ineterested 17:21:16 Otherwise? 17:21:33 🔥 :-) 17:21:39 leave them as is for now? until the next meeting 17:22:13 terceiro: I have destroying other people's work 17:22:15 dleidert: thanks :-))) 17:22:24 That's why I'd like to archive unused ones 17:22:29 dleidert: yeah sure, joking 17:22:31 s/have/hate/ 17:22:32 well it works at least in stable as it's DuckCorp production stuff 17:22:35 dleidert create abandoned namespace or simple delete them 17:22:50 moving is better indeed 17:22:57 I would agree with a abandoned namespace 17:23:38 agree? old repostories, never uploaded should be moved to a ruby-team/abandoned namespace 17:23:52 +1 17:23:54 ok 17:23:56 ok 17:24:05 or orphaned 17:24:12 #agreed old repostories, never uploaded should be moved to a ruby-team/abandoned namespace 17:24:18 more in line with debian terminology 17:24:37 #action dleidert to post to the mailing list with the proposal list of abandoned packages 17:24:53 #info we will revisit the list of abandoned packages in the next meeting 17:24:56 next? 17:25:18 or it could be confusing, abandoned is better 17:25:44 !next 17:26:36 #topic dh_ruby removed built extension in ruby-http-parser when using --gem-install -> Bug? 17:27:02 dleidert: this is actually a bug in ffi-compiler, I provided a patch which utkarsh2102 alteady uploaded 17:27:10 Yeah. We probably don't have to discuss this now. I just hjit us yesterday. We can leave this to the list 17:27:10 that needs to be sent upstream at some point 17:27:27 terceiro: nope, dh_ruby actually deleted it when using --gem-install 17:27:41 dleidert: no, it wasn't deleted 17:28:02 ffi-compiler never installed it to the right location 17:28:09 You are talking about something else. 17:28:24 you mean it deleted the file you insatlled by hand in debian/rules? 17:29:09 No. utkarsh2102 first tried the --gem-install layout and there dh_ruby --install simply deleted the file 17:29:31 maybe we can skip all items that should be made into bug reports, and just discuss what we need to decide together as a team 17:29:37 So we commented out DH_RUBY in d/rules and went with the vendor layout. Then those things happened you were part of 17:29:59 Yes. I'm fine with that. We can discuss these things on the list 17:30:25 the next 2 items should also be bug reports 17:30:33 ack 17:31:02 #topic Wiki updates 17:31:06 who added it? 17:31:34 Me too. Nothing serious. Just apointer 17:31:39 Wiki 17:31:39 -https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/Ruby/Packaging#Handling_of_shebangs 17:31:39 remove ruby-interpreter here 17:31:39 https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/Ruby/Packaging#Updating_a_package_to_a_newer_version 17:31:40 git push --all --follow-tags (pushes tags with commits) 17:31:40 git config --global push.followTags true (sets this behavior by default) 17:31:40 Teams/Ruby/Packaging - Debian Wiki (at wiki.debian.org) 17:31:41 Teams/Ruby/Packaging - Debian Wiki (at wiki.debian.org) 17:31:43 https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/Ruby/IRCMeetings 17:31:44 Teams/Ruby/IRCMeetings - Debian Wiki (at wiki.debian.org) 17:31:44 revive the site? 17:31:52 Should this be revived? https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/Ruby/IRCMeetings 17:31:57 probably yes 17:32:05 utkarsh2102: can you look into it? 17:32:24 do we have a volunteer to do the necessary updates? 17:32:55 shall do if nobody steps up :) 17:33:00 I'll do the first two. Maybe utkarsh2102 can care about IRCMettings 17:33:06 nice 17:33:17 We should probably update the site a sa whole 17:33:30 #action dleider to update Teams/Ruby/Packaging wiki page 17:33:47 #action utkarsh2102 to update Teams/Ruby/IRCMeeting wiki page 17:34:01 yes, please just do it 17:34:15 wikis are great but needed maintainance 17:34:33 #topic handling transitions 17:34:56 #link https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/Ruby/Packaging#Updating_packages_with_API_breaking_changes 17:34:57 Teams/Ruby/Packaging - Debian Wiki (at wiki.debian.org) 17:35:11 PiratePraveen[m]: is there anything that we need to decide about this *now*? 17:35:38 terceiro we decide on the list as well 17:35:47 if something needs to be changed in what I wrote 17:37:06 ok, thanks 17:37:06 #topic Rails 6 transition: when to upload to unstable? 17:37:06 I would say, just after ruby-defaults finished 17:37:06 #topic Rails 6 transition 17:37:47 terceiro +1 17:38:01 anyone against that? 17:38:05 well 17:38:15 redmine is not ready 17:38:25 kanashiro Duck ? 17:38:31 Duck: how long do we wait for it? 17:38:35 and 4.2.0 does not seem to be happening very soon unfortunately 17:39:04 still 86 issues, so that's going to take more time 17:39:07 darn, web apps are supposed to move too fast. now I'm consused -_- 17:39:38 one option is to embed rails 5 in redmine 17:40:02 OMG, there's a task for migration I missed: https://www.redmine.org/issues/29914 17:40:04 Feature #29914: Migrate to Rails 6 - Redmine (at www.redmine.org) 17:40:22 but I think 4.2.0 should be enough to work 17:40:56 terceiro: sorry, no idea about the delay 17:41:02 we did that in gitlab with rails 5.0 when we already uploaded 5.1 which broke gitlab 17:41:03 Duck, maybe we need to live with redmine broken in unstable and out of testing for some time? 17:41:24 and gitlab took a long time to catch up 17:41:40 if we do that then we are not able to update bpo 17:42:11 so this litteraly means we stop all work on redmine until 4.2.0 is out at least 17:42:19 kanashiro embedding rails 5 ? 17:43:06 is there no other blockers really? 17:43:47 gitlab in experimental is already using rails 6 17:44:28 the other app is open-build-service. I personally don't have time to work on that right now and I am not using it anymore, so it'd depend on Andrew Lee's effort 17:44:47 if we go through then I'd like 4.0.6 to be in bpo first, because this version works well 17:46:02 ok, so we work on redmine 4.0.6 until ruby transition ends and after that we can move forward with rails 6 transition 17:46:09 sounds good Duck? ^ 17:46:44 kanashiro: that means: please do upload 4.0.6-2 to bpo, as I still cannot do it myself, sorry 17:47:08 sounds terrible but I understand the need to go on 17:48:03 so can Duck and kanashiro coordinate with srud[m] utkarsh2102 PiratePraveen[m] on when to upload rails 6? 17:48:13 Duck, I'll move this backport up in my priorities 17:48:13 yes Sir 17:48:44 #agreed Duck and kanashiro will coordinate with srud[m] utkarsh2102 PiratePraveen[m] on when to upload rails 6, right after the ruby-defaults transition is done 17:48:49 and finally 17:49:05 #topic Ruby 2.7 transition status 17:49:15 kanashiro: go 17:49:44 hum: https://www.redmine.org/issues/31500 17:49:46 Feature #31500: Ruby 2.7 support - Redmine (at www.redmine.org) 17:49:52 also 4.2.0 17:50:03 we have 2 packages that still need a rebuild against the new ruby-defaults: weechat and passenger 17:50:24 weechat I already provided a patch here: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=954789 17:50:26 I guess for redmine we can also do the same thing 17:50:27 #954789 - weechat FTBFS against ruby 2.7 - Debian Bug report logs (at bugs.debian.org) 17:50:50 and for passenger we need some investigation, it is failing only in armel and armhf 17:51:21 kanashiro: wrt the ruby-bootsnap, we need to add Breaks: to ruby 17:52:44 terceiro, there is no way to trigger autopkgtest of rails related packages with ruby-bootsnap from unstable? 17:53:57 kanashiro: there is, Breaks: 17:54:01 :) 17:54:16 Breaks: ruby-bootsnap (<< VERSION_IN_SID) 17:54:44 testing-proposed-updates? I guess it is not encouraged 17:55:09 is there anything we need to decide as a team? 17:55:23 yes 17:55:30 on this topic? 17:55:31 Ruby 2.7.1 is out. 17:56:00 Should I update it? :) 17:56:07 let's first make 2.7 migrate and then we can think about that 17:56:07 not before the transition ends 17:56:16 on this topic: the list at https://udd.debian.org/cgi-bin/bts-usertags.cgi?user=pkg-ruby-extras-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org&tag=ruby2.7-transition is almost done. But some packages require attention. 17:56:18 User pkg-ruby-extras-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org — Debian BTS Usertag Browser (at udd.debian.org) 17:56:25 of course 17:59:17 I think we are done 17:59:20 1.5h already 17:59:30 #endmeeting