19:02:43 <MadameZou> #startmeeting
19:02:43 <MeetBot> Meeting started Thu Jul 14 19:02:43 2011 UTC.  The chair is MadameZou. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
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19:02:55 <MadameZou> #topic Behind the Scenes with DebConf Team
19:03:03 <moray> Right.
19:03:10 <moray> So first I should disappoint anyone who is expecting a session on the very nice debconf configuration system, this session is about the DebConf conference (we stole their name!)
19:03:25 <moray> It's also not specifically about DebConf11, but about organising DebConf more generally -- though of course questions about DebConf11 are welcome later on.
19:03:26 <Ganneff> or they ours :)
19:03:42 <moray> I thought we'd start by me, with some help, giving an introduction to organising DebConf, then we'll go to a Q&A session after that.
19:03:54 <moray> So if you have questions in the first part please keep them queued up for later (unless I am being *really* unclear and need to explain more immediately).
19:04:01 <moray> DebConf started in 2000 as a small meeting alongside the Libre Software meeting in Bordeaux (in France).
19:04:06 <moray> It quickly then became an independent conference.
19:04:36 <moray> By the time of DebConf3 in Oslo we introduced two things: (i) a Debian "Camp", DebCamp, where people could work on projects, outside the formal conference
19:05:00 <moray> and (ii) someone found a school gym where poor attendees could sleep on the floor rather than pay for a hotel/hostel
19:05:33 <moray> Then at DebConf4 in Brazil we moved into a different world, as we took over a fancy hotel, and extended the length of DebCamp/DebConf even more :)
19:05:50 <moray> By now we tend to have one week of DebCamp followed by one week of DebConf
19:06:24 <moray> for the DebConf team, DebCamp lets us ramp things up slowly before a huge number of attendees arrive -- and of course many other Debian teams use it to work together on projects
19:06:54 <moray> While in the main DebConf week it's often optimistic to think you will achieve a lot of technical work, due to the other distractions!
19:07:12 <moray> We still have varied locations, both in terms of different countries with different cultures
19:07:49 <moray> and in terms of what we can afford, or what we can get sponsored -- for example, sometimes we take over part of a university, sometimes we're in a fancy hotel
19:08:09 <moray> Recently we made an effort to define the *goals* of DebConf
19:08:23 <moray> We all more or less knew what it was for, but it seemed useful to formalise this
19:08:29 <moray> The result is at http://www.debconf.org/goals.shtml
19:09:05 <moray> If you look there, you'll see that talks are obviously a very important part -- and not just for the people who can attend physically, but for a bigger number of people who watch them via the streams or later via recordings
19:09:23 <moray> Time to work on Debian is good for some people, especially during the DebCamp period
19:09:37 <talishte> o/
19:09:46 <moray> And, of course, the special feature of DebConf is bringing so many people together who usually only work together remotely using IRC, email etc.
19:10:06 <moray> DebConf has unsurprisingly grown over the years
19:10:25 <moray> Though the number of attendees seems to have stabilised a bit recently
19:10:46 <moray> Obviously who comes changes each year depending on how easy it is to reach from different countries, how much vacation time people have, etc.
19:10:55 <moray> You can see some statistics for this year at http://munin.debconf.org/debconf.org/skinner.debconf.org.html#Pentabarf
19:11:15 <moray> There's a graph there showing the number of people at the last few DebConfs, as well as more detailed numbers for this year
19:11:40 <moray> Of course, the DebConf team is active all year round, not just during DebConf itself.
19:11:55 <moray> The bid process for DebConf starts more than two years before the DebConf in question
19:12:20 <moray> with teams from different countries considering if they are ready for the work involved, and how they could best host other Debian contributors in their country.
19:12:46 <moray> About 18 months before DebConf we come to the most formalised stage, when we finally have to make a decision of where DebConf will happen
19:13:09 <moray> By now we have a lot of materials to help bid teams here (too much, we need to reduce it!)
19:13:46 <moray> But of course it can be emotional choosing between several good contenders, so we have to try to make sure that no one is upset by the outcome :)
19:14:00 <moray> And there's always the chance for unsuccessful bids to try again another year
19:14:24 <moray> Later, the most serious work on DebConf starts after the previous DebConf is finished.
19:14:43 <moray> In reality, there's typically a lull after one DebConf, then a panic when people realise that time is moving on quickly. ;)
19:14:58 <moray> So, what is the DebConf team?
19:15:10 <moray> It includes anyone who helps make DebConf happen successfully
19:15:30 <MadameZou> (good timing!)
19:15:31 <moray> so, to some extent it would be true to say that every DebConf attendee is also a DebConf team member :p
19:16:05 <moray> one of the easiest ways to get involved, which *does* include many attendees, is by helping out with jobs during the conference
19:16:35 <moray> For example, the 'front desk' (registration etc.), general setup, helping run talks, or working on the video team.
19:17:24 <Ganneff> (laying cables, checking food tickets, guiding people)
19:17:27 <moray> There are also a lot of different teams that work all year round -- the 'local team' (anyone focussed on a specific DebConf year, really, though especially the people based close to the location), the talks team, the sponsorship team, the admin team, the rooms team, the budget team, ... and many others.
19:17:50 <moray> For an idea of some of those, see http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/Jobs or for this year specifically http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf11/Teams
19:18:20 <moray> I'd now like to ask a few other DebConf team people to take a minute or two each to describe one of the specific teams where they work.
19:18:33 <moray> So people can have an idea of how they function in practice.
19:19:11 <moray> leogg: maybe you can go on the DebConf12 team bid team?
19:19:22 <leogg> moray, sure
19:19:29 <leogg> hi all
19:19:42 <leogg> in case you don't know me, my name is Leandro and I'm part of the DC12 local team
19:20:03 <leogg> I'm going to talk a bit about how we prepared our bid and the lessons learned
19:20:14 <Ganneff> Well. There is the admin team. We keep the servers (and there is quite a lot of them) running all year. Keep all the software there that the team needs (think of the wiki, pentabarf, websites, lists). and during the conference we also do whatever is needed for the local part. then we add more people with rights just on the local servers, but to manage whatever is there to do during the conf (we have a good number of servers also during ...
19:20:15 <Ganneff> ... conf added. video encoding. storage. streaming. mirror. dns, whatever you imagine)
19:21:21 <Ganneff> There are those running the lists. mainly moderating mails. then those for the gallery. we are starting a wiki team now, to manage that (want to join? meet me at debconf).
19:22:09 <Ganneff> there was a dedicated website team, but that got defunct and is currently mainly a thing done by "whoever has time from the global and local teams"
19:22:22 <Ganneff> and i think im done for right now.
19:22:27 <moray> leogg again?
19:22:36 <leogg> take two :)
19:22:55 <leogg> ok, so... the first thing you have to do is forming a team (you can't do everything yourself)
19:23:09 <leogg> make sure everyone on your team shares the same vision
19:23:20 <leogg> have people you've worked with in the past on the team
19:23:27 <leogg> (or at least people you enjoy work with)
19:23:40 <leogg> there's going to be a LOT of stress, so it's easier to deal with it if you have team mates with whom you communicate well
19:23:51 <leogg> check the 'Location Check List' and the 'Priority List'
19:24:00 <leogg> http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/LocationCheckList
19:24:07 <leogg> http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/PriorityList
19:24:16 <leogg> and split the work according to that
19:24:29 <leogg> you have to do a huge bit of research
19:24:35 <leogg> check the wiki of previous DebConfs
19:24:42 <leogg> check the final reports
19:24:49 <leogg> check the meeting logs
19:24:56 <leogg> check the mailing list
19:25:05 <leogg> make sure you understand how DebConf works
19:25:13 <leogg> if you don't know: ASK!
19:25:23 <leogg> if you think you know: ASK!
19:25:34 <leogg> be aware of potential problems and bottlenecks
19:25:41 <leogg> make sure you have a solution to those problems
19:25:50 <leogg> when you're planning, don't settle with the first option
19:25:59 <leogg> always have a backup plan
19:26:06 <leogg> (and a backup plan of the backup plan) ;)
19:26:15 <leogg> some lessons we've learned:
19:26:23 <leogg> 1. communication is the key
19:26:33 <leogg> as the Local Team you have to remember that there is a Global Team working in DebConf every year
19:26:44 <leogg> you have to work togheter with the Global Team
19:26:56 <leogg> Local Team has the local knowledge and can make all the arrangements for DebConf
19:27:15 <leogg> Global Team knows about the potential problems organizing DebConf (they've been there, seen that)
19:27:27 <leogg> so, working together is the best (a must?) in order to succeed
19:27:35 <leogg> 2. delegate
19:27:45 <leogg> organizing DebConf is not a one-man-task, avoid burnouts
19:27:56 <leogg> you will have a lot of stress, so you have to prepare for this
19:28:03 <leogg> 3. it's never too early to plan
19:28:18 <leogg> some things, such as finding sponsors, or the appropiate venue, takes a lot of time
19:28:25 <leogg> plan early, plan often
19:28:36 <leogg> 4. get involved in the planning of the previous DebConf
19:28:49 <leogg> it's a great way to learn on how to plan a successful event
19:29:01 <leogg> 5. DebConf is a good way to join the Debian Project if you want to start collaborate
19:29:14 <leogg> 6. lolcats are funny
19:29:21 <MadameZou> :)
19:29:22 <leogg> 7. And do not forget, there will be no problem :)
19:29:26 <leogg> *FIN*
19:29:33 <moray> thanks leogg
19:29:42 <leogg> :)
19:29:45 <moray> bwh: can you say something for a minute or two about the video team?
19:30:39 <bwh> The video team is responsible for both video and audio support
19:31:26 <bwh> At the conference we are responsible for PA (public address = loudspeakers) in large rooms, and projectors, so the audience can see and hear talks properly
19:32:16 <bwh> Secondly, we set up cameras, additional microphones and recording facilities so that talks are recorded for future reference and for people who can't attend
19:32:48 <bwh> Thirdly, we try to provide live video streams so those people who can't attend may also follow along while the conference is going
19:33:30 <bwh> The video team requires a large number of part-time volunteers to operate equipment and to review the results
19:34:31 <moray> Are you going to mention the free video team t-shirt? :)
19:34:42 * nomada says Hi...
19:34:49 <Ganneff> hey, there is a free volunteer shirt too, if we can suck you in for enough work :)
19:35:01 <bwh> moray: I think you just spoiled that surprise
19:35:07 <moray> sorry :)
19:35:20 <MadameZou> limited edition shirts, I guess :)
19:35:37 <moray> I should also say that the video team are so good we have other conferences trying to hire them. :)
19:36:02 <bwh> Training will be provided for video team volunteers. But you'll learn more by doing the work.
19:37:31 <Ganneff> next? :)
19:38:13 <moray> ok -- the video team also created their own software etc. to make this stuff possible, I'm sure there's some interesting work for more volunteers in that part too
19:38:18 <moray> darst: can you talk about the budget team?
19:38:37 <TetsuyO> good evening :)
19:38:50 <darst> basically, it is trying to track expenses to be able to tell the team what we can and can't spend money on
19:38:55 <darst> and how bad the situation is at the moment
19:39:17 <darst> it's hard, because every year the conference is so different, different cost structure, different things free, ...
19:39:26 <darst> also the number of attendees is unknown and fluctuates
19:39:52 <darst> this year, I had a spreadsheet in debconf-data svn and kept trying to add the numbers I saw to it
19:40:07 <darst> then, there is incomes: we get money from sponsors
19:40:20 <darst> but they may pay months later after debconf
19:40:35 <darst> attendee payments, we have been better at getting those before debconf
19:40:50 <darst> so the other part is tracking what money exists where and what is expected
19:40:57 <darst> to be able to give useful reports of what we _can_ do
19:41:53 <darst> there is a public ledger in debconf-data svn, and private spreadsheets in debconf-team svn tracking attendee payments and sponsor payments
19:42:35 <darst> that's mostly it
19:42:41 <darst> as for the goals
19:43:12 <darst> it can also be hard finding how much money all the different organizations hold for debconf - so it's hard to know what is deposited or not, but that's a separate problem, almost
19:44:13 <darst> I try to keep as much public as possible, so if you want, just look, see the things, and try to improve
19:44:56 <moray> that goes for most of DebConf of course -- it's like Debian, you get involved by getting involved, not by waiting for people to find you :)
19:45:27 <darst> so if you want to help: mostly watching lists/irc, asking questions to find costs, adding to budget spreadsheet, or if you can get the private svn access, update stuff there from bank acconts
19:45:52 <Ganneff> (you can get private access by having done work and us knowing you...)
19:46:21 <moray> thanks darst
19:46:36 <moray> just before we move to questions, I'll point to a few things
19:46:54 <moray> http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/Category:DebConf_Manual has information on a lot of bits of DebConf, though there's more to be written there
19:47:05 <moray> http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/BidProcess documents the bid process in more detail
19:47:36 <moray> For most organisational issues, we use the debconf-team mailing list, though there are also specific team ones for some parts
19:48:05 <moray> And of course, there's #debconf IRC for normal chat, and #debconf-team IRC for for actual organisational work
19:48:24 <moray> Let's go to some questions now, before people need to start disappearing :)
19:48:30 <MadameZou> ok :)
19:48:46 <MadameZou> <@MadameZou> QUESTION: how many teams usually work on their specific project during DebCamp?
19:48:55 <Ganneff> varies
19:49:19 <moray> It's hard to judge that, because many Debian people are in several teams, and also because we don't spy on their laptops. :)
19:49:36 <MadameZou> eheh :)
19:49:47 <moray> We do ask for some information about people's plans for DebCamp, but that's more to check it's sensible than to keep a census.
19:50:02 <MadameZou> ok thanks
19:50:07 <MadameZou> < mehdi> QUESTION: how many teams are involved in DebConf's organization? How do they interact with each other?
19:50:22 <moray> Well, the URLs I posted above give some idea about different teams.
19:50:40 <moray> Most of them just interact through the debconf-team list and IRC channel
19:51:03 <moray> As usual in Debian, things tend to just happen by people working on them, without a complicated hierarchical structure
19:51:32 <moray> And team boundaries are fluid -- the same jobs can be done by one team in one year, and separate teams in another.
19:52:08 <moray> You can also look at the final report credits for an individual DebConf for one view on this.
19:52:15 <moray> [next]
19:52:24 <MadameZou> < mehdi> QUESTION: What does the DebConf team during all year? (you said it was active during all year round)
19:52:48 <moray> Even though DebConf is 'only' two weeks, there is almost always something to be worked on.
19:53:01 <moray> And things like hotel or conference facility reservations can't be left until too late.
19:53:14 <Ganneff> final report. leftovers from old conf.  start with next one.
19:53:21 <moray> So in the early stages of one DebConf, there will only be a few major things to be organised, that can take a long time, though.
19:53:30 <moray> Then as you get closer to DebConf, there are more and more things.
19:53:47 <moray> And like Ganneff said, there are also things that hang over beyond an individual DebConf.
19:54:04 <moray> [next]
19:54:07 <MadameZou> <@MadameZou> QUESTION: (wrt to "motivate local community" goal) have you some data/statistics/impression about the impact of debconf on the local communities (Did communities grow after debconf?)
19:54:34 <moray> Well, that's listed as a secondary goal partly because it is difficult to measure.
19:54:43 <moray> And it's hard to say what would be best, indeed.
19:55:02 <moray> Is it more useful to get the first DD in a new country, or to motivate an existing Debian community to work together more?
19:55:33 <moray> The clearest cases perhaps are people who've started working on DebConf itself because it would happen in their own country
19:55:58 <moray> and become part of the Debian community that way -- then have wanted to continue/increase their Debian involvement afterwards.
19:56:01 <moray> [next
19:56:06 <MadameZou> < mehdi> QUESTION: did you manage to attract new Debian contributors from local volunteers?
19:56:10 <MadameZou> :)
19:56:16 <MadameZou> just answered
19:56:23 <moray> ha, well, maybe someone else can point to real examples
19:56:40 <moray> I know this has happened, but I don't have a list of names ready
19:57:06 <moray> and I don't want to insult people if I just hadn't noticed their previous involvement!
19:57:41 <moray> of course, there are also some people who continue contributing to Debian every year after being local volunteers ...
19:58:02 <moray> ... by continuing to work on DebConf itself.  And that's one way they can be useful to the rest of the community.
19:58:05 <moray> [next]
19:58:10 <rmayorga> I know some people, from .ar
19:58:12 <MadameZou> < mehdi> QUESTION; can you elaborate on the bid process? How debconf+2 location is chosen?
19:58:28 <moray> Well, I posted the formal documents above.
19:58:43 <moray> One of the most important things, though, is to see how the teams work together
19:58:59 <moray> It's important that we are offered nice facilities for DebConf
19:59:18 <moray> but, we know that it's very important to have a good local team, who work together closely and understand who Debian functions
19:59:36 <moray> It's hard to know that for sure early on, but we do try to take it into account
19:59:41 <moray> Cost is another big factor
19:59:44 <Ganneff> (DebConf is WAY different to a "normal" conference, so just a "we did a different event, will work" wont help)
20:00:07 <moray> Sometimes teams propose things that sound nice to them, 5-star hotels, high-quality venue etc.
20:00:18 <moray> But if they can't also propose how we'll pay for it, that doesn't work.
20:00:51 <moray> So usually we end up being able to pay for fancier facilities in cheaper countries, and use less fancy ones when we're in more expensive countries
20:01:12 <moray> And while it can be nice to have a fancy hotel room to sleep in -- that's really not what makes DebConf valuable
20:01:41 <moray> We ask the bid teams lots of questions before it comes to a formal decision meeting
20:02:00 <moray> so ones which really aren't ready will typically realise that and withdraw
20:02:34 <moray> that means that ones which make it to the final decision meeting tend to at minimum 'good enough', and it can be hard to make the decision this long in advance
20:03:19 <moray> but, we know from experience that we need to start work this long before, so in the worst case we have to put up with getting it somehow wrong, as long as it is still 'good enough' for us!
20:03:23 <moray> [next]
20:03:24 <MadameZou> < mehdi> QUESTION: can you define "good local team"?
20:03:42 <moray> well, leogg talked about that earlier from his own perspective
20:03:55 <moray> obviously it's good to have lots of people
20:04:02 <moray> But it's also important how they work together
20:04:07 <moray> And how motivated they are.
20:04:52 <moray> As a broad generalisation, I'd say that we seem to end up with more 'motivated' local teams from countries which aren't the most obvious conference destinations
20:05:09 <moray> Because they're more excited to have others visit their country, to share it with them
20:05:41 <moray> This can go *too* far, when it translates into them wanting us to live in a 5-star bubble, to prove that their country can provide that...
20:06:25 <moray> A good local team is basically just one that functions as a real team, though.
20:06:27 <zobel> re
20:06:38 <moray> Not just a list of names that someone collected to look good on a wiki page
20:06:58 <moray> And not just one person and friends of theirs who they bullied to add their names to the list
20:07:23 <moray> We *have* had DebConfs where the local team was mostly one or two people, and that was never fun for those people!
20:07:26 <moray> [next]
20:07:29 <MadameZou> (another bid-related) < mehdi> QUESTION: what should be presented in every bid?
20:07:39 <Ganneff> read the docs? :)
20:07:53 <moray> http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/LocationCheckList is the main official thing
20:08:04 <mehdi> fwiw, I asked the question before he gave links to the docs :)
20:08:06 <moray> though as I said, we plan to cut that down a bit to show what is most important
20:08:11 <moray> as it has grown over the years.
20:08:14 <moray> [next]
20:08:24 <MadameZou> < pabs> QUESTION: what issues might DebConf come across if it were to be held outside of the Americas/Europe? have there been bids from Africa/Asia/Oceania yet?
20:08:56 <moray> I don't remember that there have been real bids from these places, no.
20:09:12 <Ganneff> there had been thoughts, but its not so easy there with a conf like ours
20:09:31 <moray> That's partly just from the distribution of Debian contributors -- we have very few people from Africa, and are very underrepresented in Asia compared to the population
20:09:54 <moray> For a long time madduck used to campaign to have DebConf in Thailand
20:09:58 <moray> but it never really came to anyone
20:10:16 <moray> And people frequently ask for a DebConf in Japan, but the people asking aren't the ones who would have to do the work.
20:10:36 <Ganneff> there are thoughts of taiwan too
20:10:53 <moray> There's also an indirect cost issue -- DebConf in Australia might be nice, but it would mean that most attendees would have a very long journey and very expensive fares.
20:10:59 <moray> [next]
20:11:03 <MadameZou> < mehdi> QUESTION: (for admin team): Now that relationship between Debian and DebConf is clarified, will DSA administrate DebConf servers?
20:11:22 <Ganneff> well. some few could be, but in general it doesnt make too much sense
20:11:33 <Ganneff> as debconf has a wildly changing team accessing stuff
20:11:45 <Ganneff> and each year gains about 10 or so machines extra, for two weeks
20:12:26 <Ganneff> not all of the team are DDs too, and need access to stuff we have
20:12:39 <Ganneff> so i dont think DSA should take over the machines.
20:12:44 <Ganneff> [next]
20:12:49 <MadameZou> < mehdi> QUESTION: (for local team) when do start looking for sponsors? (maybe a stupid question, but I'm curious :))
20:13:02 <moray> maybe leogg is meant here?
20:13:11 <moray> though in practice most of the sponsors tend to be 'global'
20:13:38 <moray> There is a fundraising (sponsors) team, which partly continues from year to year, to look at this.
20:13:42 <leogg> well, as I said, it's never too early to look for sponsorship
20:13:51 <moray> As in any kind of fundraising, it's much easier to keep existing donors than gain new ones.
20:14:10 <moray> And many companies make their own giving commitments more than a year ahead of time.
20:14:28 <leogg> yes, that's definitely something you have to keep in mind
20:14:29 <moray> Setting their budget in advance, for a financial year at a time.
20:14:50 <leogg> and if you're seekin government support
20:16:05 <leogg> sorry, [next?]
20:16:08 <moray> [next]
20:16:11 <MadameZou> < ruipb> Is there any way a volunteer can help remotely and there is any tradition of doing some work remotely beeing member of a certain Debian Team (for instance l10n or l18n) during the Debconf?
20:16:20 <Ganneff> yes, you can do lots remote.
20:16:27 <moray> see http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/Jobs
20:16:34 <moray> that explicitly lists some things you can do remotely
20:16:35 <Ganneff> helping listmod, some admin stuff, website (contents), ..., see morays link
20:16:41 <moray> though there is also just "helping organise"
20:16:57 <moray> i.e. keeping track of everything, sending reminders, watching for potential problems.
20:17:21 <moray> Richard Darst has done a huge amount of brilliant work for DebConf, while not attending.
20:17:37 <moray> Indeed, he tried to keep up his non-attendance record even when it was happening in the next building. ;)
20:17:54 <moray> For the second part of the question -
20:18:09 <moray> not a big tradition really, but some 'DebConf' things can or should be done by regular Debian teams
20:18:20 <moray> so yes, translation etc., but also for example press work
20:18:35 <Ganneff> we just today redirected press@dc.o to press@d.o :)
20:18:36 <moray> we've occasionally tried having a specific DebConf press team, but that's never actually worked very well.
20:18:51 <moray> And I'm sure there are other teams which should be 'merged back' into overall Debian teams.
20:19:29 <moray> Equally, it's worth considering e.g. (I know there are some arguments against) having the DebConf fundraising team used to bootstrap a more general Debian fundraising team that's not just for DebConf.
20:19:38 <moray> [next]
20:19:44 <MadameZou> < pabs> QUESTION: has DebConf ever had translators translate live talks or subtitle recordings from previous years?
20:20:11 <moray> We have used live translators at some Debian Day events, IIRC.
20:20:17 <Ganneff> that was considered at one conf in the past, but only used debianday
20:20:20 <Ganneff> i think dc6
20:20:25 <Ganneff> the rates for live translators are HIGH
20:20:39 <moray> Yes, and, it's still really necessary to speak English fairly well to work on Debian at all.
20:20:42 <Ganneff> really high. and for subtitle stuff added later - we miss the manpower
20:21:08 <Ganneff> its hard to already get all the videos reviewed, cut and pieced together
20:21:17 <Ganneff> adding subtitles would add another huge delay right now
20:21:22 <moray> So as long as DebConf is really a *developer* conference, the live talks can get by being in English, as long as non-native speakers occasionally throw blunt objects to make us native speakers be more clear. :)
20:21:52 <moray> For the videos, it would be great if someone works on adding subtitles to them, as long as (like Ganneff says) it doesn't delay them being initially posted.
20:22:05 <Ganneff> ohyes
20:22:40 <moray> [next]
20:22:43 <MadameZou> <@MadameZou> QUESTION: (for video team) do we know how many people usually follow live streams?
20:22:46 <Ganneff> or maybe just have transcripts and translate them
20:22:54 <Ganneff> we had statistics for that in the past
20:23:02 <Ganneff> per server.
20:23:15 <Ganneff> two digit count per stream, iirc
20:23:21 <Ganneff> per server. or so
20:23:26 <MadameZou> great, thanks
20:23:27 <moray> and how many servers?
20:23:27 <zobel> ~50?
20:23:32 <Ganneff> stats had been in dc specific munin
20:23:37 <moray> yeah
20:23:39 <Ganneff> would need to dig, but we have that somewhere too
20:23:48 <Ganneff> but some 50, til 80 or so top
20:23:51 <Ganneff> at once.
20:24:39 <moray> And a lot more people watch the videos later on, though I don't think we track numbers.
20:24:43 <moray> [next]
20:24:46 <Ganneff> http://munin.debconf.org/archive/dc8/homer.dc8.debconf.org-munin_debconf_videolisteners_Salon_del_mar_ogv.html is one example of a stat
20:24:47 <Ganneff> random from dc8
20:25:11 <Ganneff> (sorry, next)
20:25:20 <MadameZou> <@MadameZou> QUESTION: (for video/press team) what about nice behind the scenes video, or fun debconf videos to promote DebConf (Team)?
20:25:43 <moray> There has been some "attendees behind the scenes" video before, I'm not sure that was very popular though. :)
20:25:44 <Ganneff> good idea, you volunteer to help? :)
20:26:06 <moray> That is, it was popular to watch, not so popular with the people who were filmed!
20:26:35 <MadameZou> Ganneff: uh, I've never filmed anything but ... there's always a first time (we say in Italy)
20:26:36 <moray> I don't think anyone has tried an actual "DebConf team behind the scenes" video, though yes, please go ahead and try to make one.
20:27:03 <moray> Probably better to concentrate first on promoting Debian/DebConf itself, if someone is doing extra video work during DebConf.
20:27:26 <moray> As we have a lot of people together to do interviews etc.
20:27:27 <moray> [next]
20:27:33 <MadameZou> < mehdi> QUESTION: (budget team) Do you work with Debian's Auditors?
20:27:56 <moray> darst: ?
20:28:05 <moray> Though I know there was some attempt at doing that.
20:28:10 <darst> I would like to...
20:28:11 <Ganneff> i think they do
20:28:12 <Ganneff> or should
20:28:23 <darst> once a thread on debian-project was cced to that, but I didn't hear anything back
20:28:37 <darst> also i volunteered to help the debian auditors, but didn't hear anything back yes
20:28:51 <Ganneff> pipe via dpl?
20:29:18 <moray> The budget team is actually one of the areas where the DebConf-specific work is probably more complicated than the rest of the Debian work together
20:29:23 <darst> so for now, we use SPI and FFIS (two main debian money-holding organizations), but different earmarks to aid in tracking things
20:30:14 <darst> (easier to make sure I haven't missed anything/miscategorized, reconcile accounts)
20:30:28 <darst> the DPL was the one that added the cc to aditors
20:30:46 <darst> I figure we'll talk more after debconf
20:31:28 <darst> (done)
20:31:31 <MadameZou> (I think this was already answered, but as it's in my queue...) < mehdi> QUESTION (general): how big is local team usually?
20:32:00 <moray> yeah, I think we covered that above -- maximum is hard to say, it's not restricted to people in the area
20:32:10 <moray> minimum might be one person, but that's a very bad idea
20:32:32 <moray> usually, we have two or three very active people, helping organise a team of say 10 or 20, guessing?
20:32:42 <Ganneff> fits
20:32:45 <moray> that team itself will usually change size during the year, too
20:32:59 <moray> more for the bid, then people lose interest, then a different set of people appear towards the conference :)
20:33:04 <moray> [next]
20:33:06 <MadameZou> < n0rman> QUESTION: is there any difference with local team members and global team members?
20:33:22 <moray> well, from my perspective 'global' should include everyone
20:33:39 <moray> 'local' means people who are nearby, or who are only focussed on the practical issues for a specific location
20:33:58 <moray> the distinction exists mostly because the 'local' team list is often in the local language
20:34:01 <Ganneff> local usually also drop out right after the conf (so we are happy for any that stay)
20:34:18 <Ganneff> s/so/though/
20:34:26 <moray> and sometimes we have separate 'local' meetings, in person or online in that language
20:34:45 <moray> but, anyone local is also a member of the 'global' team for as long as they want to be
20:34:54 <moray> [next]
20:34:57 <MadameZou> < eof> QUESTION: why do you involved in the DebConf Team? i.e. what you like in this work? and what things should or can be better (e.g. new blood or more manpower :) )?
20:35:24 <moray> for myself, I suppose I enjoyed going to DebConf?
20:35:34 <Ganneff> fun. it helps debian. you get to see a lot of different places (and pay back with work). you meet lots of people. fun. fun. and again fun.
20:35:55 <moray> and then got fooled into helping run the UK bid, which turned into helping lead it (DebConf7)
20:36:12 <moray> and then, I just found it a fun thing to continue doing
20:36:23 <Ganneff> similar question: why do you get involved into debian. this is just one more thing like it.
20:36:26 <moray> really, the same reasons that someone who uses Debian would want to contribute to Debian at all
20:36:31 <moray> Ganneff: snap
20:36:34 <Ganneff> moray: slow you
20:36:36 <moray> [next]
20:36:41 <MadameZou> < zobel> question: are persons who concentrate on specific areas of debconf (like video or network or press) considered volunteers or DebConf team members?
20:36:54 <Ganneff> depends when and how much they do.
20:37:07 <moray> Right, but for me everyone involved at all is a 'DebConf team member'
20:37:14 <Ganneff> just run a camera? or do lotsa stuff (whatever it is). just during conf, on directions of others?
20:37:25 <moray> the term 'volunteer' is mostly for people who do specific jobs *during the conference* and aren't involved outside that period
20:37:26 <Ganneff> (and i guess team member he means thos in black shirts namd "orga")
20:37:42 <Ganneff> (my e seems to be dying)
20:37:46 <moray> Ganneff: the t-shirts are merged now though :)
20:37:51 <Ganneff> oh meh :)
20:37:56 <Ganneff> bad u
20:38:04 <Ganneff> voluorga?
20:38:07 <Ganneff> (next?) :)
20:38:10 <moray> [next]
20:38:14 <MadameZou> no more questions :)
20:38:17 <Ganneff> oh wow
20:38:40 <Ganneff> question to the attendees: satisfied? when are you going to help debconf work? :)
20:38:56 * zobel already does :)
20:39:15 * n0rman is doing it :)
20:39:32 <moray> of course, we look forward to working with everyone during DebConf, if you're coming
20:39:34 * rmayorga will try
20:39:37 * ruipb is remotely preparing himself :P
20:39:37 * pabs is planning on looking at video subtitling and related bits
20:39:40 <MadameZou> I've really enjoyed this session, there are a lot of interesting stuff behind DebConf and it's quite incredible how you people could manage all of these things
20:39:43 <eof> we'll think about it ;-)
20:39:43 <moray> even if you don't try to be part of the DebConf team, all attendees can help it work well
20:39:45 <Ganneff> we are always happy to have more people do work, yes
20:39:46 <mehdi> Ganneff: make a list of things to do on wiki :)
20:40:02 <MadameZou> wrt to subtitles, we could coordinate with l10n teams
20:40:02 <Ganneff> mehdi: during debconf i prefer to just grab people and pull them to work :)
20:40:34 <mehdi> Ganneff: hah
20:40:38 <moray> and, it's not too late to run a DebConf13 bid!
20:40:46 <ruipb> :)
20:40:47 <pabs> MadameZou: indeed, need transcriptions first, which is where -l10n-english and (perhaps) -user come in
20:40:48 <Ganneff> mehdi: hey, there is more than one who got pulled...
20:40:49 <rmayorga> mehdi: are you trying to go for dc13 bid ?
20:40:50 <zobel> .de!
20:40:57 <moray> so, maybe we can finally get some bids from those 'other' countries mentioned above
20:41:01 <moray> or Germany again, yes :)
20:41:06 <zobel> again?!
20:41:11 <Ganneff> well
20:41:12 <Ganneff> we run once
20:41:17 <zobel> we never had a Conf in Germany.
20:41:18 <Ganneff> maybe another time again, lets see
20:41:20 <Ganneff> zobel: we had a bid
20:41:27 <MadameZou> pabs: I mean with a little bit of good promotion and a call for translators we could get the work (the translation) done quite easily and cover various languages
20:41:27 <mehdi> rmayorga: I don't think so. Didn't hear of any real plan, at least.
20:41:55 <pabs> MadameZou: hmm, I dunno. x years times y talks sounds like a lot of translation to me :)
20:41:59 <zobel> MadameZou: btw for "Ask the DSA team" it seems all members of the DSA team will be present
20:42:00 <mehdi> It could be nice in Italy or France… but, …
20:42:01 <eof> zobel: ack for .de!
20:42:16 <Ganneff> MadameZou: soo, close this session? :)
20:42:22 * pabs fears .au is too inactive to contemplate DebConf this decade
20:42:27 <MadameZou> pabs: but you're right about transcriptions, and I think I'll be useless for that
20:42:35 <MadameZou> zobel: wow!
20:42:37 <Ganneff> .au has their own conf
20:42:40 <Ganneff> and run a debian session
20:42:41 <MadameZou> Ganneff: right :)
20:42:44 <Ganneff> so its not very likely to get dc
20:42:45 <MadameZou> #endmeeting