19:03:49 <MadameZou> #startmeeting
19:03:49 <MeetBot> Meeting started Fri Jul  1 19:03:49 2011 UTC.  The chair is MadameZou. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:03:49 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
19:04:01 <MadameZou> #topic One day with Debian Perl Team
19:04:03 <gregoa> ok, hello and welcome everybody!
19:04:20 <gregoa> it's nice to see many new faces (well, nicknames) here and also some well-known ones
19:04:24 <lisandro> o/
19:04:33 <gregoa> (the latter can probably help me a bit :))
19:04:58 <gregoa> before I start to tell something about the group you might want to prepare a few things:
19:05:08 <gregoa> 1) a large screen for many windows :)
19:05:26 <gregoa> 2) if you want to try packaging we need to install at least dh-make-perl subversion devscripts quilt
19:05:49 <gregoa> 3) if you install dh-make-perl please run dh-make-perl refresh-cache now (to save time later)
19:05:54 <zobel> and an editor.
19:06:03 <gregoa> right, thanks
19:06:30 <gregoa> 4) I'm termcasting one of my terminals so can just kick back and watch what I'M doing:
19:06:47 <gregoa> telnet termcast.org and choose the DayWithTheDebianPerlGroup channel there
19:07:17 <gregoa> (the termcast is done - surprise - with a perl module called App::Termcast, packaged as libapp-termcast-perl)
19:07:27 <MadameZou> (cool!)
19:07:41 <gregoa> 5) you may also want to join #debian-perl to see commit messages later, or just see what's going on there
19:08:04 <gregoa> ok, so much for the preparation
19:08:39 <gregoa> good. about me: you probably know that my name is gregor herrmann. I'm austrian, am a member of the debian perl group since 2006 and I'm a DD since 2008
19:09:26 <gregoa> I joined the group in a very typical way: I packaged a perl module, looked for a sponsor, and then gunnar wolf said "hey, why don't you join the team?" - and I'm still there :)
19:09:33 <gregoa> so, about this team:
19:09:52 <gregoa> what are we doing? we are packaging perl modules, usually from the CPAN, for debian
19:10:05 <gregoa> (not perl, the interpreter itself)
19:10:24 <gregoa> we are using alioth.debian.org for cooperation
19:10:27 <gregoa> some links:
19:10:38 <gregoa> #link http://wiki.debian.org/Teams/DebianPerlGroup - general overiew
19:10:55 <gregoa> #link http://wiki.debian.org/Teams/DebianPerlGroup/Welcome - why and how you would want to join
19:11:20 <gregoa> #link http://pkg-perl.alioth.debian.org - our homepage with docs, howtos and other stuff
19:11:29 <gregoa> ok, some numbers about the group:
19:11:44 <gregoa> at the beginning of the week the project had 179 members in alioth
19:12:03 <gregoa> that's alot. but there are people I've never seen in the last 5 years :)
19:12:18 <gregoa> during the last year 71 people made at least one commit to our svn repo
19:12:33 <gregoa> and in total there were 16814 in the last year
19:12:40 <gregoa> +commits
19:12:59 <gregoa> the number of packages we are maintaining is ~2000 at the moment
19:13:14 <gregoa> how can we manage so many packages?
19:13:47 <gregoa> 1) they are similar, 2) most of them are simple, 3) most upstream authors are great, 4) we have nice tools
19:14:02 <gregoa> one especially nice tool is PET:
19:14:14 <gregoa> #link http://pkg-perl.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/pet.cgi - classical PET
19:14:36 <gregoa> #link http://pet.43-1.org/pkg-perl/pet.cgi - PET2 (with support for git and remote repos etc.)
19:15:07 <gregoa> PET(2) shows as what we need to work on: packages with bugs, with new upstream releases, ready for upload etc.
19:15:18 <gregoa> oh, I forget a final link to numbers:
19:15:41 <gregoa> #link http://pkg-perl.alioth.debian.org/docs/miniDebConf-paris2010/miniDebConf-paris2010.pdf - presentation by xoswald dodathome and me from last fall
19:16:18 <gregoa> alright, that was the introduction about the group. are there any questions so far before we get our hands dirty?
19:16:36 <raschipi> last spring for me, a am in the other hemisphere
19:16:51 <gregoa> raschipi: oops, sorry
19:17:26 <gregoa> everyone ready so far? tools installed, termcast running?
19:17:59 * pau4o is ready
19:18:13 <cubuanic> which is size of your term, in chars?
19:18:23 * TetsuyO is ready too
19:18:32 <darkestkhan> ready
19:18:44 * MadameZou too
19:18:53 <gregoa> cubuanic: good question. no idea how awesome and urxvt would tell me. it's the quarter of my screen :)
19:19:10 <mxey> gregoa: stty size
19:19:25 <zobel> hi mxey
19:19:26 <gregoa> ok, I though to show how to create a package from scratch, which involves the BTS, dh-make-perl and subversion
19:19:28 <cubuanic> echo $COLUMNS $LINES
19:19:34 <gregoa> mxey: thanks! 37 119
19:19:41 <cubuanic> ok, thx
19:19:50 * cubuanic ready
19:19:55 * gregoa learns something new every day in debian :)
19:20:14 <gregoa> question one: which package? let's take one where there is an RFP (request for packaging) bug
19:20:38 <gregoa> we can get thme from http://bugs.debian.org/wnpp (slow), http://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/ or http://pkg-perl.alioth.debian.org/qa/wnpp.html
19:20:45 * zobel looks for a hard one :)
19:20:48 <gregoa> the last one only lists lib.*-perl packages
19:20:55 <gregoa> zobel: I have already chosen one :)
19:21:18 <gregoa> and the one is http://bugs.debian.org/564106 Template::Plugin::Gravatar
19:21:44 <gregoa> as a first step I will now tell the BTS and the rest of the world them I'm going to package it
19:22:12 <gregoa> with the bts utility:
19:22:18 <gregoa> bts retitle 564106 "ITP: Template::Plugin::Gravatar - configurable TT2-based generation of Gravatar URLs from email addresses" . owner it \!
19:22:24 <gregoa> (from devscripts)
19:22:43 <gregoa> an alternative would be to send a plain mail to control@bugs.debian.org with the commands
19:22:55 <gregoa> and now: let's see dh-make-perl at work:
19:23:07 <gregoa> dh-make-perl --pkg-perl --source-format "3.0 (quilt)" --dh 8 --closes 564106 --cpan Template::Plugin::Gravatar
19:23:26 <gregoa> I hope it works for others too with a different machine than mine
19:23:33 <gregoa> will it works some info:
19:23:44 <gregoa> dh-make-perl will make a draft package for us.
19:23:58 <gregoa> --pkg-perl set the maintainer to the debian perl group and some other things
19:24:30 <gregoa> --source-format and --dh tell something about the way we want the package (as source formart "3.0 (quilt)" and using debhelper 8
19:24:44 <gregoa> the closses will add the bug number to the change log
19:25:11 <gregoa> and "--cpan Template::Plugin::Gravatar" says: grab the Template::Plugin::Gravatar tarball from the CPAN, unpack it and make-me-a-package
19:25:50 <gregoa> in my right terminal I see that dh-make-perl has finished its work. what's the status for others?
19:26:01 <ruipb> done
19:26:06 <gregoa> \o/
19:26:14 <MadameZou> (and it's so cool!)
19:26:20 <MadameZou> gregoa: we have a question
19:26:26 <gregoa> any problems? ah yes
19:26:40 <MadameZou> < zobel> question: is dh-make-perl is scaning for already existing RFP and/or packages in sid/NEW?
19:27:14 <gregoa> zobel: good question. I _think_ so but I'm not 100% sure
19:27:20 <gregoa> dam: ^^ do you know?
19:27:51 <dam> er, I think too. will check and answer in a minute?
19:27:59 <gregoa> dam: perfect, thanks!
19:28:05 <MadameZou> in the meanwhile we have another question :)
19:28:14 <gregoa> (have I mentioned the advantages of teamwork? :))
19:28:16 <MadameZou> < zobel> question: is there a difference between /home/gregoa/.dh-make-perl/rules.dh7.tiny and the default one?
19:28:46 <gregoa> zobel: it's a symlink and most probably completley unnedded, and cruft from old times :)
19:29:08 <zobel> ah. thx. i was just wondering about that file.
19:29:24 <gregoa> (a symlink to the version in svn but that's the same as the one in the package)
19:29:27 <gregoa> good catch :)
19:29:39 <gregoa> alright. shall we look at the files?
19:30:03 <zobel> no more questions open
19:30:07 <gregoa> so now we have a Template-Plugin-Gravatar-0.05 directory with upstream code and the created debian dir
19:30:10 <gregoa> zobel: thanks
19:30:39 <gregoa> in the debian dir we have what we would expect there :) I'll quickly go through them:
19:31:08 <gregoa> debian/watch contains our default regexp for downloading upstream tarballs from the CPAN. no need to change
19:31:32 <gregoa> debian/source/format is 3.0 (quilt) as we told dh-make-perl. fine
19:32:01 <gregoa> debian/rules is the short-style 3-line dh variant we always use. no need to change something, at least now
19:32:26 <gregoa> debian/libtemplate-plugin-gravatar-perl.docs contains the README which dh-make-perl detected.
19:32:31 <gregoa> let's read it
19:32:57 <gregoa> it's almost empty, no value for users, so we rm debian/libtemplate-plugin-gravatar-perl.docs
19:33:25 <gregoa> debian/compat - debhelper compatibility level 8, as we told dh-make-perl. good.
19:33:39 <gregoa> that leaves us with debian/copyright and debian/control. let's start with copyright.
19:34:00 <gregoa> here we see some boilerplate at the top
19:34:16 <gregoa> then we have to check if the rest is accurate.
19:34:32 <gregoa> we can use `licensecheck' from devscripts or a simple grep:
19:35:12 <gregoa> "grep -ir copyright ." show info in ./lib/Template/Plugin/Gravatar.pm and inc/Module/*
19:35:39 <gregoa> so we inspect ./lib/Template/Plugin/Gravatar.pm closer and find "Copyright 2007, Ashley Pond V." and "same terms as perl"
19:36:08 <gregoa> compared to our d/copyright the year is missing but the rest is fine
19:36:18 <gregoa> and then we need to add info about inc/M/I
19:36:54 <gregoa> since Module::Install fragments are included often we can copy the relevant lines from http://pkg-perl.alioth.debian.org/copyright.html#module__install
19:36:56 <mxey> gregoa: you might want to nuke that dot at the end of the first copyright line
19:37:05 <gregoa> (perl hackers and packagers are lazy)
19:37:09 <gregoa> mxey: right, thanks!
19:37:49 <gregoa> so this should be fine
19:38:10 <gregoa> http://paste.debian.net/121622/
19:38:20 <gregoa> ok, on to debian/control
19:39:07 <gregoa> we find a section for the source and a section for the binary package, both filled with info from dh-maker-perl as we told it or as it found in the upstream source
19:39:24 <gregoa> again debhelper 8, correct maintainer and Uploaders, URLs, ...
19:39:39 <gregoa> the Standards-Version is wrong, the current one is 3.9.2
19:39:45 <gregoa> (we should update dh-make-perl :))
19:40:14 <gregoa> how about libtemplate-perl (>= 2)? let's check with rmadison which versions we have in the archive
19:40:41 <gregoa> ok, even etch has 2.14-1 so we can remove the "(>= 2)"
19:41:04 <gregoa> in Build-Depends-Indep and in Depends
19:41:23 <gregoa> we can double-check in META.yml and Makefile.PL
19:41:42 <gregoa> should be ok :)
19:41:53 <gregoa> the last thing before we can build the package is the description
19:42:00 <gregoa> we can remove the boilerplate at the end
19:42:33 <gregoa> and then short and long description really need some work :)
19:42:49 <MadameZou> gregoa: could you please go slower on the terminal? I can't follow irssi and your terminal very well :)
19:43:14 <gregoa> MadameZou: I have the same problem with typing in two terminals :)
19:43:17 <gregoa> ok i try
19:43:25 <MadameZou> thanks :D
19:43:41 <ruipb> MadameZou: thanks , I was having same problem :P
19:44:38 <gregoa> ok, I stop typing in debian/control and wait for comments/proposals for the short and long descriptions :)
19:45:13 <MadameZou> uhm, I think you have lost the "T" of Template
19:45:29 <gregoa> where?
19:45:46 <pabs> bemplate::...
19:45:47 <MadameZou> where you have the cursor, the last line first char
19:46:00 <ruipb> 4th line under description
19:46:27 <gregoa> I see it here. will pastebin
19:46:33 <gregoa> http://paste.debian.net/121626/
19:46:48 <gregoa> (btw: this nopaste is also perl: libapp-nopaste-perl :))
19:47:13 <ruipb> :)
19:47:29 <gregoa> is there still an error I'm missing?
19:47:38 <MadameZou> yes, you're right: you have it
19:47:39 <dam> in the pause, here's an answer to zobel's question: (1) dh-make-perl warns if the prospective package is already known to APT. (2) it adds Closes: #xxxxx if the package is found in WNPP, but it seems it doesn't warn you that you need to take the ITP and such (iow, it is just an automatic --closes option)
19:47:50 <MadameZou> probably some refreshing problem on my terminal..?
19:47:59 <ruipb> true
19:48:02 <gregoa> dam: thanks!
19:48:07 <gregoa> ok, then let's keep it
19:48:12 <MadameZou> gregoa: some questions here
19:48:19 <gregoa> go!
19:48:44 <MadameZou> < pabs> question: how is the relationship between pkg-perl and upstream (CPAN/etc)?
19:49:19 <gregoa> pabs: "good", or do you have anything specific in mind?
19:49:40 <MadameZou> < pabs> question: what QA tools are there for CPAN authors and Debian folks packaging and thus doing QA on Perl modules?
19:49:50 <zobel> dam: thx
19:49:55 <pau4o> MadameZou: I have refreshing problem in my terminal too
19:50:09 <pabs> gregoa: are they happy with modules being redistributed in Debian?
19:50:27 <dam> it is fantastic when CPAN authors come to #debian-perl and ask "Hey, how can I make your job easier?"
19:50:30 * pabs thinking of the Ruby situation there
19:51:07 <gregoa> pabs: for CPAN authors there are not many debian-specific tools, there's something on our website for them to search, there's some kwalitee test, and there are lots of ideas from improving :)
19:51:29 <gregoa> pabs: we also have CPAN authors joining the team, and usually the cooperation is very cordial
19:52:14 <gregoa> pabs: also the perl packagagers (niko and dom) also seek input from perl5porters etc. before changes and receive very considerate mails
19:52:44 <gregoa> the CPAN community is really one of the nice things in doing this work
19:52:53 <gregoa> ok, shall we go on with our package?
19:53:13 <gregoa> the last file is debian/changelog, and we can also leave it.
19:53:14 <ruipb> y
19:53:19 <gregoa> now, let's build it
19:53:36 <zobel> nack. unstable!
19:53:43 <gregoa> usually I build everything in cowbuilder but that's to complicated for now
19:53:51 <zobel> we don't like UNRELEASED! :)
19:53:56 <gregoa> zobel: the UNRELEASED is un purpose for now
19:54:02 <zobel> okay
19:54:15 <fsfs> gregoa: pointer for cowbuilder?
19:54:21 <gregoa> zobel: I leave it before injecting into svn, then look again, and only set it to unstable when uploading
19:54:33 <gregoa> zobel: otherwise PET would show it as ready for upload
19:54:34 <zobel> apt-zobel@kvasir:~% apt-cache search cowbuilder
19:54:34 <zobel> cowbuilder - pbuilder running on cowdancer
19:54:40 <zobel> fsfs: ^
19:54:51 <gregoa> fsfs: pbuilder has a good documentation in the package and on the web
19:55:08 <gregoa> fsfs: and there's something in the ubuntu wiki that describes it step by step
19:55:14 <gregoa> (not sure about the debian wiki)
19:55:17 <pau4o> gregoa: can you `clear` your terminal (I see lot of mixed lines here)
19:55:24 <gregoa> pau4o: better?
19:55:33 <pau4o> yes
19:55:42 <gregoa> ok, so no cowubuiler but plain dpkg-buildpackage
19:55:55 <sugar> hello all
19:56:05 <sugar> i'm late
19:56:08 <gregoa> oh, what we need is a tarball. we can search it somewhere under ~/.cpan or just use uscan
19:56:20 <gregoa> uscan -verbose
19:56:25 <gregoa> not enough :)
19:56:32 <gregoa> uscan -verbose -force
19:56:37 <gregoa> now we have it in ../
19:57:01 <gregoa> ok: dpkg-buildpackage -uc -us
19:57:20 <mxey> termcasting is really quite cool.
19:57:25 <gregoa> if you get warnings about missing packages you need to install them (probably libtemplate-perl)
19:57:51 <gregoa> mxey: I'm glad you like it :) # never used it before
19:58:05 <MadameZou> (sugar: telnet termcast.org and choose A day with debian perl team)
19:58:19 <gregoa> ok, so I have a package now in ../
19:58:22 <gregoa> how about others?
19:58:45 <zobel> i guess we should fix problems found by tests? :)
19:58:48 <darkestkhan> I have package too
19:58:55 <TetsuyO> I'm installing libtemplate-perl, and then I think I'll have a package,too :-)
19:59:15 <gregoa> zobel: we should, but I don't have any. what do you get?
19:59:43 * TetsuyO has a package
19:59:55 <zobel> gregoa: i don't have any, but during the last BSP, i had a package to NMU which had quite a lot errors in tests/
20:00:15 <zobel> not maintained by the perl group
20:00:18 <gregoa> zobel: ah ok.
20:00:47 * gregoa just noticed to missing build dependencies for t/pod* but we keep that for later)
20:01:07 <gregoa> good. pabs already asked about QA - so as usual in debian we will run lintian against the .changes
20:01:25 <gregoa> lintian -i -I --show-overrides --pedantic --color auto ../libtemplate-plugin-gravatar-perl_0.05-1_i386.changes
20:01:36 <gregoa> (these are my preferred lintian options)
20:01:51 <gregoa> no output here! yeah!
20:02:00 <MadameZou> \o/
20:02:07 <gregoa> (maybe I should have mentioned lintian earlier *cough*)
20:02:44 <gregoa> good. so far the shiny new package is only on several hard disks in several hemispheres and timezones, but it belongs in our svn repository
20:03:13 <gregoa> here I'm using svn-inject, and I'm afraid you can only watch the termcast (and the commits in #debian-perl)
20:04:11 <gregoa> svn-inject is in the svn-buildpackage package, together with svn-buildpackage and svn-upgrade
20:04:32 <gregoa> -inject: first time, -upgrade: new upstream versions, -buildpackage: build from svn checkout
20:04:48 <gregoa> and done
20:04:59 <gregoa> now I will change into my "normal" pkg-perl repo
20:05:11 <gregoa> and get the package again
20:05:45 <gregoa> for those not having our trunk checkout it yet: don't do it now :)
20:05:52 <gregoa> but you can "svn co svn://svn.debian.org/pkg-perl/trunk/libtemplate-plugin-gravatar-perl/"
20:06:38 <gregoa> ok, looking at the clock I see that we are already a bit late.
20:06:49 <gregoa> actually I wanted to finish + upload this package
20:07:02 <gregoa> then show you how to upgrade another package and forward a patch upstream
20:07:07 <gregoa> and then have a discussion
20:07:26 <gregoa> but I guess this will last until tomorrow (CEST) :))
20:07:43 <MadameZou> we could easily have a second-part session :)
20:07:43 <gregoa> MadameZou, everybody: how's the energy, what are the interests, how shall we proceed?
20:07:52 <fsfs> gregoa: gogogo!
20:08:05 <gregoa> :)
20:08:16 <ruipb> I'm awake , go :)
20:08:23 * MadameZou also is for going at least for another hour
20:08:28 <zobel> gregoa: go ahead
20:08:38 <MadameZou> But what thinks people in other timezones?
20:08:41 <pau4o> $one_hour++
20:08:43 * TetsuyO it's ok also for me gregoa
20:09:08 <darkestkhan> oing on for next few hours (evn to morning (CEST))
20:09:20 * darkestkhan has no problems with g
20:09:52 <gregoa> ok, thanks :)
20:10:06 <MadameZou> \o/
20:10:15 <gregoa> maybe we leave this package at this state now - it's almost done anyway :)
20:10:36 * msantana +1
20:10:48 <gregoa> if you want to join the team that's what you do: look for an RFP bug or file an ITP bug, create a package and svn-inject it
20:11:19 <gregoa> of course then a final check is needed, building in a chroot, and then, as zobel noticed, setting the distribution from UNRELEASED to unstable
20:11:39 <gregoa> and it will show up on PET, some DD will see it in the "ready for upload" section, will review it and either upload it
20:11:56 <gregoa> or add TODO items into debian/changelog and set it back to UNRELEASED
20:12:09 <MadameZou> gregoa: < fsfs> is it possible to see the termcast again later, is it logged?
20:12:18 <gregoa> that's our workflow, besides mail (debian-perl@lists.debian.org) and IRC, of course
20:12:50 <gregoa> fsfs: I have no idea, but I don't think so. I'm only using this termcast.org service, maybe ther's something on their website?
20:13:02 <gregoa> good
20:13:26 <gregoa> actually creating new packages is not so "everday work" - after all we already have enough packages :)
20:13:42 <gregoa> really everyday is upgrading to new upstream releases
20:13:58 <gregoa> I guess we have ~5 new upstream vesions per day
20:14:09 <gregoa> so let's take one of them: libpoe-component-client-keepalive-perl
20:14:30 <gregoa> if you want to follow along I suggest that you check it out from svn:
20:14:39 <gregoa> svn co svn://svn.debian.org/pkg-perl/trunk/libpoe-component-client-keepalive-perl/
20:14:54 <gregoa> fsfs: but the IRC log will be available afterwards
20:15:01 <darkestkhan> one question: how do you look up for new upstream versions?
20:15:11 <gregoa> darkestkhan: PET again :)
20:15:40 <gregoa> darkestkhan: http://pkg-perl.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/pet.cgi -> "Newer upstream release vailable"
20:15:54 <gregoa> it uses the info from debian/watch in svn
20:16:03 <gregoa> but we will check manually now with uscan:
20:16:13 <gregoa> uscan -verbose -report
20:16:31 <gregoa> ok, uscan agrees with PET.
20:17:14 <gregoa> now I use svn-upgrade, which has a nice --uscan switch. it grabs the tarball, throws the contents into svn (/branches/upstream/package) and merges it into trunk
20:18:01 <gregoa> (again, KGB announces the commits in #debian-perl)
20:18:06 <gregoa> and finished
20:18:29 <gregoa> so now I have in my working copy the new version (not yet on the server)
20:18:39 <gregoa> and I will check the changes with svn diff
20:19:15 <gregoa> right at the top we see new requirements. I copy them to a "scratchpad"
20:19:57 <gregoa> ok, the rest of the small diff looks innocent
20:20:13 <gregoa> so I can commit it to trunk
20:20:37 <gregoa> either "svn ci -m 'some message'" or the next nice tool: debcommit (also in devscripts, so not perl specific)
20:20:53 <gregoa> debcommit commits and takes the diff of debian/changelog as the commit message
20:20:54 <pau4o> gregoa: please `clear` again
20:21:22 <gregoa> pau4o: done, hope it works
20:21:47 <gregoa> all you have checked out the package from svn before can now "svn up" and have again the same files as I have here
20:21:49 <pau4o> yep, I think editor that you use messes with termcasting
20:22:14 <gregoa> pau4o: yup, sounds reasonable. unfortunately sometimes I need to edit something despite all the tools :)
20:22:29 <gregoa> ok, so we can again look around in the package
20:23:20 <gregoa> doesn't look bad (I've chosen a package that was upgraded not long ago :))
20:23:34 <gregoa> we noticed that some requirements changed, so let's look into d/control
20:24:25 <gregoa> and adjust them: libpoe-perl (>= 2:1.2990) -> 2:1.3110
20:24:39 <gregoa> and for libpoe-component-resolver-perl we need rmadison again
20:25:06 <zobel> rmadison does run dak ls on ries via cgi
20:25:25 <zobel> "dak ls $package-name"
20:25:27 <gregoa> and - bummer - upstream wants 0.912 but debian only has 0.911. so need to update this package before
20:25:36 <gregoa> zobel: isn't it using UDD in the meantime?
20:25:45 <zobel> might be
20:25:46 <gregoa> ok, I change the version in d/control anyway
20:26:15 <gregoa> or better: I add it as (>= 0.912)
20:26:21 <gregoa> then the next PET trick:
20:27:04 <gregoa> I open d/changelog and add "WAITS-FOR: libpoe-component-resolver-perl 0.912"
20:27:17 <gregoa> that way PET puts into it's own section
20:27:23 <gregoa> and a changelog entry would also be nice
20:27:32 <zobel> 'debian' => "http://qa.debian.org/madison.php",
20:27:53 <gregoa> (I thought that was a redirect to some udd.cgi now)
20:28:47 <gregoa> ok, summary: versions in d/control updated, changelog entry and WAITS-FOR in d/changelog for PET
20:28:52 <gregoa> so: commit again
20:29:16 <gregoa> and those of you who have it can "svn up" again
20:29:31 <gregoa> and we can't finish this package now because of the dependency
20:29:42 <gregoa> but I chose it for another reason anyway: there's a patch!
20:29:57 <gregoa> in debian/patches/ we have fix-pod-whatis.patch
20:29:58 <zobel> gregoa: you are right, the php redirects to a cgi, which uses UDD
20:30:12 <gregoa> zobel: ok, thanks for checking!
20:30:36 <gregoa> if we look at the patch: it fixes a problem in the POD (embedded documentation)
20:31:01 <gregoa> it has nice headers according to DEP3
20:31:03 <gregoa> #link http://dep.debian.net/deps/dep3/
20:31:14 <gregoa> and what do we see there: "Forwarded: no"
20:31:27 <gregoa> not good. we should forward it upstream of course!
20:31:36 <gregoa> and that's what I wanted to show actually :)
20:32:02 <gregoa> CPAN modules (almost always) use the CPAN request tracker, so we can just go their.
20:32:15 <gregoa> we can use the URL from debian/control or debian/watcg (it#s the same)
20:32:27 <gregoa> http://search.cpan.org/dist/POE-Component-Client-Keepalive/
20:32:49 <gregoa> and there we have a link "view/report bugs"
20:32:58 <gregoa> https://rt.cpan.org/Public/Dist/Display.html?Name=POE-Component-Client-Keepalive
20:33:20 <gregoa> check: is our patch there or a similar bug report? no
20:33:27 <gregoa> so we need to file one
20:33:48 <gregoa> we can click on "report a new bug"
20:33:53 <gregoa> https://rt.cpan.org/Public/Bug/Report.html?Queue=POE-Component-Client-Keepalive
20:34:04 <MadameZou> #idea: update rmadison to use the cgi directly (zobel)
20:34:15 <gregoa> which explains the procedure: either log in or use email
20:34:36 <gregoa> I will now just write an email to Component-Client-Keepalive [at] rt.cpan.org
20:35:19 <carnil> gregoa: we want to refresh the patch first?
20:35:37 <gregoa> carnil: just my idea when I started typing the mail :)
20:35:39 <gregoa> carnil: grazie!
20:35:57 <gregoa> ok, let's see if it applies
20:36:01 <gregoa> with quilt:
20:36:16 <gregoa> quilt push
20:36:21 <gregoa> WAHH it fails
20:36:31 <gregoa> do I have to fix a patch now? that was not planned :)
20:37:25 <gregoa> ok, done :)
20:37:49 <gregoa> (sorry this was a bit quick. quilt would also be a nice topic for a tutorial)
20:38:17 <gregoa> svn diff --> the patch looks the same except for the version. good. nothing broken. back to the mail.
20:38:42 <MadameZou> eheh
20:38:54 <gregoa> ok, mail sent
20:38:55 <MadameZou> LOL @ remember your attachments!
20:39:02 <gregoa> CPAN RT is very quick so ...
20:39:43 <gregoa> not today. it should show up on https://rt.cpan.org/Public/Dist/Display.html?Name=POE-Component-Client-Keepalive
20:40:28 <gregoa> ok, what's missing now is: update the headers in the patch
20:40:29 <zobel> vorfuehreffekt?! :)
20:40:39 <gregoa> zobel: ganz genau :)
20:40:48 <gregoa> usually new reports are really there after the next refresh
20:41:27 <gregoa> oh, mail bounce, sec
20:42:02 <gregoa> hm, seems I got the address wrong
20:42:26 <gregoa> should have been bug-POE-Component-Client-Keepalive [at] rt.cpan.org.
20:43:04 <gregoa> ok, bounced again, maybe I have more luck now :)
20:43:13 <gregoa> (that's what you get for live action :))
20:43:32 <carnil> gregoa: it's there now
20:43:33 <gregoa> now it's there: https://rt.cpan.org/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=69235
20:44:24 <gregoa> good, patch header updated, now: changelog and commit
20:44:43 <gregoa> next tool: dch (debchange) for editing the changelog, again in devscripts
20:45:04 <gregoa> last check with svn diff
20:45:19 <gregoa> and debcommit again
20:45:23 <dam> Forwarded: no?
20:45:46 <gregoa> dam: thanks! oops.
20:46:29 <gregoa> that's how interesting commit messages are created :)
20:46:39 <gregoa> ok, I think we can leave this package now.
20:46:52 <gregoa> we've seen svn-upgrade, a few changes, and the forwarding of a patch
20:47:00 <MadameZou> gregoa: question for you
20:47:03 <gregoa> now it waits for this other libpoe-something dependency
20:47:10 <gregoa> MadameZou: yes please
20:47:10 <MadameZou> < zobel> question: gregoa, can you tell us what to take care of
20:47:10 <MadameZou> when moving a package from single maintainer to
20:47:10 <MadameZou> pkg-perl?
20:47:13 <MadameZou> ooops
20:47:55 <zobel> gregoa: you may answer that at the end of your lecture.
20:48:01 <gregoa> zobel: follow the written and unwritten rules; the first part is easy: http://pkg-perl.alioth.debian.org/policy.html
20:48:24 <gregoa> zobel: the second part is more "look at other packages" or "ask for a review"
20:48:52 <gregoa> zobel: we also have a takeover script in svn (in the scripts directory) that changes maintainer, svn-injects the package etc.
20:49:26 <gregoa> zobel, MadameZou: I think we can open the Q&A part; at least it's late enough and I'm starting to make too many mistakes in packaging :)
20:50:11 <zobel> gregoa: feel free to hijack my -perl packages :)
20:50:24 <MadameZou> gregoa: ok
20:50:41 <gregoa> zobel: :) - if you really want to get rid of them please send a short mail to debian-perl@ldo so it doesn't get lost
20:51:04 <MadameZou> < pabs> question: in other language communities, rapidly changing APIs are the norm, does the CPAN/Perl community have a similar issue?
20:51:57 * dam was going to echo that too :)
20:52:04 <gregoa> pabs: I'd say no. major upgrades of perl itself cause some work, but the perl 5.12 upgrade some weeks ago went rather smooth despite ~400 binNMUs
20:52:54 <gregoa> pabs: sometimes an important packages changes an interface or has another incompatible change, but that's rare (and usually more an upstream issue than ours)
20:53:05 <dam> [B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D
20:53:24 <dam> oops, braindead parts here
20:53:29 <pabs> gregoa: followup, are there any tools to watch for API compat issues? like abi-compliance-checker for C libraries?
20:53:34 <dam> I think he meant Foo::Bar changing itsAPI with each release
20:53:41 <pabs> yup
20:54:00 <gregoa> no, I can't remember such nasty modules. dam? carnil?
20:54:25 <zobel> gregoa: done :)
20:54:33 <gregoa> and I don't know a checker for that. maybe someone else?
20:54:38 <gregoa> zobel: danke!
20:54:48 <dam> er, there was a package I ITP-ed recently which failed to build with the current version of one of its dependencies. Both were in 0.0x versions, though
20:55:19 <gregoa> ack, that's not "changing in each release" :)
20:55:38 <MadameZou> <@MadameZou> QUESTION (for the end of the session): Where are the sources of PET2? How it works?
20:55:45 <dam> yes. I was really surprised too :)
20:55:58 * MadameZou is quite intrigued by PET2
20:56:06 <dam> darkest magic :)
20:56:09 <gregoa> PET and PET2 sources are also on alioth, in a separate project
20:56:14 <MadameZou> dam LOL
20:56:14 <gregoa> let me get some URLs
20:56:36 <gregoa> PET is in svn: svn+ssh://svn.debian.org/svn/pet/trunk
20:56:48 <zobel> #link!
20:56:53 <pau4o> gregoa: are there recommended tools for packaging with GIT instead of SVN
20:56:58 <gregoa> PET2 is in git: git+ssh://git.debian.org/git/pet/pet2.git
20:57:09 <MadameZou> (gregoa: thanks)
20:57:24 <gregoa> zobel: right :) maybe to the project page on alioth
20:57:53 <gregoa> pau4o: yes, there's git-buildpackage (and also git-dpm IIRC) that have a similar function like svn-buildpackage
20:58:14 <gregoa> #link http://pet.alioth.debian.org/ (no pet2 there)
20:58:14 <ruipb> ebian
20:58:19 <ruipb> sry
20:58:22 <gregoa> :)
20:58:42 <dam> pau4o:  the development version of dh-make-perl has some goodies for Git-lovers
20:58:52 <gregoa> #link https://alioth.debian.org/projects/pet
20:59:12 <gregoa> and if someone wants to ask about svn and git in pkg-perl, I let dam answer :)
20:59:35 <gregoa> other questions?
20:59:47 <gregoa> anyone wants to join the team right now? :)
20:59:53 <MadameZou> \o/
20:59:58 <pau4o> dam: glad to hear this
21:00:13 <zobel> gregoa: thx for that lecture.
21:00:39 <gregoa> if someone is interested: take a look at http://wiki.debian.org/Teams/DebianPerlGroup/Welcome (basically you need an alioth account and a short mail to debian-perl@lists.debian.org)
21:00:43 <zobel> it showed me, to move my packages to the pkg-perl group... :)
21:00:44 <fabreg_> gregoa, thank you so much :)
21:00:45 <gregoa> zobel: thanks to you
21:00:59 <gregoa> heh :)
21:01:02 <TetsuyO> gregoa: thank you for this session :)
21:01:08 <MadameZou> gregoa: thanks for this lesson, and I hope to have another one live :)
21:01:21 <ruipb> thanks gregoa , its was really nice
21:01:24 <fsfs> gregoa: thanks a lot!
21:01:25 <gregoa> MadameZou: me too, maybe with another speaker :)
21:01:38 <gregoa> ruipb, fsfs: thanks, I'm glad you liked it
21:01:38 <pau4o> gregoa: we wait for next session
21:01:43 <gregoa> :)
21:01:46 <pau4o> :-)
21:01:47 <MadameZou> and thanks everyone :)
21:02:00 <ruipb> thanks MadameZou :)
21:02:09 <MadameZou> btw, gregoa that termcast thing it was really cool
21:02:44 <gregoa> MadameZou: when I read about it I know I had to package it before today :) (and thanks to the super-fast ftp-masters it's already in the archive)
21:02:56 * zobel hugs MadameZou for organizing such good sessions.
21:03:01 <gregoa> I guess I can stop the termcast now ..
21:03:08 * MadameZou blushes :D
21:03:18 <ruipb> lol gregoa
21:03:23 <gregoa> MadameZou: thanks for organizining, inviting me and moderating the session
21:03:29 <ruipb> you can stop it yes
21:03:30 <MadameZou> #endmeeting