20:28:47 <moray_> #startmeeting
20:28:47 <MeetBot> Meeting started Sat Feb 13 20:28:47 2021 UTC.  The chair is moray_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:28:47 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
20:29:05 <moray_> I don't have much to say, but am happy to hear news from others...
20:29:15 * valhalla waves
20:29:21 <nattie> not much here - i encouraged one person to sign up for the dutch events list
20:29:25 * utkarsh2102 waves
20:30:05 * alexm waves
20:30:21 <tzafrir_laptop> hi
20:31:12 <moray_> #topic Follow-up on previous actions
20:31:50 <valhalla> no news on the mailing list front
20:31:50 <moray_> nattie: What's the status of your trawl through the groups list?  Is it still ongoing, or to be considered done?
20:32:05 <nattie> moray_: it's slightly on hiatus, but i should get back on that
20:32:55 <moray_> #info nattie's still working through the list of groups checking what's been active
20:33:17 <moray_> valhalla: anything people can help with, or just waiting for a response?
20:33:28 <valhalla> waiting for a response
20:33:41 <valhalla> I think that more comments on the mailing list request can help
20:33:46 * nattie should also get on with drafting one or more messages to send to groups
20:35:46 <moray_> nattie: That would be good.  The priority is finding about potentially active groups, but I'd also be interested if we can get any useful comments about groups that were active at some point previously (for what they found worked, what would help, etc.)
20:36:10 <nattie> sure
20:36:26 <moray_> #info The mailing list request is still pending.  Additional supporting comments on the request might help.
20:37:02 <moray_> #info nattie intends to draft messages to send to groups
20:37:35 <nattie> anyone who wants in on the hot message-drafting action, talk to me
20:37:59 <nattie> #info talk to nattie if you want to join in the message-drafting effort
20:38:27 <moray_> nattie: I'm happy to help, at least to comment on a draft if it's helpful
20:38:53 <nattie> sure
20:38:55 <moray_> nattie, valhalla: Is the alias already working, or also still pending?
20:39:19 <valhalla> I only requested the list, I don't remember who requested the alias
20:39:22 <nattie> i don't think there's any progress on the alias, since we never quite determined who ought to be on it
20:39:25 <valhalla> (did anybody?)
20:39:30 <moray_> ok
20:40:03 <moray_> In that case maybe it makes sense to try to get the list first
20:40:34 <nattie> who's interested in being on the alias?
20:40:46 <nattie> should we address that in AOB?
20:41:21 <moray_> sure, since we should get to AOB in a moment anyway
20:41:53 <moray_> Any other action updates?
20:42:01 <valhalla> not from me
20:42:04 <moray_> Or general thoughts with respect to previously agreed actions?
20:42:51 <nattie> no, i think we're still kind of on semi-hiatus
20:43:01 <moray_> a bit like the world in general just now :)
20:43:05 <nattie> or at least not being gigantically active
20:43:49 <moray_> #topic Meeting times
20:43:58 <moray_> Full agenda item was "changing the time of the meeting with a survey every time, to allow people from different timezones to attend"
20:44:06 <moray_> I think for this one we did have a survey
20:44:26 <valhalla> yes, I was suggesting to have a survey to change the time every month
20:44:33 <moray_> but possibly the thought behind the agenda item should actually imply intentionally varying the time?
20:44:40 <alexm> seems fair
20:44:41 <moray_> if we want to be more timezone-inclusive?
20:44:46 <valhalla> so that people who are interested can attend at least sometime
20:45:02 <valhalla> since I'd expect a local team groups to have people from wildly different timezones
20:45:07 <moray_> if we just repeatedly survey we might get similar answers due to euro-dominance
20:45:28 <valhalla> that's true
20:46:01 <valhalla> any other methods to vary the time?
20:46:09 <moray_> though I'm not sure I'll manage the 4 a.m. meeting (unless the baby happens to wake me at the right time...)
20:46:33 <alexm> in the perl team we had rotating times between NA and EU for some time
20:46:57 <moray_> valhalla: do you know particular people we are excluding, who we should especially bear in mind if trying another time?
20:47:08 <moray_> I don't remember the survey options/answers
20:47:10 <alexm> it didn't work because most of us are EU-centric anyway, but it could work better for localgroups
20:47:25 <valhalla> there was a request in the channel, but I'm out of backlog
20:47:43 <alexm> moray_: people from India
20:47:43 <valhalla> I think from India (this meeting was late in the night for them)
20:48:04 <moray_> right -- India will imply a different answer from US
20:48:06 <utkarsh2102> 2:20 AM here \o/
20:48:16 * utkarsh2102 is from India
20:49:13 <alexm> utkarsh2102: what's the TZ there?
20:49:20 <nattie> UTC +5:30
20:49:25 <utkarsh2102> correct
20:49:39 <nattie> the half hour is a bonus to make it spicier
20:49:39 <utkarsh2102> nattie knows everything :)
20:49:50 <utkarsh2102> heh
20:50:05 <nattie> utkarsh2102: nattie just knows timezones because of far-flung friends :)
20:50:11 <adria> 13:00 UTC is the time zone we use at work with people from EU, NA and IN… maybe that may work too
20:50:15 <moray_> so maybe we should try a survey where the available choices are better for India?
20:50:28 <nattie> we've tried that
20:50:59 <nattie> but i'm happy to alternate between something India-compatible and something later in the EU evening (which should hopefully also work for the .br crew)
20:51:25 <moray_> yeah, tricky if we get people in US west coast, for example
20:51:35 <alexm> nattie: did you try that (13:00UTC) on Saturdays?
20:51:39 <utkarsh2102> ruby team had meetings at 1530 UTC
20:51:50 <utkarsh2102> which worked for Brazil, US, India, Europe
20:51:55 <utkarsh2102> I guess
20:52:03 <nattie> alexm: haven't tried that, but let's stick that into the next survey and see if people like it?
20:52:23 <utkarsh2102> s/1530/1630/g
20:52:43 <moray_> does someone volunteer to do a new survey?
20:54:17 <alexm> in summary: monthly meetings, any day of the week and any of the 24h of a day; is that it?
20:54:28 <nattie> normally it would be larjona, but she's not really available at the moment
20:55:07 <moray_> alexm: I think for now we didn't agree any more constraints, except that for the next meeting we would like to bias the choices in favour of India
20:55:42 <nattie> we could provisionally schedule for 13 march at 13:00 UTC?
20:56:00 <alexm> works for me
20:56:10 <moray_> sounds worth trying
20:56:24 <moray_> any objections?
20:56:30 <nattie> (mostly because i can't seem to get to surveys.debian.net at the moment)
20:56:44 <valhalla> no objection from me
20:57:18 <utkarsh2102> nattie: I have access to surveys.d.net in case something needs to happen there
20:57:34 <utkarsh2102> oh, I see what you mean :)
20:57:52 <nattie> ah, it's not just my connection then!
20:57:54 <utkarsh2102> hopefully the server didn't burn
20:58:12 <nattie> sure it'll be back sometime
20:58:12 <moray_> utkarsh2102: would the proposed time (13 March, 13:00 UTC) work for you?
20:58:18 <alexm> utkarsh2102: does 13:00 UTC work for you too? 7:30 seems a bit early to me ;)
20:58:44 <utkarsh2102> of course, 1300 UTC would be ideal for those who are missing out
20:58:57 <nattie> alexm: other direction, that would be 18:30 for the .in crew
20:59:00 <adria> I don't think I have access to surveys.d.n, but I can either align with larjona or create a survey somewhere else. Would that work?
20:59:02 <utkarsh2102> 1300 UTC would mean 1830 here
20:59:35 <alexm> oh, my bad, sorry
20:59:39 <nattie> no worries
20:59:43 <moray_> well, let's assume that we try that time for the next meeting then, if no one is objecting
21:00:08 <alexm> larjona was using storm.debian.net
21:00:09 <nattie> my suggestion in the longer run would be to alternate between 13:00 and 20:30 UTC to cover a wideish gamut
21:00:46 <alexm> at least last survey for the meeting was there, AFAICR
21:00:55 <moray_> #agreed Next meeting provisionally scheduled for Saturday 13 March, 13:00 UTC
21:02:10 <moray_> #agreed For subsequent meetings, we should try to allow for participation from a range of timezones (e.g., minimally, alternate 13:00 and 20:30 UTC)
21:02:36 <moray_> #topic Any Other Business
21:02:56 <moray_> We have one item raised already: membership of a future localgroups email alias
21:03:11 <valhalla> do we know what the email alias will be for?
21:03:29 <nattie> i think that's for "if you want to request concrete assistance/funding, write here"
21:03:48 <nattie> for stuff that requires discretion (because of personal details or whatnot)
21:03:58 <moray_> yeah
21:04:19 <valhalla> ok, so it will have to be “the people who take care of letting assistance/funding reach the group, right?
21:04:22 <moray_> probably nicer to encourage people to use a list, but especially where money is involved, some people will be shy about asking in public
21:04:40 <moray_> (and requests might involve personal data)
21:04:56 <nattie> we could call it something like localgroups-admin
21:04:56 <valhalla> (definitely, at the very least shipping addresses)
21:05:42 <nattie> or something that makes it clear it's for not-public stuff
21:05:51 <moray_> good idea
21:07:01 <alexm> would it make sense that it was a private mailing list instead of an alias? to keep an archive, for instance
21:07:26 <nattie> those exist in debian?
21:07:31 <valhalla> is it a good idea to keep an archive of personal data?
21:08:00 <alexm> even an RT queue could make sense if the team is going to track each request separately
21:08:07 <moray_> valhalla: true, personal data shouldn't be kept longer than it is needed for a specific purpose
21:08:11 <nattie> perhaps it should be done the way the debconf bursaries team does it
21:08:28 <nattie> i'm not sure what that entails exactly, but they deal with a lot of data that requires discretion
21:08:39 <alexm> that's a good point, matching other teams process should be fine
21:09:01 <valhalla> good idea (copying the debconf bursaries team if appropriate)
21:09:54 * utkarsh2102 is a part of bursaries team; can help here if need be
21:10:00 <moray_> I think nattie and valhalla volunteered so far?  I would also be happy to be involved
21:10:34 <nattie> utkarsh2102: ooh cool, if you could let us know the setup there, that would be grand
21:10:35 <moray_> though I realise this is hypothetical until we work out the details of what we need
21:10:38 <nattie> yeah
21:10:45 <valhalla> should we insist that requests are made on the public mailing list, to keep a public record, and only shipping / payment details go on the alias?
21:10:55 <nattie> valhalla: +1
21:11:04 <moray_> if we can, that sounds sensible
21:11:33 <utkarsh2102> nattie: sure, I'll type it out in a while
21:11:35 <nattie> list for requests and general discussion, alias for specific followup on requests
21:11:46 <utkarsh2102> or maybe tomorrow morning (IST)
21:11:58 <nattie> utkarsh2102: given the general speed of things here, there's no hurry :)
21:12:00 <moray_> though I can imagine someone who is starting a new small local group and wants swag/other support being shy about asking in public, even if only because they're scared the group never gets started properly and that they will look silly
21:12:08 <utkarsh2102> great!
21:12:18 <nattie> oh dear, i can see both sides now
21:12:59 <valhalla> moray_: I can understand that, but I don't know how good it would be for debian to start sending things without a way to track those requests
21:13:01 <moray_> I think probably we can encourage the list, while telling people about the alias and IRC, and people will find a way to ask in private if they want
21:13:11 <nattie> *nods*
21:13:38 <nattie> valhalla: we can mention shipments on the list after the fact, maybe?
21:13:49 <valhalla> (I'd see no problem with asking in private, getting a preapproval, and then making a formal-ish request on the list)
21:14:12 <nattie> oh yeah, that makes sense
21:14:26 <moray_> #info We think we will want an email alias, e.g. localgroups-admin, at minimum for collecting private data for shipping etc.  We should encourage discussion and requests to go to the public list where possible.
21:14:45 <nattie> and informal inquiries can also go here
21:14:52 <nattie> (the irc channel)
21:15:00 <valhalla> _1
21:15:02 <valhalla> +1
21:15:23 <moray_> #info People can also raise informal inquiries on IRC.
21:15:44 <moray_> Any other Other Business for today?
21:15:54 <nattie> not really
21:15:58 <valhalla> nothing from me
21:15:58 <alexm> none
21:16:18 <nattie> so, see you all formally on 13 March at 13:00 UTC?
21:16:30 <nattie> and of course, talk casually in between
21:16:35 <moray_> sure
21:17:06 <moray_> I'll give a moment for anyone who's typing slowly before closing the formal meeting...
21:18:48 <moray_> Thanks everyone for attending!
21:18:55 <joostvb> re
21:18:55 <utkarsh2102> \o/
21:19:01 <nattie> oh, joost is here!
21:19:19 <joostvb> a bit late-ish...
21:19:22 <moray_> joostvb: Any great thoughts to share within the meeting? :)
21:19:51 <joostvb> i'd like to read up a bit now... :)
21:20:06 <utkarsh2102> that's a great thought, indeed!
21:20:08 <utkarsh2102> :P
21:20:36 <moray_> haha, well probably I should close it then in case anyone is waiting for the formal close before doing something else
21:20:49 <moray_> #endmeeting