04:15:28 <copyninja> #startmeeting
04:15:28 <MeetBot> Meeting started Sun Feb 16 04:15:28 2014 UTC.  The chair is copyninja. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
04:15:28 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
04:15:50 <copyninja> #topic Introduction on how to contribute to Debian
04:16:36 <copyninja> before we start I would like to have a small introduction from you guys
04:17:00 <copyninja> rigved: you can start from your side and give me informations like what are you doing and what are interests
04:18:00 <copyninja> like programming language you use daily etc.
04:18:52 <rigved> ok
04:18:57 <rigved> hi everyone
04:18:57 <copyninja> and parallely here are some interesting links
04:19:08 <copyninja> #link https://wiki.debian.org/Packaging
04:19:15 <copyninja> #link https://www.debian.org/doc/devel-manuals#packaging-tutorial
04:19:23 <copyninja> #link https://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot
04:19:32 <copyninja> #link http://meetbot.debian.net/Manual.html#tutorial
04:19:48 <ssd5321> Hi, I am Sachin. Stay in Navi Mumbai. Working as Project Engineer in a small firm. From last 4 years I am working on various Open Source software, designing solutions using OSS for SMB clients. Not much into development, but do get hands dirty in Perl, Bash.
04:20:36 <copyninja> ssd5321: nice to know
04:20:47 <copyninja> ssd5321: so you have used Debian?
04:21:10 <ssd5321> Recently I had done a setup of ISPConfig on Debian
04:21:19 <ssd5321> Hosted on a VPS
04:22:10 <copyninja> okay so let me start it doesn't like any one else is gonna introduce themselves :)
04:22:23 <copyninja> so basically there are multiple ways you can contribute to Debian
04:22:38 <copyninja> and to contribute to Debian its not mandatory that you have to be a technical person
04:22:53 <copyninja> any one can contribute to Debian and let me explain how
04:22:56 <rigved> I am Rigved, from Mumbai. I am a System Administrator working at Directi. My favourite languages are Python and C++ and I have basic know in those. I am a fan of the Arsenal footbal team. I started out using Ubuntu around 4 years back. Currently, I maintain 2 Debian machines for my dad's office, I use Ubuntu for my personal machines and my cloud server and we use CentOS on all our Linux servers at work.
04:23:32 <copyninja> rigved: nice to know..
04:23:56 <copyninja> so basically most people think contributing to Debian is only *packaging* but thats not true
04:24:18 <copyninja> but anyway let me start from *packaging* and move on to other topics
04:24:37 <ssd5321> okay
04:24:42 <copyninja> so we have couple of sysadmins here so let me ask a question
04:24:59 <copyninja> when you want to install a software on a Linux machine how do you do that?
04:25:13 <copyninja> I want to make session bit interactive because otherwise I will get bored ;-)
04:25:23 <copyninja> jishnu7: you can also jump in
04:26:11 <ssd5321> most of the times we use a package manager
04:26:30 <rigved> copyninja: search the repositories for it and if it's available there, use the package manager. otherwise, compile from source.
04:26:39 <copyninja> yeah
04:27:59 <copyninja> rigved: compiling from source is a way. I won't say it as wrong but it normally lands stuff into non default location i.e. /usr/local
04:28:35 <copyninja> and being sysadmin means only installing is not your job.. you also need to take care maintain and upgrade the software time to time
04:28:44 <copyninja> i.e if there is security updates etc.
04:28:52 <ssd5321> true
04:28:55 <copyninja> so compile and recompile and recompile will take lot of your time right?
04:29:01 <rigved> ya
04:29:22 <copyninja> so what you can do instead is package it for the distribution you use
04:29:35 <copyninja> or just request some one to package it
04:29:51 <copyninja> *some one* here can be any one but you are not making that request to some person
04:30:05 <copyninja> in Debian you make that request to Debian BTS (Bug tracking system)
04:30:20 <copyninja> using specific template called RFP (request for packaging)
04:30:42 <copyninja> in case you want to package it yourself you can file an ITP (intent to package)
04:31:01 <copyninja> #link https://www.debian.org/Bugs/
04:31:18 <copyninja> #link https://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting
04:31:32 <copyninja> so lets see  how we report bug.. you can see the second link
04:32:06 <ssd5321> reading
04:32:19 <copyninja> Debian BTS is having a mail interface i.e. whatever you do is will be using mails and only mails
04:32:45 <ssd5321> okay
04:32:48 <copyninja> Debian BTS itself runs a software called *debbugs*
04:33:03 <copyninja> that itself is available to install using aptitude install debbugs
04:33:29 <copyninja> in case you feel I'm going too fast or have doubts feel free to interrupt me
04:33:46 <copyninja> so the first one will be using *reportbug* software
04:33:59 <copyninja> you can install this software using *aptitude install reportbug*
04:34:18 <copyninja> to file a RFP/ITP you need to fire reportbug like
04:34:21 <copyninja> reportbug wnpp
04:34:44 <copyninja> here *wnpp* is a pseudo package which means Work needing Prospective package
04:35:17 <copyninja> this is a pseudo package against which all RFP/ITP/ITA/RFH/O bugs are filed
04:35:47 <copyninja> pseuado means that package doesn't really exist its created in debbugs for helping organizing of ITP/RFP bugs
04:36:12 <copyninja> at the moment I'm only considering mentioning RFP/ITP I will get back to ITA/RFH/O later
04:36:44 <ssd5321> okay, how can I find name of the pseudo package
04:37:19 <ssd5321> for instance, I need to file a bug report for roundcube, so will I use "reportbug roundcube"?
04:37:27 <copyninja> #link https://www.debian.org/Bugs/pseudo-packages
04:37:46 <copyninja> ssd5321: you want to file bug on roundcube or you want to package it?
04:38:12 <ssd5321> report a bug
04:38:22 <copyninja> then fire reportbug roundcube
04:38:27 <ssd5321> okay
04:38:34 <copyninja> here roundcube is not a pseudo package note that
04:38:47 <ssd5321> okay
04:38:48 <copyninja> pseudo packages are only for organizing things
04:39:07 <copyninja> the link I pasted gives list of pseudo package
04:39:40 <ssd5321> yes, the link explained it
04:39:51 <ssd5321> understood
04:40:00 <copyninja> so after giving package name and description in reportbug it will query bts to retrive all bugs on a package
04:40:05 <copyninja> in our case wnpp..
04:40:31 <copyninja> this is done to let you see if package is already having the bug which you want to file
04:40:38 <copyninja> in our case this will be RFP/ITP
04:40:45 <copyninja> there is easier way to do this search
04:41:08 <copyninja> you can search it before filing bug at http://wnpp.debian.net/
04:41:11 <copyninja> #link http://wnpp.debian.net/
04:41:37 <copyninja> or you can use command called wnpp-check
04:42:19 <copyninja> wnpp-check is part of package called *devscripts*
04:42:33 <copyninja> you are welcome to install it and try it out if you are using Debian/Ubuntu
04:43:08 <copyninja> so if you have made sure there is no ITP/RFP already filed skip searching bugs in reportbug and move to next
04:43:24 <copyninja> it will prompt you with various template like ITP/RFP/ITA/RFH/O
04:43:31 <copyninja> select ITP/RFP and click next
04:43:53 <copyninja> in between it will also ask if you want to notify any other persons
04:44:19 <copyninja> this feature is used when you know there is some teams which maintains some specific category of packages
04:44:49 <copyninja> for eg. if you want to package python modules or application you can always Cc DPMT
04:44:57 <copyninja> or Debian Python Applications Team
04:45:06 <copyninja> here is list of teams in Debian
04:45:17 <copyninja> #links https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/
04:45:26 <copyninja> similarly we have teams for perl/js etc.
04:45:33 <copyninja> #link https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/
04:45:43 <copyninja> you are welcome to explore various teams
04:46:13 <copyninja> I would suggest you to explore the reportbug software now
04:46:24 <copyninja> just make sure you don't report any bug just explore and quit it
04:46:35 <copyninja> use _reportbug wnpp_
04:46:51 <copyninja> command.. if you don't have Ubuntu/Debian then let me know
04:46:55 <copyninja> and we will continue
04:47:39 <ssd5321> sorry I am not on Ubuntu/Debian right now
04:47:49 <copyninja> ssd5321: no problem
04:47:56 <copyninja> rigved: do you want to try now?
04:48:10 <copyninja> and ssd532
04:48:27 <copyninja> tazz: mndar
04:48:42 <rigved> copyninja: yes, i am checking it out now
04:48:54 <copyninja> okay ping back once you explored it
04:49:04 <ssd5321> I will try later after some time
04:49:34 <copyninja> ok no problem
04:49:51 <mndar> is anyone going to come here(DirectiPlex) today?
04:50:17 <jo0nas> for checking WNPP bugs I find it is faster to load this web page: https://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/prospective
04:50:44 * jo0nas hasn't fallen asleep yet anyway
04:50:57 <copyninja> jo0nas: interesting! I didn't knew about this
04:51:19 <copyninja> #link https://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/prospective
04:51:30 * copyninja was using wnpp.debian.net (but that ain't accurate) and wnpp-check
04:52:35 <jo0nas> generally in Debian *.debian.net hosts are unofficial/experimental and *.debian.org hosts are official/stable
04:52:52 <copyninja> right
04:54:37 <rigved> what is the difference between O and RFA type packages...both don't have a current maintainer, right?
04:55:02 <copyninja> rigved: first people will file a RFA
04:55:18 <copyninja> i.e. the current maintainer is still taking care but wants some one else to step up
04:55:24 <copyninja> Request for Adoption
04:55:42 <copyninja> and if some one doesn't show up after some time he will file O
04:55:58 <copyninja> i.e Orphan which mean there is no maintainer for the package
04:57:02 <rigved> ohh okk got it
04:57:38 <copyninja> okay so every one okay with the RFP/ITP part of packaging?
04:57:55 <copyninja> next we will be jumping into packaging directly
04:58:00 <ssd5321> yes
04:58:39 <rigved> one more thing...if i type a package name in wnpp in reportbug and it just asks me for the description, does that mean that there is currently no package like that in the repos?
04:59:06 <copyninja> no
04:59:21 <copyninja> it just asks you for a possible package name and short line describing it
05:00:03 <rigved> ok
05:00:24 <copyninja> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=490231
05:00:25 <rigved> i generally use this link to seach for existing packages: https://www.debian.org/distrib/packages or apt-cache
05:00:30 <copyninja> just a sample ITP
05:01:01 <copyninja> yeah to check if a package you want to package is already in Debian you can use apt-cache
05:01:23 <copyninja> but if you are using testing/stable output might not reflect latest archive state
05:01:55 <copyninja> in that case you can use the link you just pasted
05:02:22 <jo0nas> a quick package search is http://packages.debian.org/$package
05:02:53 <copyninja> right or if you are using duckduckgo search just !dpkg $package
05:02:55 <copyninja> :)
05:03:00 <jo0nas> for offline search, a more powerful one than apt-cache is axi-cache
05:03:25 <copyninja> yep
05:04:47 <ssd5321> really interesting tips :)
05:06:22 <copyninja> :)
05:07:46 <rigved> is axi-cache part of the apt-xapian-index package?
05:08:03 <rigved> or part of the ept-cache package?
05:08:55 <copyninja> apt-xapian-index
05:09:44 <copyninja> so before we move on
05:09:47 <copyninja> #link https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/index.en.html
05:09:58 <copyninja> #link http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/
05:10:23 <copyninja> here maint-guide gives tutorial on how to build a simple-package
05:10:39 <copyninja> on Debian/Ubuntu system you can install it using *aptitude install maint-guide*
05:12:06 <copyninja> and debian-policy package can also be installed to get local copy of debian-policy document
05:12:46 <copyninja> but do it only on unstable system because stable will not have the latest copy of these documents
05:12:58 <copyninja> if you are using stable/ubuntu I recommend using webversion
05:13:17 <copyninja> please explore these.. I will be back in a while
05:14:01 <ssd5321> thanks. started reading maint guide
05:30:23 <copyninja> so lets start from chapter 4 of maint-guide
05:30:43 <copyninja> it gives you list of files under debian directory and its description
05:30:53 <copyninja> please go through them..
05:31:06 <copyninja> the basic files which are needed inculde
05:31:17 <copyninja> control changelog copyright source/format compat
05:31:28 <copyninja> please first go through these files descriptions
05:34:44 <copyninja> I can explain them but I feel its redundant because maint-guide does that job very wel
05:35:02 <copyninja> so basically upstream source will be package-version.tar.gz
05:35:17 <copyninja> which in Debian will be renamed to package-version.orig.tar.gz
05:35:21 <copyninja> or xz or bz2
05:35:39 <copyninja> we call this renamed source as orig tarball
05:35:46 <copyninja> *is
05:35:53 <copyninja> in debian terms
05:36:21 <copyninja> I hope every one is still here
05:36:26 * copyninja had to do some jobs
05:37:28 <rigved> yep
05:39:25 <copyninja> again taking break.. sorry folks
05:41:05 <rigved> np
06:03:58 <rigved> _jaldhar: hi
06:10:21 <jaldhar> hello
06:14:36 <rigved> jaldhar: a session on Debian packaging is currently going on here. everyone is reading chapter 4 of the maint guide: https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/index.en.html currently.
06:15:23 <rigved> chunkyhead: hi
06:15:25 <chunkyhead> hello
06:15:32 <chunkyhead> finally i found a server.. :p
06:15:38 <rigved> chunkyhead: :)
06:15:39 <jaldhar> rigved: Ahh so they've got further than I did ;-)
06:16:23 <rigved> chunkyhead: everyone is currently reading chapter 4 of the maint-guide: https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/index.en.html
06:16:37 <chunkyhead> *irrelevant* arsenal vs liverpool today XD
06:16:38 <rigved> jaldhar: we have skipped the earlier 3 chapters! ;)
06:17:02 <chunkyhead> btw, i do not know python, but i am enthusiastic about coding.
06:17:21 <chunkyhead> is it recommended for me to attend the distributed applications session
06:18:24 <rigved> chunkyhead: you can use any language that you like as long as you understand the concept...so, i would recommend that you attend the python session to understand the concept
06:18:39 <rigved> chunkyhead: btw, which team do you support?
06:18:55 <chunkyhead> arsenal xP
06:19:09 <chunkyhead> !bot
06:19:12 * rigved supports Arsenal too!
06:19:23 <chunkyhead> i thoght MeetBot was a bot, my bad
06:19:53 <chunkyhead> btw, i am planning to buy a new router, earlier one got bricked..
06:20:08 <rigved> chunkyhead: check out https://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot and http://meetbot.debian.net/Manual.html#tutorial
06:20:20 <chunkyhead> what are cheap dd-wrt compatible routers, any idea?
06:20:43 <chunkyhead> with memory >=4mb
06:21:26 <rigved> chunkyhead: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianWRT
06:21:51 <chunkyhead> social dynamics of debian are so friendly. :p other channels are really exploitative, but then they help too
06:25:01 <rigved> copyninja: ping
06:29:18 <jaldhar> so while copyninja is busy can I answer any questions?
06:29:49 <jaldhar> about packaging, being a DD, anything
06:31:12 <rigved> can you explain what is a multi-arch package and the current status of multi-packages in Debian stable and unstable?
06:31:36 <rigved> s/multi-packages/multi-arch packages
06:32:41 <copyninja> sorry was away
06:32:50 <copyninja> #link https://wiki.debian.org/Multiarch/
06:33:01 <copyninja> rigved: check above link for more information on Multi-Arch
06:33:48 <copyninja> its a concept of allowing installation of same package for different architecture in same system
06:33:57 <copyninja> not sure if I'm able to clearly tell my point
06:34:12 <copyninja> so an eg. you have libxml2 lib installed on your system say amd64
06:34:29 <jaldhar> basically the need for multiarch is because todays computers can run more than one binary format.  An architecture specifies the layout of a program on disk and in memory
06:34:46 <copyninja> but you want arm version of same package to be installed this was not possible before but now allowed by multi-arch
06:35:05 <copyninja> yes jaldhar's definition is more accurate than mine :)
06:36:29 <copyninja> so I would parallelly suggest inspecting source of a package when you are reading chapter 4
06:36:47 <chunkyhead> err, i need to run, ttyl
06:37:20 <copyninja> here is http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=debian-in/fonts-navilu.git
06:37:23 <copyninja> one such package
06:37:28 <copyninja> which is maintained by debian-in
06:38:30 <copyninja> so you folks have question on files under debian please shoot it
06:38:35 <copyninja> to me or jaldhar :-)
06:39:10 <_jaldhar> I hate when I lose my connection mid-speech.  But anyway if you want to know more about multiarch go to the wiki page copyninja suggested
06:39:35 <copyninja> _jaldhar: use mosh :-)
06:40:45 <_jaldhar> copyninja: yeah I need to use that and a server side proxy.  I switched from cable to DSL and my connection has got cheaper but worse :(
06:56:13 <copyninja> jaldhar: ah I never thought connection can be bad in US
06:56:45 <jaldhar> it is good if you pay $$$$ :-)
06:57:51 <copyninja> jaldhar: same in India :-)
06:58:00 <copyninja> I've a 10Mbps datacard with 10Gig usage
06:58:19 <copyninja> rigved: ping
06:58:24 <rigved> copyninja: ya
06:58:33 <copyninja> so till what you completed?
06:58:46 <copyninja> sorry had to complete some weekend works and errands
06:58:55 <copyninja> so couldn't give full for the session
06:59:00 <rigved> oh ok np
06:59:26 <copyninja> rigved: this should be continuous sessions like 2 hours every week
06:59:30 <copyninja> with some home work
06:59:35 <rigved> haha
06:59:42 <copyninja> its never possible to learn full packaging in one session
06:59:48 <copyninja> Debian is very huge
06:59:56 <rigved> i know...
07:00:27 <rigved> i feel we can have an introduction kinda talk to packaging in 1 session
07:01:01 <copyninja> rigved: thats what I did today morning.. but I couldn't go into debian directory stuff
07:01:04 <rigved> i had taken a Ubuntu Packaging session when i was in college in 1 2 hour session
07:01:22 <copyninja> rigved: I never had full session one was given to us by praveen
07:01:34 <copyninja> after that its all learning.. you learn as you package more things
07:01:45 <copyninja> I started with one but now maintain 63 packages!
07:01:52 <copyninja> never thought I would reach there ;-)
07:02:00 <rigved> in that session, i had made everyone package the hello package...
07:02:03 <rigved> ya true
07:02:04 <copyninja> and jo0nas maintains 350 odd ;-)
07:02:23 <rigved> ohh...
07:02:39 <copyninja> i think hello is part of maint-guide tutorial
07:02:53 <copyninja> its never the quantity but quality of package that matters
07:03:54 <rigved> i have this plan in mind currently...have a basic debian packaging session and then have a bug-fixing / packaging sprint sometime in april maybe in mumbai
07:04:15 <rigved> i don't know how many people will be interested
07:06:29 <jaldhar> perhaps it might help to make it more user-oriented, installfest, philosophy of foss etc.  Most DDs start off as users then gradually become more interested.
07:07:01 <copyninja> right
07:07:11 <copyninja> jaldhar: and they have kart_ in Mumbai ;-)
07:07:31 <copyninja> btw we plan to hold such meetings and bugsquashing with rkrishnan
07:07:36 <copyninja> in Bangalore
07:08:12 <copyninja> rigved: so shall I end todays session?
07:08:42 <jaldhar> somehow I thought rkrishnan is in Delhi.  We need some Debian presence up north.
07:08:59 <copyninja> jaldhar: nope he is from Kerala and was in US for some time
07:09:11 <copyninja> now in Bangalore.. we meet couple of weeks back
07:09:24 <copyninja> jaldhar: I agree.. we need more Debian all over India
07:09:29 <copyninja> we need Debconf ;-)
07:09:39 <copyninja> jaldhar: going to portaland debconf?
07:10:08 <jaldhar> most probably but I haven't made any bookings or anything yet.
07:10:19 <rigved> copyninja: fine with me
07:10:22 <copyninja> jaldhar: is it near to NJ
07:10:26 <copyninja> #endmeeting