16:59:15 <lucas> #startmeeting
16:59:15 <MeetBot> Meeting started Tue Jun 11 16:59:15 2013 UTC.  The chair is lucas. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
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16:59:28 <lucas> MeetBot: pingall meeting on #debian-dpl
16:59:28 <MeetBot> meeting on #debian-dpl
16:59:28 <MeetBot> algernon aneonoe_ bdrung bgupta buxy chattr Diziet dondelelcaro Ganneff gnugr gregoa Hoaxter hug KGB-0 KGB-1 KGB-2 lucas MeetBot moray_ pabs paultag schultmc taffit taffit_s1d thijs zack
16:59:28 <MeetBot> meeting on #debian-dpl
16:59:34 <lucas> hi all
16:59:50 <lucas> I assume we will have a rather quiet meeting today, since several of us sent regrets
17:00:27 <bgupta> I'm here
17:00:49 <lucas> agenda is at http://titanpad.com/debiandpl-20130611
17:01:15 <paultag> hi y'all
17:01:17 <paultag> I'm hereish
17:02:01 <bgupta> I have a lot of NEW items. and most of my DONE items probably require discussion.. If we want to defer some of NEW items to another meeting we can.
17:03:00 <paultag> I, depressingly have to re-up my only action
17:03:18 <lucas> bgupta: do you have a need for a short meeting?
17:03:38 <bgupta> I have about an hour.. just didn't want to trap people in a long meeting
17:03:41 <bgupta> :)
17:03:58 <lucas> mmh, ok, let's start, and we will see where we get
17:04:01 <bgupta> (I know there have been complaints about meeting length in the past.
17:04:03 <lucas> next meeting in two weeks, OK?
17:04:08 <bgupta> yeah
17:04:28 <lucas> #agreed [2013-06-25 Tue 17:00] ? (date -d @1372179600)
17:04:40 <paultag> +1
17:05:06 <lucas> maybe we could group the domains questions together
17:05:21 <bgupta> Sure
17:05:32 <lucas> #topic debian.mx, handling of non-english debian.* domains
17:06:23 <lucas> i agree that generally, it's better to have debian.* managed by TO. ownership by DDs is marginally OK, but still dangerous because it's harder to monitor
17:06:26 <bgupta> Basically I have collected a list of 27 debian.* domains, of which only 8 are currently held by Debian TOs (List is in Git and auditor knows about it)
17:06:55 <lucas> do you know of the status for the other debian.TLD domains?
17:07:27 <bgupta> The status is in git but some are held by known organizations or individuals, and some require further research
17:08:01 <paultag> are many of the individuals DDs?
17:08:06 <bgupta> my thoughts were to slowly see about getting them under TO ownership, but the bigger question is what to do with domains when we get them..
17:08:15 <bgupta> I haven't gotten that far, I think it's a mix
17:08:20 <paultag> OK
17:08:38 <bgupta> I'd say DD ownership is probably a minority
17:08:55 <bgupta> based on the very small samle I have gotten through
17:09:08 <lucas> it might be useful to work on them using TLD popularity
17:09:31 <bgupta> makes sense
17:10:15 <lucas> what to do with them, mmmh.
17:10:20 <bgupta> I think though the question I want to confirm is that when we do the transfer, the long term goal is to not have a non-debian site there, correct?
17:10:51 <lucas> are there many of them used by debian unofficial sites?
17:10:54 <bgupta> It seems that ideally debian.* domains would point at debian infrastructure and sites
17:10:55 <paultag> it'd be nice to give them to the www team and translate teh text
17:11:34 <bgupta> Well we already have debian.fr, which we could use as a point of discussion with www and internationalization teams
17:11:54 <paultag> I also see a lot of debian.TLD emails around
17:11:57 <bgupta> right now it just point to www.d.o and relies on cn.
17:12:02 <paultag> if those are issued the non-DDs that might break
17:12:26 <lucas> I would say that when there's an active user community behind the domain, it makes sense to allow to keep them as an unofficial site even if the domain itself is owned by Debian
17:12:39 <bgupta> paultag: Feel free to add any that I don't know about to trademark/debiandomains.txt
17:12:45 <paultag> k
17:12:53 <lucas> (= protect only against expiration of the domain)
17:14:06 <lucas> the ones with no or unrelated content should probably redirect to www.d.o
17:15:21 <lucas> for debian.mx, that would mean adding a notice about it being an unofficial website, and a pointer to d.o
17:15:38 <lucas> bgupta: sounds good to you?
17:16:02 <lucas> it might be something to double-check with SFLC
17:16:33 <bgupta> I'm conflicted.. at the very least, I think we need to keep the option to change our mind later?
17:17:02 <lucas> if there's a trademark use request, it's easy to have that, no?
17:17:08 <bgupta> yep.
17:17:18 <bgupta> that's a good way to handle it.
17:17:31 <lucas> also, if we own the domain, we can easily change our mind ;)
17:18:02 <lucas> but I really don't want to harm local user communities
17:18:12 <bgupta> true, but I don't want to set any expectations that we'd upset peopel dwn the road.
17:19:00 <bgupta> I kinda set a different expectation with debian.mx holder. Would you like me to go back and correct to newest thoughts?
17:19:23 <bgupta> (You have the email, I floated it as a proposal)
17:19:30 <lucas> let me double-check what was said
17:20:47 <bgupta> There's enough wiggle room in what I said that I think we can easily come back with a different proposal.
17:21:12 <lucas> the first two points of your list are still valid, and the new proposal would be more favorable to them, so yes, let's see what they think of transfering + continuing to use debian.mx
17:22:11 <lucas> it should probably be checked with SFLC that this policy isn't too liberal
17:22:16 <bgupta> Action: bgupta Follow up with debian.mx, with proposal to allow them to continue using domain
17:22:23 <lucas> I assume they might not be big fans of it
17:22:28 <lucas> you need to use #action
17:22:55 <bgupta> #action  bgupta Follow up with debian.mx, with proposal to allow them to continue using domain
17:23:07 <lucas> #topic discuss if it makes sense to split out Trademark into seperate repo, or should we add new TM team members to dpl-helpers?
17:23:21 <lucas> I'd say: keep it there for now. adding people to dpl-helpers is fine
17:23:36 <bgupta> lucas: any thing we do is probably too liberal ;) However, I already spoke to Mishi, and she'll support what we want to do.
17:23:50 <lucas> ok, good
17:24:08 <lucas> ok with git? or you have strong reasons for a separate repo?
17:24:26 <bgupta> lucas, I'll be following up with you on some of the edge cases… what would be the best channel for that?
17:24:41 <lucas> I prefer email
17:24:53 <bgupta> leader@?
17:24:54 <lucas> yes
17:24:58 <bgupta> ok.
17:25:22 <lucas> I use a separate mailbox for trademark@, so that I can de-prioritize that a bit
17:25:30 <bgupta> #action bgupta seek advice from lucas on some debian.* edge cases (via email)
17:25:46 <lucas> #topic review status new TM team members
17:25:48 <bgupta> good to know
17:26:13 <lucas> (it's just a matter of not seeing that mbox by default, I still read it at least once a day)
17:26:51 <lucas> action lucas to request Joe and Richard to be added to trademark@, and clarify with them that we will re-evaluate their status in september
17:26:55 <lucas> ^would that work for you?
17:27:14 <bgupta> That's fine.
17:27:21 <lucas> #action lucas to request Joe and Richard to be added to trademark@, and clarify with them that we will re-evaluate their status in september
17:27:34 <lucas> #topic dpl, or someone from dpl-helpers attend SPI meeting on the 13th?
17:27:51 <lucas> oops. what's the time? where are those meetings announced?
17:27:53 <bgupta> do we want to confirm what email address they want to forward to before talking to DSA?
17:28:16 <lucas> yes, I'll do that
17:28:17 <bgupta> emial subscribers.. let me dig up one sec
17:28:32 <lucas> it's highly possible I'm missing a list here
17:28:43 <bgupta> SPI Meeting Reminder: Thursday 13th June, 2013 @ 20:00 UTC
17:28:59 <bgupta> this is an SPI board meeting which is open to the public
17:29:42 <bgupta> Nothing indicates we have to attend.. just mooting it as an option.. if we have business we want to raise
17:30:06 <lucas> given I just pinged them about transactions log, it would make sense to attend
17:30:08 <bgupta> I can forward the announcement email to you, if interested
17:30:09 <lucas> I should be able to
17:30:22 <lucas> which mailing list did you get it on?
17:30:39 <lucas> ah, spi-announce
17:30:43 <lucas> I'm not subscribed. will do.
17:30:44 <bgupta> spi-announce@lists.spi-inc.org
17:31:25 <lucas> #action lucas to attend spi meeting on 2013-06-13
17:31:43 <lucas> #topic Help Martin (auditor) draft specs for TO requirements (Martin has agreed for help offer)
17:32:03 <lucas> anything to discuss here, or should I just action it?
17:32:08 <bgupta> go for it
17:32:17 <lucas> #action bgupta Help Martin (auditor) draft specs for TO requirements (Martin has agreed for help offer)
17:32:28 <lucas> #topic should we ask deb-multimedia.org to change <title> (currently: "Debian Multimedia Packages". proposed: "[Unofficial] Multimedia Packages for Debian") ?
17:32:34 <lucas> that's something I'm seeking feedback on
17:32:58 <lucas> from various discussions on debian-multimedia.org, it was clear that people did not understand it was an unofficial service
17:33:06 <bgupta> I don't feel qualified to give feedback, without doing research.. I kinda know the story, but not enough to make a recomendation.
17:34:02 <bgupta> I think if there is confusion, probably changes need to be made, just not sure what.
17:34:07 <lucas> ok, what we would use is the trademark, i'll give you some background by email later
17:34:42 <lucas> #action lucas to provide background to bgupta on deb(ian)?-multimedia.org
17:35:14 * paultag grumbles
17:35:29 <lucas> paultag: ?
17:35:36 * bgupta encourages paultag to speak up
17:35:38 <lucas> paultag: speak up :)
17:35:41 <paultag> debian-multimedia.org situation generally
17:35:47 <paultag> nothing about what y'all are doing, that's spot on.
17:36:24 <lucas> Christian Marillat (who is french) has been commenting in the "Debian is evil" style on some lists
17:36:43 <lucas> (it was in french, that's why I mentioned he is french)
17:36:56 <lucas> I'm not sure we can expect much cooperation from him:/
17:37:05 <paultag> yep
17:37:13 <lucas> moving to action items from last meeting...
17:37:20 <bgupta> evil because we don't host illegal codecs, or evil because we aren't making it clear we don't?
17:37:31 <bgupta> nvm.. save it for email
17:38:24 <lucas> #topic action items from last meeting, no discussion needed
17:38:35 <lucas> just shout if you have comments
17:38:40 <paultag> #action paultag to do the ical thing again
17:38:45 <lucas> ** DONE lucas ping again on the SPI transactions issue
17:38:46 <lucas> mail sent to board@spi on 2013-06-11
17:38:53 <lucas> ** DONE bgupta follow up with auditor@ regarding status of TO criteria I'll be helping Martin on the criteria also NMUed http://wiki.debian.org/Teams/Auditor/Organizations
17:39:06 <lucas> ** DONE lucas/bgupta to add header of criterias for adding things and general goal
17:39:09 <lucas> ** DONE bgupta commit list of debian.* domains to dpl-helpers repo and notify auditors about list
17:39:35 <lucas> those should be reactioned:
17:39:36 <lucas> ** TODO zack to answer on -cloud@ about general philosophical statements from Debian
17:39:39 <lucas> ** TODO moray to propose a more detailed process about the teams survey
17:39:42 <lucas> ** TODO moray to initiate work on paths into the project
17:39:43 <lucas> #action zack to answer on -cloud@ about general philosophical statements from Debian
17:39:46 <lucas> ** TODO Diziet make progress on inbound trademark policy
17:39:49 <lucas> ** TODO paultag do ics automailer
17:39:50 <lucas> #action moray to propose a more detailed process about the teams survey
17:39:55 <lucas> #action moray to initiate work on paths into the project
17:40:04 <lucas> #action Diziet make progress on inbound trademark policy
17:40:11 <lucas> #action paultag do ics automailer
17:40:19 <lucas> oops, duplicate, as a result
17:40:22 <paultag> it's ok
17:40:25 <paultag> I can dedupe later, my bad, sorry
17:40:30 <lucas> ** DONE bgupta to flesh out debian-sponsors wiki here http://wiki.debian.org/Fundraising, and ping list again to share. Discussions ongoing. Need to figure out best way to bring appropriate groups into the conversation
17:40:31 <paultag> We'll close it next meeting
17:41:22 <bgupta> I think we're ok on that last bit of that action item, as I've started inviting the "appropriate groups"
17:41:33 <bgupta> It's now on ongoign thing..
17:41:36 <lucas> ok
17:41:38 <lucas> good
17:41:49 <bgupta> (slowly ongoing)
17:41:52 <lucas> :)
17:42:24 <lucas> so we just all need to participate in the discussions
17:42:40 <lucas> #topic DONE bgupta Write to Mishi@SFLC and confirm that no changes are required to TM policy if we register Logo Confirmed no changes required.
17:42:42 <bgupta> I think I should invite dpl-helpers, if I haven't already.
17:43:01 <lucas> it's kinda implicit, but yes, good idea
17:43:26 <lucas> that goes together with
17:43:33 <lucas> ** DONE bgupta investigate full madrid costs initial costs for logo registration will come in at $3347. Every tenth year after that we are looking at $3915. US-only would be a lot less. I recomend we start with US only, since it is a prerequisite for Madrid. Also I should respond to -project thread.
17:43:49 <lucas> was the answer on -project@ done?
17:44:08 <bgupta> not yet, wanted to discuss here first.
17:44:39 <lucas> I think I had a few questions, of which I don't remember the answer
17:44:42 <lucas> :)
17:44:57 <lucas> like: what do other orgs do regarding geographical registration?
17:45:04 <lucas> only US, or full madrid?
17:45:27 <lucas> we are kind-of the last org to register our logo, it makes sense to follow what others are doing
17:45:59 <bgupta> well, the reason I am recomending start with US, is that we don't even know for sure there won't be any issues registering.. every trademark filling is a process that starts with local juristiction and then go for international extension
17:46:50 <bgupta> IE: the process is basically the same for full madrid as US, in that we get US and then do a seperate application for full madrid ONCE we have US registration in hand
17:47:27 <bgupta> MY feeling is that we will want to go full madrid, but there is absolutely no reason to comiit ourselves to the decision now.
17:47:35 <lucas> I see. so, the next steps are: follow-up post on -project; I approve the spending (via email); someone (you? :) ) go through the process with SPI?
17:47:45 <lucas> +SFLC
17:47:55 <bgupta> yeah
17:48:05 <lucas> excellent
17:48:12 <lucas> I'll action that.
17:48:47 <lucas> #action bgupta to send follow-up post on -project; then request approval for spending (via email); then go through the process with SPI+SFLC
17:49:04 <lucas> ok, that ends the listed points
17:49:29 <lucas> I thought I could share what I have on my todo list for the next two weeks
17:49:40 <lucas> #topic DPL TODO dump
17:49:41 <bgupta> one missing
17:49:42 <lucas> ah
17:49:58 <lucas> ?
17:50:29 <bgupta> trademark repo, stay in dpl-helpers or seprate (now that we are adding tema members we should decide quickly)
17:50:57 <lucas> I proposed to keep the same repo
17:51:00 <bgupta> fine
17:51:11 <lucas> unless you have strong reasons for a separate one, of course
17:51:13 <bgupta> then you need to get new members access to repo as well
17:51:36 <lucas> ok
17:51:45 <lucas> #action lucas to ask new trademark members about alioth login
17:52:21 <lucas> so, re. my TODO, I've got a lot of delegations stuff to do
17:52:52 <lucas> initiated by moray, there's the idea of implicitly revoking all inactive/unknown delegations
17:53:20 <lucas> there's also work on the policy delegation (+1 member, likely -1 member, but I'm still waiting for a reply)
17:53:46 <lucas> there used to be a delegation for representing debian in the gnome advisory board
17:54:01 <lucas> someone is stepping down in the press team
17:54:16 <lucas> and of course, I need to update the keyring delegation
17:54:27 <lucas> so expect a lot of boring emails from me on dda :/
17:55:00 <lucas> ah, and I still haven't found the time to answer two interview requests
17:55:14 <lucas> (I need to coordinate with the press team, esp. for one of them)
17:55:44 <lucas> besides that, I'm quite happy, because I'm almost out of urgent stuff in my DPL todo list
17:56:23 <lucas> bgupta: you said earlier you won't make it to debconf?
17:56:58 <bgupta> Looks like not, :)
17:57:08 <bgupta> oh wait one thing to add to agenda.
17:57:19 <bgupta> debconf thing reminded me
17:58:31 <bgupta> I met Monty widiniusmysql/maridb author in NYC recently, and followed up with his executive assitant encouraging them to apply to give a DC13 talk…
17:58:59 <lucas> ah, good idea
17:59:35 <lucas> could you maybe forward the info to the mysql maintainer?
17:59:38 <bgupta> She wrote back and said it's of interest.. was thinking that if we want them rather than make him/them apply, that we might consider a formal invitation.
18:00:12 <bgupta> Can I forward to you, and you forward to appropriate people (which also likely inclusdes DC-committe)
18:00:46 <lucas> the formal invitation would be a debconf talk committee decision, yes
18:00:55 <lucas> yes, sure
18:01:13 <bgupta> thanks..
18:01:29 <lucas> ok, I think this ends the meeting
18:01:33 <lucas> #endmeeting