18:32:23 <tumbleweed> #startmeeting
18:32:23 <MeetBot> Meeting started Wed Sep  9 18:32:23 2015 UTC.  The chair is tumbleweed. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:32:23 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
18:32:33 <tumbleweed> #link https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf16/Meetings/2015-09-09
18:32:34 <tumbleweed> Agenda
18:33:13 <nkukard> hi MeetBot
18:33:14 <indiebio> tamo and I are having a glass of wine/beer, so we're relaxed and learning wiki and code stuff
18:34:12 <tumbleweed> #topic tasks page for volunteers
18:35:16 <tumbleweed> indiebio: are you going to talk about any of this?
18:35:37 <tumbleweed> is there anything in this agenda that we need to talk about, basically? :)
18:35:40 <indiebio> I can, I wrote it all on the wiki, but sure. stop me when it gets boring
18:35:59 <tamo> hi
18:36:02 <indiebio> So nkukard suggested a task page (and it was mentioned before) for people to sign up for small takss
18:36:20 <indiebio> uhm, regarding things that need discussion, yes
18:36:45 <indiebio> So, the break-down, from my side:
18:36:46 <tumbleweed> so, there's a lot on the tasks page that duplicates things canonically sourced elsewhere
18:36:51 <tumbleweed> (like team contacts)
18:37:14 <DLange> and the timeline
18:37:22 <indiebio> I would like people to take note and edit as they see fit, the task page, the timeline, sponsors.
18:37:31 <indiebio> The logo and website needs actual discussion
18:37:43 <indiebio> tumbleweed: yes
18:38:05 <indiebio> I designed this for people with no clue abut debian (girl/boy friends, wifes/husbands who get roped in)
18:38:12 <indiebio> one page where they can sign up for stuff
18:38:26 <indiebio> if these tasks are done by existing teammembers, they should put their names down there
18:38:29 <indiebio> if these tasks are done by existing teammembers, they should put their names down there
18:38:58 <indiebio> so I hope that the tasks page and timeline are the go-to page for us during the whole event orga
18:39:09 <indiebio> the reference page for whenever we need to know something - when what needs to be done and who is doing it
18:39:50 <DLange> why both? Can't we put the tasks in the timeline and then the core team knows which ones need to be done and have no volunteer yet?
18:40:10 <tumbleweed> ok. Then we must go through it and ensure it's accurately describing current teams, so no team feels usurped
18:40:13 <madduck> DLange: yeah, I like this idea, and it also makes it easy for late-joiners to know what's current.
18:40:37 <indiebio> we could, I guess, but it gets very big and clumsy...
18:40:44 <indiebio> I don't mind, if someone else wants to take it - I made a start, do with it as you wish
18:40:45 <DLange> but a single view of things ... usually more helpful than partially redundant views
18:41:09 <tumbleweed> indiebio: I think it's useful
18:41:11 <madduck> maybe the wiki isn't the best format, but a timeline-based approach to things that need doing makes a lot of sense IMHO.
18:41:20 <indiebio> tumbleweed: yes. I think we need a whole meeting just for that. I just wanted to draw attention to its existence today
18:41:30 <tumbleweed> ack, shall we move on, then?
18:41:43 <indiebio> so we can minute that it exists, that people should look at it, and we can sprint it in due course
18:42:16 <indiebio> sure.
18:42:41 <tumbleweed> #idea people to review the task list, and expand / correct contents
18:42:54 <tumbleweed> #topic Timeline
18:42:57 <tumbleweed> we've already touched on this
18:42:59 <tumbleweed> anything else here
18:43:01 <tumbleweed> ?
18:43:18 <tumbleweed> (sorry, I'm not being the fastest chair I can - my computer is bogged down with a pypy build, making iceweasel very unresponsive)
18:43:29 <DLange> renice :)
18:43:53 <indiebio> that's fine, I think we can move to design, tamo?
18:44:41 <tumbleweed> #topic Design
18:45:08 <indiebio> So, sub-topic:Logo
18:45:29 <indiebio> We realised during debconf that the logo was never properly 'onboarded' and people felt it was rushed
18:45:52 <indiebio> We just want to make sure, and if needed give one more week for everyone to make final suggestions on the logo.
18:46:12 <indiebio> So, can we ask, is anyone feeling they want the logo tweaked or changed in any way?
18:46:27 <indiebio> especially highvoltage, superfly
18:46:40 <indiebio> tamo has put more options on dropbox
18:47:06 <indiebio> the internet here in the pub is not sterling, but if it's not there yet it will be by tomorrow, and I'll make sure it makes it to git as well
18:47:10 <DLange> can you paste a publically accessible link ("share")?
18:47:23 <tumbleweed> link please
18:47:24 <superfly> I'm fine with it. There's enough that I can keep the general theme when working on different form factors
18:47:47 <tumbleweed> I think only tamo can share it
18:47:49 <indiebio> DLange: I'll make a note of it and work with tamo on this after the meeting
18:48:06 <DLange> ack
18:48:31 <indiebio> dropbox link: https://www.dropbox.com/l/G4XntzCDvRTjWPf7tUQBbv
18:48:35 <indiebio> check it works?
18:48:56 <tamo> indiebio: those are my final suggestions, please see my comments, but everybody is welcome to make their proposals, it's about teh Cape Town font not the actual log.
18:49:19 <indiebio> so just the swirly text, right?
18:49:37 <indiebio> highvoltage, what's your thoughts on the logo, do you want a week to play with it?
18:49:44 <tamo> tumbleweed: hey tumbleweed I did invite everyone and left it as editable
18:50:02 <tamo> indiebio: yes, my understanding
18:50:21 <highvoltage> indiebio: I don't know that PDF seems to change the only thing everyone seemed to be happy with :)
18:50:33 <indiebio> huh?
18:50:36 <tumbleweed> tamo: indiebio's liknk is doing the trick
18:51:09 <tamo> tumbleweed: okidoke cool
18:51:25 <indiebio> so are you happy, highvoltage?
18:51:26 <highvoltage> indiebio: you saw the PDF? it has variations of the typeface "Cape Town" is written in. afaik most people were happy with how cape town was written.
18:51:34 <tamo> highvoltage: sorry not understanding can you explain?
18:51:46 <indiebio> yes, so maybe we don't have to change that then
18:51:58 <tumbleweed> highvoltage: is there anything you are still unhappy with, about the current logo (besides the process, which has mostly run its course :P )
18:51:59 <indiebio> but do you want to play with more logo ideas, highvoltage?
18:52:29 <highvoltage> well I think the "debconf" font doesn't look at all relevant, it doesn't seem to fit either debian, debconf or cape town
18:52:55 <highvoltage> that's just me and I don't want to hold anything up, like I said at debconf I feel no need to drag that out
18:53:24 <DLange> I agree with highvoltage. And the two fonts always fight each other, no matter which ones you use.
18:53:31 <indiebio> can we give you a wekk deadline to come up with an alternative, at which point we discuss all the options available, and then make a decision on a final logo then?
18:54:00 <indiebio> so if we finalise the logo now, tonight, would you be ok with that, highvoltage, DLAnge?
18:54:13 <ginggs> one other thing, capitalization:  isn't it usually written 'DebConf', rather than 'debconf'?
18:54:14 <madduck> the sooner the better
18:54:18 <tumbleweed> highvoltage: I feel similarly. But I also do like the logo, and we have to settle on one soon
18:54:23 <highvoltage> indiebio: I can post some alternative font suggestions, I'd rather have that by the end of tomorrow than a week from now
18:54:26 <indiebio> I dunno, I like the logo as is. I'd like the 'proper' debian swirl somewhere, but I'm easy
18:54:29 <madduck> ginggs: either will work, but generally DebConf, yes. debconf is a perl script.
18:54:31 <superfly> can't say I'm a big fan of the "debconf" font either, but it's workable imho
18:55:01 <indiebio> ok. so can we minute that by end of Friday (for some flexibility) highvoltage will have alternatives,
18:55:04 <highvoltage> indiebio: I don't know how else to say it, I repeatedly said at debconf I'm fine if we settle with the current logo
18:55:14 <tumbleweed> indiebio: rather than saying "come up with alternative" to a bunch of non-designers. Can we rather agree to work together?
18:55:16 <indiebio> and then we discuss that over the weekend, those who want to, and we finalise it by the next weekly meeting
18:55:26 <madduck> indiebio: i think it can be considered "decided", no?
18:55:31 <indiebio> but I want you to be happy, highvoltage :)
18:55:32 <tamo> tamo: then I think as indiebio said maybe come up with suggestions and a week is what the deadline is
18:55:37 <tumbleweed> if tamo is open to feedback and working with someone on design, that could work. I don't think people can be expected to have final proposals by the end of this week
18:55:54 <tumbleweed> or, of course, we could just decide that we're happy with it now, and move onn
18:56:12 <madduck> +1 ;)
18:56:14 <superfly> *finally* at my desk
18:56:17 <tumbleweed> let's be realistic about what we can accomplish this week
18:56:26 <indiebio> I don't think everying needs to submit proposals, if you want to, you do.
18:56:43 <tumbleweed> I don't think anyone is going to submit proposals
18:56:48 <DLange> pushing on doesn't mean it gets better
18:56:49 <tumbleweed> nobody has indicated that they will
18:56:56 <tamo> tumbleweed: thata is the problem I am thinking we need the sponsors brochure done, but can't put the wrong logo on it will be inconsistant
18:56:57 <indiebio> it would be best if we decide it's final and move on, but if people are really unhappy and want to redo this, then that is important.
18:57:03 <DLange> we don't ask tamo to fix highvoltage's code either
18:57:15 <tamo> tumbleweed: pardon spelling
18:57:16 <tumbleweed> tamo: absolutely, we have to finalize it fro the brochure and website
18:57:21 <DLange> so why not collect the feedback and have another design interation...
18:57:34 <highvoltage> DLange: no, that would be cruel.
18:57:46 <tamo> DLange: :)
18:57:55 <indiebio> ok, so is everyone happy that we consider the logo finalised? can we minute that?
18:58:12 <indiebio> speak now and wear your badger proudly
18:58:27 <superfly> mushroom! mushroom!
18:58:38 <highvoltage> I don't understand why I have to be happy about it. I'm prepared to accept it and that's the best I can do.
18:58:38 * superfly is fine with that
18:58:53 <tumbleweed> highvoltage: :P
18:58:58 <tamo> indiebio: haha
18:59:06 <tumbleweed> #agreed our logo design is final
18:59:16 <tumbleweed> subtopic: website
18:59:17 <indiebio> ok, we'll make you happy from now on, highvoltage. I will try my level best
18:59:57 <tamo> indiebio: ok so is that sytems go?? re: logo?
19:00:03 <indiebio> so this is website DESIGN, not front end coding or wafer.
19:00:09 <superfly> tamo sent the banner image through this afternoon. I haven't had a look at it yet, but her wireframes so far are OK
19:00:54 <superfly> Nothing I cannot put together
19:01:00 <indiebio> ok, and we definitely want input, alternate design ideas of any sort, opinions, bike shedding on this can commence and continue for an amount of time
19:01:03 <tamo> superfly: yes sorry been up to my eyeballs since I got back!!
19:01:06 <superfly> (aside from that diamond in the middle of the menu)
19:01:39 <indiebio> highvoltage: what time frame do you suggest for the ideas phase to continue until?
19:01:55 <tamo> superfly: ok :( but can work around that, banner was just beginning stages must do more design on it
19:01:59 <indiebio> and can we agree on the 'wireframe' layout, the boxes and positions of things, so superfly can start coding it?
19:02:00 <indiebio> maybe?
19:02:30 <highvoltage> indiebio: not sure I understand the question, I think tamo's wireframes so far are great and we can work together to evolve that work
19:02:45 <indiebio> so not colours and fonts and stuff, but the initial coding of it?
19:02:49 <indiebio> excellent highvoltage
19:03:04 <highvoltage> indiebio: imho superfly could work directly into templatizing it as it evolves so that we could use it in whatever system we'll end up using
19:03:07 <superfly> indiebio: coding makes no sense without some sort of colours and fonts and stuff
19:03:08 <indiebio> so superfly/people can start work on that, and then we can design the stuff together?
19:03:14 <indiebio> argh
19:03:33 <indiebio> surely it can... back when I websites it could. search and replace colours, no?
19:03:41 <highvoltage> indiebio: imho wager is a logical choice for the static site already, and I think if it might end up evolving into more than that then we should treat that as a seperate discussion
19:03:47 <tamo> indiebio: yes but good to start deciding on colours soon so it can be carried through to all elements of design and marketing etc,etc
19:03:48 <indiebio> I'm trying to find a way to move this forward efficiently but still give people time to design
19:04:03 <highvoltage> indiebio: yes, superfly knows CSS :)
19:04:14 <tumbleweed> indiebio: I think the design will evolve as its implemented
19:04:28 <indiebio> ok highvoltage. i have no idea how any of this works, so how do we proceed?
19:04:33 <indiebio> and it can't take forever
19:04:33 <superfly> indiebio: it's more than just find and replace colours, it's about layout and UX and meta
19:04:44 <tamo> superfly: you're right we do need to put that in the bag too re, fonts colour etc
19:04:47 <indiebio> ok, superfly: tamo agreed too :)
19:05:03 <superfly> indiebio: I suggest we work on wireframes and then mockups
19:05:05 <indiebio> so, meeting time is flying along, what are the next steps with interim deadlines?
19:05:13 <madduck> brochure.
19:05:17 <indiebio> cool, and deadlines?
19:05:22 <indiebio> madduck: shut up
19:05:31 <madduck> sorry
19:05:38 <superfly> indiebio: I need a better idea of what content is going on the site
19:05:50 <superfly> or should I just copy what past DebConf's have done?
19:05:53 <tamo> superfly highvoltage we can alwyas organise a meeting time if need be?
19:06:02 <superfly> tamo: I'd like to do that.
19:06:17 <highvoltage> tamo: yep, that would be great
19:06:20 <tumbleweed> superfly: yeah, past debconfs sounds fine
19:06:23 <indiebio> agreed
19:06:37 <tumbleweed> superfly: I think there's a general trend to move information from the website to the wiki, to reduce load on website maintainers
19:06:44 <indiebio> we can take the content thing offline
19:06:46 <tamo> superfly: yes if I can have a week to finish the website content of basic pages then we can meet and go through all?
19:06:50 <indiebio> agree tumbleweed
19:07:00 <superfly> tamo: we need to do some sort of content matrix
19:07:01 <tumbleweed> superfly: so, it can be fairly simple :)
19:07:08 <indiebio> so can we minute to have a website meeting in a week?
19:07:08 <superfly> tumbleweed: great
19:07:18 <madduck> superfly: I think the main website's content depends a lot on how easy it is to edit
19:07:25 <superfly> indiebio: yes, I'll get a content matrix together
19:07:25 <tamo> superfly: content matrix???
19:07:34 <indiebio> I think can we not discuss this here
19:07:37 <madduck> if it's XHTML like now, then the tendency would probably be to keep it down to a minimum and use the wiki extensively, like DC15
19:07:37 <tumbleweed> #agreed website meeting next week
19:07:39 <tamo> superfly: the backend?
19:07:40 <highvoltage> madduck: you said you like .rst
19:07:41 <indiebio> let's take it further in that meeting
19:07:48 <indiebio> and move on to ... madduck: brochure!
19:07:55 <madduck> if it's .rst or something like that (yes) in Git, then it can be expectec to be maintained a lot better
19:07:57 <superfly> tamo: negative. let's take it further in another meeting
19:08:19 <highvoltage> madduck: wafer supports that, it seems like a logical approach to handling content changes.
19:08:21 <Tincho> madduck: changing the current scripts to take rst from git instead of xhtml is quite the small change
19:08:40 <indiebio> DUDES. no more website talk.
19:08:45 <tamo> tumbleweed: perfect
19:08:50 <indiebio> next: brochure
19:08:55 <tamo> superfly: okidoke sounds good!
19:09:02 <tumbleweed> highvoltage: wafer supports rst in db, not rst in git (sorry indiebio )
19:09:05 <indiebio> or website talk elsewhere
19:09:18 * indiebio runs away screaming
19:09:30 <tumbleweed> #topic brochure
19:09:35 <tumbleweed> let's make that clear
19:09:41 <highvoltage> tumbleweed: oh bother. ok we can pic that up again :)
19:11:07 <tamo> I have updated the meeting wiki of where I am at etc https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf16/Meetings/2015-09-09#Brochure
19:11:08 <indiebio> tamo is learning wiki, just hang on :)
19:11:16 <indiebio> oh wow, see :)
19:11:21 <tamo> haha I am learning!!
19:11:26 <tumbleweed> #link https://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/debconf-data/dc16.git/plain/Design/Sponsors_Brochure_print_draft_6sept15.pdf
19:12:25 <tumbleweed> tamo: what do you need from us?
19:12:26 <tamo> we have put a few more changes on Dropbox waiting for it to download, but as I go along I will save and add etc
19:13:13 <tumbleweed> pages 1, 2, 4, 9 in that PDF are black for me. Am I missing something?
19:13:17 <tamo> tumbleweed: there is a draft already that Brian added in Git in the design folder, it would be nice to hear a few comments on it
19:14:08 <indiebio> There is a draft in git/dc16/Design/Sponsors_Brochure_print_draft_6sept15.pdf
19:14:13 <indiebio> it's 13MB at the moment
19:14:16 <tumbleweed> indiebio: I linked to it already
19:14:19 <indiebio> ah
19:14:24 <indiebio> wait for it to load?
19:14:27 <indiebio> it looks fine to me
19:14:32 <tamo> tumbleweed: ok can I send you to Dropbox then?
19:14:38 <tumbleweed> indiebio: what PDF viewer?
19:14:41 <DLange> no black pages, indiebio?
19:14:46 <indiebio> it is big now, but tamo will flatten the images once it;s final final
19:15:08 <tumbleweed> indiebio: it's on my local machine, no waiting for loading necessary
19:15:33 <indiebio> no, tumbleweed, there's an updated one, but we haven;t loaded it yet, but nevermind, the 6sept one gives the gist of it
19:16:07 <superfly> yeah, I also had black pages
19:16:14 <indiebio> i don't know then, tumbleweed. I'll put the next one on git, and dropbox should be synced soon, by tomorrow morning latest
19:16:20 <tamo> tumbleweed:  https://www.dropbox.com/home/DEBCONF2016/MARKETING20MATERIAL
19:16:31 <indiebio> can we minute that everyone look at it, see if they like it (if they care about it, that is)?
19:16:36 <highvoltage> tumbleweed: one you pasted from git loaded fine for me in chromium's pdf reader
19:16:48 <tumbleweed> for those following at home, that is https://www.dropbox.com/sh/wmizkyzieb1i8fh/AAD9k5TrgW3h9KIgpDH_rjxSa?dl=0
19:17:14 <tassia> guys, I could only arrive now, sorry :(
19:17:15 <indiebio> in the interest of time, can we get back to this tomorrow?
19:17:29 <tassia> I'read backlog and send comments later
19:17:37 <indiebio> the bottom line is, we (tamo) is  working on it, and it should be final by the 14th
19:17:44 <indiebio> it takes long, but it's worth it
19:17:45 <tumbleweed> tamo: which file in there? "Sposors Brochure more work done.pdf" hasn't uploaded yet
19:17:50 <indiebio> hi tassia :)
19:18:01 <tamo> tumbleweed: I ahve used Debcon15 images as fillers, for now but need images if other debconf's would like to add some images related to the article
19:18:04 <tumbleweed> indiebio: so do you need help on content, or is that covered?
19:18:14 <highvoltage> what's the source format for that doc?
19:18:19 <indiebio> no, I think it's done, wendar, madduck and co helped.
19:18:23 <tassia> indiebio, hi ;-), and sorry for disturbing
19:18:30 <indiebio> the content is in final_text_ something something .txt
19:18:33 <indiebio> on git
19:18:36 <tamo> tumbleweed: 1st draft of where I am at PDF
19:18:47 <indiebio> so unless madduck wants to know more, can we move on?
19:18:50 <tamo> tassia: hey tassia!!
19:19:28 <madduck> indiebio: I just want the final version. I don't care about looks (although it looks great), and nor do I think this is something the team needs to care about. We need to get started fundraising though.
19:19:33 <madduck> sorry if I repeat myself or bgupta
19:19:44 <indiebio> I know madduck.
19:19:49 <tumbleweed> yes, it doesn't sound like there's much to discuss here
19:19:54 <indiebio> But looks are important too
19:19:59 <indiebio> ok, let's move on
19:20:00 <tumbleweed> we're mostly getting caught up in finding the PDFs that you're talking about :)
19:20:15 <tumbleweed> #topic Website content
19:20:15 <indiebio> website: I think we can discuss it all at the website meeting?
19:20:26 <tumbleweed> have we covered this sufficiently, yet?
19:20:28 <indiebio> The only thing to minute here is that we have decided to go with wafer
19:20:29 <tamo> tumbleweed: sorry we will have it loaded properly etc :(
19:20:30 * highvoltage will spend some time on content polish where possible/welcome/needed tomorrow
19:20:31 <indiebio> (not summit)
19:21:00 <superfly> tumbleweed: I'm going to take a look at dc15 and dc14 and make a content matrix, and we can talk about it at the website meeting
19:21:07 <tumbleweed> righto
19:21:16 <tumbleweed> #topic contracts
19:21:29 <indiebio> contracts are equally slow and frustrating :((
19:21:34 <tumbleweed> indiebio: you asked me for progress? I can't really help here
19:21:39 <tumbleweed> we need something to show SPI
19:21:41 <tumbleweed> and the DPL
19:21:47 <indiebio> I emailed Belinda of CMC again, but didn't call her today as promised. will chase up tomorrow
19:21:48 <tumbleweed> so, this depends on negotiations
19:22:15 <indiebio> I did talk to nkukard and we are moving closer to deciding on a finacial vehicle
19:22:19 <madduck> instead of dealing with long documents, have you considered a term sheet to capture the main issues?
19:22:32 <indiebio> we are thinking we'd most probablyh register a company
19:22:42 <tumbleweed> indiebio: can you expand on the reasoning for that?
19:22:43 <indiebio> we just need their contract. and then we can find issues.
19:22:54 <indiebio> nkukard would be better suited to expand...
19:23:10 <indiebio> something about liability I think
19:23:43 <indiebio> I'm really sorry (and vicuously annoyed) that things are going slowly at the moment
19:23:44 <tumbleweed> I thought the CMC was our finanncial vehicle
19:24:09 <indiebio> uhm, nkukard thinks not.
19:24:20 <indiebio> where are you nkukard? badger, come in, roger
19:24:25 <nkukard> I am here, reading what you saying
19:24:32 <madduck> i am also not convinced by that. They might provide treasury and payment services, but they hardly will run our conference legally
19:25:09 <nkukard> I want to to see the financial part of the agreement, then I guess a decision must be made how we are to proceed
19:25:12 <nkukard> form a company or not ... etc
19:25:17 <indiebio> yeah, think that was it. but registering a company is apparently neither difficult nor time-consuming, so should be easy-ish (famous last words)
19:25:29 <nkukard> yea, it is really easy
19:25:32 <indiebio> so nkukard, did you see the template Belinda sent a long time ago?
19:25:55 <indiebio> so in terms of meeting, please minute: there's no progress :(
19:26:28 <nkukard> I was looking for it a bit earlier, is it in git?
19:26:45 <indiebio> yes, can we move on to budget and I'll find it so long
19:26:56 <madduck> if you form a company, keep in mind that you need to tear it down too post-dc16, which can take many months and effort
19:27:20 <highvoltage> I've done it before, it's not so hard in SA
19:27:21 <DLange> the fast companies are for-profit though (just FTR. NFPs takes ages in ZA)
19:27:22 <tumbleweed> indiebio: before we move along
19:27:30 <tumbleweed> you said in the agenda that "The DPL said this is not a problem to get from SPI - Stefano please update the team?"
19:27:39 <tumbleweed> that's not all the DPL said
19:27:53 <tumbleweed> he also thought the huge upfront deposit was stupid, and asked us to push back on that
19:27:57 <indiebio> nkukard: git/dc16/UCT_Contracting/CMC_Standard_Conference_Management_Agreement_14_feb_2014.doc
19:28:11 <tumbleweed> I don't know if the current exchange rate means it's actually a good idea, though :P
19:28:11 * nkukard does a git pull on this pc
19:28:30 <tumbleweed> nkukard: the other reason we were avoiding a company was tax
19:28:33 <indiebio> tumbleweed: yes. so once CMC contract is signed we can move on accommodation contract where this comes into play
19:28:42 <tumbleweed> indiebio: ok
19:29:00 <nkukard> tumbleweed, you are not going to escape tax
19:29:03 <tumbleweed> I assume whether we're doing a company or not, we're doing CMC, because it saves us money, and buys us influence
19:29:10 <tumbleweed> nkukard: CMC seemed to think we would
19:29:13 <nkukard> I spent like 4 hours explaining a few months back
19:29:21 <indiebio> yes tumbleweed
19:29:22 <nkukard> that is why I said I want to see the contract
19:29:23 <tumbleweed> nkukard: let's discuss this outside the meeting
19:29:29 <tumbleweed> nkukard: we don't have the final contract, yet
19:29:32 <tumbleweed> #topic Budgeting
19:29:33 <nkukard> exactly :)
19:30:37 <tumbleweed> nkukard: so, we're budgeting based on 350. Is that sensible? or do we need a parallel budget for 250 (which we thought was more realistic(
19:30:47 <tumbleweed> 350 is on the upper end of what I'd expect
19:30:53 <nkukard> exactly
19:30:55 <indiebio> tumbleweed: please minute that I contact Belinda from CMC again?
19:30:58 <nkukard> thats the amount we budgeting for as max
19:31:06 <nkukard> anything more and we need to check figures
19:31:13 <tumbleweed> #action indiebio to contact Belinda from CMC again
19:31:31 <indiebio> I think let's budget for 350
19:31:32 <marga> indiebio, you can #action and #info as well
19:31:37 <tumbleweed> nkukard: your travel sponsorship budget seems amazingly low
19:31:40 <indiebio> oh. thanks marga :)
19:31:58 <indiebio> nkukard: I'd also like to know where do we submit budget amounts?
19:32:09 <tumbleweed> (like 20 people from the northern hemisphere)
19:32:17 <nkukard> indiebio, ML would be fine I guess
19:32:20 <indiebio> nkukard: how do we go about sourcing the numbers? do you need help on that
19:32:59 <nkukard> tumbleweed, I believe the figures I have for sponsorship were based from a discussion with marga and some others one evening who were discussing sponsorship, it can easily be changed, but thats the figures I got
19:33:07 <madduck> tumbleweed, nkukard: I'd triple or quadruple that travel budget.
19:33:28 <marga> I have no idea what it says, but I'd push for 50k USD normal travel + 10k USD outreach
19:33:31 <tumbleweed> yeah, we really need to be budgeting a lot there, or we won't have a conference
19:33:46 <nkukard> then the team must submit the figures to me please
19:33:53 <nkukard> I put in what they give me :)
19:34:05 <indiebio> so can I suggest something like a budget sprint or meeting where we can focus on this?
19:34:33 * madduck has dejavu feelings
19:34:34 <tumbleweed> or we can just let it evolve over time, a bit
19:34:49 <indiebio> what are the timeline/deadlines for budget?
19:34:52 <tumbleweed> nkukard: are you going to ping the team leaders, to get budgets?
19:35:00 <nkukard> tumbleweed, that is why we have a poker :)
19:35:09 <highvoltage> madduck: I'm relieved that you say so
19:35:15 <marga> that didn't work too well last year
19:35:25 <marga> (asking leaders for budget)
19:35:38 <tamo> indiebio: shame walked into that one ;)
19:35:51 <indiebio> I am concerned that our team is not big enough for people to have ideas about all the facets that need budget
19:36:04 <indiebio> I suggested to nkukard that we use DC15 as a guide to start...
19:36:10 <tumbleweed> past budgets are useful for that,yes
19:36:15 <highvoltage> madduck: (the quadrupling of travel sponsorship estimate, not the dejavu statement :) )
19:36:16 <indiebio> but we need a hack session to just think and talk through stuff
19:36:21 <madduck> highvoltage: yeah
19:36:21 <DLange> take the DC15 budget and you have 90% of the line items, not?
19:36:26 <indiebio> actually the global team would be great input here!!
19:36:29 <nkukard> indiebio, I did and I discussed this with a number of teams
19:36:34 <nkukard> the numbers I have is a result from that
19:36:39 <nkukard> and no one has said anything after I mailed the ML
19:36:41 <madduck> marga: right, but it's the way to go. We need to coach the "leaders" or whatever we have to provide those numbers.
19:36:50 <Tincho> marga: this year the teams will hopefully have theexperience from dc15
19:36:52 <madduck> DLange: that's what he's doing.
19:36:59 <nkukard> I am adjusting with marga's figure snow
19:37:17 <nkukard> marga, your 10k usd is in there already :)
19:37:34 <indiebio> nkukard: for me, I didn't know what was going on... so I would like to be walked through it in a sprint thingie
19:37:38 <madduck> make it 20, nkukard
19:38:06 <madduck> we had 11k € for dc15
19:38:19 <DLange> and had a hard time to use it
19:38:22 <indiebio> but you were in Debian Central. We're going to have to up that
19:38:38 <madduck> DLange: because we started 6 weeks before the conference.
19:38:48 <marga> the 10k were for outreach, which means not-involved-with-Debian people.
19:38:51 <tumbleweed> ok, I think we need to start moving on
19:38:52 <nkukard> madduck, the 10k was after discussion with the sponsors/diversity team .... I'd prefer their team lead give me figures?
19:38:58 <indiebio> anyways, do we want to caht about this at this meeting, or take it offline? This *is* going to be the next thorny issue
19:38:59 <tumbleweed> nkukard: can I minute that you'll talk to team leads?
19:39:04 <madduck> nkukard: sure. Didn't know.
19:39:05 <indiebio> We need to look at trval budget from Nicaragua
19:39:15 <tumbleweed> yes, that's a good comparison
19:39:54 <nkukard> tumbleweed, must I be responsible for poking people to give me their budgets?
19:40:06 <tumbleweed> somebody must
19:40:14 <indiebio> it's 21:40 peeps, we need to move on. can we please have a hour loing hack at budget in the near future, nkukard, when it suits you?
19:40:32 <indiebio> I don't mind poking, tumbleweed, nkukard, but I want to know what's going on first.
19:40:34 <nkukard> remember, my time is limited, I do not have any free time, I am traveling until 1st Oct now ... so additional tasks I must do out of the scope of doing the budget I need to plan
19:40:48 <tumbleweed> ok
19:40:51 <marga> This is not as urgent as other things
19:41:02 <nkukard> I can submit a mail weekly to the ML with outstanding items?
19:41:04 <nkukard> would that help?
19:41:08 <highvoltage> maybe slightly off-topic, but it there might be some social ways to encourage people to only request travel sponsorship for the amount they need (rather than mostly always applying for full amount), maybe a a slider or similar on the registration form to encourage that (if needed (and yes, I know, that's another discussion))
19:41:11 <tumbleweed> nkukard: yes, that's a great start
19:41:16 <nkukard> awesome
19:41:19 <nkukard> that is easy to do :)
19:41:24 <tumbleweed> #action nkukard to ask team leads for budget proposals
19:41:38 <tumbleweed> #topic Social/Teambuilding
19:41:40 <nkukard> #info NK will send mail to ML with outstanding items :)
19:41:49 <madduck> highvoltage: we tried and some people think we failed to do that last year. But yes, it's the right direction.
19:41:50 <indiebio> Ah, an easy item :)
19:42:17 <tumbleweed> so yes, I intend to be in ZA for the first week or two of Oct, thanks to pyconza
19:42:19 <indiebio> next braai: tumbleweed, when are you here again?
19:42:26 <tumbleweed> haven't booked flights, yet
19:42:32 <indiebio> so what saturday works for a braai?
19:42:46 <tumbleweed> 10 Oct
19:43:17 <indiebio> so, tumbleweed, dats's set, book the flights. nkukard, tell your better half.
19:43:20 <nkukard> we can shift braai to then, sounds good
19:43:24 <indiebio> and... next item.
19:43:30 * superfly diarises
19:43:32 <tumbleweed> #info Braai on 10 Oct
19:43:33 <nkukard> indiebio, can you email Natalie?
19:43:40 <tumbleweed> #topic Sponsors
19:43:51 <indiebio> ok. jeez, nkukard, what;s the going salary for a PA these days?
19:44:21 <tumbleweed> indiebio: what are you looking for here? people to talk to the sponsors team?
19:44:24 <indiebio> no, sorry, next sub-item: is everyone OK with me using some of the team building budget to organise a recruitment event with Robyn Farah of Arduino-CT?
19:44:54 <nkukard> indiebio, she is the planner for braai's not me :), I just finance them :D
19:45:25 <indiebio> tumbleweed: I want people to take note, and look for potential sponsors, NOT contact them, and let us know please
19:45:28 <indiebio> that's all for now.
19:46:01 <indiebio> but this is the next urgent thing.
19:46:05 <tumbleweed> indiebio: yes, no objection on that team-building. Any idea how much is "some" ?
19:46:06 <marga> indiebio, what kind of recruitment event?
19:46:06 <highvoltage> indiebio: I've been to a few of her events, the Arduino CT group is a nice crowd so I think it would be nice (although they are also very busy poeple typically so results will vary)
19:46:46 <indiebio> no idea tumbleweed, I'll talk to Robyn and relay it to the team before I commit.
19:47:11 <indiebio> highvoltage: it's actually the Modern Alchemists. they have a facebook group
19:47:31 <indiebio> marga: I don't know exactly what yet. I want to chat to her and will email the ML before I proceed
19:47:38 <highvoltage> indiebio: no they're not completely the same thing
19:47:46 <indiebio> yes, I know.
19:47:52 <highvoltage> indiebio: see her facebook groups for details
19:47:55 <tamo> nkukard: here we can do the snack or dinner thing?
19:47:58 <indiebio> all I want to know is if I can contact her and scope ideas
19:48:29 <indiebio> and we'll invite all the communities - CLUG, arduino-CT to come
19:48:40 <tamo> indiebio: I think it is a good idea, know where we stand etc
19:48:58 <indiebio> anyways, I'm not seeing a clear no, so consider yourself informed. I wont move before I email you a clear plan, don't worry
19:49:00 <indiebio> moving on?
19:49:15 <wendar> indiebio: sounds good
19:49:35 <nkukard> tamo, I'm thinking, we can take to list I think
19:49:59 <tumbleweed> #topic Communication
19:50:17 <tamo> nkukard: not sure what you mean
19:50:23 <nkukard> tamo, maling list :)
19:50:44 <tamo> nkukard: :) haha yes def
19:50:51 <indiebio> So I don;t even want to go into the details of this. I'm going to stick to, all please subscribe to debconf-team@lists.debconf.org if you haven;t already (nudge nudge ginngs)
19:51:09 <tumbleweed> http://lists.debconf.org/lurker/message/20150907.214838.7f7b6a44.en.html sums up my views
19:51:23 <tumbleweed> meetings in -team, try to keep discussion to -team
19:51:38 <tumbleweed> break away to here, if we have to
19:51:55 <tumbleweed> have you all filled in the latest version of  https://dudle.inf.tu-dresden.de/xwrd6g9h/?
19:52:00 <tumbleweed> (hint, I know the answer is no)
19:52:01 <Tincho> tumbleweed++
19:52:17 <indiebio> you can read my email (sent on 20 aug) on the wiki and the bikeshedding on IRC for more info
19:52:24 <tamo> tumbleweed: how do we subscribe?
19:52:50 <tumbleweed> http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
19:53:08 <tamo> tumbleweed: cool thanks!
19:53:15 <highvoltage> tumbleweed: you can clearly see who has and who hasn't ;)
19:53:29 <tumbleweed> I'll ping them afterwards
19:53:41 <indiebio> ok, then skipping ahead, two more things that we can discuss later, two ideas for the more 'creative' side to DebConf...
19:53:50 <tumbleweed> #topic ShowMeBox
19:53:54 <tumbleweed> indiebio: why didn't you chair? :)
19:53:58 <indiebio> It's still very early days for both of these
19:54:02 <indiebio> sorry tumbleweed :)
19:54:07 <indiebio> we're a team :P
19:54:19 <tamo> indiebio: :)
19:54:28 <indiebio> plus, you got us into this thing, you better do stuff too
19:54:38 <indiebio> ok, so anyways
19:55:30 <tamo> indiebio: Creative side is info technology meets art
19:55:38 <indiebio> The ShowMeBox is an idea hatched by two long time Debian people: Kris Rose and Jonas Smedegaard
19:55:55 <indiebio> The info is here: https://wiki.debian.org/ShowMeBox
19:56:29 <indiebio> I don't want any responses now, I just want you to take note
19:57:07 <highvoltage> Not to be mean, I think it could be a nice project, but is it relevant on an orga level?
19:57:12 <tamo> indiebo good as an Outreach programme, and bringing that element in
19:57:14 <indiebio> We'll have proper kick off meetings in October, except in the (I pray unlikely) event you kill it before then
19:57:23 <tumbleweed> highvoltage: yeah, it sounds like we should form an outreach team
19:57:30 <indiebio> no, but you need to know it exists, highvoltage
19:57:33 <highvoltage> *nod*
19:57:41 <madduck> I think it's great to have such ideas and to make people aware of them in due time.
19:57:42 <indiebio> it would ideally then not feature here any more
19:57:50 <indiebio> absolutely, madduck
19:57:52 <Tincho> it is probably something to be handled along with other outreach initiatives
19:57:55 <madduck> indiebio: I do suggest that you mail this in a separate email to dc-team just to make people aware.
19:58:01 <tamo> madduck: agreeed
19:58:13 <indiebio> yes, my aim for this meeting is that you know about it, so you don't feel steam rollered.
19:58:24 <indiebio> madduck: noted
19:58:33 <indiebio> but everyone here is OK with it so far?
19:58:56 <Tincho> sounds like a great idea
19:58:59 <indiebio> #agreed indiebio email dc-team about ShowMeBox
19:59:01 <tamo> indiebio: yes great initiative, I think
19:59:07 <indiebio> did that work. tumbleweed?
19:59:26 <tumbleweed> no idea, but I think you need #info
19:59:31 <tumbleweed> #info indiebio email dc-team about ShowMeBox
19:59:37 <madduck> indiebio: it should have. We don't know until afterwards. MeetBot is crap like that sometimes.
19:59:38 <tumbleweed> #topic  Information Art Exhibition
19:59:39 <indiebio> thanks tumbleweed :)
20:00:13 <madduck> also sounds like a good project. let's do it. ;)
20:00:33 <indiebio> this is something tamo suggested, and in similar vein to ShowMeBox
20:00:33 <tumbleweed> lgtm :)
20:00:41 <indiebio> so we'll just email DC-team with it?
20:00:48 <madduck> with all such initiatives, I think that they should happen unless they have an impact on overall DebConf, and then we need to ensure that all consequences are considered.
20:00:52 <indiebio> what is lgtm, tumbleweed?
20:00:53 <tamo> tumbleweed: yes was thinking that it would be an awesome way to intergrate coding or technology into artworks taht people can submit for a biit of a different take on things
20:01:00 <tumbleweed> indiebio: "looks good to me"
20:01:15 <tamo> tumbleweed: soorry speling !! argh
20:01:25 <indiebio> #info indiebio and tamo email dc-team about Information Art Exhibition
20:01:39 <indiebio> sweet. so with that I think we're done.
20:01:44 <indiebio> I *Really* need to pee
20:01:45 <tumbleweed> #topic Any Other Business?
20:01:51 <DLange> TMI indiebio :)
20:02:12 <indiebio> ah DLange, I miss you already
20:02:15 <tamo> indiebio: yes I think we can put something constructive together then add
20:02:41 * highvoltage is planning to take some time to populate DC16 wiki space based on the DC15 wiki space (and perhaps give it some general TLC)
20:02:45 <indiebio> tamo and I will put together a acronym page for DC16
20:03:02 <highvoltage> (not sure if there's any thoughts or suggestions on that or if I should hold off for now)
20:03:05 <madduck> yaap
20:03:10 <indiebio> highvoltage: that would be epic
20:03:16 <highvoltage> indiebio: see also: Urban Dictionary
20:03:17 * DLange carefully hugs the still dry parts of indiebio
20:03:18 <tumbleweed> highvoltage: \o/
20:03:24 <madduck> DLange: TMI
20:03:52 * DLange excludes madduck from hugging. No dry parts to be found.
20:03:57 <tumbleweed> it sounds like we're done
20:03:58 <tamo> DLange: LOL
20:03:59 <indiebio> I had some ideas, but go ahead highvoltage
20:04:09 <tumbleweed> #endmeeting