17:59:30 <tumbleweed> #startmeeting DebConf Video Team 2020-06-25
17:59:30 <MeetBot> Meeting started Thu Jun 25 17:59:30 2020 UTC.  The chair is tumbleweed. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:59:30 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
17:59:36 <tumbleweed> #link http://deb.li/oNCD Agenda
17:59:41 <tumbleweed> #topic Roll Call
17:59:46 <tumbleweed> Say hi!
17:59:57 <pollo> hi!
18:00:18 <tumbleweed> is it just the two of us? :)
18:01:00 <tumbleweed> I guess so
18:01:07 <tumbleweed> #topic Actions from previous meeting
18:01:12 <tumbleweed> #link http://meetbot.debian.net/debconf-video/2020/debconf-video.2020-06-16-17.59.html minutes
18:01:23 <tumbleweed> pollo: you had 2 actions
18:01:30 <pollo> I haven't had time to do either
18:01:32 <tumbleweed> olasd, RattusRattus?
18:02:05 <tumbleweed> I haven't seen progress on either of those items
18:02:20 <tumbleweed> #topic Tracking progress in Salsa
18:02:27 <tumbleweed> #link https://salsa.debian.org/debconf-team/public/data/dc20-online/-/issues
18:02:33 <tumbleweed> Nothing there yet
18:02:49 <tumbleweed> Should we start by turning those action items into issues there?
18:02:58 <pollo> I think we should
18:03:10 <pollo> not that I volunteer to :)
18:03:20 <tumbleweed> #action tumbleweed to create issues for the 4 pending action items
18:03:21 <tumbleweed> pff
18:03:26 <olasd> sorry, I was distracted
18:03:41 <tumbleweed> haai :)
18:04:01 <tumbleweed> olasd: anything to say about latency, or moving on?
18:04:09 <olasd> no progress
18:04:42 <tumbleweed> #topic video stack
18:04:42 <olasd> I doubt I'll really have time before we sprint, tbh
18:05:00 <tumbleweed> are we having a sprint?
18:05:10 <pollo> I'm confused between videostack and streaming setup
18:05:20 <tumbleweed> they are closely tied to each other
18:05:42 <pollo> tumbleweed: AGREED: online sprint during early July (paddatrapper, 18:18:03)
18:05:54 <paddatrapper> We need to set actual dates
18:06:11 <tumbleweed> ok, that's later in the agenda
18:06:23 <pollo> anyway, back on topic, we did talk about OBS a little since our last meeting
18:06:38 <pollo> I wasn't really following that discussion closely though
18:06:49 <tumbleweed> I don't think any conclusions were reached
18:06:52 <tumbleweed> we need to experiment
18:07:14 <paddatrapper> Yeah. There were some notes on playing recorded media
18:07:20 <highvoltage> o/
18:07:27 <olasd> vocto has been finicky with sources coming and going, so we really need to test that
18:07:35 <paddatrapper> Essentially vocto isn't really designed to do it
18:07:49 <tumbleweed> I'd be especially concerned with audio in that scenario
18:08:00 <tumbleweed> (I mean, keeping it in sync)
18:08:34 <highvoltage> I hope this is on topic,
18:08:50 <tumbleweed> OK, doubt there's much more to say on this point in the meeting. We really need to experiment
18:09:07 <highvoltage> but I was thinking that the jitsi instances that we'll set up could be at $roomname.debconf.org and set up specifically for debconf
18:09:35 <highvoltage> pollo said something like he does have an ansible role that we can recycle
18:09:36 <pollo> highvoltage: if there are more than 1 track
18:09:36 <tumbleweed> you think one jitsi instance wouldn't cut it?
18:09:55 <pollo> highvoltage: nope, I have a puppet module :P
18:10:03 <highvoltage> pollo: aaaah, ok
18:10:14 <paddatrapper> Would need a server per Jitsi instance then
18:10:20 <highvoltage> I guess if there's just one track then jitsi.debian.social is fine and we don't have to do much jitsi work then
18:10:36 <highvoltage> anyone know what the talk count is?
18:10:50 <highvoltage> (oh wait there's that handy stats page that tumbleweed usually reminds us of right about now)
18:10:52 <tumbleweed> https://debconf20.debconf.org/talks/statistics/
18:10:56 <olasd> there's stats
18:10:57 <tumbleweed> highvoltage: let me ask again
18:11:06 <tumbleweed> you think we need more than one jitsi?
18:11:16 <tumbleweed> isn't one easier?
18:11:43 <highvoltage> tumbleweed: if we have more than one track, then it's easier yes, although if the streaming script is made a bit more clever then it might also be ok even with 2 tracks
18:12:02 <highvoltage> ah 23 talks submitted so far
18:12:08 <highvoltage> ok I think the one jitsi is fine
18:12:16 <paddatrapper> highvoltage: I'm not seeing what makes it easier?
18:12:37 <tumbleweed> I assume a lot of submissions will come in at the last minute (or later)
18:12:51 <highvoltage> paddatrapper: well for one, overload in one session wouldn't hurt other sessions on other jitsis (that was my initial thought)
18:13:18 <paddatrapper> How close have we come to overloading the Jitsi instance?
18:13:20 <tumbleweed> redundancy is certainly useful
18:13:32 <paddatrapper> I agree redundancy would be good
18:13:47 <highvoltage> paddatrapper: and re: the streaming script if it worked like last time we wouldn't have to add much to the script (to know where to stream through, but I suppose that's trivial enough to fix too for next time)
18:14:05 <paddatrapper> Yeah that is trivial to base on the entered key
18:14:16 <highvoltage> paddatrapper: last time CPU use were about 50-65% for a general ballpark
18:14:26 <paddatrapper> Hmm ok
18:14:30 <highvoltage> paddatrapper: I think more of that was for jibri than jitsi itself
18:14:41 <paddatrapper> Yeah sounds about right
18:14:56 <paddatrapper> We will need other servers with jibri running anyway
18:15:03 <highvoltage> I think if we want multiple jibris per jitsi (omg) then we would need a much beefier machine
18:15:14 <pollo> would redundancy really help? If our jitsi server goes down, I feel trying to fix it will take less time than trying to switch everything (and everyone) to another instance
18:15:26 <tumbleweed> pollo: I tend to agree
18:15:37 <tumbleweed> less infra to maintain means we can fix things faster
18:15:55 <paddatrapper> Jibri will require running on additional servers from what I've seen. Containerising doesn't play nicely, nor does VMs
18:16:04 <highvoltage> I thought it helps in the sense that if one track goes down, it doesn't affect other sessions, but I'm not married to the idea and have no strong feelings about it
18:16:14 <pollo> tumbleweed: real replication would be great, but it's shit ton of work
18:16:21 <tumbleweed> putting jirbis on separate machines sounds sensible
18:16:32 <pollo> just having a spare jitsi instance doesn't seem worth it imo
18:16:38 <paddatrapper> I'm happy to get them set up and scripted
18:16:48 <highvoltage> pollo: yeah no one suggested that
18:17:01 <tumbleweed> Let's move on
18:17:15 <tumbleweed> #topic Streaming Setup
18:17:22 <tumbleweed> Anything to discuss here?
18:17:34 <tumbleweed> I suspect this is dependant on the investigation olasd was going to do
18:18:34 <tumbleweed> I'll take that as nothing to discuss
18:18:48 <tumbleweed> #topic Advice/training for directors/talkmeisters
18:18:56 <olasd> *nod*
18:19:12 <paddatrapper> This would depend on RattusRattus' docs I guess
18:19:25 <pollo> is anyone else helping with that?
18:19:28 <tumbleweed> I'd say his docs are more about the next one
18:19:48 <paddatrapper> pollo: nattie and I
18:19:55 <pollo> hmm, it's hard to pin down anything yet since we are still flying blind though
18:19:58 <tumbleweed> #link https://storm.debian.net/shared/iVvMB3RMXFtTen_jbtZ_FIh0-Ob54DaYvXvxaZx7_Ls the note sI started
18:20:55 <tumbleweed> So, who is responsible for director and talkmeister training?
18:20:58 <highvoltage> in slide design, it might be worth while saying that 16:9 slides are best
18:21:15 <highvoltage> (it does mention resolution, but I noticed at mdco that some people had 4:3 slides)
18:21:21 <tumbleweed> highvoltage: added
18:21:25 <paddatrapper> I'm happy to deal with it once we have a firmer idea of what our stack is
18:21:31 <tumbleweed> please add to this yourself, too
18:22:00 <tumbleweed> #agreed paddatrapper can do training once the stack is finalized
18:22:15 <tumbleweed> #topic Advice/training for presenters
18:22:17 <highvoltage> cool
18:22:22 <tumbleweed> (this is really where that #link should have gone)
18:22:51 <tumbleweed> This is not dependant on stack
18:22:58 <tumbleweed> we should be getting this done ASAP
18:23:27 <tumbleweed> Maybe a few of us can spend 10 mins on it after the meeting?
18:23:41 <highvoltage> I'm in
18:23:47 <paddatrapper> Cool
18:23:56 <tumbleweed> #topic Questions wrt to language tracks
18:24:06 <tumbleweed> We were asked: What are the minimal requirements for people who want to organize a language track
18:24:27 <olasd> I think the answer given at that point (1 director + 1 talkmeister) was about right?
18:24:30 <tumbleweed> My thoughts: directors, video reviewers, talk meisters
18:24:37 <highvoltage> they're still submitting via wafer right? or is it more independently organised?
18:24:42 <pollo> are language tracks completely separate from the "regular" talks?
18:24:54 <pollo> as in, they can be in parallel ?
18:24:55 <paddatrapper> Yeah, I think 3 is really the minimum. All need decent Internet
18:24:57 <tumbleweed> highvoltage: yes, a track is created for them
18:25:18 <highvoltage> so... we would use more than one jitsi room at a time?
18:25:24 <tumbleweed> pollo: they can be. Or they could be scheduled in a convenient timethat doesn't overlap with english events
18:25:29 <highvoltage> or will they kind of interlock and not overlap time-wise?
18:25:56 <olasd> I suspect we can make the schedule have a single concurrent event at all times
18:26:03 <pollo> I've said it before, but depending on the location of those people, moving the jitsi server closer might not be a bad idea
18:26:04 <olasd> s/can/will be able to/
18:26:04 <highvoltage> (getting jibri off of the jitsi host will probable solve my performance concerns will talk to paddatrapper again later)
18:26:17 <tumbleweed> olasd: yeah, if we want to put our foot down on that, we certainly can
18:26:24 <paddatrapper> highvoltage: yeah, can split that out, no problem
18:27:10 <tumbleweed> highvoltage: I think this is going to come down to the level of interest in the event
18:27:32 <tumbleweed> I'd hope that, like any debconf, lots of ad-hoc discussions happen in jitsi during conference events. But those don't need streaming
18:27:45 <pollo> depending on the timezone, I think it would be a good idea to have someone from the videoteam "on call"
18:27:53 <tumbleweed> yeah
18:27:57 <highvoltage> tumbleweed: we can hope for the best and plan for the worst, and shape our plans as we get closer to the event and have more data
18:28:05 <tumbleweed> yep
18:28:38 <pollo> as guidelines, I'd say we can manage 2 concurrent tracks during Europe/NA daytime, but not in other timezones
18:28:53 <tumbleweed> #agreed language tracks should have at least 1 video director, 1 video reviewer, 1 talk meister. They also need a core video team person to be on call in their timezone
18:29:03 <paddatrapper> pollo: sounds reasonable
18:29:28 <tumbleweed> #agreed the video team thinks we may be able to support 2 concurrent tracks during EU/NA daytime, but probably not in other timezones
18:29:46 <tumbleweed> I'll forward that bit on to content team
18:30:02 <tumbleweed> #topic Test Setup
18:30:21 <tumbleweed> What infra are we wanting to use for the conference?
18:30:35 <tumbleweed> highvoltage: you were speaking about reorg of the jitsi.debian.social instance
18:30:36 <highvoltage> heh, is there a pad for that?
18:30:47 <tumbleweed> but I think we'll need quite a few VMs
18:30:51 <pollo> I've got a good ping to the current Hetzner server
18:31:00 <olasd> yeah, I think we need a list of components and spec them
18:31:01 <tumbleweed> so probably we should be doing the whole thing in a cloud?
18:31:05 <pollo> so I think staying in that datacenter would be great
18:31:08 <tumbleweed> (to give some flexibility)
18:31:12 <highvoltage> pollo: yeah a good portion of the world has reasonable pings to there
18:31:24 <tumbleweed> sometimes their are DDoSed though
18:31:31 <tumbleweed> there are days when hetzner sucks
18:31:38 <pollo> highvoltage: is the current jitsi.debian.org server a baremetal hypervisor?
18:31:41 <highvoltage> tumbleweed: I spoke about a bunch of different things so not sure *exactly* whare you mean, but for now getting jibri off is at least the initial plan
18:31:49 <highvoltage> pollo: it's a hetzner cloud instance
18:32:03 <olasd> my bouncer has 280 us ping to that server :P
18:32:15 <olasd> (yes, same dc)
18:32:26 <tumbleweed> heh
18:32:39 <highvoltage> pollo: that's basically a VPS with 8 ryzen cores and 16GB RAM
18:32:40 <olasd> tumbleweed: haven't seen much of that in the last few years of using them; maybe I've been lucky?
18:32:44 <pollo> paddatrapper: you said something about jibri needing baremetal?
18:33:00 <tumbleweed> pollo: not me
18:33:11 <tumbleweed> I doubt anything *needs* baremetal
18:33:12 <paddatrapper> pollo: not bare metal, but with a public IP
18:33:21 <highvoltage> I also wondered about that since it's not running on baremetal now
18:33:39 <highvoltage> ah, yeah, we'll do more VPS's with their own IPs for jibri that's fine
18:33:50 <pollo> I think it would be great if we could get an EPYC server and manage KVM ourselves
18:33:50 <paddatrapper> So running our own hypervisor causes issues that I really don't want to have to try fix
18:33:57 <pollo> heh
18:34:35 <tumbleweed> #link https://storm.debian.net/shared/9x6jml4j5QW_qyJWtJs_ogIRKjcwirMZQX0ZXfdByPF pad to write up infra requirements
18:34:37 <highvoltage> pollo: that's what we do on the debian.social box, but there are cost implications if you want additional IPs, etc, so for small things, especially short lived VMs, a short lived vps instance is ok
18:34:37 <paddatrapper> But this is purely for jibri and Jitsi, the rest of the stack could be on our own hypervisor
18:35:05 <highvoltage> pollo: longer term we will likely get an openstack instance for debian with lots of IPs and space for lots of VMs then we can run this kind of thing there
18:35:26 <pollo> I have no experience with openstack though...
18:35:32 <highvoltage> me neither
18:35:33 <tumbleweed> it's just like any other cloud
18:35:53 <pollo> anyway, we'll need to flesh out the specs for sure, and there is a pad
18:35:57 <highvoltage> what further do we need to cover in the stack? we can get people together in jitsi, capture it with jibri, stream to the debconf CDN...
18:36:07 <highvoltage> we just need to imrpove some glue afaict
18:36:11 <tumbleweed> paddatrapper: I'd tend to agree. hypervisors are not our concern
18:36:16 <olasd> .oO(Debian had an openstack instance that noone ever used)
18:36:39 <highvoltage> olasd: I wonder if it was set up by the same person who wants to do it now (not impossible)
18:36:52 <paddatrapper> highvoltage: stick OBS or similar in the middle and yeah, I reckon that's about it
18:37:27 <tumbleweed> highvoltage: so, is hetzer cloud an option here?
18:37:38 <tumbleweed> could multiple people in the debconf video team get access to this account?
18:37:42 <highvoltage> tumbleweed: yes, certainly
18:37:51 <tumbleweed> (or do we need a new one?)
18:38:10 <highvoltage> tumbleweed: I can get philhug to create a debconf video team group, add us, and then we can create/destroy VMs as we please
18:38:49 <tumbleweed> otherwise aws / some other thing is an option
18:38:51 <highvoltage> if you want, you can send the DPL an updated delegation that includes some budget for videoteam to create VMs as needed
18:38:56 <tumbleweed> and zigo was also volunteering infra, last week
18:39:05 <highvoltage> then the videoteam doesn't have to ask for approval to do that again
18:39:29 <tumbleweed> there isn't a debconf20 budget yet, but I'd expect one to be in place before the event
18:39:35 <highvoltage> could also do a combination of things and try it out
18:39:39 <tumbleweed> I guess the problem is we should be experimenting now, not then
18:40:14 <tumbleweed> what budget should we request? $1k?
18:40:17 <pollo> tumbleweed: if the global latency to the Infomaniak datacenter is similar, I don't mind, but we have to keep that in mind
18:40:38 <tumbleweed> I'd expect it to be similar
18:41:51 <highvoltage> tumbleweed: sounds reasonable
18:42:12 <pollo> worst scenario we can ask for a budget update
18:42:33 <pollo> but I agree it'd be nice to have machines to play with, I'm tired of stealing $work ressources
18:42:46 <tumbleweed> #agreed video team to ask DPL for a $1k budget to allow experimentation before debconf20 has a budget
18:42:48 <highvoltage> then let's consider this a high priority
18:43:12 <tumbleweed> #topic Any Other Business
18:43:45 <highvoltage> I've never used DO droplets in a team before, can you also set up teams / billing in a way that debian.ch could pay for it and video team could create those as needed?
18:43:57 <pollo> How keen are we into putting everything into ansible?
18:44:11 <tumbleweed> highvoltage: yes, and we have an account set up like that
18:44:12 <pollo> I somehow doubt we'll be able to do it in time
18:44:16 <tumbleweed> (except DLange pays, I think)
18:44:31 <paddatrapper> pollo: Probably a good idea for reproducibility though
18:44:36 <highvoltage> tumbleweed: maybe we can also consolidate all of that so that the TO directly pays
18:44:37 <tumbleweed> pollo: would be nice, but not critical
18:44:43 <DLange> tumbleweed: SPI pays
18:44:55 <pollo> paddatrapper: I agree it would be great, but I'm not sure it's realistic
18:44:56 <DLange> this is just a team I set up at the time
18:45:24 <DLange> i.e. you can empty SPI with the DO instances but not my company, separate team
18:45:33 <highvoltage> heh
18:45:59 <paddatrapper> pollo: at least parts can be then. I can do jibri. The CDN stuff is already there. It is missing jitsi and OBS
18:46:26 <highvoltage> at least jitsi isn't that hard. it's a ppa and a few packages and a few config files
18:46:40 <phls> hi all. We gave up to organize a portuguese track on DC20
18:46:53 <highvoltage> phls: probably a content issue at this point
18:47:01 <pollo> mleh, not my experience... If we go with ansible for jitsi, let's please consider looking at the Ansible Galaxy first
18:48:16 <tumbleweed> I guess that isn't any other business then
18:48:25 <tumbleweed> #topic Upcoming Meetings
18:48:30 <tumbleweed> IRC next week?
18:48:31 <highvoltage> pollo: ah, was easier for me, did you use Debian or some other shitty distro :p
18:48:46 <pollo> tumbleweed: wfm
18:48:50 <highvoltage> +1
18:48:57 <tumbleweed> #agreed IRC meeting same time next week
18:48:59 <tumbleweed> online sprint
18:49:04 <tumbleweed> We said early July. When?
18:49:11 <pollo> highvoltage: well, I did things "right" in puppet, and that means managing prosody correctly in a separate module, etc.
18:49:12 <tumbleweed> early july is this time next week :P
18:49:33 <paddatrapper> After 5 July (state of the Map)
18:49:37 <olasd> tumbleweed: I think we said after SOTM
18:49:51 <tumbleweed> So, weekend of 11th?
18:50:31 <pollo> fri-sat-sun ?
18:50:37 <tumbleweed> 5th is when the content team will start putting together the schedule
18:51:01 <paddatrapper> tumbleweed: cool. I won't be around the Sunday, but can do the rest
18:51:11 <tumbleweed> pollo: WFM
18:51:27 <tumbleweed> olasd, highvoltage?
18:51:34 <highvoltage> +1
18:51:37 <olasd> yeah, that probably works
18:51:56 <tumbleweed> #agreed video team to sprint on infrastructure 10-12 July
18:52:10 <tumbleweed> Test runs
18:52:14 <tumbleweed> presumably those come after this
18:52:19 <pollo> I guess we're going to want to work on EU time as much as possible, I'll try to shift my schedule to get up earlier
18:52:29 <tumbleweed> we'll probably get speakers wanting to test around that time, too
18:53:07 <tumbleweed> pollo: yeah, I can try that too
18:53:17 <pollo> the weekend after for a test run?
18:53:24 <paddatrapper> pollo: +1
18:53:45 <nattie> wfm
18:54:07 <tumbleweed> #agreed can tentatively aim for some video test runs on the weekend of 19-19 July
18:54:12 <highvoltage> fwiw I'm available most of the weekend to try stuff too (and probably will regardless)
18:54:34 <tumbleweed> last call for AoB?
18:54:54 <tumbleweed> #endmeeting