18:00:20 <pollo> #startmeeting 18:00:20 <MeetBot> Meeting started Tue Jun 18 18:00:20 2019 UTC. The chair is pollo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 18:00:20 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 18:00:25 <highvoltage> o/ 18:00:26 <pollo> #topic Roll Call 18:00:36 <pollo> please say hello if you are here for the meeting 18:00:41 * wouter is here 18:00:42 <olasd> hello if you are here for the meeting 18:00:45 <highvoltage> hello if you are here for the meeting 18:00:47 <RattusRattus> "hello if you are hear" 18:00:48 <wouter> (for the first time in months) 18:00:50 <ivodd> hi 18:00:53 * DLange is just lurking 18:00:57 <RattusRattus> wouter: ack same 18:00:59 <phls> hi 18:01:00 <tumbleweed> o/ 18:01:09 <pollo> also, have a look at the proposed agenda: http://deb.li/3aA7s 18:01:14 <tumbleweed> (in the middle of another meeting, but hopefully killiing that soon) 18:01:14 <lenharo_> o/ 18:02:10 <pollo> seems like y'all here 18:02:23 <pollo> #topic Marseille & Hamburg post-mortem 18:02:41 <pollo> hurray for two successful events back to back! 18:03:00 <ivodd> we want more of those (events and successful ones) 18:03:11 <wouter> yeah, I think things went pretty smoothly 18:03:12 <phls> cool 18:03:15 <wouter> at least from my POV 18:03:18 <pollo> we also found a bunch of problem with our setup. It seems tobi and urbec started a shopping list already 18:03:25 <olasd> I think two weeks apart is the minimum though 18:03:28 <pollo> +1 18:03:45 <pollo> I'll action tobi and urbec to send a mail on ML pointing to a proper shopping list pad 18:03:58 <olasd> unless someone is taking the stuff from one event to the next 18:04:01 <pollo> #action tobi & urbec to send a mail on ML pointing to a proper shopping list pad 18:04:03 <wouter> I should probably add that I used the experience of configuring SReview for the two miniconfs to also document how to update things 18:04:14 <olasd> great! 18:04:15 <wouter> there's a README.miniconf (or some such) in ~sreview on vittoria 18:04:28 <wouter> (can't remember the exact filename, but you can't miss it) 18:04:51 <wouter> so hopefully that should reduce my bus factor slightly ;) 18:05:14 <pollo> so do we want to talk about what went wrong that doesn't imply buying more stuff to fix it? 18:05:30 <wouter> is there anything in that category? ;-) 18:05:44 <pollo> I was mainly thinking about the ground loop issue 18:05:47 <RattusRattus> well #1 how did the training sessions go? 18:05:57 <wouter> oh right 18:06:06 <pollo> if we have an idea of what caused that, it would be nice to record it here 18:06:39 <pollo> #info we had a ground loop problem at both the Marseille and the hamburg mini-confs 18:06:44 <RattusRattus> earth loops are unfortunatly common. mainly caused by differing power at differant ends of a building. 18:06:55 <olasd> RattusRattus: everything was wired to the same outlet 18:07:18 <RattusRattus> olasd: including the PA system? 18:07:21 <olasd> yes 18:07:30 <ivodd> well, the issue happened without the pa system 18:07:35 <olasd> or that, yes 18:07:36 <ivodd> just the mixer, the camera and the pc 18:07:41 <wouter> is there perhaps some of our kit that's leaking to ground? 18:07:52 <wouter> that can also produce hums, IIRC 18:07:55 <ivodd> the probably suspect is the pc 18:07:58 <wouter> but I'm not the expert here 18:08:08 <pollo> I also agree the PC is the main suspect 18:08:09 <ivodd> because we tried with another mixer we borrowed, and that didn't fix it 18:08:20 <RattusRattus> it will almost certainly be the PC (not having a floating PSU) 18:08:28 <wouter> #info the PC is the main suspect 18:08:34 <ivodd> (also please not that it's nice to have a friendly AV rental company in the same building as the venue) 18:08:39 <wouter> so how do we fix that? 18:08:40 <pollo> olasd: can we action you to replace the PSU ? 18:09:01 <ivodd> well, we should try with a different pc first, to confir 18:09:02 <ivodd> m 18:09:05 <RattusRattus> no replacing PSU will not fix 18:09:12 <RattusRattus> PC PSUs are NOT issolated 18:09:29 <RattusRattus> issolation transformer may help 18:09:32 <wouter> RattusRattus: what would you suggest then? 18:09:37 <RattusRattus> ^^ 18:09:48 <wouter> perhaps a UPS could help, too? 18:09:59 <olasd> (I'm not shipping either of these things) 18:10:15 <RattusRattus> no we shouldn't 18:10:16 <wouter> (and as a bonus, it would also protect us against someone tripping over cables) 18:10:25 <RattusRattus> we didn't have this problem with the Cube PC did we? 18:10:27 <wouter> olasd: mm, I imagine that might be pretty expensive, yes 18:10:36 <wouter> RattusRattus: didn't that one use a lot less power? 18:10:48 <paddatrapper> sorry I'm late 18:10:49 <RattusRattus> wouter: no idea 18:11:01 <ivodd> olasd: can confirm, but I think it's the same motherboard in a different case 18:11:06 <olasd> the guts are identical, only the case changed 18:11:13 <RattusRattus> and PSU? 18:11:18 <RattusRattus> same? 18:11:22 <pollo> yes 18:11:23 <olasd> well, yes 18:11:58 * RattusRattus will think. 18:12:09 <RattusRattus> #action RattusRattus earth loops and PCs 18:12:10 <olasd> there's a non-zero chance that the motherboard isn't properly grounded to the case 18:12:17 <olasd> might have used the wrong screws 18:12:32 <DLange> IIRC we covered the earth on the PC power plug and that fixed it (Tobi would know for sure) 18:12:43 <olasd> yeah 18:12:45 <RattusRattus> covered? 18:12:50 <DLange> Gaffer 18:12:56 <wouter> so that it wouldn't make contact anymore? 18:12:59 <ivodd> no, disconnecting the mixer (not the pc) from earth fixed it 18:13:07 <RattusRattus> right so lifted it. that makes sence 18:13:16 <paddatrapper> wouter: yes 18:13:22 <RattusRattus> 0V should not be mains earth 18:13:23 <ivodd> but obviously we didn't keep the setup like that 18:13:36 <pollo> #info there's a non-zero chance that the motherboard isn't properly grounded to the case (wrong screws?) 18:13:44 <RattusRattus> it should be the same potential and (possibly) common only at 1 point 18:13:47 <pollo> I don't think we'll get farther than this for now 18:14:08 <ivodd> the other big issue is the audio desync 18:14:09 <pollo> if someone has something else to add on the confs (that's not about the ground loop), please go ahead 18:14:12 <RattusRattus> chances are the mother board is 0V and should NOT be connected to the case (mains earth) 18:14:12 <olasd> ivodd: lifting the pc or the mixing desk would have the same effect (as the cameras have a double isolated power supply with no earth) 18:14:26 <ivodd> olasd: we tried lifting the pc, it didn't help 18:14:36 <olasd> ivodd: huh. interesting 18:14:42 <DLange> I'd look at the mixer though ... easier to fix than a PC PSU, these are hard to get circuit separated 18:15:00 <ivodd> even with everything (network, screen, etc) disconnected from the pc 18:15:01 <RattusRattus> DLange: aparently differant mixer was tried 18:15:04 <DLange> I don't know where the Gaffer fixed it, I just know it did :) 18:15:16 <olasd> anyway, yeah, the A/V desync issue still happens 18:15:29 * RattusRattus will take earth loop as a primary task during debconf 18:15:31 <olasd> and we still don't really understand how 18:15:42 <pollo> could someone ask CCC VOC if that also happens to them? 18:15:58 <RattusRattus> A/V desync issue? please describe 18:16:05 <wouter> olasd: almost forgot, but FOSDEM had issues with that as well, and it *might* actually just be a bug in SReview... sorry :) 18:16:22 <wouter> can you confirm if the issue exists with the original raw files, too? 18:16:28 <olasd> it does 18:16:37 <wouter> okay, *phew*, then it's probably not me :) 18:16:42 <olasd> it's also noticeable in the voctomix gui 18:16:53 <paddatrapper> RattusRattus:audio led audio by a significant time after the stream was running for a while 18:16:58 <olasd> (if people actually listen to that) 18:16:58 <wouter> okay 18:17:21 <paddatrapper> restarting the voctomix PC fixed the issue 18:17:21 <RattusRattus> audio led audio? audio led video perhaps? 18:17:25 <pollo> yes 18:17:43 <paddatrapper> RattusRattus: yes, that one... 18:17:52 <pollo> could someone ask CCC VOC if that also happens to them? I think it would be a good way forward 18:18:15 <wouter> how much time, and how much lead? 18:18:26 <pollo> a few secs 18:18:30 <RattusRattus> ok again this is somthing to test with a camera and voctomix PC. 18:18:32 <tumbleweed> they've certainly looked into issues like this in the past 18:18:52 <pollo> tumbleweed: do you know if they found the cause or had a fix? 18:18:53 <tumbleweed> CarlFK has had test-jigs to demonstrate desync issues in the past, too 18:18:58 <olasd> maybe https://github.com/voc/voctomix/issues/58 18:18:59 <RattusRattus> almost certainly voctomix buffer paths 18:19:07 <tumbleweed> pollo: desync issues have been fixed in the past 18:19:20 <paddatrapper> or BlackMagic cards 18:19:21 <tumbleweed> and possibly regressions created, if you got new issues in hamburg :P 18:19:48 <pollo> "As far as i read the communication, there are no inter-elements in voc2mix, so this is probably not applicable anymore." 18:19:58 <pollo> so the fix on that bug issue seems to be "use voctomix 2" 18:20:22 <RattusRattus> eeek! 18:20:49 <pollo> #info we've been have audio desync issues and it might be related to https://github.com/voc/voctomix/issues/58 18:21:00 <pollo> I don't think we'll fix that today either :D 18:21:02 <olasd> sounds like an exciting project for not-this-conference 18:21:15 <wouter> it's good to have a suspect though 18:21:18 <pollo> anything to add to this topic before we move on? 18:21:25 <wouter> someone might want to experiment a bit during debcamp 18:21:28 <wouter> (if there's time) 18:21:35 <paddatrapper> I'm happy to take a look 18:21:57 <pollo> #topic DC19 - PC & server rental 18:22:23 <pollo> so I haven't seen a quote for the PCs we need 18:22:26 <pollo> but we have one for a server 18:22:28 <wouter> phls: I agree with tumbleweed on the disks -- it's probably better to have 6x2TB rather than 1x10TB 18:22:51 <wouter> some of the stuff might need to be translated a bit more though 18:22:53 <pollo> the specs proposed are: 18:22:54 <pollo> 1 Servidor Dell Power Edge R620 com 2 Processadores Xeon Six Core 2.0GHz 18:22:55 <wouter> what is a "Perc Array"? 18:22:56 <pollo> 32GB RAM 18:22:58 <pollo> 1 x Perc Array 18:23:01 <pollo> 6 x 2TB SATA Hot Plug (we are treying to change for 1 x 10TB) 18:23:03 <pollo> 6x2 sounds fine too me. 18:23:04 <pollo> 4 x 10/100/1000 18:23:07 <tumbleweed> perc is a dell hw raid 18:23:07 <olasd> wouter: a raid controller 18:23:14 <wouter> oh right 18:23:22 <tumbleweed> they're not bad 18:23:23 <olasd> white label lsi crap 18:23:28 <tumbleweed> heh 18:23:32 <wouter> lsi isn't too bad 18:23:39 <tumbleweed> configurable through linux, via non-free debs 18:23:42 <wouter> you could run them in JBOD mode and then do ZFS on top 18:23:47 <pollo> I think those specs are OK for our needs 18:23:52 <tumbleweed> or mdadm 18:23:55 <phls> wouter, actually lenharo is deal with pcs 18:23:58 <wouter> or that 18:23:58 <olasd> sorry I might be projecting my opinion of megacli :P 18:24:13 <wouter> is this server for live streaming or for transcoding? 18:24:16 <wouter> or for both? ;-) 18:24:18 <tumbleweed> I think this is for storage 18:24:21 <tumbleweed> and possibly transcoding? 18:24:28 <pollo> for everything 18:24:35 <pollo> I don't think we'll get another server onsite 18:24:36 <olasd> storage and streaming backend (so downscaling, not the primary stream encode) 18:24:39 <tumbleweed> I'm very hestitent to have everything on one machine 18:24:43 <wouter> yeah, me too 18:24:50 <wouter> we had some bad experience with that during dc17 18:25:17 <RattusRattus> I'm very hestitent to have everything on one machine 18:25:19 <tumbleweed> I have the machine we bought onsite at dc18 as a router, than I can bring 18:25:34 <olasd> however many machines we have someone is going to DoS the wrong one at the wrong time 18:25:36 <RattusRattus> ^^ didn't we say that a big enough machine running several VMs would be ok? 18:25:37 <tumbleweed> (assuming we don't need a router) 18:25:42 <pollo> tumbleweed: brazil customs might make some trouble 18:25:50 <tumbleweed> RattusRattus: ish, but that's hardly a crazy big machine 18:25:57 <wouter> olasd: I personally think we should have the live streams separate from everything else 18:26:18 * RattusRattus also preferat boxes for seporate tasks... 18:26:19 <wouter> because you don't want to kill the live streams by accidentally doing something wrong 18:26:22 <olasd> we don't need the live streams to be on site at all 18:26:25 <phls> if machine is under U$ 500, is ok bring it 18:26:44 <wouter> there is that 18:27:07 <RattusRattus> olasd: not true - if people are watching talks from hack labs etc 18:27:21 <pollo> so are we fine with the dc18 router PC + the rented server, ? 18:27:24 <RattusRattus> ^ depends on bw to / from sites 18:27:26 <wouter> (unless of course you don't have the bandwidth to push 720p, but then...) 18:28:17 <olasd> RattusRattus: the streaming backend still doesn't need to be on-site 18:28:41 <tumbleweed> olasd: it's probably a good idea, though 18:28:55 <tumbleweed> but yes, we do have some flexibility there 18:28:55 <RattusRattus> olasd: assuming there is enough bw that people watching ON site don't collapse the outgoing feed I agree 18:29:31 <RattusRattus> olasd: but nothing a bit of traffic shaping can't fix 18:29:45 <tumbleweed> which means we need a machine to shape traffic :P 18:29:48 <wouter> what kind of bandwidth will there be? 18:30:17 <RattusRattus> tumbleweed: well the router PC *shoud* do that for us right:-) 18:30:24 <RattusRattus> should even! 18:30:31 <wouter> also, isn't that something the network team can take care o? 18:30:34 <tumbleweed> depensd what we're using it for 18:30:36 <wouter> *of 18:30:39 <olasd> wouter: what network team? 18:30:48 <wouter> ehh 18:30:51 <paddatrapper> at this point, we're the network team! 18:30:56 <wouter> well, I was assuming there'd be one, but meh, okay 18:30:57 <tumbleweed> (as usual) 18:31:08 <pollo> so from that I understand, dc18 router PC + the rented server doens't make us happy 18:31:19 <RattusRattus> at the very least we should ensure that outbound stream feeds and incomming acks for said feeds is reserved bw on the router 18:31:27 <pollo> so we want another server machine 18:31:28 <tumbleweed> pollo: part of the issue here is that there are a lot of unknowns 18:31:40 <tumbleweed> pollo: and machines are like duct-tape, you use them to solve unexpected problems 18:31:44 <pollo> yes, but if the local team needs to find something else, they need to know 18:31:47 <phls> i haven't contact with network team 18:32:24 <pollo> phls: you looked for server rental. How expansive was that quote? 18:32:30 <pollo> could you get 2 of them instead? 18:32:37 <phls> lenharo, ? 18:32:42 <olasd> fwiw, there's no point having a server if we don't have PCs to put the capture cards in 18:32:59 <olasd> I'm more worried about that than anything else 18:33:02 <tumbleweed> olasd: fair point 18:33:04 <RattusRattus> olasd: +1 18:33:11 <ivodd> I added a link to the detailed quote (which also has PCs) 18:33:12 <wouter> we only need one server with loads of storage, really 18:33:29 <wouter> everything else can just be (powerful) desktop machines 18:33:42 <tumbleweed> yep 18:33:44 <wouter> so we really don't need two servers, but we need 5-10 desktops 18:33:55 <wouter> (handwavy number there) 18:34:02 * olasd checks ivodd's link 18:34:05 <tumbleweed> problem is we don't have a source to borrow from 18:34:21 <wouter> one for each room, one for the live streams, one for routing, plus a few spares 18:34:45 * RattusRattus did this work at FOSDEM sprint 18:35:02 <RattusRattus> what has changed that we are saking for somthing differant now 18:35:09 <RattusRattus> (at this late stage) 18:35:58 <phls> we can't find i7 to borrow 18:36:26 <wouter> so the server rental is 3330 BRL, which is about 770 EUR 18:36:42 <RattusRattus> ok - but the SPEC hasn't changed... 18:36:43 <wouter> (or 865 USD) 18:37:05 <wouter> phls: would the company that is renting you the server also rent out desktops? 18:37:14 <wouter> phls: alternatively, you can do the same trick that FOSDEM does: 18:37:15 <ivodd> wouter: that's for the server + 4 i7 desktop + 2 i3 desktop 18:37:17 <pollo> phls: https://salsa.debian.org/debconf-team/public/data/dc19/uploads/4e702e4d90a0c7adda2a4f8f95023fa9/ICTL_281418_ATUALIZADA.pdf also has a quote for i7 18:37:18 <olasd> they do, it's in the quote. 18:37:26 <lenharo_> 3330 BRL is to rent server R620 + 6 computers (4 I7 and 2 i3) 18:37:27 <pollo> so it seems we do have PCs 18:37:33 <wouter> ah, oops, missed that :) 18:37:35 <pollo> the network cards seem to be 10/100 though? 18:37:41 <olasd> I'm really dubious about the specs 18:38:00 <phls> these i3 are for hotel network, not for video team :-) 18:38:05 <olasd> "i7 2 GHz" sounds really really really low end 18:38:08 <DLange> can't we just borrow a few of the PCs standing around in "our" rooms anyways ... https://salsa.debian.org/debconf-team/public/share/debconf19/blob/master/photos/organization/utfpr/utfpr-lab-B108/utfpr-lab-B108-02.jpg ? 18:38:09 <wouter> anyway, the FOSDEM trick is to not rent, but buy old Lenovo X series laptops on ebay 18:38:10 <lenharo_> i have asked and they say that have 10/100/1000 network card. I have to check 18:38:11 <phls> so, R620 + 4x i7 18:38:17 <wouter> and then after the conference, sell them at cost 18:38:36 <olasd> wouter: if you can fit our capture cards in lenovo x series laptops, go right ahead 18:38:45 <wouter> ah yes 18:38:48 * wouter slaps $SELF 18:38:52 <wouter> sorry, didn't think of that bit 18:39:02 <olasd> :) 18:39:21 <wouter> is 4 i7s enough though? 18:39:36 <paddatrapper> it would leave us no spares or dev boxes 18:39:44 <wouter> that's my point 18:39:51 <pollo> 2Ghz i7s sounds like a mobile chip 18:39:54 <wouter> there's the two i3s, but I suspect those are for other purposes? 18:39:55 <tumbleweed> so, the question is: are those 6 desktops sufficient? 18:40:03 <tumbleweed> are all of them for the video team? 18:40:07 <pollo> tumbleweed: 4, the i3s are not for us 18:40:22 <tumbleweed> OK, then I'd say we should pad that out with a few more 18:40:29 <wouter> +1 18:40:30 <phls> wouter, i3 are for other purposes 18:40:34 <tumbleweed> we know we can alway use more 18:40:38 <paddatrapper> tumbleweed: 3x vocto, 1x gateway? 18:40:43 <phls> just i7 now are for video team 18:40:52 <tumbleweed> paddatrapper: that leaves 0 spare 18:40:59 <wouter> paddatrapper: plus something for the live stream, and spares 18:41:15 <paddatrapper> tumbleweed: exactly,I was talking about the existig 4 18:41:16 <tumbleweed> phls: I'd add at least 2 more. i3/i7 - I don't really care too much but i7 doesn't hurt 18:41:18 <paddatrapper> existing too 18:41:55 <pollo> ok, so to move forward: 18:41:55 <ivodd> the rent is 60 US$ for each i7, so adding a few shouldn't be an issue 18:41:56 <pollo> #agree we wan't a least 2 more i7 (6 instead of 4) and want another server 18:42:02 <phls> tumbleweed, ok, we quoted 4x i7 + 1x server because pollo had asked this number 18:42:06 <olasd> do we want another server ? 18:42:09 <wouter> pollo: eh, why do we want another server? 18:42:12 <tumbleweed> I don't think so, no 18:42:23 <pollo> really, that's what I had understoods, sorry 18:42:26 <pollo> #undo 18:42:26 <MeetBot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Agreed object at 0x1375290> 18:42:32 <RattusRattus> just the 2 extra i7s for my money 18:42:41 <wouter> yeah, that's what I thought we were talking about 18:42:44 <pollo> #agree we wan't a least 2 more i7 (6 instead of 4) (and more if possible) 18:42:51 <phls> is R620 newer than R710? :-) 18:43:04 <wouter> yeah, I was wondering about that too, doesn't look like it to me 18:43:05 <ivodd> highvoltage: yes R620 is newer than R710 18:43:10 <wouter> but Dell might be weird :) 18:43:10 <pollo> can we move forward? we still have to talk about audio 18:43:14 <wouter> sure 18:43:17 <olasd> just one last thing 18:43:20 <ivodd> R620 is the 1U variant of R720, which is newer than R710 18:43:31 <olasd> it'd be good to have the *full* specs of the machines ASAP 18:43:32 <phls> we have to check if these i7 has 2 slots PCI-E x1 slot? or 3? 18:43:49 <tumbleweed> phls: 2 slots 18:43:53 <pollo> phls: we _need_ 2 but 3 is better 18:43:57 <pollo> since we have the serial cards 18:44:09 <tumbleweed> ah, forgot about that 18:44:12 <phls> ok 18:44:42 <ivodd> also, is 28/7 ok as a return date for the server? 18:44:59 <tumbleweed> A few extra days is usually a good idea 18:45:02 <ivodd> that leaves very little time to make sure everything is done 18:45:09 <phls> sure, np 18:45:18 <phls> 28 is sunday 18:45:27 <ivodd> could someone follow up on the changes to the quote in the next few dates? 18:45:32 <ivodd> s/dates/days 18:46:01 <phls> ah, is the server ok? 18:46:06 <pollo> ivodd: can you do that? 18:46:10 <olasd> if someone can go to the rental company with a debian live usbstick and get the output of dmidecode / lspci for the i7s it'd be great 18:46:13 <phls> just change to 1x 10TB? 18:46:16 <ivodd> pollo: no 18:46:23 <tumbleweed> phls: why do we want 1x10TB? 18:46:24 <olasd> phls: 6 x 2TB is just fine 18:46:30 <wouter> phls: no, we don't need a 10TB disk 18:46:31 <tumbleweed> I'd rather have the redundancy of 6x2 18:46:34 <wouter> me too 18:46:36 <olasd> way better than 1 x 10TB 18:46:37 <paddatrapper> ivodd: I will 18:46:51 <ivodd> paddatrapper: thanks! 18:47:00 <pollo> #action paddatrapper to follow up with phls about the pc + server rental + full hw specs 18:47:03 <phls> the request was 1x 10TB. I am confirming if must be 1x 10Tb 18:47:22 <tumbleweed> no 18:47:25 <phls> but ok i got now 18:47:25 <wouter> we need 10TB storage after RAID, but we want redundancy 18:47:26 <olasd> then no, the current proposal for 6x2 is fine 18:47:29 <olasd> :) 18:47:34 <phls> ok 18:47:35 <pollo> I think we can move on now 18:47:38 <olasd> let's 18:47:41 <wouter> yeah 18:47:50 <pollo> #topic DC19 - Audio rental 18:48:25 <phls> so, I got 2 quotes 18:48:41 <phls> one with all, and one missing equips 18:49:35 <RattusRattus> the beringer RX1202FX 18:49:38 <phls> as I explained to some of you before, its hard get rent quotes here. For a lot of reasons 18:49:38 <paddatrapper> the Behringer RX1202FX will not work for us 18:49:39 <RattusRattus> NOT SUITABLE 18:49:48 <paddatrapper> heh jinx 18:50:16 <phls> paddatrapper, why? just to know 18:50:23 <paddatrapper> We also need 2x Behinger DI100 per room (so 6 in total) as they are mono 18:50:23 <RattusRattus> not got sliders 18:50:34 <wouter> yeah, we definitely need those :) 18:50:37 <pollo> we need 3 mixers anyway 18:50:40 <phls> paddatrapper, the request was 3, one per room 18:50:46 <RattusRattus> pollo: 2 mixers at venue already 18:50:51 <pollo> ah sorry 18:50:54 <paddatrapper> we need sliders and desk-top, not rack mount 18:51:09 <paddatrapper> phls: 3x stereo, or 6x mono 18:51:43 <RattusRattus> on your buy list (not that we want to buy) the Yamaha MG12XUK is also not a suitable mixer (same reason) 18:52:04 <phls> paddatrapper, about RX1202FX could yot explain me why is not ok (I have to explain to them) 18:52:30 <paddatrapper> phls: we need desk-top mixers with sliders, not rackmount with no sliders 18:52:31 <wouter> phls: the RX1202FX does not have sliders to correct individual channel volumes 18:52:32 <RattusRattus> phls: we need sliders not knobs for each channel 18:53:11 <tumbleweed> RattusRattus: it looks like it has sliders 18:53:26 <wouter> tumbleweed: no -- https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/RX1202FX--behringer-eurorack-pro-rx1202fx-rackmount-mixer-with-effects 18:53:29 <tumbleweed> (between the knobs, which is eww) 18:53:41 <RattusRattus> https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=Yamaha+MG12XUK 18:53:56 <paddatrapper> also no submix/aux bus 18:53:59 <olasd> wouter: I see sliders on this picture 18:54:08 <wouter> oh yes, indeed 18:54:08 <tumbleweed> missing submix is a problem 18:54:08 <wouter> ugly 18:54:13 <tumbleweed> rackmount is annoying 18:54:16 <paddatrapper> tumbleweed: you're right, missed them 18:55:01 <wouter> anyway, phls: RattusRattus' link shows a mixing console that is similar to what we need 18:55:15 <paddatrapper> phls: we need submix (the ability to route some channels to a submix that is a separate output from the main out) 18:55:16 <wouter> (doesn't have to be that one, but one that has the same functionality) 18:55:19 <phls> and the MG12XU? 18:55:27 <RattusRattus> wouter: NO that link was for the NOT suitable yamaha mixer (no sliders) 18:55:34 <tumbleweed> err the MG12XUK does not have sliders 18:55:37 <wouter> oh? 18:55:56 <wouter> ah yes, sorry, bad resolution here 18:56:05 <RattusRattus> It would be suitable for us but would really throw new volenteers 18:56:29 <phls> and Soundcraft signature12 ? 18:56:36 <RattusRattus> Soundcraft signature12 is great mixer 18:56:37 <wouter> ah, eh, actually, the photos that I see don't have the XUK one, only the XU 18:56:40 <wouter> which does have sliders 18:56:41 <wouter> hence my confusion :) 18:56:42 <paddatrapper> The MG12XU has sliders 18:56:59 <phls> ok, lets split. First, the mixer 18:57:00 <wouter> yup 18:57:19 <phls> the 2 mixers for rent are not good of us? 18:57:35 <paddatrapper> no 18:57:53 <wouter> phls: the MG12XU is fine 18:58:00 <wouter> the MG12XUK is not, but that's not in the quote 18:58:09 <wouter> the Behringer is not fine 18:58:12 <phls> ok. If I can't find other model, can we buy Soundcraft signature12? 18:58:47 <RattusRattus> ??? STOP please 18:59:11 <RattusRattus> 1/ storm list HAS Yamaha MG12XUK NOT Yamaha MG12XU 18:59:29 <RattusRattus> 1x Mixer: Behringer RX1202FX IS NOT SUITABLE 18:59:32 <wouter> RattusRattus: no, it has XU here 18:59:52 <wouter> unless someone changed things, the quote says MG12XU 19:00:02 <paddatrapper> phls: which was the original quote for? 19:00:19 <RattusRattus> ok yes. buy has XUK rent has XU 19:00:20 <phls> checking 19:00:29 <RattusRattus> that is an important differance 19:00:37 <wouter> yes, indeed 19:00:42 <RattusRattus> but we don't want to buy anything do we? 19:00:45 <phls> MG12XU 19:00:55 <wouter> phls: that one is fine 19:01:10 <paddatrapper> RattusRattus: ideally, no 19:01:25 <RattusRattus> ok MG12XU would be fine 19:01:30 <phls> is MG12XU ok? 19:01:34 <RattusRattus> yes 19:01:35 <paddatrapper> phls: yes 19:01:36 <wouter> phls: yes 19:01:39 <phls> ok :-) 19:01:50 <phls> now, DI box. I have 2 models 19:01:56 <RattusRattus> phew - sorry too many things at once I was struggling to keep up 19:02:27 <phls> DI20 and DI100 19:02:36 <paddatrapper> The behringer DI100 are mono, so we need 6 19:02:45 <paddatrapper> the DI20 are stereo, so only need 3 19:02:46 <wouter> RattusRattus: ah, yes, I missed the XUK in the "buy" quote, sorry 19:02:49 <phls> and DI20? 19:02:52 <RattusRattus> DI-20 we would need 3 DI-100 we would need 6 19:03:00 <phls> ok 3x DI20 19:03:21 <phls> now, mics 19:03:38 <phls> Shure BLX4 J10 and Shure BLX4 M15 are ok? 19:04:10 <olasd> that's missing the specification for the microphones themselves 19:04:29 <olasd> (i.e. this is only the reciever type and frequency band) 19:04:40 <phls> humm 19:04:43 <paddatrapper> The J10 and M15 are the mic models 19:04:48 <olasd> they are? 19:04:57 <RattusRattus> both are fine assiming that they are the correct radio freq. for brazil 19:05:28 <phls> yes 19:05:33 * paddatrapper tries to navigate the sure website... 19:05:39 <wouter> https://shop-us.shure.com/p/blx4-j10 shows only a pic of the receiver 19:05:42 <RattusRattus> https://www.gear4music.com/PA-DJ-and-Lighting/Shure-BLX4E-S8-Wireless-Receiver/27I1?origin=product-ads&utm_campaign=PLA+Shop+-+Shure&utm_medium=vertical_search&network=google&adgroup=2+-+Brand+Level+-+Shure&merchant_id=1279443&product_id=103033d1&product_country=GB&product_partition_id=84412766959&gclid=Cj0KCQjwl6LoBRDqARIsABllMSbkj5zNXEr3deBY0FNbu-J5ZhsWHIS19fz-9dNeE_zFPh5ITva9qhIaAl-KEALw_wcB 19:05:45 <olasd> paddatrapper: I'm certain that J10 and M15 are frequency bands 19:05:46 <wouter> are we sure of that? 19:06:33 <paddatrapper> olasd: sorry, you are right 19:06:46 <paddatrapper> phls: we need the mic models 19:07:08 <phls> ok, the other company has: Shure PGX - PG30 and Shure PGX - SM58 19:07:11 <paddatrapper> j10 = 584-600MHz 19:07:20 <olasd> SM58 is what we have 19:07:27 <olasd> (handheld microphones) 19:07:40 <paddatrapper> phls: the PG30 are OK, but not great 19:07:55 <olasd> PG30 will be, yeah, acceptable 19:08:00 <RattusRattus> the shure BLX range is a suitable product - is it safe to assume that if hired in brazil for use in brazil then they will supply us with the correct frequancy band veraint of the blx? 19:08:12 <phls> yes 19:08:21 <wouter> I would think so... 19:08:24 <RattusRattus> SM58 is nice 19:08:25 <phls> they work here 19:08:32 <p2-mate> yeah, SM58 is good 19:08:53 <RattusRattus> SM58 is default vocal mic for *everything* 19:09:00 <phls> if I looking for a better model to head, what should I looking for? 19:09:06 <p2-mate> indeed.. 19:09:55 <paddatrapper> phls: I'll find a model and send it to you 19:10:06 <phls> paddatrapper, cool 19:10:11 <pollo> #action paddatrapper to validate the new audio list quote done by phls 19:10:29 <phls> so, the Omni-Direcional: one company has Behringer C3 19:10:32 <phls> is it ok? 19:11:20 <RattusRattus> it will do 19:11:23 <paddatrapper> phls: yes, C3 is find 19:11:26 <paddatrapper> fine 19:11:41 <wouter> the omnis aren't the most crucial mics, anyway :) 19:12:05 <phls> I had asked, but i didn't get an aswer. Does video team has omnis to bring? 19:12:23 <olasd> we have four 19:12:26 <paddatrapper> phls: MX158 headworn mic is perfect or Beta54 19:12:27 <phls> I saw 2 in Hamburg 19:12:29 <RattusRattus> olasd: ^^ the ones we have are small.... 19:12:34 <olasd> they are 19:12:49 <RattusRattus> feel like smuggling them in your baggage? 19:13:02 <ivodd> well, they can go in one of the boxes (and on the list for customs) 19:13:06 <olasd> I won't smuggle anything, I'll do temporary import paperwork like everything else 19:13:11 <RattusRattus> :-) 19:13:15 <phls> don't worry, if thy are < U$ 500, you can bring them 19:13:32 <ivodd> didn't we put the onmi's in the box with the old camera's? we could put them in the new camera boxes 19:13:33 <wouter> phls: olasd is likely to bring a lot of stuff ;) 19:13:50 <phls> so, we need just 2 omnis? 19:14:25 <RattusRattus> 2 per ROOM 19:14:28 <olasd> please rent 6 if you can, it's not going to make a huge difference to the bottom line 19:14:39 <wouter> RattusRattus: yes, but we just said we own four 19:14:43 <wouter> so that plus two is six 19:14:46 <phls> olasd, not for the price, but to find them for rent here 19:14:46 <paddatrapper> if you can find 2, you'll be able to find 6 19:15:03 <phls> paddatrapper, not true 19:15:15 <phls> you insist tell me this 19:15:16 <RattusRattus> SM58s would work fine in this role as well and EVERY PA hire co will have them 19:15:58 <phls> BTW, venue has wired mic, they can be used as "ominis"? 19:16:09 <RattusRattus> yes just seen that - 19:16:15 <wouter> that might work too 19:16:19 <phls> ok 19:16:23 <wouter> anything else about audio? 19:16:24 <RattusRattus> DECISION lets use 6 of venue's SM58 as omni mics 19:16:31 <paddatrapper> sounds good 19:17:08 <phls> so, the Tripod Manfroto 501HDV are ok? 19:17:30 <RattusRattus> yes they are fine 19:17:38 <wouter> anything manfroto is fine :) 19:17:39 <RattusRattus> very nice tripods 19:17:54 <phls> cool :-) 19:18:13 <phls> do you have a photo to Microphone clip?? :-) 19:18:42 <paddatrapper> phls: they're for the omni's, so just need standard SM58 mic clips now 19:18:59 <phls> ah nic 19:19:01 <phls> nice 19:19:08 <phls> thats all 19:19:22 <paddatrapper> https://www.pssl.com/images/ProdImage01/1500/MP-MIC-CLIP.jpg 19:19:23 <phls> I will review and talk with the suppliers to know about the mics 19:19:24 <RattusRattus> and I assume that we can use the venuse's MIC stands for that as well 19:19:36 <wouter> I would hope so :) 19:19:36 <phls> RattusRattus, yes 19:19:48 <phls> they have MIC stands 19:19:57 <RattusRattus> ack 19:20:11 <wouter> can we move on then? getting hungry here ;-) 19:20:26 <phls> i wil try rent all from the same supplier, but maybe we have to get from two 19:20:32 <pollo> how are people feeling? Should we adjurn and set another meeting date or go on? 19:20:37 <pollo> I'm kinda tired 19:21:03 <RattusRattus> happy either way 19:21:06 <wouter> I can continue if necessary, but wouldn't complain about adjourning for now 19:21:23 <olasd> phls: two suppliers is fine; basically renting the GIGA stuff (pending confirmation on the microphone models) + tripods from the other supplier would be fine 19:21:31 <olasd> (IMO) 19:21:36 <paddatrapper> I am tired, though also happy to continue if needed 19:21:40 <phls> olasd, ok 19:21:53 <pollo> let,s promise to keep chatter down and power through 19:22:02 <phls> I think its important talk about - DC19 - Remote speakers 19:22:02 <wouter> the other two points are fairly small though, I'd suggest to just get it over with 19:22:15 <pollo> #topic DC19 - Remote speakers 19:22:17 <phls> because content team depends of this 19:22:27 <pollo> Terceiro says one of the speakers want to do a remote presentation. Do we want to do that? 19:22:34 <olasd> who is it? 19:22:40 <pollo> does it matter? 19:22:45 <olasd> yes 19:22:48 <wouter> it might, yes 19:22:55 <RattusRattus> interactive presentation - NO 19:22:55 <terceiro> Ben Hutchings. He just asked, and I relayed the query 19:22:56 <olasd> we can get a sense of how much they would be willing to work with us 19:23:03 <terceiro> TBH I don't expect you to do this 19:23:06 <RattusRattus> single ended with IRC questions - yes 19:23:15 <pollo> ^^ that's what I'm proposing 19:23:24 <pollo> but I won,t be there 19:23:29 <pollo> so it's up to you folks 19:23:38 <terceiro> if you are willing to do it, then I can also propose to other speaker who had to cancel his trip 19:23:41 <phls> calling to Giga... 19:23:42 <wouter> Ben used to be in the video team too, so I think he would not ask us unnecessary things 19:24:13 <wouter> but yeah, it's going to be complicated 19:24:21 <RattusRattus> OK but we need to confirm that we can get his stream working during debcamp.... 19:24:53 <wouter> yes, indeed 19:25:02 <terceiro> I would expect he to be willing to do some previous prep work on his side 19:25:04 <wouter> so I'd say "probably" for now, pending tests during debcamp? 19:25:07 * RattusRattus wonders how easy it is to just run a video chat client on the voctomix PC 19:25:24 <wouter> actually, that's not a bad idea 19:25:28 <olasd> or anyone's laptop 19:25:29 <terceiro> I would need to know now if I can add it to the schedule 19:25:37 <wouter> someone runs a video chat program on a laptop 19:25:46 <wouter> we capture that as though it's a slides thing 19:25:51 <wouter> and run the audio into the mixer 19:25:52 <pollo> or on the turbot 19:25:53 <RattusRattus> terceiro: put it in the schedule - we can always pull it if it doesn't work 19:25:57 <wouter> there's your talk 19:26:25 <wouter> jitsi works pretty well, is free software, and only requires a web browser 19:26:28 <pollo> so, does anyone disagree with single-ended stream + IRC questions ? 19:26:33 <RattusRattus> wouter: ack - that would work. 19:26:36 <wouter> I think that's fine? 19:26:38 <olasd> it really doesn't sound like a *hard* technical challenge, and I feel Ben is a good guinea pig 19:26:47 <wouter> olasd: indeed 19:26:52 <terceiro> so only him then? :-) 19:26:59 <wouter> terceiro: for now 19:27:04 <RattusRattus> and I guess wookey if he insists as well 19:27:12 <wouter> terceiro: if it works well, we can make it a standard thing 19:27:17 <terceiro> sounds good 19:27:22 <olasd> great 19:27:24 <wouter> let's call Ben's talk an "experiment" 19:27:33 <pollo> #agree we can do single-ended video streams + IRC questions for Ben Hutching's talk 19:27:34 * RattusRattus thinks we will need this and better for next year 19:27:43 <wouter> yeah 19:27:50 <pollo> #topic DC19 - Misc 19:27:55 <RattusRattus> but this is a good 1st step 19:28:10 <pollo> the only question I had in this topic is about shipping our gear 19:28:23 <pollo> to see if there is some blocker we should work on 19:28:39 <olasd> so when the admin drones validate my copy/paste of the debconf program on the website I should have plane tickets 19:29:27 <wouter> fwiw, I won't be at dc19 19:29:32 <wouter> I hope to make it to dc20 next year 19:29:34 <olasd> people should review the packing list 19:29:52 <wouter> but I can redo the dc18 trick where I configure SReview remotely 19:29:57 <RattusRattus> olasd: post me a link and I'll do that 19:30:08 <pollo> #info olasd will bring the gear with him 19:30:09 <olasd> RattusRattus: I believe you posted it on list originally 19:30:18 <olasd> I'll stick it on a pad 19:30:24 <olasd> and we can amend/extend 19:30:33 <RattusRattus> olasd: ye but I am assuming things have changed since 19:30:37 <pollo> #action olasd to send the gear list on the ML for review 19:30:52 <pollo> anything else to add in this topic 19:30:53 <pollo> ? 19:30:59 <olasd> I also only have 2 opsises and people keep assuming I have more 19:31:06 <olasd> people should stop doing that 19:31:15 <wouter> where are the other ones then? 19:31:25 <RattusRattus> I have one 19:31:26 <olasd> one with RattusRattus one with phls 19:31:32 <wouter> oh right 19:31:32 <RattusRattus> and will bring it 19:31:33 <olasd> and I think one with tumbleweed or paddatrapper 19:31:43 <paddatrapper> I don't have one anymore 19:32:02 <paddatrapper> it went back with highvoltage at some point 19:32:20 <wouter> well, we don't need all five, we can track it down at a later point ;) 19:32:28 <olasd> then one in nature somewhere :P 19:32:35 <wouter> hehe :) 19:32:46 <RattusRattus> if I don't need to bring it I won't (xs baggage charge if i do) 19:32:57 <phls> one is here 19:33:14 <wouter> that's three, should be enough 19:33:31 <pollo> we need 4 in case something happens 19:33:36 <olasd> RattusRattus: you don't have to bring it with the rackmount case 19:33:49 <RattusRattus> olasd: ack ok will carry 19:33:58 <paddatrapper> let's try track down the other one. May be easier to bring for whoever has it 19:34:11 <pollo> #info we'll have 2 opsis from France, 1 from Brazil and 1 spare from Rattus 19:34:11 <wouter> paddatrapper: yeah, but we don't need to do that now 19:34:12 <tumbleweed> sorry, on another call again. Catching up... 19:34:13 <olasd> well the advantage of the other one is the small case indeed 19:34:14 <RattusRattus> all done? 19:34:22 <tumbleweed> ah, yeah, can bring an opsis 19:34:30 <paddatrapper> wouter: true 19:34:33 <tumbleweed> and a netv2 19:34:35 <paddatrapper> and there it is :) 19:34:41 <wouter> well, that helps :) 19:34:49 <olasd> alright 19:34:56 <olasd> that's all for me 19:34:57 <pollo> sounds like we're done 19:35:15 <RattusRattus> add next week for a meeting (and go weekly from now till DC>) 19:35:17 <tumbleweed> RattusRattus: if you're bringing an opsis, I'll just bring the netv2 + router? 19:35:18 <pollo> I'll send a mail on the ML for the next meeting 19:35:23 <RattusRattus> tumbleweed: ack 19:35:43 <wouter> pollo: that works 19:35:48 <pollo> #endmeeting