18:03:21 <tumbleweed> #startmeeting DebConf16 planning 18:03:21 <MeetBot> Meeting started Tue Apr 5 18:03:21 2016 UTC. The chair is tumbleweed. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 18:03:21 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 18:03:30 <tumbleweed> Agenda: https://pad.riseup.net/p/videoteam-debconf 18:03:39 <CarlFK> here 18:03:45 <h01ger> thanks 18:04:19 <tumbleweed> are we happy with the order of the things in the agenda? 18:04:41 <tumbleweed> some things I'd flip: venue review & inventory before softawre stack 18:04:52 <tumbleweed> vienna mini-dc before shipping 18:05:02 <pollo> +1 18:05:30 <CarlFK> natty! semi-waves and hugs 18:05:32 <tumbleweed> OK, while that's happening 18:05:39 <tumbleweed> #topic Venue Review 18:05:44 <nattie> hey hey Carl! : 18:05:45 <nattie> :) 18:06:09 <tumbleweed> I wrote that section, so let me describe it a bit 18:06:32 <tumbleweed> we're hoping debconf will mostly be in two adjacent buildings 18:06:42 <tumbleweed> well, they're all we've booked 18:06:44 <tumbleweed> so it will be :P 18:07:05 <tumbleweed> there's a campus map linked from https://debconf16.debconf.org/about/debconf 18:07:58 <pollo> what are the building names? 18:08:01 <tumbleweed> https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf16/Venue 18:08:17 <tumbleweed> so, the main talks will be in Menzies 9 & 10 18:08:24 <tumbleweed> (I think) 18:08:55 <tumbleweed> everything else will be in snape 18:09:02 <tumbleweed> this is all in the top-left corner of the map 18:09:38 <pollo> would it be possible to put all the videoed rooms in the same building? 18:09:45 <tumbleweed> no 18:09:52 <tumbleweed> but the buildings are adjacent 18:09:56 <tumbleweed> connected, even 18:11:09 <tumbleweed> the menzies lecture theaters are on the top-left corner of menzies - just a flight of stairs away from snape 18:11:40 <pollo> will we be able to have a videoteam room somewhere near that? 18:12:26 <pollo> it's pretty usefull to gather people in time of need 18:12:40 <tumbleweed> we haven't actually booked anything for that. There are rooms in NEB that could be appropriate, but that's yet another building (across a courtyard from snape) 18:13:19 <wouter> there 18:13:24 <pollo> do you think you could ask someone from local team to look into it? 18:13:28 <tumbleweed> #action tumbleweed to ask ginngs about a video team room, near menzies 18:13:33 * wouter reads backlog 18:13:36 <pollo> :D 18:14:07 <tumbleweed> Move on? 18:14:12 <pollo> For the PAs, is there a sound board or do we need to plug in ours? 18:14:21 <tumbleweed> define "sound board" 18:14:36 <tumbleweed> there are PA systems, that I'm expecting to be able to plug into 18:14:44 <tumbleweed> if nothing else, via the mini-jack on the presenter's desk 18:14:48 <pollo> the thingy with all the dials we move up and down to manipulate the sound 18:14:52 <tumbleweed> a mixer 18:14:55 <pollo> that yes 18:15:16 <tumbleweed> no, we'll need our own (as always) 18:15:45 * pollo is good to move ahead 18:15:48 * wouter has caught up 18:16:01 <wouter> having balanced audio is preferable 18:16:11 <wouter> sometimes they may have it, but not by default 18:16:18 <tumbleweed> pollo: I'll be in CPT this time next month, I can do a proper site inspection of the PA system, then 18:16:19 <wouter> would be good to have someone local ask about that 18:16:25 <tumbleweed> or we can ask ginngs to do so in the meantime 18:16:27 <pollo> tumbleweed: +1 18:16:28 <wouter> tumbleweed: great :) 18:17:50 <wouter> #action tumbleweed to check PA when in CPT next month 18:18:24 <wouter> meanwhile, we should probably prepare for mini-TRS connectors if necessary 18:18:24 <tumbleweed> #topic What hardware do we need 18:18:44 <pollo> we said we wanted to keep the dv setup in case something goes wrong 18:18:50 <wouter> the HDMI2USB thingies still require a local laptop, right? 18:18:51 <pollo> so we need all the stuff in Paris 18:19:16 <tumbleweed> wouter: yes. There is an ethernet-streaming firmware project, but I don't think it's useable, yet 18:19:27 <wouter> okay, so we'll need three laptops per room then 18:19:38 <wouter> do we have that? 18:19:43 <tumbleweed> or 4 18:19:48 <wouter> why 4? 18:19:49 <tumbleweed> no, our laptops are a mess 18:19:55 <tumbleweed> 2 cameras, mixer, grabber 18:20:05 <pollo> even just for video? 18:20:10 <wouter> oh, in the BoF room? right 18:20:19 <wouter> er, no, silly me 18:20:29 <wouter> we can do mixer and camera on the same laptop, we've always done that 18:20:37 <tumbleweed> oh, right 18:20:39 <tumbleweed> yeah 18:21:16 <pollo> it would be nicer to have desktop PC for mixer if we want to test out the CCC mixing software 18:21:26 <wouter> so, what happened to the 9 X200-series laptops that we had in Heidelberg? 18:21:52 <tumbleweed> wouter: those were given away to good homes 18:22:03 <tumbleweed> also, we were actually relying on Sledge's x230s a lot 18:22:18 <wouter> right, so I think pollo's suggestion is probably a better idea then 18:22:25 <wouter> rent/borrow something locally in CPT? 18:22:31 <tumbleweed> yeah, I think we should try to hire 18:22:52 <pollo> isn't there a local sponsor who could lend us some stuff? 18:22:53 <tumbleweed> downside is, if we get dependant on hiring, we always have to hire 18:23:01 <tumbleweed> pollo: there isn't a single local sponsor, yet :( 18:23:02 <wouter> tumbleweed: not so 18:23:05 <tumbleweed> but we're working on that 18:23:16 <wouter> on the contrary, in fact 18:23:23 <tumbleweed> wouter: I mean, right now, we simply don't have enough laptops. We have to replenish / hire 18:23:53 <wouter> we could ask bdale if he can get HP to donate newer laptops 18:24:07 <tumbleweed> HP is now two companies, and he's not on the side that makes laptops 18:24:08 <wouter> we did get those from HP several years back (DC11 IIRC) 18:24:09 <tumbleweed> but yes 18:24:14 <wouter> ah, yes, didn't think of that part 18:24:16 <pollo> I heard someone who said Debian had a lot of money lying around, maybe we could actually _buy_ some stuff 18:24:20 <CarlFK> I have a friends odroid to see if it can be used as the graber host - it seems to have good usb and good eathernet, so need to see if the cpu can transcode mjpeg to dv 18:24:42 <CarlFK> I should have a good answer in a week 18:24:53 <tumbleweed> CarlFK: we need firewire capture as long as we have DV cameras 18:25:02 <CarlFK> tumbleweed: not for the grabber 18:25:05 <tumbleweed> yes 18:25:10 <tumbleweed> but 2/3s of the machines need it 18:25:19 <wouter> tumbleweed: we still do have 5 somewhat working laptops with builtin firewire 18:25:27 <CarlFK> if it works, that is two less laptops you need 18:25:34 <wouter> CarlFK: three 18:25:42 <wouter> (three rooms) 18:25:51 <CarlFK> even better 18:26:26 <wouter> I can definitely bring some firewire expresscards 18:26:27 <tumbleweed> highvoltage: would you be able to look into local hiring? 18:26:36 <tumbleweed> wouter: debconf now owns a ton of those :P 18:26:44 <wouter> tumbleweed: yes, but what happened to them? 18:26:52 <tumbleweed> they're in our boxes in paris 18:26:55 <wouter> I was going to look whether I had brought them home, but forgot 18:26:56 <wouter> ah, okay 18:26:59 <wouter> so we should bring those then 18:27:26 <wouter> tumbleweed: side note: the word you're looking for is "renting". "hiring" involves people ;-) 18:27:41 <tumbleweed> depends on your english dialect 18:27:51 <wouter> eh, possibly 18:28:22 <wouter> anyway, I'm also not convinced that all of those original five laptops are still in good working order 18:28:43 <wouter> I remember a number of issues with them last year 18:29:48 <wouter> so, I suggest we attempt to find 6 or so machines locally, three of which (at least) should have a firewire connection 18:30:07 <h01ger> hi, sorry, got a RL meeting too… 18:30:10 <tumbleweed> that sounds like a plan 18:30:21 <h01ger> now back for 5min or so, reading backlog 18:31:11 <wouter> http://rentware.co.za/ seems like a local company 18:32:03 <tumbleweed> we knew somebody in this business, but I haven't heard from him in years 18:32:16 <tumbleweed> (bisybackson, for highvoltage's benefit) 18:32:40 <wouter> desktops starting at R400 per week 18:32:45 <wouter> how much is that in euros or dollars? 18:33:01 <tumbleweed> wouter: 15 ZAR : 1 USD 18:33:13 <wouter> so 26USD 18:33:20 <pollo> that's pretty cheap 18:33:43 <tumbleweed> of course there may be a surcharge for blowing away the OS :P 18:33:52 <wouter> tumbleweed: not in my experience 18:33:53 <pollo> we could just swap hhd 18:33:56 <wouter> I've dealt with such companies before 18:34:13 <wouter> they tend to routinely wipe the hard disk after every rental 18:34:18 <wouter> so they don't care what you do with it 18:34:29 <wouter> in fact, they may be cheaper if we tell them that we don't want a windows on it 18:34:29 <tumbleweed> I should hope so, but I kind of suspect they don't 18:34:38 <wouter> because license and hourly rates 18:34:55 <tumbleweed> anyway, let's move on? 18:34:58 <pollo> i missed a part (spotty connection), but could we plug in firewire cards and not use laptops tnen? 18:35:04 <h01ger> https://www.uct.ac.za/images/uct.ac.za/contact/campusmaps/big/uctuppercampus.jpg - where are we? 18:35:07 <wouter> pollo: definitely 18:35:12 <pollo> cool, thx 18:35:21 <tumbleweed> h01ger: top left 18:35:34 <tumbleweed> pollo: the firewire cards we have are mini-pcie, not pcie 18:35:39 <tumbleweed> so we'd need to buy some 18:35:54 <wouter> actually, what we have is expresscard 18:35:58 <tumbleweed> err that, yes 18:36:03 <wouter> there is that, indeed 18:36:10 <pollo> is there stuff we need extra to test the voctomix setup? 18:36:20 <wouter> but if we call that company and spec "laptops with decent processor and expresscard slot", they should be happy 18:36:21 <tumbleweed> pollo: so, CCC's vocto setup uses blackmagic cards 18:36:27 <wouter> otoh, those expresscards were a source of trouble lastyear 18:36:30 <wouter> last year, even 18:36:46 <tumbleweed> pollo: LCA used HDV over firewire (and run into a bunch of trouble with that, but it should all be fixed now) 18:37:09 <wouter> might be better to use desktops and PCIe firewire cards after all 18:37:19 <tumbleweed> we don't actually know if those cards were the problem. Just something was. 18:37:28 <wouter> tumbleweed: I suspect it was the cards 18:37:28 <pollo> tumbleweed: so we don't need new cameras? 18:37:31 <wouter> I've seen the failure mode before 18:37:36 <h01ger> re: asking the dpl to support buying hw is a good idea 18:37:37 <tumbleweed> IIRC the HP laptops with onboard firewire seemed to work better 18:37:40 <CarlFK> I would hold off talking about Vocto in the DC meetings until someone has actually recorded a talk using a similar setup as will be used at DC 18:38:03 <tumbleweed> pollo: our big cameras have SDI output, and firewire 18:38:08 <tumbleweed> (we have 2 of them) 18:38:11 <pollo> \0/ 18:38:19 <h01ger> as is asking "the public" whether they can donate 10 laptops of the same kind and/or 4 powerful enough to run voctomix 18:38:24 <tumbleweed> so, our ambitious plan at mini-dc-cambridge 18:38:40 <tumbleweed> was to test out voctomix in one room 18:38:40 <pollo> CarlFK: i think we should talk about it if we plan to move to voctomix for DC17 18:38:41 <wouter> my supplier has pcie firewire expansion boards for €25ish 18:38:50 <tumbleweed> maybe a bof room, not one of the talk ones 18:39:21 <wouter> which is actually cheaper than the expresscard stuff that I got last year 18:39:24 <pollo> tumbleweed: that would be nice 18:39:41 <wouter> (iirc) 18:40:19 <h01ger> so no more twinpacts? 18:40:24 <wouter> h01ger: nope 18:40:25 <tumbleweed> wouter: looks like we can get at a similar price in za https://www.nivo.co.za/#search/search~pcie+firewire 18:40:34 <wouter> tumbleweed: right 18:40:50 <wouter> so my suggestion would be to rent desktops with a PCIe slot, and plug in firewire cards 18:41:01 <wouter> that's going to be more reliable than expresscards 18:41:24 <wouter> even if only because you can actually put a screw in a PCIe card (as opposed to an expresscard) so they can't move 18:41:32 <CarlFK> I have tons of firewire cards in all shapes and sizes - including half hight slot back things... I'll send tumbleweed as many lbs of them as he wants. wrapped in firewire cables. 18:41:39 <tumbleweed> lol 18:41:51 <wouter> CarlFK: even better :)- 18:41:56 <h01ger> someone should #info and #agreed stuff. anybody can do #info, only chairs can #agreed. iirc. Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 18:41:59 <tumbleweed> we can probably borrow old desktops from the university, but they could be very old 18:42:04 <pollo> I think we should buy new firewire cables though 18:42:19 <tumbleweed> we bought new ones last year 18:42:24 <h01ger> idea: ask the dpl to support buying hw - laptops 18:42:27 <wouter> tumbleweed: I would not borrow old desktops 18:42:28 <h01ger> #idea: ask the dpl to support buying hw - laptops 18:42:37 * CarlFK will send pollo 10 unused firewire cables a week until he tells me to stop 18:42:44 <pollo> :D 18:42:48 <wouter> CarlFK: lol 18:43:06 <h01ger> #idea: blog and ask for laptop donations, either from individuals or donations from companies 18:43:07 <pollo> it's just we had problem with one room last year until we changed a freaking cable 18:43:31 <wouter> h01ger: the advantage of renting locally is "no shipping costs" 18:43:47 <h01ger> wouter: *shrugs* 18:43:50 <pollo> h01ger: why buy if we can ge them cheaper than what shipping them will cost us? 18:43:51 <wouter> I think $26/week is going to be cheaper than shipping from US or EU 18:44:06 <h01ger> the advantage of shipping is you know the stuff and you can ship the same models many times 18:44:27 <wouter> there is that, provided we get them months/week beforehand 18:44:33 <wouter> *weeks 18:45:08 <tumbleweed> OK, time to move on 18:45:09 <h01ger> #info there are 3 main talk rooms to be videoed and 2 bof rooms would also love some coverage 18:45:09 <wouter> okay, so are we agreed on the desktop/pcie firewire, at least? 18:45:25 <pollo> wouter: i think it's the best we can do 18:45:27 <wouter> tumbleweed: can we make a decision first? otherwise we're just talking, not meeting 18:45:36 * h01ger is not sure there is a conclusion how voctomix is run where 18:45:57 * h01ger agrees with wouter that a plan should be agreed on 18:46:02 <cate> hello. just "some" minute later 18:46:05 <tumbleweed> yeah, we pushed the software stack agenda item too low down 18:46:09 <tumbleweed> it should have come bofore this 18:46:17 <pollo> heh, it used to be :p 18:46:18 <h01ger> then detour software 18:46:36 <h01ger> then hw again and then software in detail maybe, or "software, whats left" 18:46:51 <pollo> dvswitch in the 2 main rooms, voctomix in the bof one 18:47:01 <pollo> that's what I understood 18:47:02 <wouter> I thought the idea was to attempt voctomix during early debcamp, do a few trial runs, and then decide whether to stick with it or fall back to dvswitch? 18:47:14 <tumbleweed> something like that 18:47:15 <wouter> but maybe I misunderstood :-) 18:47:28 <wouter> if we're going to work with two software stacks, we may have more training to do 18:47:35 <pollo> indeed 18:48:03 <pollo> but if we decide to use voctomix, we need to be sure it'll last the whole conference 18:48:14 <wouter> there is that 18:48:21 <wouter> doing bof room might indeed be a better idea 18:48:22 <pollo> nobody wants to deal with changing the whole software in the middle of the conf 18:48:23 <CarlFK> vocto and dvswtich have different HW requirements. trying to supply both will up the cost, and trying to implement both adds complexity that I would recommend against 18:48:43 <tumbleweed> CarlFK: I don't see how we get the experience with voctomix, without using it in a room 18:48:52 <wouter> tumbleweed++ 18:49:01 <pollo> CarlFK: how is that? we can use our cameras with both and will have desktops 18:49:12 <CarlFK> tumbleweed: use it in the bof room knowing that it may fail 18:49:19 <tumbleweed> pollo: we'll probably need to run different releases of Debian for DVSwitch / vocto 18:49:23 <wouter> CarlFK: yes, and announce that loudly, too 18:49:25 <CarlFK> pollo: dv needs firewire, vocto needs more cpu 18:49:26 <tumbleweed> at LCA, we ran dvswitch from an ancient chroot 18:49:28 <cate> could you test voctomix in vienna or in debdummer? 18:49:53 <cate> debsummer 18:49:58 <CarlFK> people who want to test vocto should be testing it now on their home machines (please please someone do this for me?) 18:50:03 <wouter> #action wouter will make some time trying to get dvswitch to run on jessie+backports (for ffmpeg) 18:50:14 <wouter> if that works, we *don't* need two OSes 18:50:59 <pollo> I still think we should test voctomix in th BoF room only if it works during debcamp 18:51:04 <tumbleweed> I don't know if vocto will even run on jessie 18:51:15 <wouter> tumbleweed: oh. 18:51:21 <wouter> pollo: that's a given :-) 18:51:28 <wouter> tumbleweed: must admit I haven't tried that 18:51:45 <pollo> as for OSes, why can't we just have a few HDDs to swap? 18:51:53 <wouter> then again, if I say "jessie+backports" because ffmpeg, I could just as well say "unstable" 18:51:54 <tumbleweed> pollo: eeeek 18:52:04 <tumbleweed> pollo: no, I'd much rather use a chroot 18:52:07 <CarlFK> is the BOF room the 3rd room? 18:52:10 <wouter> CarlFK: yes 18:52:25 <wouter> are we willing to run this on an early-debcamp-unstable snapshot? 18:52:42 <tumbleweed> well jessie+backports sounds like a better option 18:52:51 <tumbleweed> but if that's the only thing that works, then that's what we have to do 18:52:58 <wouter> right 18:53:29 <wouter> CarlFK: will you be at dc16? 18:53:35 <CarlFK> if we commit to the BOF room being "disposable" and will either use Vocto or die, then you don't need any firewire for that room, 18:53:48 <CarlFK> wouter: i wish, but I don't plan on it :( 18:54:00 <tumbleweed> CarlFK: you can always use dvswitch without firewire 18:54:03 <tumbleweed> (given sufficient CPU) 18:54:06 <wouter> CarlFK: very good point 18:54:32 <wouter> I think it's fair to say to the scheduling team that the bof room is going to use an experimental software stack, and that it may fail 18:54:35 <pollo> for voctomix we need recent i7 from what I saw 18:54:40 <CarlFK> tumbleweed: um.. dvswitch without firewire ... how to you hook up the cameras? 18:54:51 <tumbleweed> CarlFK: however you were going to with vocto 18:54:56 <wouter> CarlFK: there is a gstreamer plugin to do dvswitch ;-) 18:54:57 <CarlFK> pollo: my gen 2 i3 desktop was ok 18:55:13 <wouter> pollo: you only do if you want to do FullHD or better 18:55:16 <wouter> pollo: we don't 18:55:27 <CarlFK> pollo: ah - doing 720p -CCC does 1080 which needs more cpu 18:56:06 <wouter> tumbleweed: can you either make someone co-chair, or do some #agreed thing? ;-) 18:56:14 <tumbleweed> anybody can #agreed, I think 18:56:19 <CarlFK> tumbleweed: oh right. my bad. hmm.. what is the plan for cameras in the BOF room? 18:56:22 <nattie> no, that takes a chair 18:56:26 <nattie> i think everyone can #info 18:57:07 <tumbleweed> ah, #action is everyone 18:57:09 <tumbleweed> #agreed isn't 18:57:14 <tumbleweed> oops :P 18:57:19 <wouter> CarlFK: we were taking a detour through software so we can make that decision :-) 18:57:51 <wouter> tumbleweed: so please do some agreed lines (we've made a number of decisions already) so they show up in the minutes? 18:57:56 <pollo> So here is my proposal: we try voctomix in debcamp. If it works, we use it in the BoF room. If not, we use dvswitch everywhere 18:58:01 <tumbleweed> yes, I'm trying to figure out what they are 18:58:10 <tumbleweed> #agreed DVswitch for the 2 main rooms, experimental vocto for the BOF room 18:58:15 <wouter> desktops+pcie firewire 18:58:39 <tumbleweed> wouter: for mixer or mixer and camera capture? 18:58:58 <wouter> tumbleweed: eh, we didn't actually discuss that part :) 18:59:06 <wouter> I think doing desktops for the mixer is sane 18:59:26 <tumbleweed> stick to the HP laptops for secondary camera 18:59:31 <tumbleweed> probably a good use for them 18:59:32 <wouter> and camera capture isn't much work, so that doesn't requires a separate machine 18:59:36 <wouter> yeah, I was about to say that :-) 18:59:50 <wouter> did grabbing with the hdmi2usb thing require much CPU? 18:59:55 <pollo> didn't we say firewire would be more stable on the desktops? 19:00:06 <tumbleweed> a reasonable amount, it needs a gstreamer pipeline that converts it to firewire 19:00:21 <tumbleweed> pollo: it was also more stable on the HP laptops 19:00:23 <wouter> pollo: as compared to expresscard firewire, yes. these laptops have builtin firewire, so there's less difference then 19:00:36 <wouter> tumbleweed: ah yes 19:00:46 <tumbleweed> not a honking i7 cpu 19:00:47 <CarlFK> hdmi2usb delivers mjpeg - very old core2 can tanscode to dv with like 30% cpu, so not much. 19:00:51 <tumbleweed> but something not terrible 19:00:55 <wouter> but that's not too much, video decoding isn't very complicated (you can do it realtime) and DV is basically moving JPEG I-frames 19:01:02 <tumbleweed> yeah, we could possibly do it on the same camera 19:01:09 <tumbleweed> err same laptop 19:01:13 <tumbleweed> but they may be on opposite sides of the room 19:01:31 <wouter> let's not go there 19:01:47 <wouter> let's say we rent/borrow/whatever six desktops 19:01:52 <wouter> of which at least three must have PCIe slots 19:01:58 <pollo> wouter++ 19:01:59 <wouter> and bring all five laptops from paris 19:02:12 <wouter> so that we have some spare capacity, too 19:02:25 <wouter> can you #agreed that? ;-) 19:02:34 <h01ger> lets decide on what before how 19:02:47 <tumbleweed> h01ger: haven't we decided that? 19:02:48 <wouter> that is a what :) 19:03:01 <h01ger> what do we need^wagree on for the 3 main rooms? and whta for the 2 bof rooms? 19:03:07 <tumbleweed> h01ger: see the last #agreed 19:03:10 <wouter> h01ger: er 19:03:16 <wouter> h01ger: we have three rooms to do video in 19:03:22 <wouter> two of them are main rooms, one is a bof room 19:03:30 <wouter> in the other two bof rooms we don't do video 19:03:32 <pollo> more than 3 is not sane anyway 19:03:34 <tumbleweed> well, our ambitious plans from the mini-dc were to try for 4 rooms :P 19:03:37 <h01ger> [20:59] < tumbleweed> #agreed DVswitch for the 2 main rooms, experimental vocto for the BOF room 19:03:40 <tumbleweed> with an automated camera in the 4th 19:03:43 <h01ger> misses 2 rooms? 19:03:58 <tumbleweed> h01ger: yeah, your room summary was weird 19:03:59 <wouter> h01ger: no it doesn't 19:04:11 <tumbleweed> h01ger: we never video all the BoF rooms 19:04:13 <tumbleweed> and nobody expects us to 19:04:39 <pollo> we did not agreed on what to do in the BoF is voctomix fails though. Die or dvswitch? 19:04:42 * wouter eats leftover waffles for dinner 19:04:55 <wouter> pollo: I think die is reasonable if it happens halfway through debconf 19:04:57 <tumbleweed> pollo: it's not like we have a choice 19:05:16 <wouter> if we find it's not possible early in debcamp, we can still fall back to dvswitch if we have the hardware 19:05:21 <pollo> wouter: yeah, but I mean we can,t make it run during debcamp 19:05:33 <tumbleweed> I think it should be fairly straight-forward to fall back, with whatever hardware we have 19:05:33 <wouter> but much will depend on what cameras we will get for that room 19:05:38 <tumbleweed> if it was capable of vocto 19:05:44 <tumbleweed> it can handle the transcoding for dvswitch 19:05:45 <wouter> tumbleweed: true enough 19:05:48 <pollo> can you #agree on this? 19:06:07 <wouter> that, or make someone else co-chair (please please please) 19:06:09 <tumbleweed> #agreed BoF room falls back to dvswitch if vocto prooves infeasable during debcamp 19:06:18 <pollo> \0/ 19:06:32 <pollo> so we did hardware and software? 19:06:37 <tumbleweed> wait 19:06:40 <tumbleweed> we aren't thorugh hardware 19:06:53 <wouter> I thought we were, other than that you haven't #agreed that yet 19:06:57 <wouter> so I suspect you have something still to say? ;-) 19:07:01 <tumbleweed> #agreed hire 6 desktops and buy 3 PCIe Firewire cards 19:07:07 <h01ger> newer iX (i3, …) is *much* faster than older iX, btw… (and just saying) 19:07:10 <tumbleweed> yes, I have a whole bunch of half-typed lines 19:07:16 <wouter> tumbleweed: okay :) 19:07:45 <tumbleweed> #agreed bring all laptops from Paris, use as secondary camera capture and possibly opsis capture 19:07:54 <tumbleweed> what's still missing there? 19:08:00 <h01ger> < pollo> So here is my proposal: we try voctomix in debcamp. If it works, we use it in the BoF room. If not, we use dvswitch everywhere 19:08:06 * h01ger likes that 19:08:14 <pollo> h01ger: we agreed on that 19:08:15 <tumbleweed> I just #agreed something very similar to that 19:08:34 <pollo> (03:04:38 PM) h01ger: [20:59] < tumbleweed> #agreed DVswitch for the 2 main rooms, experimental vocto for the BOF room 19:08:44 <h01ger> cool cool 19:08:46 <pollo> tumbleweed: #agreed BoF room falls back to dvswitch if vocto prooves infeasable during debcamp 19:08:50 <wouter> so that's hardware and recording stack 19:09:05 <wouter> do we need to modify much in the streaming end of things? 19:09:23 <h01ger> (the whole meeting btw, me likes the agenda, just i'm sorry i'm hardly here… RL meeting still ongoing :) 19:09:26 <tumbleweed> oeer that's a whole other topic 19:09:36 <wouter> tumbleweed: (can you update the #topic then, too? ;-) 19:09:42 <h01ger> audio hw? 19:09:43 <highvoltage> tumbleweed: I can look at local hiring (into what?) 19:09:46 <tumbleweed> well, we are still on hardware we need 19:09:49 <tumbleweed> highvoltage: \o/ 19:09:52 <highvoltage> (I mean hiring what?) 19:09:56 <wouter> tumbleweed: right, audio 19:10:03 <pollo> highvoltage: 6 desktops 19:10:15 <pollo> with cpus nice enough to run voctomix 19:10:25 <wouter> highvoltage: at least three of them must have PCIe slots so we can plug in firewire cards 19:10:33 <wouter> (that, or builtin firewire, but good luck with that today) 19:10:44 <highvoltage> pollo: what would that be? I can probably borrow a few 4th generation core i5 machines with 8GB RAM for free though 19:10:48 <highvoltage> (they're new dells) 19:10:55 <wouter> that sounds reasonable 19:10:58 <pollo> indeed 19:11:04 <highvoltage> I'll find out tomorrow 19:11:05 <tumbleweed> highvoltage: any idea how many? 19:11:06 <wouter> do you have a bit more detail on what the exact i5 is though? 19:11:09 <CarlFK> 4th generation core i5 is fine for vocto 19:11:17 <tumbleweed> #action highvoltage to find out about borrowing machines 19:11:17 <highvoltage> I think they have 7 of them unused at the moment 19:11:22 <tumbleweed> highvoltage: that'd be \o/ 19:11:27 <wouter> highvoltage: that sounds just perfect, then 19:11:30 <highvoltage> oh this is a meeting? sorry I'm missing it, tough day 19:11:36 <pollo> heh 19:11:38 <wouter> highvoltage: no worries :) 19:11:56 <wouter> audio hardware then? 19:11:57 <tumbleweed> #topic Audio Hardware 19:11:59 <wouter> :) 19:12:10 <tumbleweed> we have this stuff in paris 19:12:17 <tumbleweed> but presumably better to hire locally 19:12:24 <wouter> yeah 19:12:27 <tumbleweed> and actually, we are short of radio mics in paris 19:12:47 <tumbleweed> UCT has an AV centre that we can hire from, but I'm betting it'll be shitty equipment, and overpriced 19:13:10 <pollo> we need 3 mixers, 6 wireless mics and? 19:13:21 <tumbleweed> I'd say more than 6 wireless mics 19:13:22 <wouter> reasonable amount of XLR cables 19:13:27 <wouter> booms 19:13:38 <tumbleweed> in a main talk room, it's nice to have 2 headset mics and 2 handheld 19:13:40 <wouter> yeah, more than six mics, too 19:13:48 <tumbleweed> plus 2 ambient mics 19:14:04 <highvoltage> I have a friend who works for this company: http://www.avdirect.co.za/ - they have decent stuff, but are expensive, but if I can give him a shopping list he might be able to get a better than usual price (especially since it's off-season) 19:14:20 <pollo> so 4 headsets, 6 wireless handheld, 6 ambient? 19:14:30 <tumbleweed> pollo: yeah + cabling 19:14:38 <wouter> as for the bof room 19:14:44 <wouter> last year we used directional mics there 19:14:49 <wouter> but I'm not convinced it was a great success 19:15:05 <tumbleweed> highvoltage: that'd be awesome. I guess someone will have to come up with a list of equipment for you 19:15:06 <wouter> the alternative is handing microphones around, but in a bof that quickly gets tiring 19:15:21 <wouter> how large is the bof room? 19:15:27 <highvoltage> tumbleweed: yep that would be great 19:15:33 <pollo> wouter: 130 ppl 19:15:40 <wouter> the bof room? really? 19:15:49 <wouter> that sounds more like the main track rooms 19:15:52 <tumbleweed> wouter: we have 6 rooms like that (well 2 are a bit smaller) 19:15:53 <wouter> bof rooms are usually a few dozen people 19:15:59 <wouter> whoa 19:16:00 <wouter> okay 19:16:15 <tumbleweed> we also have 3 smaller ones, that might be better suited to bofs 19:16:16 <wouter> I _was_ going to suggest putting a few boom mics in a room so that "almost everything" is picked up without directional mikes 19:16:21 <wouter> but that sounds like a bad idea then 19:16:31 <tumbleweed> the thing about those 130 seater rooms is that they're just a bit small for a main talk room, if everyone at the conference is in the room 19:16:49 <wouter> they sound more like "small talk rooms" 19:16:58 <tumbleweed> yeah, they really are 19:17:18 <pollo> we need at least 3 mic stands too 19:17:19 <wouter> I don't think they will work in the same way as last year's videoed bof room then 19:17:46 <tumbleweed> wouter: yeah, that room also ended up being hard work on the camera operators 19:17:55 <wouter> what kind of a room is that? is it like an aula, or more like a large meeting room? 19:17:55 <tumbleweed> because of the mics 19:18:17 <wouter> can we move the furniture around, or is it bolted to the floor? 19:18:20 <tumbleweed> wouter: https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf16/Venue 3 and 4 th pics on the conference layout page 19:18:27 <tumbleweed> those are the 130 seaters 19:18:34 <tumbleweed> can't move anything 19:18:45 <tumbleweed> however, there are smaller rooms next door, that we can totally rearrange 19:18:49 <pollo> FYI we've been in meeting for 1:20 now. I said it would take 1:30 19:18:57 <wouter> snape A looks like you can 19:19:06 <tumbleweed> yeah, the A rooms are rearrangeable 19:19:14 <pollo> I think we should go on, but if ppl need to go we _could_ do another meeting soonish 19:19:23 <tumbleweed> OK, yes, let's push forward 19:19:34 <wouter> we'll do another meeting about audio then? 19:19:40 <tumbleweed> can I action someone to give highvoltage a list? 19:19:46 <pollo> +1 19:19:55 <tumbleweed> pollo: is that you? 19:19:57 <pollo> ja 19:20:00 <wouter> someone who's good at audio preferably then (which is not me) 19:20:08 <tumbleweed> it's not really pollo, either 19:20:11 <wouter> pollo: erm, no offense, but I'm not sure it's you, either...? 19:20:19 <tumbleweed> nor me :P 19:20:35 <pollo> hehm I though you were talking about the mics & stands 19:20:35 <wouter> maybe we should yell on the list 19:20:47 <wouter> if nobody speaks up, I can make an effort 19:21:02 <pollo> rattus rattus? 19:21:10 <pollo> he seemed good with audio 19:21:18 <wouter> yeah, that would work 19:21:23 <wouter> if he has the time :-) 19:21:45 <tumbleweed> #action highvoltage to price rental of 4 wireless headsets, 6 wireless handhelds, 6 omni mics with stands, 3 mixers, plus enough cabling 19:21:56 <tumbleweed> I guess that's as detailed a list as we're going to get 19:22:02 <wouter> fair enough 19:22:21 <pollo> do we need to look into server hardware? 19:22:22 <wouter> we can probably update that list if we find that we need more, too 19:22:25 <tumbleweed> err, actually 19:23:05 <tumbleweed> #action highvoltage to price rental of 6 wireless headsets, 6 wireless handhelds, 6 omni mics with stands, 3 mixers, plus enough cabling 19:23:21 <tumbleweed> #topic opsis 19:23:40 <pollo> how did the tests in Cambridge go? 19:23:43 <tumbleweed> these are still all sitting in my office 19:23:58 <tumbleweed> is anyone going to do anything about bringing these up? 19:24:00 <wouter> pollo: fairly good, I would say 19:24:09 <wouter> tumbleweed: what needs to be done about them? 19:24:12 <tumbleweed> I think I have all the necessary cables (but probably not enough HDMI cables) 19:24:37 <pollo> wouter: any major problem that meant we should not use them? 19:24:39 <highvoltage> ack 19:24:50 <tumbleweed> wouter: flash them, make a machine image for streaming from them 19:25:02 <wouter> pollo: tumbleweed may have a better idea :-) 19:25:07 <tumbleweed> I have some experince from flashing the atlys (dev) board 19:25:23 <tumbleweed> but haven't played with the opsis, yet 19:25:30 <wouter> tumbleweed: to avoid any confusion, the opsis is what exactly? 19:25:41 <tumbleweed> https://www.crowdsupply.com/numato-lab/opsis 19:25:55 <tumbleweed> it's the production board, we used a dev board in cambridge 19:25:56 <wouter> ah, right 19:26:00 <tumbleweed> the production board is slightly different 19:26:03 <wouter> they're the hdmi2usb thingies 19:26:07 <tumbleweed> yep 19:26:48 <tumbleweed> no takers :P 19:26:53 <wouter> so, what needs to be done then? 19:27:10 <wouter> (also, I'm guessing if they're at your office, it might be good if you were the taker...) 19:27:12 <pollo> tumbleweed: is it possible to bork them while flashing? 19:27:22 <tumbleweed> pollo: I think it's possible to debork 19:27:29 <tumbleweed> yeah, I'm guessing this is on me 19:27:36 <tumbleweed> #action tumbleweed to get the opsis boards working 19:27:37 <pollo> :D, but please doc it 19:27:38 <wouter> sorry :-) 19:27:57 <pollo> with enough doc we should be able to do it the next time 19:27:58 <wouter> I mean, I don't mind playing with such things, but hacking with hardware halfway around the world is problematic 19:28:07 <CarlFK> tumbleweed: yay, someone to help me. misery loves company :) 19:28:08 <tumbleweed> well, once it's working, 19:28:14 <tumbleweed> we need to get it into our FAI setup 19:28:20 <tumbleweed> or kill our FAI setup :P 19:28:28 <tumbleweed> anyway, moving on 19:28:35 <tumbleweed> #topic Vienna mini-DC 19:28:43 <tumbleweed> do we want to use this to test anything we're going to do at DC16 19:28:55 <tumbleweed> there are two days of debcamp before it, which could be enough time to get some things going 19:29:01 <tumbleweed> but presumably all the hardware will be different... 19:29:15 <pollo> tumbleweed: you won't take anything from IRILL? 19:29:16 <wouter> you could do some voctomix test runs? 19:29:19 <tumbleweed> also, somebody needs to get hardware there 19:29:24 <wouter> if you have the time, that is 19:29:33 <pollo> it'd be nice to mount & test the CCC reviewing software 19:29:38 <tumbleweed> pollo: we've just talked about hiring everything we need, except those laptops 19:29:45 <tumbleweed> pollo: what hardware from IRILL would we ship to CPT? 19:29:53 <wouter> tumbleweed: to vienna 19:30:01 <pollo> tumbleweed: right 19:30:06 <h01ger> #voc-lounge confirmed voctomix runs on jessie (*probably* some jessie-backports are needed too) and newer gstreamer than jessie+backports currently has 19:30:26 <h01ger> can you do #save please? 19:30:28 <wouter> h01ger: cool, good to know 19:30:34 <tumbleweed> h01ger: that makes it sounds like it doesn't run on jessie+backports, right now? 19:30:39 <h01ger> #info #voc-lounge confirmed voctomix runs on jessie (*probably* some jessie-backports are needed too) and newer gstreamer than jessie+backports currently has 19:30:51 <h01ger> tumbleweed: yes. 19:31:09 <pollo> I think we can manage the voctomix & new hw in debcamp, but with the new reviewing sotfware too it might be a little too much 19:31:14 <h01ger> can chair do #save please? 19:31:18 <tumbleweed> #save 19:31:22 <h01ger> merci 19:31:29 <wouter> what does that do? 19:31:35 <tumbleweed> and is that really necessary? 19:32:16 <h01ger> what about vienna? :) 19:32:23 <tumbleweed> pollo: well, it sounds like I'm the only person who is going to be at the miniDC and cape Town, and you can't depend on me setting things up in cape town 19:32:39 * h01ger _might_ be in vienna… 19:32:40 <pollo> ivodd? 19:32:50 <tumbleweed> ivodd said he isn't going to CPT 19:32:58 <pollo> oops, srry 19:33:39 <tumbleweed> and someone is going to have to organise some shipping to vienna 19:33:41 <ivodd> tumbleweed: I don't know if I'm going to CPT yet 19:33:46 <tumbleweed> ah, I see 19:33:49 <ivodd> but it's unlikely I'll be at debcamp 19:34:09 * wouter is going (tickets have already been booked) 19:34:14 <ivodd> I will be in vienna 19:34:17 <wouter> but not to vienna 19:34:32 <pollo> tumbleweed: well if you could see if the opsis board work fine for vienna it'd be swell 19:34:41 <tumbleweed> yeah, that's kind of what I'm aiming for 19:34:42 <pollo> I think we can manage the rest 19:34:57 <h01ger> so ivodd and tumbleweed will be there? 19:34:59 <tumbleweed> will someone look at shipping IRILL to vienna? 19:35:13 <tumbleweed> not shipping IRILL obviously, from IRILL :P 19:35:14 <pollo> I have this guy who wanted to do it for CP 19:35:30 <pollo> if we are not doing it I can ask him for vienna 19:35:51 <pollo> what are the dates? 19:36:16 <tumbleweed> 2016-04-28 / -30 to 2016-05-01 (Thursday to Sunday) 19:36:55 <pollo> I'll ask (he's the same that did the shipping for mini-cambridge) 19:36:58 <tumbleweed> I would offer to carry the laptops from Vienna to CPT, but I'd probably have to pay excess baggage charges 19:37:07 <tumbleweed> it may be an option to consider, though 19:37:22 <pollo> I think it's worth it 19:37:29 <pollo> less trouble making sure they arrive 19:38:01 <pollo> so #action pollo will ask around for shipping stuff from IRILL to Vienna? 19:38:08 <wouter> if excess baggage charges is a problem, I think having debconf pay for that is fine 19:38:11 <pollo> I need a list of what is needed though 19:38:16 <pollo> wouter++ 19:38:18 <tumbleweed> #action pollo will ask around for shipping stuff from IRILL to Vienna 19:38:19 <wouter> the alternative is that debconf pays for shipping, anyway 19:38:26 <tumbleweed> pollo: I can help you draw that list up 19:38:28 <tumbleweed> wouter: well, yes 19:38:48 <tumbleweed> and we probably need a Carnet too 19:39:03 <pollo> what is a Carnet? 19:39:09 <wouter> what pollo said :-) 19:39:15 <tumbleweed> http://export.gov/logistics/eg_main_018129.asp 19:39:28 <tumbleweed> horrific paperwork that's required when temporarily importing hardware 19:39:29 <pollo> ooh 19:39:39 <pollo> the guy in France wanted to do it 19:39:49 <pollo> he's Debian France President 19:40:22 <h01ger> actually 19:40:25 <pollo> so it might be simpler shipping the laptops back to IRILL and then back to CPT 19:40:40 <h01ger> shipping IRILL to vienna and from there to cap town is a great plan 19:40:45 <h01ger> to inventory there 19:40:57 <tumbleweed> h01ger: we're reasonably confident of the inventory we took at dc15 19:41:00 <pollo> h01ger: we only need 5 laptops for CPT 19:41:26 <tumbleweed> well 19:41:32 <tumbleweed> we've forgotten abotu cameras 19:41:37 <tumbleweed> in that we made no decisions about them 19:41:43 <pollo> hmm 19:41:44 <tumbleweed> all our cameras are in a single case 19:41:57 <tumbleweed> but firewire cables aren't 19:42:08 <h01ger> so shipping everything to vienna? ;) 19:42:20 <pollo> tumbleweed: having you lug around the laptops and the cameras might be a little too much 19:42:27 <tumbleweed> pollo: yes, thinking so, too 19:42:38 <tumbleweed> I'll already be carrying opsis and a mountain of cables 19:42:45 <pollo> I vote for IRILL -> Vienna -> IRILL -> CPT 19:43:10 <tumbleweed> #action pollo to organise shipping IRILL -> Vienna -> IRILL -> CPT 19:43:15 <tumbleweed> hope that's OK :P 19:43:33 <pollo> that's fine, I'm already in touch with the guy from France 19:43:50 <h01ger> cool 19:43:59 <pollo> but #action tumbleweed to make up a list of stuff needed in Vienna 19:44:02 <tumbleweed> of course that's not enough cameras 19:44:07 <tumbleweed> #action tumbleweed to make up a list of stuff needed in Vienna 19:44:17 <tumbleweed> pollo: can you wokr with highvoltage on finding local cameras? 19:44:28 <pollo> 3 more? firewire? 19:44:45 <pollo> I can if you have the needed specs 19:44:57 <tumbleweed> well, that's what I mean, figuring out the specs 19:45:14 <tumbleweed> so, if SDI, we'll need SDI capture cards 19:45:21 <tumbleweed> (voctomix) 19:45:33 * pollo might not be the best to do this job 19:45:47 <pollo> I'm not (yet) good with video standarts 19:45:56 <tumbleweed> can you take it to the list, then and we'll hash it out, there? 19:46:14 <pollo> yeah 19:46:35 <tumbleweed> #action pollo to take local camera (and capture card) rental to the list, for discussion (i.e. what we want) 19:46:41 <wouter> I think we're done for the rest? 19:46:46 <tumbleweed> #topic Budget 19:46:47 <pollo> Budget 19:46:51 <pollo> woot 19:46:54 <tumbleweed> $5k USD 19:47:00 <tumbleweed> that's the prelimenary number 19:47:07 <tumbleweed> we don't have anything more concrete yet, right? 19:47:24 <pollo> renting stuff will be kinda cheap for PC 19:47:30 <tumbleweed> or free :P 19:47:32 <wouter> pollo: highvoltage was going to borrow 19:47:35 <pollo> yeah 19:47:53 <pollo> is DebConf paying for IRILL -> Vienna -> IRILL ? 19:47:54 <wouter> tumbleweed: we can't answer that question until whoever is going to look for shipping has done their job 19:48:05 <tumbleweed> pollo: the mini-dc should 19:48:18 <tumbleweed> wouter: shipping and equipment rental 19:48:25 <pollo> so it's just shipping 5 laptops and a camera case IRILL -> CPT 19:48:36 <wouter> well, but irill only has four cameras 19:48:38 <wouter> we need six 19:48:41 <pollo> true 19:48:44 <wouter> so we also need to rent cameras in cpt 19:48:58 <tumbleweed> yes, we just actioned that 19:49:04 <pollo> still, I think 5K USD$ should be enough 19:49:05 <wouter> ah, yes, sorry 19:49:13 <wouter> pollo: at this point in time, I think it's too early to say 19:49:13 <tumbleweed> OK 19:49:18 <tumbleweed> let's revisit this in the next meeting 19:49:22 <tumbleweed> #topic next meeting 19:49:24 <wouter> yes please :-) 19:49:30 <pollo> I can make sure it happens 19:49:31 <tumbleweed> 2 weeks? 19:49:32 <tumbleweed> 1 week? 19:49:36 <pollo> 2 weeks 19:49:44 <tumbleweed> #agreed meet again, same time in two weeks 19:49:45 <pollo> now is university finals 19:49:50 <pollo> eehs 19:49:57 <pollo> I think a poll would be better 19:50:19 <wouter> pollo: that just means we need to wait another week to come to approximately the same decision 19:50:34 <wouter> let's just say same time in two weeks for now, we can always change it if it turns out to be difficult for other people 19:50:39 <tumbleweed> yeah 19:50:44 <tumbleweed> that's what I'd suggest 19:50:49 <pollo> ok fine 19:50:57 <pollo> I'll write to the list about it 19:51:05 <tumbleweed> #action pollo to announce the next meeting 19:51:08 <tumbleweed> #endmeeting