18:11:33 #startmeeting 18:11:33 Meeting started Tue Jul 21 18:11:33 2015 UTC. The chair is RichiH. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 18:11:33 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 18:11:35 nothing here is ideal, we need to work with what and who we have 18:11:45 tassia: point 18:11:47 #info /q zack 18:11:49 erm 18:12:14 whoops? 18:12:35 #info IRILL equipment is still in storage, but needs someone reasonably local to pick it up & package. zack is away and can't help on site. 18:12:44 nattie: i wanted to look up when i first poked him 18:12:58 who else is local? 18:13:03 RichiH: who's in paris? 18:13:22 I wonder if zack can point us at other locals? 18:13:32 actually, that *is* something that db.d.o can tell us... 18:13:33 tumbleweed: already on it 18:13:34 * wouter checks it out 18:13:40 wouter: already on it 18:14:39 logging in to db, searching for DD's in France, and searching on the page for "Paris" yields 18 matches 18:14:55 sylvestre & mehdi seem to be at irill 18:14:58 paris is big and repeatedly gave names of people who work there 18:15:13 and i didnt put them in a publicically logged channel on purpose. sigh. 18:15:22 h01ger: erm, yes 18:15:24 there's that 18:15:33 it's 30C plus in here, sorry 18:15:44 h01ger, who do you suggest to be contacted? 18:15:51 h01ger: how did we do this in previous years? 18:16:02 tassia: what i told RichiH 18:16:08 wouter: ? 18:16:20 "get gear from paris to venue by car" 18:16:27 (if we did that at all, of course) 18:16:38 either we shipped or we carried 18:16:41 sylvestre isn't at irill anymore, says zack 18:16:49 that's what I heard too 18:17:03 but let's ask mehdi? 18:17:15 someone needs to own that. It's too important. 18:17:20 yes, but he is close enough and this really doesnt need to be solved in a meeting with X people 18:17:28 RichiH: don't attend from the sauna? 18:17:34 worst case we can always rent a car in Germany and do a quick run 18:17:39 p2-mate: poor sauna if it's only 30ish 18:17:50 I'm way too busy myself (as proven by my failure to even fill out the doodle date for this meeting) otherwise I'd suggest me. 18:17:51 my suggestion is we action the finding of 2 people, with help from zack 18:17:54 anyone want to volunteer? 18:18:08 just a moment... 18:18:11 so, who owns the _search_? 18:18:12 nattie: note 'plus' :) 18:18:13 * h01ger suggests to get money and get a shipping company 18:18:24 even so, we need someone to go there 18:18:36 h01ger: the gear needs to be found and packaged 18:18:37 it's mehdi! 18:18:40 hi mehdi 18:18:45 whee 18:18:48 does franklin live in paris? 18:18:49 RichiH: oh really??? 18:18:56 tassia: in the banlieue i think, but near enough 18:19:00 hi everyone! 18:19:06 mehdi: did you join here to help to get the gear from irill to heidelberg? 18:19:06 h01ger: oh really. and that is why "just" shipping is not enough 18:19:17 also, we have had a budget line to ship stuff since march 18:19:18 RichiH: … 18:19:19 RichiH, h01ger: can we keep the bickering out, please? not helpful. 18:19:38 * h01ger goes afk 18:19:49 Heidelberg-Paris is 544km, a 5h ride 18:19:55 h01ger: i joined after a friendly request to join :p 18:20:16 mehdi: are you reasonably close to paris, and willing/able to help get the gear currently at IRILL to Heidelberg? 18:20:51 mehdi: note that we mainly need you to do the paris-local stuff, with help from zack 18:21:01 transport comes secondary 18:21:04 though zack is apparently already en vacances 18:21:23 i can get to irill easily. i may see if i can help, sure. 18:21:34 mehdi: iff we can get it from paris to heidelberg by car, that's always useful, but not a requirement (there is *some* budget) 18:21:40 but dunno what is planned and who's involved 18:21:51 currently, nothing is planned. That's the main problem :) 18:21:55 :) 18:21:56 i think the main priority is locating the stuff and making sure whoever is holding it knows that we're coming to get it 18:22:12 mehdi: nothing is planned and noone is following up on things. (i'm just standing by) 18:22:29 i see. i already bought my train tickets though 18:22:35 mehdi, we could try to coordinate with mehdi and franklin 18:22:47 we can pay for shipping 18:22:53 two people does better i think 18:22:56 if I may interject, I'd recommend shipping 18:23:05 i really really think you stop making complicated plans ("someone might pick it up but we need to find this someone") and plan with a company which will come on day X and which will get handed the boxes from mehdi 18:23:19 yep 18:23:30 h01ger: good point 18:23:31 if mehdi agrees to do that and we know what day X is, yah 18:23:38 * tvaz also thinks shipping is a reasonable option 18:23:39 mehdi: any realistic ETA? 18:23:48 RichiH: if you dont know day X you need to define it. (plural you) 18:23:58 how does it ~cost ? 18:24:26 RichiH: why ask mehdi ? he aint video team. (plural) you need to define ETA. debcamp starts on day Y, so day X = Y+-1 18:24:34 tvaz: irrelvant atm, but i have some numbers in my email iirc 18:24:58 h01ger, video-team is whoever is in this channel 18:25:01 hrm. don't you want to see other people coming by cars first? 18:25:06 tassia: yeah 18:25:09 no one else has volunteered 18:25:10 RichiH: we came up with a guesstimate. I thought 2K, you thought less than that. We have 5K budget for ~everything 18:25:13 mehdi: it's quite a lot of equipment 18:25:20 wouter: ah, yes 18:25:37 so we don't *actually* have numbers 18:25:46 tumbleweed: it was shippable to the RattusRattus as a whole, wasnt it? 18:25:49 no, but we need to talk to a shipping company, and the'll tell us :) 18:25:52 mehdi: you said you could see if you could help 18:25:53 anyway, point is that we need to organize this *now*. After today is too late, by definition 18:25:58 h01ger: he got less than the full set of equipment 18:26:01 can you commit to help and track down the stuff? 18:26:01 tumbleweed, i've already been in the office where all that is stacked :) 18:26:07 h01ger: and I think it filled the back of his station wagon 18:26:15 mehdi: ah, perfect 18:26:16 #info IRILL inventory at https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/Videoteam/HardwareInventory 18:26:58 iirc, we did ship that in the past to (at least) banja luka, no? 18:27:01 mehdi: is it possible for you to coordinate with IRILL to come up with a way to get everything DHL'ed (or whatever) to Heidelberg? Either move it to your place and have DHL pick up there, or go over to IRILL so that everything is nicely packed up and have DHL come over there 18:27:05 shipping 30kg around europe usually costs me 50eur (I do it pretty often) 18:27:10 Sylvestre handled it iirc 18:27:18 mehdi: I don't know how this works. Can we expect everything to be there, or do we need to do an advance inspection to check? 18:27:21 mehdi: yes, but he doesn't work there anymore, so that's not an option 18:28:07 wouter: he still has the contacts though, for shipping or maybe some other tips 18:28:28 i'll try to contact irill folks and see what i can do 18:28:45 okay. Can you report on the list when you have more news? 18:28:50 but delivered to whom? which day? 18:28:55 sure 18:29:02 it needs to be delivered to heidelberg 18:29:09 RichiH: do you know when we are allowed in at heidelberg? 18:29:18 s/heidelberg/the venue/ 18:29:20 that's the easy part :p 18:29:26 (the address) 18:29:29 wouter: for storage? always 18:29:58 i guess some day during debcamp is okay enough? 18:30:10 mehdi: let's say have it arrive the first day of debcamp 18:30:13 (preferably not the last day?) 18:30:21 k 18:30:22 or ~the first day, anyway 18:30:31 we can ship before the first day of debcamp 18:30:39 RichiH: do we need to, though? 18:30:42 I'd say before the first day,yes 18:30:45 if i know it's underway, i will just ask mr rodine to accept shipment 18:30:47 if they have storage 18:30:55 I'd say, as soon as possible, so we can get an accurate inventory 18:30:56 tumbleweed: plenty 18:30:59 if it arrives before debcamp, its better 18:31:00 wouter: err on the side of caution 18:31:06 okay, fair enough 18:31:11 (if there is storage, but RichiH just said so) 18:31:14 let's say two or three days before debcamp, then 18:31:23 mehdi: so can you contact $whoever at IRILL _tomorrow_ and ask them for access, then email the list? 18:31:29 h01ger: I was meaning to press comma, there, not enter :) 18:31:34 Jugendherberge Heidelberg International 18:31:41 DebConf15 18:31:42 wouldn't it be better to have this done as soon as possible? 18:31:43 RichiH: will try 18:31:44 when I ship things, truck A picks it up, takes it to shipping company, unloaded, sorted, and put on truck B for delivery with other items in the same area.. and they will hold it at the where house for a few days if needed. 18:31:50 Tiergartenstraße 5 18:31:51 Tincho: yes 18:31:54 Tincho: isn't that "as soon as possible"? ;) 18:31:57 what about the inventory? can mehdi check what he is actually shipping? 18:31:59 69120 Heidelberg. 18:32:08 That's the shipping address 18:32:09 wouter: as soon as possible is to ship this thu/fri 18:32:10 wouter: you were saying 2-3 days before camp 18:32:14 I'm worried that we have surprises when the package arrives 18:32:17 oh, that way 18:32:22 tassia: correct 18:32:41 so... it can be picked up a week or so before when it is convenient, and delivered on the first day someone will be there to receive it. 18:33:04 CarlFK: it's a hostelling business, there is someone there, pretty much always 18:33:19 #action mehdi will try to contect IRILL tomorrow or the day after to get access to the office where stuff is stored and give feedback about if it's all there & looks good this week 18:33:20 tassia: everything will be fine :p 18:33:36 RichiH: if the venue is happy holding it two weeks for us, I don't think it's necessarily a bad idea to ship this week 18:33:57 I think we're all agreed on that 18:34:14 depends how much time it takes to get shipped 18:34:20 if they're not happy doing that, I suggest delivery two or three days before debcamp 18:34:56 RichiH: next topic? 18:35:10 going from actions, that'd be audio 18:35:13 is the stuff already packed? 18:35:15 mehdi: would you have the time sometime this week to go over and do a quick inventory? Doesn't have to be a "full" inventory, just make sure that everything seems to be there 18:35:17 #topic would be a good idea :) 18:35:22 RichiH: Why not shipping it now to Zugschluss? 18:35:41 (if not, don't worry about it then) 18:35:44 it's quite a lot of stuff, isn't it? 18:35:47 nattie: yes 18:36:01 wouter: possible, yes (or get someone to do it) 18:36:35 RichiH: you find out about storage, and let mehdi know ASAP? 18:36:36 maybe IRILL has an inventory... although it's possible/likely that they don't 18:36:37 #info richih emailed the jugendherberge if we can have the video equipment arrive & stored next week 18:36:46 nattie: way ahead of you 18:36:50 :) 18:36:58 great 18:37:00 ok, next topic, audio? 18:37:07 RichiH: #topic 18:37:13 #topic last topic was IRILL gear 18:37:17 and budget estimate of 2k€? 18:37:18 #topic audio 18:37:42 mehdi: sounds reasonable 18:37:43 * wouter knows zip about audio 18:37:46 mehdi: if you could ask DHL, UPS, etc... 18:37:50 (for two ways shippment i guess) 18:37:51 anyway, audio 18:37:59 k 18:38:04 so, DLange provided some information about the venue audio equipment in IRC, and iti didn't look promising 18:38:22 many of the venues have a built-in system that isn't very hackable 18:38:29 Tincho mentioned an option of €50 for every 30 kg 18:38:41 I am pretty used to ship my personal stuff around europe 18:38:48 maxy: that's not exactly what he said 18:38:51 shipping boxes up to 30kg is usually cost-effective 18:39:02 but I don't know how this is packed 18:39:06 and how big are the boxes 18:39:11 Tincho: flight cases, fairly large 18:39:22 #info Tincho has some info on shipment prices & carriers and will email the list 18:39:23 wouter: ~ measures? 18:39:40 Tincho: look at https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/Videoteam/HardwareInventory 18:39:41 from memory: about 1.5m by 1m by 50cm 18:39:51 those are the largest boxes 18:39:52 we are running into a 3-hour meeting if we keep this pace 18:39:55 they are not that big 18:39:58 there are plenty of others too, though 18:40:18 h01ger: well, granted, I'm terrible at guessing. Can you make a better one? 18:40:22 wouter: shit, those don't fit in the budget companies 18:40:54 please can we keep this on topic? we can discuss shipping details later 18:40:58 right 18:41:04 tumbleweed: you were saying, about the venue audio 18:41:10 #info https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf15/Videoteam/Help#Venue_installations 18:41:17 #chair tumbleweed 18:41:17 Current chairs: RichiH tumbleweed 18:41:21 #info https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf15/Videoteam/Help#Venue_installations 18:41:23 (do you need that to #info?) 18:41:29 did that work? i have no idea 18:41:32 anyway 18:41:33 it's in the logs 18:41:38 80cm by 30cm by 30cm 18:42:07 that bose system looks unuseable by us. We may be able to use the berlin/london PAs 18:42:21 so, we probably have to hire PA equipment 18:42:48 tumbleweed: why unusable? 18:42:52 tumbleweed: can't we use the aux input on the bose system, and use our own mics? 18:43:07 wouter: yes, that may be possible. I don't know where that panel is in the room 18:43:16 near the door 18:43:34 DLange: do we have floor plans? 18:43:52 none that show things like the audio systems 18:44:09 http://pro.bose.com/pdf/pro/tech_data/controlspace_cc64/td_controlspace_cc64_eng.pdf 18:44:31 pollo: all we can really do is use that as a PA 18:44:37 we'd have to use our own mics and mixer 18:44:42 so we can get a feed for video 18:44:48 git:dc-team/dc15/venue/plans/ is what we have 18:45:11 are there any companies local to heidelberg that have the gear we would need? 18:45:55 unlikely, Heidelberg is a small university city 18:46:04 probably Mannheim or Frankfurt 18:46:50 somebody, preferably local, who speaks german needs to find such companies 18:47:00 maybe the venue can suggest one? presumably they have to hire things occasionally 18:47:08 tumbleweed: can you create a list of things we'd need, though? 18:47:14 if you get me a list of what you need, I can do the calls 18:47:35 but I can't guarantee that you get what you want/need 18:47:38 wouter: sure, I can thumbsuck and post to the list 18:47:38 I have a general idea, buy my grasp of what's needed for audio is too low to be able to do this myself 18:47:59 the venue may have additional equipment too. 18:48:01 relatedly, the content team wants a 3 rd room to have video coverge 18:48:07 which means a lot of hiring 18:48:12 CarlFK: they don't, we asked 18:48:19 tumbleweed, I founf my camera 18:48:20 tumbleweed: I don't think we'll be able to manage that 18:48:26 eww. never mind. 18:48:27 just the mics that I put in the wiki 18:48:38 I'll be happy if we manage to do video at all this year, given our current state... 18:49:27 if someone can find DV cameras and a twinpact, I think we can do it. But I'm pretty powerless in the finding department. 18:49:37 having a third unmanned room will mean too much of extra work 18:49:42 I found my DV camera 18:49:45 mm 18:49:56 tassia: so i don't need to ask the video guy i know? 18:49:59 I did offer to take FOSDEM's twinpacts; they have at least three, but I believe more than that 18:50:14 wouter: if you could get a couple that would be useful 18:50:18 (and FOSDEM likely won't use them anymore either, so that's extra good) 18:50:19 (for spares if nothing else) 18:50:28 tumbleweed: fosdem has tons of twinpacts 18:50:30 anything else we would need for this 3rd room? 18:50:31 still need to talk to other Wouter for that, but okay 18:50:38 tassia: more audio gear 18:50:40 tassia: all the audio equimpent 18:50:42 laptops 18:50:54 we only have six laptops, which is not enough if we want to do a third room 18:51:09 and that doesn't even leave us with any spares for 2 rooms 18:51:16 remember we haven't seen this equimpent in 2 years 18:51:18 who knows what works 18:51:22 I also have a laptop to lend 18:51:26 tassia: needs to have DV 18:51:29 err firewire 18:51:32 yes, it has 18:51:37 I have a number of expresscard firewire adapters 18:51:41 "somewhere" 18:51:42 tumbleweed: we saw it at the minidebconf in cambridge last november 18:51:43 they were both used in nicaragua 18:51:47 I'll need to see if I can find them again 18:51:50 it's a x61 12GB with SSD, should work 18:51:53 h01ger: not all of it 18:52:06 #info richih poked woutersimons/FOSDEM about loaning twinpacts and wouter will also follow up 18:52:09 I can also bring my x220 (which has an expresscard slot) 18:52:10 i think all laüptops 18:52:16 RichiH: er, I'm an idiot 18:52:21 yeah, I can bring an x220 too 18:52:30 I do *not* need to ask other wouter, he has nothing to do with storage, need to ask wodan 18:52:34 sorry, got a bit confused there 18:52:45 wouter: no worries, i will poke wodan as well 18:52:50 I'll call him after the meeting (or tomorrow, depending on what time the meeting ends) 18:53:08 ok, so with my camera+laptop + renting more audio, are we able to do the 3rd room? 18:53:17 tassia: "maybe" 18:53:29 #action tumbleweed to write a list of required audio hardware 18:53:30 and wouter and tumbleweed also have spare laptops 18:53:45 personally, I would suggest we try for it, but don't make a definite commitment to the scheduling team 18:53:58 #action wouter, tumbleweed, tassia to bring spare laptops 18:54:17 * wouter will need to back up the data on the x220 first, then :) 18:54:19 wouter, it would be the bof room, unmanned 18:54:24 tassia: we'd still want another camera, too 18:54:31 #info if it's really urgent, richih can spare his x220 and reinstall it for debconf 18:54:41 I have a DV camera, but am not sure if it still works 18:54:46 mm, that makes three x220s 18:54:53 it might be good to stick to that, so that we have unity of hardware 18:54:58 (more or less) 18:55:03 wouter, please bring it 18:55:09 wouter: emergency x220, as i would need it normally 18:55:14 but if we need it, we need it 18:55:14 ooer, my expresscard slotis a bit bent, might have to bring a pair of pliers :P 18:55:18 RichiH: oh, it's your regular laptop? 18:55:23 wouter: ilona's 18:55:28 RichiH: that's not an option then 18:55:37 mine is my n-1 laptop 18:55:52 onwards? 18:55:57 yes, please 18:56:05 don,t we need someone to check for a rental palce? 18:56:08 #action wouter to check whether he can still find the expresscard firewire modules 18:56:19 #topic FAI etc. 18:56:21 (otherwise need to buy some more, I guess my supplier still has them) 18:56:27 so, that was my action item, and I haven't got to it yet 18:56:30 but I'm still committed to it 18:56:31 pollo, tumbleweed will make the lisk, DLange will make the call 18:56:47 tumbleweed: did franklin do so? 18:56:56 #info I found some offers between 30-50 EUR for a 80x30x30@30kg box; will mail the list with details 18:56:57 not that I saw 18:57:02 list ow equipments and call the companies 18:58:07 same story for veyepar, I'm afraid. I'll try to get somewhere with both, today 18:58:25 and cate is still making progress on the volunteer system 18:58:36 tumbleweed: so we will postpone FAI for next meeting? 18:58:59 yeah. I feel pretty comfortable with it. I've done it before, I can do it again 18:59:01 (apparently my regular supplier still has ten models of firewire expresscard, all between €15 and €60 in price, so that should not be an issue) 18:59:38 wouter: reminds me: do you have any HDMI-VGA adapters? I'm guessing we'll need some this year 19:00:09 tumbleweed: FOSDEM bought 20+ of those 19:00:27 but they're all going to be inside a box by the end of the summer, IIUC, so we might not be able to use them 19:01:03 "inside a box" as in "hooked up and probably glued up together so they work for the FOSDEM workflow", which as of the most recent edition is no longer Debconf's 19:01:05 I remember spending some DC money on some at DC14. But don't know what happened to them 19:01:06 wouter: only three or four test sets are in various hands atm, the rest is in storage 19:01:32 meh, i may need to leave soonish 19:01:42 RichiH: I don't know the history behind fai and all that.. but possibly it is not needed to get too crazy about it, and just post a tarball somewhere and have the laptops ready before debcamp? 19:01:45 wouter: HDMI->VGA? (fosdem had an HMDI capture setup, so I'd assume they'd need VGA->HDMI adaptors) 19:01:54 Tincho: i personally don't care 19:01:55 tumbleweed: em, er, ah, yes, sorry 19:02:02 laptops need to work, rest is fluff 19:02:09 Tincho: no, that becomes unmanageable 19:02:14 the FAI setup is simple enough 19:02:21 we really really want a config management system for these laptops 19:02:26 (not that I'm a huge FAI fan, but we have something that works) 19:02:26 tumbleweed: _if_ the laptops are all the same model 19:02:30 FAI is as good as any other, as long as y ou understand it 19:02:35 RichiH: I don't think that matters 19:02:40 k 19:02:41 ok, I was just suggesting to keep it simple as there is not much time :) 19:02:48 I will shut up now 19:02:51 Tincho: in that case simple is FAI :) 19:02:55 yes 19:02:56 fair enough 19:03:05 * h01ger is more worried about the server side of workflow 19:03:14 yes, me too 19:03:23 (cause managing the laptops with fai is easy as tumbleweed said it is (and he knows)) 19:03:49 if i were in charge i would have gone with the ccc tools+workflows 19:04:19 what do we need to decide about the server side? 19:04:21 i think they were still happ to help, but that would be very very short notice 19:04:36 tumbleweed: how much time do you have during the next two weeks to check out veyepar? 19:04:39 h01ger: how different is it? 19:04:41 (and i'm not available to do that. i'm out.) 19:05:14 wouter: I have the time, I've been getting distracted. 19:05:40 tumbleweed: trouble is, if we figure out two days before debcamp that veyepar won't work, we're out of time to come up with a replacement 19:05:46 yeah 19:05:54 tumbleweed: main diff is the recording side has to be slightly different, always storing 2gb file chunks and then using a fuse system to access them raw and then another fuse system will have the results. it works really nicely, has post processing toolchain, up to an including uploads and rss feeds 19:06:48 h01ger: that does sound nice, but very different 19:07:07 http://paste.debian.net/284590/ are my notes about the mail i wanted to send, when i was still thinkin' i might be doing video at dc15 19:07:30 anyone here who's willing/has time to figure out whether that's something we could use? If not, I'm not sure this line of thought is leading anywhere 19:07:38 h01ger: note, not meant as criticism 19:08:18 that'd be the perfect thing to have sprinted on :( 19:08:25 ("engelsystem" is the ccc system to manage volunteers, which are calle "angels" (german: engels) in ccc lingo 19:08:27 ) 19:08:55 shall we finish up? 19:09:00 #topic Any Other Business? 19:09:06 um, hang on 19:09:06 so maybe an awesome hint for next year? 19:09:15 tumbleweed: its not totally impossible. debcamp will be when the VOC is online+active (=precccamp and cccamp) 19:09:42 h01ger, it is risky 19:09:51 tassia: so is going with veyepar at this point 19:10:04 we haven't done any tests, we're not even sure we can actually get it working by now+2weeks 19:10:15 what about what we had before veyepar? 19:10:24 tassia: i agree. the really risky point though is "managing (=avoiding) postprocessing" - whatever the tool is 19:10:26 we used to have a working workflow until dc13 19:10:30 that requires penta, which we've moved away from 19:10:31 tassia: that depended on penta 19:10:35 if you rely on postprocessing, you are lost 19:10:38 also, it was a crazy pile of hacks 19:10:47 tumbleweed: yes, but it *did* work ;) 19:10:48 h01ger: 100% 19:11:13 so you need to do "almost live processing", whatever the tool is. 19:11:35 h01ger: I trust your judgement on this, really: even if you're not volunteering to do the work, what would you think is most likely to succeed? 19:11:38 veyepar or the ccc thing? 19:11:44 so, is tumbleweed the one person able to play with that and make a decision? 19:12:08 tassia: well, he's the one who volunteered. I could if I had the time, which I don't. 19:12:10 anyone else volunteer to do that in the following week? 19:12:15 we've seen veyepar mostly work. There was post-processing, though 19:12:31 if someone could try set up the CCC thing, that'd be useful to compare 19:13:04 do we really want to go through a "set up both, compare, decide" cycle anymore at this point? 19:13:05