17:02:50 <tzafrir> #startmeeting DebConf 23 Team meeting: https://deb.li/dc23meet
17:02:50 <MeetBot> Meeting started Mon Mar  6 17:02:50 2023 UTC.  The chair is tzafrir. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
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17:03:00 <tzafrir> #topic Roll call
17:03:16 <srud> Hello
17:03:19 <[pirate]praveen> hi
17:03:20 <EnkelenaHaxhiu[m]> Hi
17:03:23 <PirateBady[m]> hi o/
17:03:36 <Anisa[m]> Hello o/
17:03:36 <anupaannjoseph[m]> Hi
17:03:40 <tumblingweed> Hi
17:03:49 <tzafrir> (And just updated the agenda, if you read it a few minutes ago)
17:03:53 <DLange> \o/
17:04:15 <DLange> #link https://deb.li/dc23meet
17:05:23 <tzafrir> #topic Venue contract signing
17:06:04 <srud> The hotel manager is yet to send the revised contract..
17:06:24 <tumblingweed> Good that it's not on us
17:06:28 <srud> After receiving that, we plan to send it to SPI for review and signing
17:07:13 <tzafrir> #topic Advance payment for Debconf 23 venue
17:07:28 <srud> This we can skip for noe
17:07:29 <srud> *now
17:07:33 <tzafrir> Right.
17:07:40 <tumblingweed> I assume those will go together
17:08:14 <tzafrir> #topic Website revamped website design needs review
17:08:26 <tzafrir> #link https://salsa.debian.org/debconf-team/public/websites/dc23/-/merge_requests/32
17:08:27 <tumblingweed> I'll look at that today
17:08:37 <bady> ok, thanks
17:08:47 <indiebio> hi
17:09:00 <bady> hi
17:09:26 <tzafrir> #topic Sponsors' Team:  Written agreement/MoU with FOSS United (waiting for DPL)
17:10:00 <[pirate]praveen> DPL sent one draft and I have some feedback
17:10:18 <[pirate]praveen> so finalizing the MoU document is pending
17:11:26 <tzafrir> #topic Sponsors' Team: Sponsorship tier of Infopark
17:12:20 <srud> I think we have reached a consensus to go with "Venue Partner"
17:12:45 <srud> Benefits, we think we can stick with Gold
17:13:04 <srud> Hope that goes well..
17:13:05 <DLange> great
17:14:25 <tzafrir> #topic: Visa Team: Update on organisation to assist with invite letters for conference visa
17:14:47 <tzafrir> Anything changed there?
17:15:12 <[pirate]praveen> it depends on confirmation from Infopark
17:15:45 <[pirate]praveen> if the letter is from a govt organization (infopark fits that requirement), conference visa will be easier
17:15:50 <DLange> is there a chance Infopark as a government organization can solve the Kosovo visa issue?
17:16:18 <srud> DLange: not likely..
17:16:34 <[pirate]praveen> Kosovo visa issue is unlikely to be resolved, as it needs the highest level of intervention.
17:17:13 <[pirate]praveen> and looking at some of the past cases including an international sports event, this seems unlikely
17:17:29 <DLange> I'd appreciate if you could try
17:17:49 <srud> DLange: we will try
17:17:54 <[pirate]praveen> we did ask some embassies
17:18:56 <tzafrir> #topic Registration
17:19:05 <kannan[m]> neither embassy, not e visa authority is ready to take responsibility
17:19:06 <tumblingweed> It seems like a query for the ministry of tourism or foreign affairs
17:19:08 <kannan[m]> nor*
17:19:33 <gwolf> o/
17:20:10 <gwolf> srud: Great to read that! (re: venue partner)
17:20:24 <srud> gwolf: :)
17:20:33 <indiebio> Is it an option for the people who want to attend from Kosovo to get a second passport? In other words, can we help from the other end?
17:20:41 <tzafrir> #undo
17:20:41 <MeetBot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Topic object at 0x11a3490>
17:20:57 <gwolf> DLange: Sadly, it's unlikely India will want to resolve the issue for Kosovar people :-( It seems there is a parallel they draw between Kosovo's independence and the situation in Kashmir :-(
17:21:11 <DLange> Both start with K? :D
17:21:12 <tumblingweed> Indiebio: A Serbian passport. I don't think they would do that
17:21:26 <gwolf> (don't ask me for details please 😉)
17:22:02 <gwolf> indiebio: I doubt our Kosovo people will want to go get a Serbian passport. They possibly would have the right for one, but would not welcome it
17:22:43 * indiebio grumbles there's a lot of things I don't want to do but do because of people in power being stupid
17:22:45 <[pirate]praveen> https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/india/india-dismisses-all-speculation-of-recognizing-kosovo-following-opening-of-private-trade-office/articleshow/95772670.cms
17:22:52 <EnkelenaHaxhiu[m]> I second Stefano Rivera: about asking the correct Ministry, if you have not done so
17:23:06 <kannan[m]> https://theprint.in/diplomacy/modi-jaishankar-should-treat-us-as-partner-allow-trade-travel-says-kosovo-ex-pm-haradinaj/1263795/
17:23:24 <DLange> I think the Indian ministry of foreign affairs should extend the same "we work around" courtesy to Kosovo people as the Kosovo ministry and embassy did to Indian people
17:23:24 <tzafrir> OK. Any other practical suggestions on this topic?
17:23:40 <srud> EnkelenaH[m]: we did try asking the External Affairs ministry..
17:23:53 <DLange> what did they respond?
17:25:23 <srud> It was not positive response.. Will dig for that and get back with exact response..
17:25:47 <DLange> ok, thanks. May be we can follow up on that somehow
17:26:23 <srud> As a last trial, we will try contacting them and some other ministries, though we don't have much hope
17:28:23 <DLange> cool, thanks
17:28:28 <kannan[m]> https://mea.gov.in/response-to-queries.htm?dtl/35921/Official+Spokespersons+response+to+media+queries+regarding+reports+on+the+opening+of+the+IndiaKosovo+Commercial+Economic+Office+in+New+Delhi
17:29:27 <EnkelenaHaxhiu[m]> kannan[m] (IRC): we know the situation. We were hoping your visa team would follow with private communication
17:29:48 <EnkelenaHaxhiu[m]> As you say it has. Sending links is welcome, but not really what we are looking for.
17:30:05 <DLange> yes, go for a work-around like the Kosovo team did. Noise is not helpful, we don't want to be subjected to global politics.
17:30:14 <DLange> We just need a few stickers and stamps :)
17:30:26 <kannan[m]> EnkelenaHaxhiu[m]: will ask MEA again.
17:30:35 <EnkelenaHaxhiu[m]> Thank you
17:30:56 <DLange> kannan[m]: ask them for a low key process to get 5 Kosovo people in for a conference. Nothing more.
17:32:05 <tzafrir> #topic Registration
17:32:42 <tzafrir> Last time it was decided to discuss the specifics.
17:32:48 <tumblingweed> See the ticket I opened last week, about changes we need for registration
17:33:02 <srud> We had registration meeting and ticket is opened
17:33:32 <tumblingweed> https://salsa.debian.org/debconf-team/public/websites/wafer-debconf/-/issues/39
17:33:46 <DLange> #link https://salsa.debian.org/debconf-team/public/websites/wafer-debconf/-/issues/39
17:33:55 <DLange> for the sake of the meeting log :)
17:35:12 <DLange> tumblingweed: can we accept paid registrations as in "pay now"? So that that "bypass channel" is not "downgrade later"?
17:35:28 <tumblingweed> That's a choice we have
17:35:55 <DLange> cool, thanks
17:36:00 <tumblingweed> Personally, I'm happy with allowing them to instantly approve when paid, until we decide to close that
17:36:10 <tumblingweed> Hey, it's less work like that :)
17:36:29 <pwaring> presumably we also need volunteers to review apps?
17:36:29 <[pirate]praveen> may be allow only to cancel and not downgrade
17:36:36 <DLange> ack. And if people pay (and not get accom), let them come
17:36:37 <tzafrir> In previous years, how many people registered but did not pay (of their own pockets or bursary) for food?
17:37:03 <tumblingweed> Usually we give free food to anyone who asks for it
17:37:08 <tzafrir> (rough proportion)
17:37:11 <tumblingweed> (because it's usually cheap enough)
17:37:18 <tumblingweed> So, the past numbers probably wouldn't be indicitive
17:38:21 <tzafrir> Anyone who asks, or in practice they pass though some of the filters you mention in your ticket?
17:38:37 <tumblingweed> I mean, in the past
17:39:07 <tumblingweed> This year we will have far more limited numbers of food bursaries (higher relative cost)
17:39:18 <tumblingweed> at least, that's the current assumption
17:39:41 <tumblingweed> It's an easy way to control numbers
17:40:28 <DLange> We can always implement a "langar" type serving (that's free veggie food at (Sikh) temples)
17:41:16 <tumblingweed> I think the venue contract may make that complex
17:41:30 <DLange> not at the venue, at Infopark or elsewhere
17:41:40 <[pirate]praveen> we won't be able serve like that in hotel, but it may be possible at infopark
17:41:56 <DLange> the mass of people would not be at the hotel (if there is a mass of people happening)
17:42:32 <tzafrir> But the bottleneck is people in the hotel, right?
17:42:54 <[pirate]praveen> food is included in the room package for people staying at the hotel
17:43:12 <tumblingweed> tzafrir: yes
17:46:18 <tzafrir> When do we open registration?
17:46:52 <srud> Hopefully by end of March
17:46:53 <tumblingweed> As soon as we can
17:46:57 <tumblingweed> Aiming for the end of March
17:47:58 <tzafrir> OK. So, right now I see some suggested changes. Any agreement on what we go for?
17:48:36 <tzafrir> Some of the changes must be implemented before registration starts.
17:49:49 <tumblingweed> If we're not trying to stop paid registrations, it does reduce the scope of work
17:50:08 <DLange> the bursary team could review registrations
17:50:33 <DLange> they do anyways, just with a different scope so far
17:51:04 <tumblingweed> Well we need to get the bursary team rolling then
17:51:04 <[pirate]praveen> even if don't enforce, the tiered registration could help in reducing the number of registrations that need review
17:51:12 <tumblingweed> A call for membership is probably in order
17:51:27 <DLange> utkarsh2102: ^ todo list :D
17:52:19 <tzafrir> So one required change is approving regisrations, right?
17:52:51 <tumblingweed> Doing that means several changes:
17:53:08 <tumblingweed> 1. Changing the messaging so that your registration isn't "confirmed" but "pending"
17:53:30 <tumblingweed> 2. Showing the pending/confirmed state somewhere on the profile
17:54:24 <tumblingweed> 3. Asking the questions that we want answered for reviewing the registrations (contribution level, etc.)
17:54:42 <tumblingweed> 4. Getting the team that will do the review to write up their criteria, and publish them
17:55:07 <tumblingweed> 5. Tracking registration order somewhere, to use as a review-priority / tie breaker
17:55:57 <tumblingweed> I think that's about it
17:56:20 <kannan[m]> good list tumblingweed , what would be workflow for paid registrations?
17:56:23 <DLange> I suggest for 4.: You are a DD or DM. Or you have one DD or DM advocate you for participation in the conference.
17:56:28 <tumblingweed> Oh, and the tooling to actually review and accept these attendees
17:56:50 <tumblingweed> DLange (IRC): advocation would be more complexity (unless it's handled by email)
17:57:12 <tumblingweed> kannan[m] (IRC): they'd register and be confirmed immediately
17:57:26 <DLange> tumblingweed: advocation is handled in the free form contribution field. Those not properly filled may get an email or not.
17:57:53 <DLange> Not everything has to be 100% wafer supported.
17:57:53 <tumblingweed> So people say "dlange advocates me"
17:57:56 <DLange> ack
17:58:19 <DLange> if the bursary team believes them, fine. If not they can ask.
17:58:26 <DLange> We all have IRC and email.
17:58:34 <[pirate]praveen> may be have a field for advocates, then send a mail for verification?
17:58:46 <DLange> too complicated
17:58:50 <DLange> this is a one-off
17:59:16 <DLange> nobody but India has this "the masses may storm the conference" issue
17:59:44 <[pirate]praveen> well masses storm at fossdem too
17:59:55 <[pirate]praveen> but the nature of the conference will change
17:59:57 <tumblingweed> FOSDEM expects and handles that
18:00:03 <tumblingweed> (and doesn't turn people away)
18:00:21 <tumblingweed> advocations could be a useful bursary tool in the future, but yeah I really don't want to be building a framework for it now
18:00:21 <DLange> we may need food carts in Kochi :D
18:01:05 <[pirate]praveen> the question is do we want to be like fossdem or not
18:01:14 <srud> We don't want to make DebConf as Fosdem
18:01:25 <tumblingweed> [pirate]praveen (IRC): I don't really understand the question
18:01:26 <srud> That's why we want to limit the numbers
18:01:54 <DLange> ack, that's why we have tumblingweed's proposal and will implement some limiting
18:02:01 <DLange> just process not IT system
18:02:05 <gwolf> *sigh* I only go back to thinking how many times we have feared to be swarmed by local attendees... lalalala
18:02:14 <DLange> 'cause we want to be done with it by end of this month
18:02:18 <gwolf> (then again, you _do_ know the reality of your country... I don't!)
18:02:38 <kannan[m]> [pirate]praveen: we can do this via mail too, in case we need tie breakers. sending mails to pending applicants to share the people advocate them.
18:02:43 <gwolf> (just a little little little bit)
18:03:13 <[pirate]praveen> tumblingweed, just that we could handle it too, but that will become like fossdem and not debconf
18:03:28 <kannan[m]> kannan[m]: we can forward that to the advocate and confirm it too, less complexity on the software.
18:03:45 <tumblingweed> [pirate]praveen (IRC): I don't think our venue will let us bring thousands of attendees on-site. UBL will
18:04:15 <tzafrir> [pirate]praveen: the discussion is about technical messures to avoid that.
18:04:34 <srud> Yes.. Let's focus on the technical measures now
18:04:37 <[pirate]praveen> not at this point, but if we wanted such a conference, we could have found another venue that will let thousands of people too
18:04:43 <[pirate]praveen> but this is digressing
18:05:11 <tumblingweed> Yeah. That's true, but yes, it's a digression :)
18:05:26 <tzafrir> So, I think we agreed we basically want to allow all paying participants, right?
18:05:43 <tumblingweed> Yes, until we decide otherwise
18:06:02 <tzafrir> And to basically use something similar ot the bursary system for others.
18:06:31 <DLange> yes, reviewing their filled forms for approval or denial of their registration
18:06:59 <tumblingweed> yep
18:08:15 <tzafrir> OK. LEt's move on?
18:08:26 <tzafrir> #topic Merch
18:08:44 <tzafrir> There was also some unfinished discussion about this last week
18:10:25 <tzafrir> Anybody from the local team looked into this? THere was a question about ad-hoc selling.
18:10:52 <anupaannjoseph[m]> Nothing from my side for now. Looking into possible options.
18:11:09 <tzafrir> OK. Follow up next meeting?
18:11:24 <anupaannjoseph[m]> Yes
18:11:30 <tzafrir> Great.
18:11:50 <tzafrir> #topic Meeting Schedule
18:12:53 <tzafrir> 20th March, 3rd April, same time, same place
18:13:09 <tzafrir> #topic AOB
18:13:19 <highvoltage> [pirate]praveen: I'll have that mou updated tomorrow
18:13:39 <tzafrir> I'll just note regarding Haifa that I'm still working on it.
18:13:55 <[pirate]praveen> highvoltage, thanks
18:14:31 <tzafrir> Anything else?
18:15:06 <DLange> thank you for running the meeting \o/ :)
18:15:13 <utkarsh2102> DLange: noted! :D
18:15:15 <tzafrir> #endmeeting