18:00:12 #startmeeting 18:00:12 Meeting started Mon Jul 5 18:00:12 2021 UTC. The chair is nattie. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 18:00:12 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 18:00:20 one is in August and the other one in July but both has planning on Mondays 18:00:28 for voluenteers 18:00:35 #link https://deb.li/dc21meet agenda, as ever 18:00:40 #topic roll call 18:00:43 * bittin- is here 18:00:44 say hi if you're here 18:00:46 if not, don't 18:00:56 o/ 18:01:07 hi if you're here 18:01:28 * nattie hands DLange the prize 18:01:45 here 18:01:46 just checking in 18:01:50 * DLange prepares a thank you speech 18:02:05 here sorta, off and on 18:02:07 my be slow as I am copying stuff to an external hdd and it seems to be slowing things down 18:02:29 o/ 18:02:31 hi 18:02:45 looks like a reasonably full complement now 18:02:52 #topic last meeting's actions 18:03:00 #info there were no action items at the last meeting 18:03:14 #topic cut-off strategy for USD50 bursaries 18:03:49 The bursaries team asks whether to err on the side of caution or generosity when allocating the bursaries which go up to the value of USD50 each 18:04:17 copied from agenda: 18:04:19 Options are: grant to ... 1) people we know or wrote reasonable arguments (possibly err on the side of not reaching out to everybody), 2) anybody not clearly a scammer (possibly err on the side of being generous) [Info, total is currently 21-06-24 600 USD] 18:04:27 i would say caution 1: 18:04:55 Tobi_: are you Tobias Preuss? 18:05:11 if we have the money, I would say 2 18:05:24 Hi. Yes 18:05:41 I would tend towards 1 18:05:42 cool, welcome. the item about EventFahrplan is next up, so good timing 18:06:08 2:1 so far, nattie what's your take? 18:06:08 Nice 18:06:25 DLange: how big is the difference between the two options? 18:06:29 we always want to attract a wider audience, but we're not trying to buy it 18:06:45 nattie: probably 500 USD 18:07:06 instinctively i would say err towards caution 18:07:13 i agree there 18:07:33 there's the slight risk of missing a legitimate applicant, i suppose 18:07:41 so 4:1, that's good enough. We'll be cautious then but not restrictive 18:07:52 5:1 18:08:03 #agreed the bursaries team will be cautious but not restrictive when allocating these bursaries 18:08:06 thanks 18:08:14 #topic EventFahrplan 18:08:30 Tobi_: sorry to plunge you into it directly, but: speeeeeeeeeeeak :) 18:09:00 for context: Tobi_ has proposed EventFahrplan as a potential replacement for things like Giggity 18:09:28 How much do you know already? What can I add? 18:09:36 as an Android app to watch the Schedule: https://github.com/EventFahrplan/EventFahrplan 18:09:48 #link https://lists.debian.org/debconf-team/2021/07/msg00001.html 18:09:55 ^Tobi's email to -team 18:10:11 #link https://eventfahrplan.eu/ 18:10:16 (just for completeness) 18:10:18 thx 18:10:19 i saw your email and think its a good idea, but want also to keep the schedule as a webpage and iCal to import to my Google Calendar, but having an Android app is also a good idea 18:10:36 #link https://github.com/EventFahrplan/EventFahrplan 18:10:49 i would think that EventFahrplan would be in addition to the schedule on the website, not to replace it 18:10:57 sounds good 18:11:09 is that impression correct? 18:11:16 * tumbleweed still needs to look at the differences between frab and pentabarf xml 18:11:33 Did you ever take a look at Pretalx or Frab? 18:11:44 Both are successors of Pentabarf? 18:11:50 Both are successors of Pentabarf. 18:11:51 that's too German, Tobi_ 18:11:52 more Pretalx to be honest 18:12:01 they are not really used outside the CCC bubble 18:12:03 DLange: wait, we know Germans?! 18:12:07 * terceiro here now (sorry, got distracted.) 18:12:35 DLange: its different systems used for tickets and planning and well Arch Linux Conference Online last year used Pretalx so used that a bit there and used it a bit but more as a user at FOSDEM/FSCons frab that is 18:12:36 Tobi_: no, we went from pentabarf to summit to wafer 18:12:54 +1 to schedule as a webpage and calender file 18:13:04 zleap: this is the status quo 18:13:48 ok 18:13:51 I agree that an app is always "just" an addition to the webpage, ical, ... 18:13:51 I do like the defined XML schema that frab xml has, pentabarf XML compatibility in wafer was the result of a lot of guessing, and doing whatever made giggity happy 18:14:34 is the ical not something that can be consumed by the app? 18:14:41 is there anything that we need to decide? I mean, if there is a patch to provide the schedule in whatever format is needed, then it happens. otherwise ... 18:14:53 I mean that sounds most logical for a schedule of calendar entries essentially?!? 18:15:45 ical is not supported at this point in time 18:16:08 what does the thunderbird calender thing iport ? 18:16:11 import 18:16:13 ical :) 18:16:19 ok 18:16:30 Tobi_: some of the features eventfahrplan has seem to require backend support (comments, etc.) 18:17:00 what would the plan be there? would we just go without those? 18:17:30 true. rating/comments are submitted into the backend being used such as Frab or Pretalx 18:17:49 no idea if your backend has such a feature (?) 18:17:52 nope 18:18:04 neither ratings nor comments 18:18:30 the app works w/o the feature - no problem 18:19:02 OK 18:19:18 then, is it a single app? or do you build per-conference apps? 18:19:37 per-conference 18:20:39 OK. If you're happy to do that for us, that's pretty nice, thanks 18:20:54 I don't think we'd customize much this year, just the schedule 18:21:04 just to figure out how to get the schedule from wafer to the app 18:21:08 i think its a good addition 18:21:14 but if it could link to live streams and matrix rooms, that'd neat 18:21:19 that'd *be* neat 18:22:02 If links are added as part of the schedule as then they are picked up by the app 18:22:48 OK 18:23:40 so maybe the rtmp streams can be linked? 18:24:04 so one can open them up with vlc on android for example? 18:24:30 bittin-: probably the HLS streams, RTMP can't automatically select quality, frontend, etc. 18:24:36 tumbleweed: ah 18:24:47 well video is not my best subject 18:25:08 Tobi_: I'll have a quick go at implementing a frab xml generator 18:25:20 I don't have any more questions 18:25:29 so are we happy to go with it? 18:26:04 Tobi_: is there anything you would concretely need from us? just the schedule itself? volunteers to help out? 18:26:09 Do you want me to set up the app or is there anyone in your team who wants to do it? 18:26:14 wouldn't it make more sense to adapt the app to consume ical? 18:26:31 I guess the current XML might even work as it's not too far from frab; at last giggity and confclerk understand both. which also means that bringing wafer's xml expoert closer to frab shouldn't be a problem in case that's needed. (and having a define schema would be good in general.) 18:26:32 As a general improvement that makes it more useful for other events? 18:26:40 Sounds like a feature request ^^ 18:26:56 still what gregoa says is true, too 18:27:00 seems like a small delta 18:28:39 EventFahrplan needs the Frab-compatible format - I know from painful error analysis sessions. 18:29:45 from you I would need a few assets such as SVG logo and such - I can send details later if you like 18:30:19 create an issue under https://salsa.debian.org/debconf-team/public/websites/dc21/ 18:31:04 Open question: Is there any sponsor or budget to support the project - me working on EventFahrplan in my freetime - helping to sustain it? 18:31:48 not really, all the wafer development is spare time of our devs, too 18:31:53 terceiro: me? 18:32:48 Tobi_: yes, that's the place to send details later to 18:33:04 so it doesn't get lost in peoples mailboxes 18:33:30 Would you do all the advertisement on social media channels? People do no find/install the app if it is not well promoted. 18:33:56 DC21 logo is here https://salsa.debian.org/debconf-team/public/websites/dc21/-/blob/master/assets/img/dc21-logo.svg 18:34:00 i think we could certainly mention it! 18:34:02 or put up a link to it on the schedule page/website maybe ? 18:34:25 I am on Mastodon so could promote there (qoto) given the nature of blocking it could be a good way to ensure good reach to people 18:34:52 20:30 create an issue under https://salsa.debian.org/debconf-team/public/websites/dc21/ 18:34:59 sorry mispaste 18:35:03 https://salsa.debian.org/debconf-team/public/websites/dc21/-/blob/master/pages/schedule/mobile.md 18:35:28 was the intended paste ^, this page we could add EventFahrplan as well 18:35:39 (once it works for DC21 Online) 18:37:00 Mastadon, website, ... would be very important to my experience. Not sure which user check the repository. 18:37:05 sounds good to me 18:37:42 Tobi_: that's a template for the page on the main website 18:37:53 so that's where the info and links would end up 18:37:59 well I am just on qoto.org (instance) which is STEM focussed so i can make posts without it being off topic(ish) for the instancer 18:38:02 instance 18:38:17 I there is no budget by the conference or sponsors - it would be fair if you could at least mention to users that they can support the development themselves. Ack? 18:39:00 Tobi_: get something working first 18:39:23 DLange: thanks for the clarification about the website 18:40:02 I don't want to be rude but we are on this for 30 minutes, can we move on? 18:40:13 yes, sounds reasonable 18:40:15 should we return to this topic at the next meeting? 18:40:19 thanks for joining Tobi_! 18:40:23 Will you ping me about the schedule format once it is ready? 18:40:29 Thanks for your time! 18:40:38 Tobi_: yes 18:40:48 who wants to take that action item? 18:41:11 tumbleweed: can you? 18:41:21 yes 18:41:25 #action tumbleweed to ping Tobias Preuss about the schedule format once it's ready 18:41:40 shall we revisit this at the next meeting, just for an update? 18:42:00 update 18:42:05 yeah 18:42:09 ok 18:42:20 #topic Budget 18:42:52 my apologies, still working on figures for t-shirts and shipping 18:43:06 for the moment, should we use last year's numbers? 18:43:16 nah, we'd just need to send the budget for DPL approval 18:43:27 and that needs current numbers not last year's :) 18:44:05 i could try to project something based on the uptake for shirts we have at the moment 18:44:08 we're at 412 registrations with t-shirts 18:44:22 cut off date for swag is ... when? 18:44:28 25th 18:44:34 so just under 3 weeks from now 18:45:00 so probably wait for this and have everything ready to send to the DPL a day or so later 18:45:01 this is about 2x last year? 18:45:10 can we make it the 25th or the N t-shirts, whatever happens first? 18:45:12 or we project and budget 18:46:09 can we get logistics cost down over last year? That was at least the intention ... last year 18:46:32 because the T-shirts are not the issue, the issue is UPSing them around the globe one at a time 18:46:35 yes, i should think so - i've got more local distributors in place 18:46:41 great! 18:47:18 So do an estimate for 500 and then let's get DPL approval? 18:47:51 sure. that will take some time as it will involve a few people, but that's fine 18:47:52 I mean if 5000 people register by the deadline we won't be sending free swag anyways, so we can as well set an upper bound for registrations. 18:48:27 DLange: +1 18:48:45 I think the system even supports that> 18:48:46 +1 18:48:51 i guess this is where local lugs are useful as potentially you can send to 1 person to be given out to people 18:48:52 sure 18:49:20 zleap: not sure if many LUGs hang out locally with covid however 18:49:20 remember meeting people in person? that used to be a thing! 18:49:34 nattie: yeah hopefully its a thing again in 2022 18:49:36 most are on hold 18:49:49 Kosovo is preparing already 18:49:50 bittin-: at which point we won't need quite as much shipping for t-shirts 18:49:52 but yeah when they do meet that could be a way round this 18:49:57 nattie: true 18:50:02 what about stickers etc ? 18:50:25 some swag will be available 18:50:27 not sure if Debconf have had stickers but i can be wrong? 18:50:50 https://www.freewear.org/Debian has some swag, but they don't ship again until September 18:50:51 there have been promotional stickers for future debconfs in the past, but those were generally small-scale efforts 18:51:06 due to they only take care of online conference things atm 18:51:18 + to they* 18:51:29 i think we can move on to the next item now 18:51:40 #topic Update from Content 18:51:47 terceiro: tell us things 18:51:59 ok 18:52:05 Was scheduling earlier today? or did i add that to my calendar wrong? 18:52:13 so we missed our original deadline for sending out acceptance notification 18:52:28 bittin-: I have no idea what you mean by scheduling 18:52:32 we are almost done, and those should go out soon™ 18:52:40 nattie: scheduling talks etc as the CFP Deadline was yesterday 18:53:05 that would be the domain of the Content Team, anyway 18:53:16 ah 18:53:21 the list of accepted talks should be published soon™ 18:53:29 ah 18:53:34 the schedule will probbaly take a couple of weeks 18:53:45 but things are progressing 18:53:49 that's the report 18:54:01 #info The list of accepted talks should be published shortly; the schedule will probably appear in several weeks 18:54:10 ok 18:54:11 #topic Community team update 18:54:28 Our Community Team representative had to head out, but has asked me to pass along the following: 18:55:08 #link https://lists.debian.org/debconf-announce/2021/07/msg00000.html Call for participation in the Incident Response team 18:55:29 Sorry to jump back. Is there a fixed date when the schedule will be online? Please mind that published the app takes a while too which I cannot influence. 18:55:51 Tobi_: We'll address that during AOB 18:56:28 There has been some response to the mail, and the Community Team will discuss how to proceed during their next meeting, on Thursday 18:56:45 #info Community Team will discuss response to their call for involvement on Thursday 18:57:06 Also, for the avoidance of doubt, Community Team will *not* be monitoring all channels at all times 18:57:31 i think that brings us to the next item 18:57:35 #topic scheduling the next meeting 18:57:39 thereby reducing the budget for coffee 18:57:55 Should we stay fortnightly for now? 18:58:03 i would 18:58:08 yeah, seems still reasonable 18:58:16 i think once we're within a month of DebConf itself, we could move weekly 18:58:19 even if there isn't much of an update 18:58:22 may be we have a budget by then, nudge, nudge :) 18:58:22 so end of this month/beginning of August 18:58:23 least once more 18:58:34 (cant attend next time then as i will help out at GUDEC then) but should be able to join all dates after that 18:58:56 *(GUADEC) 18:59:09 are people good with moving to weekly from the 2nd of August onwards? 18:59:15 yes 18:59:41 y 18:59:42 sounds good, too 18:59:48 2 weeks from now puts us at the 19th of July 18:59:59 #agreed next meeting 19 July, 18:00 UTC 19:00:05 #topic AOB 19:00:12 would anyone like to address Tobi_'s question? 19:01:05 I think tumbleweed would be the one to know, because without a consumable xml, the schedule availability won't matter to EventFahrplan as is 19:01:09 so, we haven't published a date that the schedule will be published on 19:01:20 Tobi_: how much time do you think you need? 19:02:10 we can always publish a fake schedule on wafertest.debconf.org (e.g. copy the one from last year and s/2020/2021/ 19:02:46 copy from last year is totally fine. 19:02:54 i guess it's less the content and more the format 19:03:02 or we can deploy the code change to https://mdco2.mini.debconf.org/ 19:03:03 worst case to expect is 3 weeks. 19:03:06 depends on how much it takes to update in production i guess? 19:03:41 I will need the final URL before publishing the app. 19:03:59 If you redirect on the server does not matter to me 19:04:40 or even better https://in2021.mini.debconf.org/schedule/ for a good unicode test :) 19:05:44 Does the server support ETAG? 19:06:29 not atm 19:06:46 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTP_ETag 19:07:08 would be nice so schedule updates work correctly 19:08:02 For icalendar schedules, the most recent update timestamp is in the file itself 19:08:15 seabass[m]: the app does not support iCal however 19:08:43 neither our ical nor xml exports have etag / last-modified dates 19:08:51 only .xml also we are over time 19:09:20 we can discuss details 1:1 later somewhen 19:09:34 I don't think we have the necessary metadata to implement them, either 19:10:34 metadata? 19:10:44 this does seem like something for further discussion after the meeting 19:10:48 do you mind awfully? 19:11:00 not now 19:11:10 Tobi_: as in, the system doesn't know when the schedule was last changed 19:11:37 I see. Let 19:11:53 let's talk another day 19:12:04 you can actually continue talking directly in a few minutes! 19:12:14 i'd just like to conclude the formal part of the meeting 19:12:26 please ;-) 19:12:33 anything else before i close? 19:12:41 i don't think so, thanks all 19:12:50 not from me, will be back in 4 weeks 19:12:50 Thanks everyone for attending! 19:12:53 np 19:13:00 see several of you in a fortnight! 19:13:03 #endmeeting