17:59:17 #startmeeting DebConf20 team meeting 17:59:17 Meeting started Mon Jul 6 17:59:17 2020 UTC. The chair is tzafrir. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 17:59:17 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 17:59:31 #addchair nattie 17:59:41 yeah, tag teaming! 17:59:41 #topic roll call 17:59:50 here kinda 18:00:05 o/ 18:00:10 ~o~ 18:00:11 \o 18:00:12 hi 18:00:14 aye 18:00:39 quantumly superpositioned 18:00:44 hey 18:01:52 hola 18:02:40 #topic Last week's actions 18:03:06 One action: highvoltage to email TOs about the DC20 reimbursement process 18:03:24 He doesn't seem to be present. 18:03:37 he mentioned yesterday that he'd contacted them 18:04:01 I have some bits on that subject, maybe we want to add an explicit topic for it? 18:04:37 OK, please do. 18:05:01 moin 18:05:32 pause music ~ the Agenda pad is being edited ~ pause music 18:05:40 So let's switch to that topic? 18:05:49 let's 18:05:49 #topic Reimbursement process 18:06:26 ok. I worked on the registration forms during the weekend, and implemented a new bursary category "expenses reimbursement". 18:06:29 my question is 18:06:39 do we really need attendees to select TOs upfront? 18:07:16 waiting for this type of detail might delay registration even more 18:07:36 AIUI, we have always done that "behind the scenes", by the treasurers / bursaries 18:08:16 terceiro: I'm sure we could do that afterwards 18:08:18 yeah, we can assign this in the backend but it depends on whether highvoltage gets one process for all of them, not? 18:08:33 I think understanding which TO works best... is too much of a hassle for every attendee to think about individually... it is better to create knowledge 18:08:38 because otherwise we'd need different forms or a superset of everything 18:08:52 o/ 18:08:55 my other meeting ended so here now 18:09:00 although if different TOs have different rules, we'd probably need to communicate those to attendees early 18:09:03 (sorry had to talk to a neighbour who was complaining about another neighbour) 18:09:20 lol, highvoltage 18:09:59 I'm working on answers asap but in the meantime I'll jump in on bursaries and if we have to take on some more admin there if it can open registration earlier then we'll do that 18:10:38 highvoltage: the question is we don't want the people registering to choose TOs right? 18:10:48 i.e. we can assign TOs latter by ourselves 18:11:11 I guess details about the reimbursement procedure can come later as well 18:11:19 my concern is opening registration ASAP 18:11:56 because we also need to close them, specially the reimbursement part, with some lead time before debconf 18:12:09 terceiro: yeah I think we can do that afterwards for sure 18:12:28 #agreed participants need not select a Trusted Organization at registration time 18:12:51 Anything more on that subject? 18:12:52 I don't think we will be swamped in reimbursement requests this time - AIUI our main complexity (and volume) comes from travel (bursaries)... 18:12:55 I think we need at least one TO on board with the scheme, before we can open reg for it 18:13:19 I expect by far most attendees will not require reimbursement of any kind 18:13:35 I don't want to be promising reibursement that we can't deliver on 18:13:51 tumbleweed: 2/3 TOs are on board with this 18:13:55 nice 18:13:59 i guess quite a few attendees will not register at all 18:14:14 yeah I remember we needed to know that legal/fiscal feasibility of the whole thing 18:14:14 highvoltage: excellent 18:14:21 tumbleweed: the biggest one has issues unrelated to us which is causing a bit of a delay 18:14:34 joostvb: don't you have to register to get the stream links etc or will they be posted public? 18:14:51 they are always made public 18:14:58 so there is no _real_ need for people to register 18:15:04 ah 18:15:21 ...people that register _might_ get some extras - i.e. the ability to participate proposing talks, receiving a shirt, etc. 18:15:44 also I will plead people to register to have a decent picture of attendance timezones 18:15:59 yeah, that would be nice 18:16:05 FWIW I think we are done with this topic 18:16:06 terceiro: it will always be incomplete (and overcomplete) 😉 18:16:13 +1 to what terceiro says 18:16:28 So, next item: 18:16:51 #topic t-shirts 18:17:21 we have a logo, and some layout proposals 18:17:36 Was me that proposed this was wondering if it has been decided how/where the t-shirts should be printed and what logo/design etc? 18:17:50 if i remembered correctly there was some discussions yesterday but missed those 18:18:16 #link https://salsa.debian.org/lenharo/drafts/-/blob/lenharo/DC20/DC20_Tshirts.svg 18:18:28 #info we have printing proposals from Taiwan and from Brazil 18:18:37 #link https://salsa.debian.org/maierjeff-guest/random-stuff/-/blob/master/DC20_Tshirts-alternatives.svg 18:19:31 * bittin^ likes Black and Red that feels Debian 18:19:37 and we have designs from Brazil and Brazil :) 18:20:07 ah finally a black t-shirt proposal 18:20:22 i think local printing is better at this moment. Will have more flexibility. Having an international supplier, could delay too much 18:20:23 there is also the diversity version of the logo, but that will most likely only work if we choose one particular supplier (Printful) 18:20:34 AIUI the colors are just examples 18:20:48 nattie: would say that would work maybe as an extra t-shirt or such as said in the meeting last week 18:20:54 bittin^: Yes. Sliding into off-topicness, while I appreciate having a "diversity option" in our winning logo... The logo looks _much better_ IMO in its monochrome version (red) than in the rainbow one. 18:21:04 bittin^: yeah, i'm the one who said that 18:21:16 yes, i use black and white, just to see how it work. we could use any primary color. 18:21:26 (looks like the last #topic didn't register) 18:21:44 So is there anything with t-shirts that blocks opening registration? 18:21:52 #topic t-shirts 18:22:08 tzafrir: not really, the sizes are in my MR already 18:22:26 * tumbleweed will review 18:22:41 it's not blocking registrations, but it would be nice if we decided on a plan with enough lead time 18:23:10 and empower the volunteer(s?) to go ahead with the process 18:23:42 sizes will be different per region then 18:23:52 how do we want to sort that? 18:23:55 depending on the decision we make 18:25:32 DLange, most of sizes is similar in all suppliers. 18:25:49 and any differences can be converted as we go 18:25:51 gee, that's true for you and me lenharo but others :o) 18:25:57 which we've done previously 18:26:05 just guessing here would it not be better to use Printful or something that ships around the world, be easier then making t-shirts in like a lot of countries, but i bet you already discussed this so i guess you know better then me 18:26:05 lenharo proposed a sizes chart, and we will need to make sure suppliers follow that or we need to do the conversion 18:26:47 is there any reason not to make a decision on design and printers today? 18:27:00 we're not waiting for any more information, right? 18:27:23 it feels like getting those choices finalized will allow us to move on 18:28:09 AIUI we are even time-pressed to get the printing started 18:28:14 yeah 18:28:33 so, I see two implied choices here 18:28:49 1. local printing (which doesn't have defined printers, but I guess brazil and taiwan?) 18:29:03 2. printful (or similar, but nobody has proposed any alternatives) 18:29:11 Do we have a price comparison? 18:29:18 Of the two components (printing and sending) 18:29:25 That's the main point we need to decide... 18:29:39 I have the feeling doing it via printful will be WAY easier on us 18:29:47 Is the quality comparable? 18:29:51 otherwise we will need a lot of volunteer time for handling logistics... 18:30:11 shipping from Brazil to others countries is too expansive. 18:30:28 printing here, is about 5USD 18:30:34 lenharo: So what do you suggest if we print in .br? 18:30:47 we can do both 18:31:09 local production for "demand hubs" and "buy your own online" for everybody else 18:31:22 we don't need exclusivity 18:31:38 of course, we don't need to have a single provider for everybody. Of course, it adds some complexity. But it's possible. How expensive is printing+shipping a single shirt in printful? 18:31:41 but some 100 T-Shirts in one location would be good for decent prices 18:31:53 We have a couple tens people in Brazil (+Mercosur, I'd add probably) 18:32:32 gwolf, as i see, printful is about 15USD to print, and 10-15USD to ship 18:33:03 may be Brazil can ship to the US as well? 18:33:21 quite a bit more expensive, yes. 18:33:23 https://www.printful.com/shipping#shipping-rates 18:33:46 there is also Cafepress and Spreadshirt that some Swedish Demoparties that moved online last weekend used, but not sure what it costs and how much money will go to Debian and how much % the printing/shipping company will steal 18:33:58 it sounds like this is a technical decision. I propose we empower the people doing the work to decide on the specifics 18:34:23 lenharo: printful is US$6 to ship the first item 18:34:27 so that's 1 t-shirt USA €3.60, EU €3.69 … worldwide €5.45 18:34:29 terceiro: sounds like a good idea 18:34:38 lenharo: are you OK with terceiro's proposal? 18:35:17 yes. But i would like some help too. 18:36:11 how about layout? 18:36:37 we could do another poll? 18:36:41 we were previously talking about masks too. Nobody has mentioned those yet, today 18:36:41 two questions, front and back? 18:36:49 nattie: I wouldn't want to spend a week polling 18:37:12 unless we're very confident that we can print & ship in a couple of weeks 18:37:31 tumbleweed: overdemocratic decisions are slow by design 18:37:37 in that case, let's just take a quick straw poll in here? 18:37:38 If we are to do it, we should hurry 18:37:43 tumbleweed: maybe decide now or a couple of days 18:38:01 After the meeting? 18:38:16 I'd love to have the t-shirt team say: Here's what we propose to do. Any objections? 18:38:31 good idea 18:38:37 that can include design too 18:38:40 that is where I'm trying to get as well 18:38:51 one person taking care of the whole T-Shirt situation would be awesome 18:39:01 like assign batches to locations as well etc 18:39:15 so we don't have too many in one location and too few in others 18:39:18 and a huge task, too 18:39:27 it is a huge task, I agree 18:39:38 it can be a bigger or smaller task, depending on the approach used 18:39:50 (e.g. using printful can massively lighten the load) 18:40:02 I would very much rather pay a bit more to a company that has the needed logistics internally, not doing several stages of delivery 18:40:06 and the people who will be doing that work, are the best ones to make that decision 18:40:08 Anyway - I will leave now 18:40:49 o/ gwolf 18:41:13 seems we have no volunteer(s)? 18:41:32 personally I'm fine with no T-Shirts, too 18:41:46 it's sorted 18:41:48 (we did not promise the perk to sponsors, so no obligations from that side) 18:42:02 download the logos and create your own? 18:42:04 I thought lenharo volunteered already last week? 18:42:06 My opinion is that the advantages of printful are too big 18:42:16 but anyway, o/ ! 18:42:27 пон 06 20:36 < lenharo> yes. But i would like some help too. 18:42:57 I read that to mean help for the local production and distribution 18:43:05 not take over the whole responsibility 18:43:53 i can do this 18:43:55 can local groups who want to print a bunch of t-shirts ask for reimbursements? 18:43:55 well we need someone to organize the process and make sure it happens; as with other things we don't expect that person to do everything alone 18:44:16 (I mean, yes they can, but, are we going to tell them somewhere?) 18:44:53 would they need to take care of production for registrants in their region? 18:45:13 I would assume so 18:45:37 then we should distribute that into to -team 18:46:05 I guess we want a "chain of trust" a bit?!? 18:46:21 another stupid question: does all regions have someone that has time with that, i agree with gwolf that Printful or such would be better 18:46:43 it will likely end up being a combination of both 18:46:43 but thats just my personal opinion 18:46:52 services like printful won't reach everyone in time 18:46:53 highvoltage +1 18:47:07 not that they have to reach everyone in time 18:47:11 (my local postal service has been unavailable for months now) 18:47:26 gee, highvoltage will knit his own :) 18:47:27 also true, but some might like to get together and make their own 18:47:42 highvoltage: FCVO "get together", but yeah 18:47:44 alas, I have no time to knit 18:48:09 this discussion doesn't seem to be going anywhere useful 18:48:17 true, just fun 18:48:20 if anyone would like to print locally, I'd say they should be talking to lenharo 18:48:25 ASAP 18:48:25 yep 18:48:37 #agreed lenharo will be in charge of producing t-shirts 18:48:44 so, let's talk about next steps 18:48:57 do we need to set any deadlines here 18:49:01 #topic Open the Registrations ? 18:49:09 bittin^: wait 18:49:12 tumbleweed: okay 18:49:34 #agreed local groups who wish to print shirts on their own should coordinate with lenharo ASAP 18:49:37 Topic? 18:49:39 lenharo: any idea when we need to start printing? 18:49:53 I guess this depends on suppliers 18:50:00 tumbleweed, to have t-shirts before DC, i think we have to order before july 27. 18:50:21 for brazil? 18:50:55 even to printfull or similar. 2-3 weeks usually to delivery. 18:51:14 so suggesting a deadline 1-2 weeks before that? 18:51:20 it seems it'll take them about 1 week to print, at the moment 18:51:26 in EU 18:51:33 and 1 month in US 18:52:19 we'de previously said july 12th could be the swag registration deadilne 18:52:26 given that's a week from now, that's probably too soon 18:52:32 yeah 18:52:52 we could aim for 19th? or 26th? 18:53:08 26th would give us 3 weeks to order, print, ship 18:53:42 is that reasonable? 18:53:44 yeah 18:54:01 I think we need to accept that some/most people will get it after dc20 18:54:02 it's a huge problem if for some people don't received on time? 18:54:07 it probably means people in large parts of the world won't get it in time 18:54:24 #agreed deadline for registration with t-shirt: Jul-26th 18:54:28 OK 18:54:49 So, that means we have 3 weeks to select suppliers and finalize designs 18:55:16 if you want to call for more local groups to print locally, that probably needs to happen this week 18:55:26 if you want to get a test print from printful to EU, there's probably time 18:56:00 i will talk in person to correios (Brasil postal office) to see if have a cheap way to send. 18:56:01 lenharo: is there anything else you need from us right now? 18:56:22 tumbleweed, probably not 18:56:40 OK, shall we move on? 18:56:52 awesome, thanks lenharo for taking that job up! 18:57:05 can always continue to t-shirt discussion next week also and thanks lenharo for taking care of the job 18:57:18 I'd really prefer it if the t-shirt discussions continude outside the meetings rather than in them 18:57:25 +1 18:57:26 lenharo: fwiw cheap is probably not very reliable atm, probably better to send with courier 18:57:35 #topic Open registration 18:57:38 it'd be nice to be confirming decisons in meetings, rather than throwing new ideas around 18:58:13 decisions need proposals though :) 18:58:14 So, what's blocking it right now? 18:58:16 it feels like the same questions and answers run in a loop sometimes :) 18:58:27 * tumbleweed needs to do some review 18:58:34 thanks for picking a lot of this up, terceiro 18:58:53 if we get the code in, we should be able to open later this week 18:59:02 Anything that needs discussing here? 18:59:09 not really 18:59:40 we still need instructions for the expense reimbursements 18:59:50 it seems like stripe payment may come together in time for registration, too 18:59:54 but it's just work of writing it, not need to block everyone with ti 18:59:59 tumbleweed: o/ 19:00:30 Anything on that topic? 19:01:07 #topic AoB 19:01:23 Any other business? 19:01:41 not from me, another meeting same time next week ? 19:02:26 I not, next meeting is on Mon, Jul-13 19:02:53 now that the CFP closed, we could possibly discuss the rough outline of th conf? 19:03:27 and/or did we tell the content team how many slots they need to/can fill? 19:03:35 At the meeting, or after? 19:03:56 I don't know 19:04:23 after is probably better 19:04:23 maybe it makes sense to put that on next week's agenda, there will probably be a few more late submissions 19:04:40 yeah 19:04:53 do we need to block everytone to discuss that? 19:04:59 not really 19:05:08 how many submissions do you have so far? 19:05:12 ~55 19:05:17 cool :) 19:05:21 may be a content team meeting? 19:05:45 nice and yeah sounds like a good idea 19:06:17 ok, it was just usally decided in the whole team how many tracks and slots there will be IIRC 19:06:29 anyway, NOB from me 19:07:16 sure the decision can be made here, but we need to do some homework before that to not drive everyone crazy 19:08:20 Anyway, of those there are roughly 40 of 45 minutes, and one sprint. 19:08:30 FTR: feedback from SOTM was that two parallel tracks, 10hrs, over two days ways too dense while some people found the breaks in the schedule too long 19:08:45 indiebio has all the glory details and a pad with feedback as well 19:08:53 what's SOTM? 19:08:56 (don't want to share that here) 19:09:02 State of the map i think? 19:09:04 State Of The Map 19:09:08 ok, thanks 19:09:15 ~the OpenStreetMap DebConf 19:09:19 Openstreetmap conference if i don't remember wrong 19:09:56 Anyway, I guess we can continue this discussion following the meeting, right? 19:10:14 +1 19:10:45 #agreed Next meeting is on Mon Jul-13-2020 at 18:00 UTC 19:10:55 sounds good, will watch Dreamhack Tonight and then go to bed, but will try to attend next week if not read the minutes 19:11:01 thanks for this evening 19:11:04 #endmeeting