17:59:09 <nattie> #startmeeting
17:59:09 <MeetBot> Meeting started Mon Jun 15 17:59:09 2020 UTC.  The chair is nattie. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:59:09 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
17:59:17 <nattie> #topic roll call
17:59:22 <pollo> 0/
17:59:24 <Geek> Oh right time hii!
17:59:24 <nattie> as ever, holler if you're here
17:59:30 <terceiro> hello
17:59:32 <tumbleweed> #link https://deb.li/dc20meet agenda
17:59:38 <bittin^> is here
17:59:41 * DLange hollers as instructed
17:59:41 <tumbleweed> o/
17:59:44 * joostvb is here
17:59:47 <phls> hi
17:59:51 <samyak-jn[m]> o/
17:59:54 <gwolf> o/
18:00:11 <tzafrir> Hello
18:00:17 <nattie> so yeah, we're on the intarwebz this year
18:00:24 <Geek> I thought I missed it sigh
18:00:38 <lenharo> hi
18:00:40 <nattie> #topic last week's actions - Haifa venue for DC21
18:01:03 <tzafrir> We have confirmation from the university.
18:01:23 <DLange> yeah!
18:01:29 <enkelenaH> hi
18:01:31 <gwolf> :-D
18:01:39 <tzafrir> The date is not yet finalized
18:02:08 <gwolf> of course
18:02:29 <tzafrir> #info DebConf 21 will be held in Haifa University
18:02:33 <bittin^> kinda still a while to 2021
18:02:35 <nattie> is there much to add on that right now?
18:03:01 <nattie> #topic last week's actions - call for designs
18:03:03 <anisa> o/ (sorry missed the roll call)
18:03:21 <tumbleweed> so, we didn't actually do a call for designs, beyond pinging people on IRC here
18:03:41 <tumbleweed> and so we got some sketches from highvoltage and indiebio
18:03:44 <gwolf> there's not the time to be _that_ inclusive. I agree with that.
18:04:05 * tumbleweed doesn't have links at hand
18:04:11 <nattie> we could give it another week?
18:04:15 <DLange> make them form a workgroup and come up with a joint proposal? :-)
18:04:29 <tumbleweed> I think just waiting a week won't do much
18:04:35 <DLange> #link https://raw.githubusercontent.com/indiebio/images/master/DebConf_Online_logo_draft1c_10jun20.png
18:04:39 <gwolf> It does not have to be the most beautifulest and fullest design ever
18:04:55 <gwolf> We have to get things moving.
18:04:59 <DLange> I have not seen highvoltage's so I don't have a link for that handy. Does anybody else?
18:05:04 <nattie> have we asked some of the usual suspects?
18:05:13 <tumbleweed> a little worried that indiebio's design isn't that far from the SOTM design that she based it on
18:05:14 <indiebio> #link and this one for just the logo: https://github.com/indiebio/images/blob/master/DebConf_Online_logo_draft1_10jun20.png
18:05:19 <nattie> (tamo or Valessio for example)
18:05:32 <pollo> I don't think valessio[m] replied to the pings here
18:05:39 <tumbleweed> yeah, should probably mail him
18:06:51 <nattie> yeah
18:06:52 <tumbleweed> I guess I can take an action to mail both of them
18:06:59 * DLange hopes SOTM has a Debian swirl in this year :D
18:07:02 <tumbleweed> and then what? Decision next week?
18:07:07 <nattie> sure
18:07:09 <phls> I'm asking to Valessio on telegram
18:07:20 <gwolf> phls: Valessio told me he is too busy right now
18:07:30 <phls> ok
18:07:32 <gwolf> He cannot commit time to a good design
18:07:33 <nattie> well, that clears that
18:07:36 <pollo> Andrew Lee also proposed to print face masks, that might be neat to include in the designs
18:07:42 <terceiro> phls: can you also ask Mulin and Jefferson if they would be able to do something?
18:08:11 <nattie> #info a few more potential designers will be pinged
18:08:17 <nattie> #info decision for a logo next week
18:08:34 <nattie> i'm going to put the t-shirt discussion a little later
18:08:42 <nattie> since it's kind of duplicated in the agenda
18:08:56 <nattie> #topic DC20 -> 21 Sponsorship status
18:08:58 <bittin^> #action tumbleweed to email more designers and the people who are working on designs
18:09:00 <phls> terceiro, indeed
18:09:38 <nattie> any news on sponsorship?
18:09:55 <tumbleweed> DLange?
18:10:30 <DLange> anisa is probably better on top of this atm as sponsors seem to not know reply-all these days
18:10:57 <joostvb> #action phls to ask Mulin and Jefferson for designs
18:11:09 <anisa> I have very few responses on the mail i sent for the funds being transferred to DC21, i will update the git ASAP
18:11:51 <nattie> #info Not much news on moving sponsorship to DC21; git will be updated ASAP
18:11:53 <terceiro> what's the default if sponsors don't reply?
18:12:03 <DLange> anisa: these sponsors should also be added to dc21.dc.o (again)
18:12:10 <highvoltage> o/
18:12:23 <utkarsh2102> o/
18:12:29 <nattie> phls: did you want to ask something about language-specific minidebconfs?
18:12:41 <DLange> terceiro: that depends on the level. Up to Silver -> DC21, Bronze and supporter -> DC20 online
18:12:52 <terceiro> DLange: ack
18:12:55 <phls> nattie, yes, let me send
18:13:00 <phls> As you know, we postened MiniDebConf Maceió from March to some date on the future. We have 2 sponsors, and one of them asked us last friday if we intend to do an event online.
18:13:06 <phls> Now we are organizing "minidebconf portuguese" to the same date DC20. We would like to add these local sponsors to our minidebconf (not DC20 at all, sure). For instance, puting their logos on a banner before portuguese talks. So, we would like to manage local sponsors on our talks without relations with DC20 sponsorship.
18:13:10 <phls> Do you see any problem with that?
18:13:12 <gwolf> DLange: makes sense IMO
18:13:46 <tumbleweed> urgh, I'd really prefer not to have separate video encoding configuration for mini confs
18:14:03 <tumbleweed> it probably can be done, though
18:14:11 <tumbleweed> phls: can't they just sponsor the whole thing?
18:14:14 <gwolf> phls: Having the sponsors' banners behind a talk is usually reserved for top-tier sponsors
18:14:31 <phls> well, they can if we don't charge more
18:14:59 <phls> they paid us for few things
18:15:01 <anisa> The default option for sponsors is totransfer their funding to DC21 and have the same perks
18:15:17 * pollo is confused wrt to the status of the "minidebconf portuguese". Is it part of DC20 or separate ?
18:15:20 <phls> yes, but they are not sponsoring DC
18:15:44 <tumbleweed> pollo: yeah, that's the crux of this. If it's part of DC20, it can't have separate sponsors
18:15:55 <lenharo> pollo, when you see "minidebconf portuguese" it means miniconf in portuguese.
18:16:15 <nattie> i guess the thing is to define whether this mini counts as a track within debconf, or a separate event
18:16:23 <pollo> imo if it's not part of DC20, it should have different dates too
18:16:25 <tumbleweed> as currently stated, it's a track within debconf
18:16:44 <DLange> phls: make them sponsor DC20 online?
18:16:46 <nattie> in which case, they should surely be counted as general DC sponsors?
18:16:52 <pollo> DLange: are the sponsor prices for DC20 the same as for DC21?
18:16:52 <gwolf> phls: Having a non-DebConf miniDebConf as part of DebConf is quite confusing
18:17:05 <DLange> pollo: nah, reduced
18:17:06 <tumbleweed> DLange: I think you need to set prices so he can negotiate with them
18:17:11 <phls> DLange, we already asked them, but they don't want
18:17:14 <tzafrir> Or would it make sense to have track sponsors?
18:17:35 <pollo> tzafrir: that makes video loops way more work
18:17:42 <tumbleweed> phls: then try to move their sponsorship to next year?
18:17:50 <tumbleweed> (assuming you do another mini)
18:18:03 <bittin^> pollo: yeah then there need to be a different loop per stream etc
18:18:06 <phls> our minidebconf will be 22h - 01H UTC, so not pon the same time of main DC
18:18:28 <tumbleweed> we haven't defined a time for the main DC, so I don't think you can say that
18:18:31 <gwolf> phls: DebConf will be 24h, so yes, same time of main DebConf.
18:18:56 <DLange> how much money in USD are we talking about phls?
18:18:58 <gwolf> or at least, as tumbleweed said, we cannot yet state the times we will work in
18:19:07 <pollo> DLange: do you have a like to the DC20 sponsor tier + perks?
18:19:25 <phls> R$ 1.500 = ~ U$ 290
18:19:28 <DLange> pollo: no, we don't have a flyer or so yet
18:19:50 <DLange> (as we don't have perks yet)
18:20:13 <DLange> ~T-Shirts are a thing or not (-> later in the agenda)
18:20:20 <pollo> ack
18:20:32 * nattie thinks this will require further discussion outside the meeting
18:20:38 <phls> they paid for (in Maceio): banners on the videos, banners on the auditorium and badges
18:20:44 <tumbleweed> $300 doesn't sound word-while for the hassle
18:20:58 <gwolf> phls: I think you should delay their sponsorship for some other event
18:21:03 <gwolf> Not for a track within DebConf
18:21:08 <pollo> phls: but you won't have banners, nor auditorium nor badges, right?
18:21:14 <pollo> since it's an online event
18:21:18 <phls> remember, I'm not proposing put their logos on DC20 talks and at all
18:21:27 <phls> pollo, yes
18:22:14 <tumbleweed> can I suggest untangling this item outside the meeting? we've been on sponsorship for 13 mins now
18:22:24 <DLange> you could do a "language track opening and thank them in that talk and show their logos"
18:22:25 <nattie> yes
18:22:34 <phls> we prefer keep them to next year, but as I said, one of them asked us about "online event". So, probably they prefer apear now on minidc online them wait for the next year
18:23:00 <tumbleweed> if they're sponsoring the online event, I'd expect that the money actually goes towards Debian (or the online event) not banners that the online event won't use
18:23:10 <nattie> we're going to move on, and you can figure out the specifics outside the meeting
18:23:21 <nattie> #topic DC20 schedule
18:23:22 <DLange> may be clarify with them whether the above is good enough, phls. And if not join the sponsor's channel and let's discuss there.
18:23:52 <nattie> dates?
18:23:55 <phls> DLange, what above?
18:24:11 <bittin^> sometimes end of August has been suggested the last meeting
18:24:18 <DLange> phls: <DLange> you could do a "language track opening and thank them in that talk and show their logos"
18:24:25 <phls> ah ok
18:24:33 <lenharo> nattie, i like August, 23-29...
18:25:01 <nattie> to the best of my knowledge, we are aiming for the same dates as the physical DC20 would have been
18:25:14 <nattie> pending response to the CfP
18:25:21 <joostvb> would make sense
18:25:26 <terceiro> I thought that was already decided?
18:25:31 <gwolf> me too
18:25:33 <nattie> it's only gone out a few days ago, but could someone from content team tell me how response has been?
18:25:36 <nattie> sure
18:25:49 <tumbleweed> well, we hadn't decided on the number of dates yet
18:25:54 <tumbleweed> days
18:25:57 <tumbleweed> but it's obviously too soon to call that
18:25:58 <terceiro> #info the CFP has 13 submissions so far
18:26:16 <highvoltage> that's what mdco had basically
18:26:17 <terceiro> #undo
18:26:20 <terceiro> #info the CFP has 14 submissions so far
18:26:30 <highvoltage> (ok slightly more :p)
18:26:44 <tumbleweed> #link https://debconf20.debconf.org/statistics/ DebConf statistics as usual
18:26:52 <nattie> it's only been about 2 days since the reminder went out
18:26:54 <tumbleweed> (except it blows up, whoops)
18:27:02 <terceiro> hehe
18:27:15 <highvoltage> yeah
18:27:26 <bittin^> the website even says: It will be held within the same dates, as before, 23-29 August.
18:27:32 <bittin^> https://debconf20.debconf.org/news/2020-06-08-debconf20-moves-online/
18:27:41 <nattie> bittin^: we wrote the website
18:27:47 <bittin^> and it would be bad if the internet lied :D
18:28:24 <nattie> at which point do we decide the length?
18:28:59 <DLange> I guess when the CFP "flood" stops pouring in?
18:29:01 <terceiro> we can do that after submissions are closed
18:29:07 <gwolf> nattie: IMO we should _aim_ to 23-29 August, and... well, we have to see the submissions to see if we cover the time or not
18:29:27 <bittin^> when the CFP is over and depending on how much content there is?
18:29:36 <gwolf> We can always fill in with "hacking session days"
18:30:15 <nattie> ad-hoc BoFs!
18:30:18 <gwolf> FWIW, we are _expecting_ to leave at least a 1-day hole (≈our usual daytrip) not to saturate people, as a sprint day
18:30:19 <joostvb> last-minute bof-like sessions
18:30:20 <joostvb> indeed
18:30:59 <pollo> gwolf: if debcamp and debconf are merged, I think it's important to have more than 1 day for sprints
18:31:28 <pollo> we previously talked about alternating days for talks and sprints
18:31:29 <gwolf> pollo: We cannot pursue the whole DebConf+DebCamp experience
18:31:31 <DLange> may be talk day 1, daytrip day, talk day 2 then if it ends up < 25 submissions. And then +1 day for each 10 .. 15 submissions over that?
18:31:49 <nattie> daytrip day should be about halfway through
18:31:57 <gwolf> but yes, what I mean is, we are not expecting to have 7 days, 24/7, nonstop sessions...
18:32:07 <gwolf> The schedule will be sparser than usual
18:32:23 <gwolf> bikesheds should be painted later.
18:32:30 <DLange> I would still try to avoid very long breaks
18:32:32 <joostvb> just 1 track?
18:32:35 <terceiro> I think this discussion is pointless before we know how much content is available
18:32:35 <nattie> but what colour?
18:32:43 <joostvb> hehe
18:32:47 <DLange> people tend to "go away" then and not return to live viewing anymore
18:32:53 <DLange> work & life happen
18:33:22 <nattie> let's move on to the language-specific minis
18:33:27 <tumbleweed> +1
18:33:34 <nattie> do we have any further ones aside from the pt_BR one?
18:33:39 <terceiro> not yet
18:33:45 <terceiro> the CFP mentions the possibility explicitly
18:33:54 <terceiro> but so far nobody got in touch
18:34:02 <nattie> maybe another specific email pointing them out?
18:34:08 <terceiro> maybe we should poke a few people if we want this to be a thing
18:34:13 <nattie> yeah
18:34:21 <terceiro> suggestions?
18:34:27 <pollo> I doubt there are a lot of Debian communities organised enough to make that happen
18:34:37 <terceiro> I can write to the debian-devel-${language} lists
18:34:57 <utkarsh2102> Another mail specifically for this^
18:35:06 <joostvb> cc debian-user-${language}
18:35:08 <utkarsh2102> (that's a suggestion from my side^)
18:35:17 <nattie> #action terceiro to write to relevant mailing lists to mention language-specific minidebconfs
18:35:35 <joostvb> terceiro: and maybe debian-events-*
18:35:54 <nattie> #topic CfP and online announcement
18:36:02 <nattie> So, those went out the other day
18:36:17 <nattie> and we've already heard about the response to the CfP so far
18:36:21 <pollo> terceiro and others who worked on it: it was a good CfP, great job!
18:36:33 <nattie> anything to add about it?
18:36:55 <tumbleweed> I'll throw in a \o/
18:37:25 <terceiro> I think we got the ball rolling
18:37:33 <terceiro> I don't have anything to add atm
18:37:38 <nattie> right, time for t-shirts!
18:37:44 <nattie> #topic t-shirts
18:37:53 <utkarsh2102> \o/
18:38:07 <nattie> from Mexico we have that Gunnar's contact can produce the shirts but not do the distribution
18:38:29 <gwolf> nattie: She didn't say she cannot take the distribution, but we didn't have real data to give her
18:38:42 <gwolf> This is... she is happy to help, but I don't want to overflow her
18:38:46 <nattie> indeed
18:38:52 <pollo> #info Andrew Lee volunteered to take care of t-shirts (+masks?) from Taiwan (https://lists.debian.org/debconf-team/2020/06/msg00008.html)
18:38:56 <gwolf> ...She does not _do_ logistics/distribution
18:39:35 <nattie> personally, i wouldn't want shirts from the material used for the DC18 shirts
18:39:38 <gwolf> And we have _no numbers_ to ask her to quote from, so... Much as I love her work and I like her, I think we should look at places that _do_ have experience with baroque distribution
18:39:53 <tumbleweed> or we'll need to stand up a distribution network
18:40:01 <bittin^> i know some other events use https://www.cafepress.co.uk/ and https://www.spreadshirt.com/ haven't looked in to what shipping and production costs etc are however
18:40:26 <nattie> there's also printful, which has distribution centres in both the US and EU
18:40:30 <lenharo> I had no response from the second supply. and Customink did not respond about the shipping cost. I'll ping again.
18:40:47 <tumbleweed> does anyone want to take on coordination for this project?
18:40:56 <bittin^> there is also https://teespring.com/
18:40:58 <nattie> lenharo: would you mind expanding your quote request a little bit to cover a few t-shirts in larger sizes?
18:40:59 <tumbleweed> (i.e. collect together options, document them, prod as appropriate)
18:41:02 <DLange> for these ^ we'd need somebody to inquire whether they can do "prepaid" or "vouchers" so we can give people T-Shirts and these companies basically take care of printing and logistics for us
18:41:13 <lenharo> I was thinking of a t-shirt solution. How about doing a decentralized production? we make layout and mockup available, and someone in the regions can produce. it becomes more viable.
18:41:25 <DLange> and more complex
18:41:30 <lenharo> nattie, it was covered...that was just an example.
18:41:35 <nattie> ok
18:41:36 <gwolf> FWIW it will make sense (more than usual) to ask people registering whether they care about getting a shirt or not
18:42:49 <nattie> yes
18:43:41 <nattie> should we try to convene a group of people to work on the t-shirt issue together and come back with ideas next week?
18:43:49 <terceiro> yes please
18:43:51 <nattie> anyone up for discussing that outside the meeting?
18:43:53 <bittin^> but if you use any of those shirt printing sites i linked above i am not sure how many % goes to them and how many % of the money goes to Debian
18:43:56 <tumbleweed> nattie: sure
18:44:00 <lenharo> yes.. i can help on this.
18:44:21 <DLange> cool
18:44:30 <nattie> anyone want to work together with lenharo on this?  it's a lot for one person
18:44:57 <nattie> bittin^: how about you?
18:45:09 <bittin^> nattie: sadly busy during the rest of the week
18:45:43 <nattie> #action lenharo to look into t-shirt options, people are welcome to join him
18:45:52 <nattie> #topic budget
18:45:56 <DLange> so time plan is to get T-Shirts sorted (or not) in ~2 weeks and the open registration in case we have some for sizes and addresses, right?
18:46:17 <tumbleweed> DLange: sounds about right
18:46:23 <nattie> any news on the budget?
18:46:33 <DLange> tumbleweed: awesome, thanks
18:47:23 <DLange> we have none. And may be we don't need one in case we have no T-shirts as the hosting is so cheap that we can get that from the DPL approved by just sending the estimate.
18:47:50 <DLange> Otherwise we can only do the budget once we know how much the main cost item will be.
18:48:09 <nattie> #info Budget will be done once costs are more certain
18:48:13 <nattie> #topic webside
18:48:19 <nattie> #undo
18:48:19 <MeetBot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Topic object at 0x108dd90>
18:48:21 <nattie> #topic website
18:48:26 <nattie> any news on the website?
18:48:32 <tumbleweed> it's up
18:48:37 <tumbleweed> and the dc21 website is up
18:48:43 <DLange> #link https://debconf20.debconf.org
18:48:50 <DLange> #link https://debconf21.debconf.org
18:48:50 <nattie> #info both the DC20 and 21 websites are up
18:48:59 <nattie> #topic AOB
18:48:59 * pollo thinks the dc20 website looks good and doesn,t really need further styling
18:49:06 <tumbleweed> would be nice to have the dc20 wesbite look different, but I'm not going to put any effort into that, unless someone drives with ideas
18:49:11 <pollo> :)
18:49:13 <terceiro> pollo: I agree
18:49:14 <terceiro> :)
18:49:25 <joostvb> are we planning to offer payed registration for participants?
18:49:32 <joostvb> with invoice
18:49:34 <terceiro> yes
18:49:38 <joostvb> ok  cool
18:50:09 * nattie mentions the speaker assistance team as her AOB item
18:50:10 <pollo> the videoteam meets tomorrow to talk about video stuff
18:50:16 <bittin^> maybe logos and such when they are done for the website
18:50:42 <nattie> which entails making sure speakers' setups work, etc.
18:51:01 <nattie> i'll mention it in tomorrow's videoteam meeting as well
18:51:05 <nattie> any other other business?
18:51:08 <tumbleweed> so, on the topic of paid registration. We haven't really talked about that. Would we keep $200 & $500?
18:51:21 <DLange> that's too much, I think
18:51:28 <bittin^> i would lower it
18:51:30 <pollo> +1
18:51:39 <nattie> 50 and 200?
18:51:44 <DLange> may be a tenth or a fifth of that
18:51:56 <DLange> 20 & 50 or 40 and 100 USD
18:51:58 <joostvb> why 50 and an invoice?
18:52:16 <DLange> invoices are free 'cause wafer is really good at generating them
18:52:17 <joostvb> invoice is needed by one's employer, right?
18:52:30 <tumbleweed> it'd be nice if the paid option at least covered costs (t-shirt and shipping)
18:52:32 <DLange> yes, usually for reimbursement from e.g. an employer
18:52:37 <pollo> I'm not sure 20 USD will cover the cost of t-shirts + intl shipping
18:52:48 <DLange> that's true
18:53:04 <tumbleweed> I guess this is all part of the budget item above :P
18:53:10 <bittin^> would not shipping depend on where to ship, and what service/tailor is used for the shirts?
18:53:18 <DLange> very much so
18:53:23 <joostvb> 50 and 200 sounds right, i guess?
18:53:46 <lenharo> i guess 50 and 150 should be good enough.
18:53:52 <DLange> but T-Shirts are ~10 USD and you don't ship much to anywhere from another place than China for the other 10 USD
18:54:01 <tumbleweed> yeah those seem reasonable. $50 may be steep in some parts of the world, but there's always free
18:54:11 * nattie could go with 50 and 150
18:54:19 <DLange> sounds good, +1
18:54:46 <nattie> they're basically meant as a way for companies to support the conf outside regular fundraising, right?
18:54:50 <joostvb> hrm, average employer is more keen on paying 200 than  150, i'd guess
18:54:59 <joostvb> nattie: indeed
18:55:22 <joostvb> it's taken from the 'conferences and courses'-budget
18:55:39 <DLange> which is probably zero at many companies right now
18:55:41 <nattie> should we try to decide this now, or by the next meeting?
18:56:00 <joostvb> it's either zero or quite a lot
18:56:01 <DLange> I guess now is fine
18:56:21 <DLange> joostvb: either zero or 99% still available :)
18:56:29 <joostvb> yup
18:56:34 <bittin^> 0, 50 or 200 USD
18:56:42 <joostvb> bittin^: sounds good to me
18:56:44 <highvoltage> joostvb: well, it's also an online conference, so if we lose some corporate tickets because it costs too little, then imho that's fine
18:57:15 <nattie> so 50 seems to be fine for pro, the question is 150 or 200 for corporate
18:57:24 <tumbleweed> there's a commit that does 200
18:57:34 <nattie> shall we leave it at 200 for the moment, then?
18:57:35 <DLange> call that a decision
18:57:40 <joostvb> sure
18:57:55 <nattie> #agreed professional fee will be USD 50, corporate will be USD 200
18:58:06 <nattie> anything else?
18:58:08 <lenharo> let's leave at 200 for corporate
18:58:12 <nattie> next meeting same time next week?
18:58:21 <DLange> wfm
18:58:25 <terceiro> lgtm
18:58:32 * joostvb too
18:58:36 <nattie> #agreed next meeting 22 June 18:00 UTC
18:58:42 <nattie> #endmeeting