17:59:56 #startmeeting 17:59:56 Meeting started Thu Jan 30 17:59:56 2020 UTC. The chair is DLange. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 17:59:56 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 18:00:12 #chair tumbleweed indiebio_ gwolf terceiro 18:00:12 Current chairs: DLange gwolf indiebio_ terceiro tumbleweed 18:00:23 Hello and welcome to the second (and likely final) DebConf21 bid review meeting! 18:00:30 #topic roll calll 18:00:35 Hi 18:00:42 Please say hello, who you are and what role you have 18:00:54 Hi - Stefano Rivera, from the committee 18:00:56 so this is Bernelle Verster, she's early and on the DebConf committee ^ 18:00:57 :-) 18:01:09 hello i am from debian india 18:01:20 And on the road but close to the computer :) getting there soon! 18:01:59 * gwolf screeches and arrives seemingly on time! 18:02:04 it looks like we miss enkelena or somebody else from Kosovo, right? 18:02:10 * srud[m] from India team 18:02:26 Hello, I am Manuel Torrinha from Portugal 18:02:37 * DLange is Daniel Lange, DebConf committee 18:02:57 o/ Anisa here, Outreachy intern working on fundraising for DC20. 18:03:11 hi, I'm Henrique from Portugal 18:03:21 Hello, Jose Manuel Calhariz from the Portugal 18:03:22 Hello, Diana from Portugal team 18:03:32 Hello, I'm Filipe Fernandes from team Portugal 18:03:44 Hi, I'm Balu from India team. 18:03:55 I am Gunnar Wolf, DebConf Committee 18:03:56 * PiratePraveen[m] from Indian team 18:04:07 some people are right now busy collecting money for pizza at the minidebcamp pre fosdem 18:04:19 o/ greetings to pre-Fosdem! 18:04:20 those will be back in 2-5min i guess 18:04:23 * utkarsh2102[m] waves from the Indian team o/ 18:04:40 * akhvar from Indian team 18:04:44 * tumbleweed has had his money colleted 18:05:21 h01ger: Are you aware of people from the Kosovo bid amongst them? 18:05:34 enjoy the pizza minidebcamp people :) 18:06:02 gwolf: nope, sorry 18:06:31 o.k., well it won't be Kosovo then ;-) 18:06:33 OK. Well, we can start the meeting nevertheless, and expect them to join along the way 18:07:05 gwolf: i've only seen indians here, but actually not many today. /me wonders if they are in the downstairs cafe place 18:07:25 I don't think so, haven't seen any online today 18:07:34 We have some people from India already online... 18:07:36 and I know enkelena is traveling to Fosdem 18:07:47 anyways, we'll start with India again 'cause time zones... 18:07:56 #topic Bid from India 18:07:58 ...but if she would not make it to the meeting due to the travel, I guess she'd tell us 18:08:15 yeah, she said, she'd make it but was traveling 18:08:28 sometimes those kind of things don't go to plan 18:08:29 that's the source of my info 18:09:02 Anyway... Lets push the meeting forward 18:09:07 ack, so team India: 18:09:31 We would like to go though your action items and feel free to share any other updates that you want us to know about 18:09:37 * DLange share a map pin-pointing the places for conference halls, hacklabs and accommodation 18:09:40 -> http://debconf.fosscommunity.in/ and the map in https://wiki.debian.org/DebConf/21/Bids/India#Venue 18:09:41 * utkarsh2102[m] pinged enkelenaH \o/ 18:10:02 the map seems nicely solved, thank you very much 18:10:11 any comments / questions on that? 18:10:26 there are still *lots* of options there 18:10:37 I assume no short list is possible 18:10:47 because that depends on deals we can get, bookings etc. ? 18:11:58 The order of hotels in the wiki also shows the order of interest we gave for the hotels. So, "Hotel Abad Plaza" is most likely and what we are planning to get for the event. 18:12:06 ack 18:12:16 that seems like the logical route to me, too 18:12:22 although the next two after that only have 1 room, each 18:12:27 well, 2, 1 18:12:49 Sorry to interfere, enkelenaH reverted, she'd be around here shortly. Internet problem at her end. 18:13:04 so, I guess, a somewhat smaller BoF room 18:14:29 Abad Plaza + Abad Atrium + Abad Metro all come under same hotel chain, and we can possibly book all of them under a single deal/contract with the hotel, IF we find the need of smaller rooms for BoF. 18:14:41 Do we have some update on: 18:14:44 * DLange check at least two hacklabs in one hotel ? 18:14:49 (seems related) 18:15:09 Yes, and I'd say related+important 18:16:22 #info Most likely hotel is Abad Plaza, which has most available spaces. Other Abad* hotels belong to the same chain, and a single contract can still be made if needed 18:16:42 DLange: According to the Wiki, Abad plaza could host talk rooms and hacklabs 18:17:13 Hacklabs and main venues can be included in Abad Plaza.. 18:17:22 two hacklabs or more? 18:17:50 and orga spaces 18:17:55 e.g. video team 18:18:02 Only issue being no beer :( 18:18:21 so that was a yes to my and tumbleweed's question? 18:18:25 DLange: 3-4 smaller ones 18:18:30 As I see it, we could use the 40-people room as a noisy hacklab, and one or two 20-people as a silent hacklab (it'd be a bit small IMO) 18:18:49 But orga and video spaces, I guess, would be regular rooms rented for that purpose (if it's acceptable?) 18:18:59 #info two or more hacklabs are possible inside the Abad Plaza, 3-4 smaller rooms are available. 40 people for noisy hacklab and 20 people for silent hacklab 18:19:02 that could be an option, too, yeah 18:19:15 40 people for the noisy hacklab is quite small 18:19:52 Abad Atrium is on the same block, but its largest room sits 60 18:20:07 Hi! I saw on wiki page "We are planning on combining more than one Hotels to get enough number of hall facilities" how many hotels will be necessary? 18:20:44 (oh, and that's Abad Metro, Atrium is smaller) 18:20:50 Hi, Enkelena here 18:20:53 Sorry 18:21:10 #info Abad Metro would have 60 people max room size for hacklabs 18:21:52 adrianacc (@_oftc_adrianacc:matrix.org): minimum 3 18:22:25 #info a minimum of three hotels would need to be combined to host DebConf India 18:22:33 Metro is ~2 blocks away 18:22:57 o.k., next action item was: 18:22:59 * DLange check for alcohol license 18:23:15 you said already this is an issue for the main hotel you'd choose? 18:23:26 abad we cant 18:23:39 rest place we can get 18:24:07 Permit will be around 700 USD per day 18:24:14 that is ... hefty 18:24:38 I guess the Imperial is just too large... Or too expensive? 18:24:40 Pearl Palace already has the license 18:24:41 #info liquor license in India will be around 700 USD per day, not possible at all the Abad hotels 18:25:00 #info Pearl Palace already has a license 18:25:02 Usually 1000-people rooms in hotels can be divided with foldable walls... 18:25:30 how difficult is it to get around that? So sometimes we in SA have beer because we 'bring our own' which practically means people put in credit and then one person goes to buy the beer ... so how strict is this? 18:25:52 span have already have bar 18:26:09 licence 18:26:31 We don't _need_ to drink at the venue. It's a nice extra. But we can live without it if it's forbidden... 18:26:42 there are outside places where it's legal, I guess 18:26:54 yes 18:26:56 gwolf: yes 18:27:19 I've been losing a lot of weight on the farm, hard work, no fridge. the benefits of not being allowed to drink is dawning on me :P 18:27:29 she says, beer in hand 18:29:00 maybe we can arrange a noisy hacklab at a eating place?? 18:29:04 aka with beer 18:30:26 shall we continue? 18:30:39 yes 18:30:43 #action sort out the locations better (more space for noisy hacklab if possible, _existing_ alcohol license if possible), space for team rooms 18:30:46 indiebio_: if noisy hacklab and silent hacklab is in different hotels we can have beer 18:30:59 I think that's a viable option 18:31:01 I've actioned it, so the team has less chance of forgetting it :) 18:31:02 * h01ger rather has no beer than people split 18:31:44 but if people are split anyway due to capacity of hotels, it is an option 18:31:51 o.k., last item from my list on India: 18:31:56 Yes as Praveen says we have two options for noisy hacklab with alcohol licenses 18:31:56 1 Spa International 18:31:56 2 Imperial Regency 18:32:03 presumably people could buy beer and drink in a hotel garden / hacklab, anyway 18:32:11 just not debconf-organised beer 18:32:13 Imperial Regency is near to main venue Abad Plaza 18:32:47 good with the AA issue? :) 18:33:08 so last item from my list on India: 18:33:14 What about the weather? There has been feedback that you should look for a more advantageous weather season, is this something you could do? 18:33:51 DLange: They have mentioned that on the wiki, that they'd prefer Sep-Dec 18:34:12 (personally, I prefer keeping us in the time of year we are used to work, Jul-Aug) 18:34:27 teams often say that, but nobody ever bids for that. too intimidating to break that mold, i think 18:34:35 Jun-Aug will be heavy rains 18:34:38 others would prefer us moving a bit more to not always hit the same holidays 18:34:43 I prefer cooler weather 18:34:58 that's why we'd ask you to propose a concrete other timing, srud[m] 18:35:15 to me this is the biggest issue, to be honest 18:35:34 I also shudder at the thought of a tropical hot wet season :-| 18:35:35 one that doesn't collide with other important conferences or your local festivities (if they are not nice for us to attend and hotels still good to get) 18:35:40 DLange: Sep - Dec 18:36:22 PiratePraveen[m]: sufficiently concrete would be "first half of October" or so, Sep - Dec is too wide 18:36:26 We could start it from early september maybe 1st week 18:37:14 e.g. second half of Dec would be a no-go for many people from Europe and the US due to family / religious holidays 18:38:00 #action propose concrete timing in the Sep - Dec timeframe (like half a month, doesn't have to be at day precision) 18:38:09 The local festivities end by August last week. So Septermber first week should be fine. 18:38:29 o.k., agree on something and document it please 18:38:40 do check for collisions with other major conferences 18:38:44 we're 40 mins into the meeting, so I'll push a bit 18:39:04 last call on the Indian bid, anybody have more comments / questions? 18:39:09 Adding one more bit of info related to alcohol - If people want to have drinks outside, there are beer and wine parlours nearby. Also Spa International and Oberoi are restaurants, very nearby, where they serve alcohol. 18:39:56 #topic Bid from Kosovo 18:40:12 anybody here from the team in addition to Enkelena? 18:41:12 I guess no, o.k., let's continue with the action items from last meeting then 18:41:18 * DLange add cost totals on the checklist section 18:41:46 I had to find a bigger auditorium. I found one with 300 seats 200m from the venue 18:41:47 Enkelena: Ping? 18:42:12 #info I had to find a bigger auditorium. I found one with 300 seats 200m from the venue 18:42:36 What would be the conditions to use that auditorium? 18:42:52 (does it still fit in the "free space" provided by the university? 18:42:55 ) 18:42:57 Its university property so its free 18:43:08 It's in another faculty 18:43:27 this covers the ACTION: add larger talk room alternatives to the bid page, correct? 18:43:52 I guess. 300 is max 18:44:02 300 sounds fine to me 18:44:31 Enkelena: Sounds quite reasonable. And in any case, video team will hate us, but I can still propose to video-link the 300- and 250-people auditoriums ;-) 18:44:34 #info 300 people max auditorium size (seems fine enough) 18:44:51 gwolf: they did that in heidelberg, no? 18:45:00 gwolf: they won't hate you, they will make you pull the cable :) 18:45:11 indiebio_: I wasn't there. But I understand Heidelberg was in the same building 18:45:24 yes, true. different rooms though 18:45:25 gwolf: sounds like we're doing it this year... 18:45:29 on the ACTION: add cost totals on the checklist section. This has not been done, right? Or don't I just find it? 18:45:32 (and yes, they'll hate you) 18:45:43 * gwolf attracts hate \o/ 18:45:49 same building or not isn't a huge deal, as long as the network is good 18:46:01 of course, shorter walking between venues is good for reducing debugging time, too 18:47:07 Enkelena: We also had an action item asking you to add costs 18:47:18 Ah no. I did not write the numbers. But I guess only to calculate like 300 people *50Eur, food: 3 times 4 euro 2 weeks? 18:47:22 ... I do see costs in most points of the wiki. Was this your addition? 18:47:23 Cause the price is mentioned 18:47:27 right 18:47:49 well, you probably have 20 people 2 days before DebCamp 18:47:57 150-200 at end of DebCamp 18:48:06 and 300-500 during DebConf 18:48:11 I think the deal does not work like that 18:48:20 If a person comes whenever it had to pay 50 18:48:31 But the food yes 18:48:55 accom is 50€ regardless of length? 18:48:57 DLange: I don't think the bid has to make all the projections in such detail... 18:49:00 yup 18:49:08 well, comparable cost are nice 18:49:16 Yes because that's how dorm rooms work 18:49:35 we don't nail people on that but it seems to be one of the big advantages of Kosovo, so it would have been good to be made more concrete 18:49:45 I'll action it anyways 18:50:19 #action add cost totals on the checklist section (food, accom, any larger incidentials where you know about them) 18:50:28 Cool! 18:51:18 Do we have anyo other outstanding points regarding Kosovo? 18:51:38 (I'm sorry to push, but I have a hard limit - I must leave in ~40 min) 18:51:47 you do well gwolf, thank you! 18:52:08 #topic Bid from Portugal 18:52:24 Hi 18:52:31 I have two items on my list for the Portugal team 18:52:37 one: 18:52:38 * DLange re-check free availability of venue with new Head of University 18:53:29 I have contacted IT headmaster, but no hard reply yet 18:53:50 o.k., is that a significant cost risk we have? 18:53:55 He is optimist that we should get a Yes, because we got it for 2020. 18:54:14 how much would a "No" be, roughly? 18:54:37 I need to check for a hard number. 18:55:09 I have somewhere in the docs we got for 2020 bid. 18:55:28 oh, cool if you can find it that would be useful 18:55:46 we can bug difonseca and filipefernandes while you search 18:56:13 Ok 18:56:36 My second question was: Did anything move on the university commitments reg. time to work on DebConf? 18:57:23 I am waiting for a meeting with the IT Headmaster. 18:57:39 The date is open and have not yet happened. 18:57:46 So, we are in both accounts in the same position we were two weeks ago? :-( 18:58:02 No progress yes :-( 18:58:05 and ETA? 18:58:08 any ETA? 18:58:42 I can push for a meating with the headmaster, and talk about commitments time. 18:59:03 About the space, is other headmaster, not ETA for that. 18:59:50 o.k., so: 18:59:59 I have a question. Is accessibility for people with disabilities ensured at the proposed venue, talk rooms, hacklabs? 19:00:28 #action get info about commitment for time to work on DebConf from the university 19:00:31 anisa: Question specific for Portugal, or for the three bidding teams? 19:00:58 calhariz: How long do you need to get an answer on both items? It is a _very much_ needed item for us to decide 19:01:05 Yes, the university(venue) is prepared for people with disabilities all over the campus 19:01:24 well I thought about it now, but if the three teams would answer (if its is not already on their bid info) that would be great. 19:01:40 Kosovo quit on the question ^ :) 19:01:53 anisa: I remember it being in the wikis 19:01:56 filipefernandes: so all talk rooms are accessible via elevators, hacklabs, too? 19:02:21 "Rooms are accessible as required by Portuguese Law." 19:02:43 what does that mean for non Portuguese Lawyers? 19:03:02 like in ZA we had "carrying people up stairs is o.k." 19:03:03 The entrance of the buildings have ramps and inside the buildings there are elevators 19:03:13 I can push to talk with the IT headmaster, but corrently he is very busy, so I can not give a hard timeframe. 19:03:40 okay, didnt find it on the Portugal bid, thanks gwolf 19:04:03 #info calhariz cannot give a hard timeframe for a meeting with the IT headmaster (as the contact is very busy) 19:04:59 alright, any other questions on the Portugal bid? 19:06:10 3 .. 2 .. 1 19:06:19 I have one 19:06:37 go ahead please 19:06:52 don't we have even an estimate on how expensive it would be to rent the venue, if it's nor granted for free? 19:07:13 There is only two rooms that may cost money 19:07:53 One of the is Congress room, 5000 euros per day. 19:08:18 The Main Hall should be free. 19:08:48 uffff 19:08:58 Hopefully the university is willing to become a platinum sponsor 19:09:00 * tumbleweed tries to remind himself which ones these are 19:09:01 I have an email saying that the class rooms and small auditoriuns are free, gratis. 19:09:26 well, the congress room could even be optional. It is this huge room currently blocked, right, calhariz? 19:09:32 (ceiling came down) 19:09:38 Salão Nobre, right? 19:10:07 Sala Nobre is closed now for restauration 19:10:32 which building are the rooms we're talking abotu in? Congress, Main Hall? 19:10:35 you said two rooms would cost money, but only gave a number for one 19:11:01 or is Main Hall one of them and you changed your mind? :) 19:11:14 Calhariz here 19:11:31 Diana, you ... look different today :) 19:11:32 Main Hall is on the original plan 19:11:57 Crongress Room is a backup plan 19:12:44 #info Main Hall (original plan), Congress room (backup plan) may cost money. Cost risk of 5.000 EUR / day 19:13:00 tumbleweed: I think I did not show you the Congress room 19:13:20 #action re-check free availability of venue with new Head of University (carried over from last meeting) 19:14:12 Anyway... Maybe we can #topic to general comments open for all / whatever ? 19:14:41 go ahead, you are chair 19:14:58 FWIW, I'll break it to the attendees to the meeting - We are not able to come up with a decision today ☹ 19:15:07 #topic General comments open for all 19:15:31 I think we have three strong bids. 19:15:41 All have a significant weakness each: 19:16:10 India: weather ~ time ~ location, needs to move 19:16:37 Kosovo: team commitment (yes, I remember what enkelena said in meeting #1 but I don't see it here) 19:16:50 Portugal: cost risk, commitment risk at University 19:17:29 So I propose we give all three teams two weeks to sort these issues and then we decide. 19:17:40 FWIW, I haven't ever been at a DebConf bid decision meeting where I'm not somewhat torn. All bidding teams have the potential to bring something *unique and great* 19:18:02 We always lose a lot by not choosing every possible venue. But reality is only one 19:18:15 And... Yes, the three points mentioned by DLange are very strong/important 19:18:38 I agree, it is a really hard decision to make. 19:18:55 yeah 19:19:34 so shall I action my two week deadline above for the teams? 19:20:01 Yes... Please. 19:20:11 I have to leave now, Real Life calls me. 19:20:56 I would that the bid teams can and should discuss potential solutions for those issues before the meeting with the rest of us 19:21:15 YES. For all means, we are available here on channel almost at all times. 19:21:22 Please do discuss! 19:21:26 * gwolf goes away o/ 19:22:03 #action All three bid teams have one serious issue to solve each. Please resolve this and talk to us in #debconf-team or via email. Deadline Wed, Feb 12, 2020 19:22:22 any other comments before we close the meeting? 19:23:02 Is only Kosovo considering university accommodation? 19:23:13 yes, the others don't have that option 19:23:31 Is Protugal / India not considering it because they don't work there, or it's outside of holidays? 19:24:12 do the bid teams want to answer that? 19:24:19 Diana here xD 19:24:20 Because I think some universities do rent out residences in vacs to make extra income, even to people who are not university staff. So has this option been investigated? 19:24:37 vacs = vacation / university holiday 19:25:00 The university just have accommodation for students and is far and small from the venue 19:25:17 small and far* 19:27:13 India afaik doesn't have dorms available that would be considered suitable for using as accommodation 19:27:24 ok 19:27:58 right, then ... thank you all very much and please get back to us well before the Feb 12, 2020 deadline 19:28:02 #endmeeting