14:31:49 #startmeeting 14:31:49 Meeting started Thu Sep 21 14:31:49 2017 UTC. The chair is medicalwei[m]. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 14:31:49 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 14:31:59 hello 14:32:05 hello] 14:32:09 #topic 0 - Roll call 14:32:16 o/ 14:32:21 hello 14:32:23 hello 14:32:32 hello 14:32:38 hello 14:33:15 Please say hello here. Also chuang is from NCTU whom might join the meeting and... please feel free to ask and answer here :) 14:33:22 hola! 14:33:29 s/might // 14:33:33 hello there and hello chuang! 14:33:55 Meanwhile please check the meeting agenda at ... hold on where is it 14:34:05 thanks for the intro, mwei! 14:34:08 :) 14:34:22 Meeting agenda: http://deb.li/3OYuV 14:35:39 #topic 1 - Sponsors 14:36:20 First one is "The name(s) of organizer, and if NCTU is actually a co-organizer or venue sponsor." ? 14:36:31 The fund from Bureau of Foreign Trade is opening next month. And chuang is going to take charge of that. 14:36:49 NCTU is currently venue sponsor 14:37:30 but it's possible to be a co-organizer I think 14:37:34 Do we need to provide any information for visa waiver ? 14:38:08 is there an application process for being a co-organizer? 14:38:20 greetings Peter_tw 14:38:30 chuang: i think we would just have to agree on it 14:39:16 I think there's not (...yet). And does it mean that NCTU needs to be a TO for applying funds? 14:39:28 no 14:39:32 Or they can apply funds and give the fundings to OCF.tw 14:39:32 ok 14:39:44 TO is only organizations that hold funds for Debian (or other assets) 14:40:26 TO, chuang, is Debian speak: "Trusted Organization" (and organization that has been certified to a certain level to comply with Debian policies) 14:41:10 o/ 14:41:25 So we just need to agree that NCTU is a co-organizer and can apply funds for us. Do we need a written agreements for that? 14:41:38 OCF.tw is? 14:41:48 i'm not sure if nctu can transfer fundings to OCF.tw. the accounting might be done by nctu 14:41:48 OCF.tw is one of the TO. 14:42:14 would that be a problem? 14:42:19 probably yes 14:42:34 in that case, we should examine TO status for NCTU? 14:42:43 you need to work out a plan where you do not hold Debian assets or act on behalf of Debian 14:43:04 (you can act as part of DebConf18 organization if the local team agrees to that) 14:43:09 because if they apply for funding on our behalf, they might have to hold our assets, even if it is only for five minutes, surely? 14:43:21 five minutes is not holding 14:43:41 Can there be two TO that both do the funds for single DebConf? 14:44:02 yes 14:44:03 yes, but I think the TO process is too much work for this case 14:44:10 DLange: Acting on behalf of DC18 team should be okay especially if NCTU is going to apply funds. 14:44:11 an in general other TO will help anyway 14:44:22 I mean, should be more reasonable 14:44:29 NCTU is our venue so there are and will be legal connections (contract) and money flows 14:44:37 we need not put a TO status on that 14:44:59 if medicalwei supports a Debian application for funds we're not making his company a TO either 14:44:59 i'm good with whichever arrangement is most practical 14:45:33 Can we consider fund from NCTU as a kind of subsidy, just like venue? 14:46:09 and effectively bump them to a higher sponsorship level? 14:46:25 NCTU can be part of the DC18 orga and act as an organizing entity 14:46:40 nattie: co-organizer I think 14:46:44 as such they can take and spend money. That's not Debian money but money. 14:47:04 ok 14:47:06 Universities typically take percentages of grant taken for groups inside them. This is true of NCTU? 14:47:33 Bumping NCTU to co-organizer or DC18 orga would solve the problem if NCTU can apply funds on behalf of us. 14:47:38 A bit late, but I am here. Hello. 14:47:47 sponsors prefer to pay to a well know debian bank account. 14:47:54 I don't think that's true for this case. it is different from regular grants, but i can confirm this 14:48:02 please do 14:48:15 So I think we agree on "NCTU is co-organizer" ? 14:48:16 because if you'd take a share we run into other issues as well 14:48:17 thanks chuang 14:48:17 THere were time were money were handled in private personal account, but it is not ideal. 14:48:29 delib: I got it. 14:48:52 happens every year to the extend that private individuals credit Debian as get refunded later 14:49:10 same can be done (credit or debit) with legal entities 14:49:39 that's just a normal contract then 14:50:23 Might Debian contract with NCTU to do the job of applying for government funds? 14:50:53 Could they then more reasonably take a share? 14:51:02 yes, we could do this. But if they are part of DC18 orga they can just apply for DC18 and Debian (as SPI in legal entity) is out of the loop 14:51:32 ah. ok. I just ask questions. Don't have background for judgement. 14:51:54 obviously we'd want leader@ to approve this but I don't think we'll run into issues with such a construct 14:52:10 So in this case, the title for NCTU is one of "DC18 organizer" ? 14:52:36 co-, i would think, but i guess so? 14:53:02 DebConf18 venue sounds good, too 14:53:19 you may use what makes most sense spelt out in Chinese 14:53:35 okay, we can deal with Chinese part. 14:54:20 hmm. a co-org or venue? 14:54:33 action making the agreement between the local team & NCTU and action chuang to check if there will be any funds deductions? 14:54:48 After in Chinese, then good to translate back to English for legal understanding. 14:55:00 medicalwei[m]: use both if that makes most sense for you in Chinese 14:55:12 #action chuang (NCTU contact window) to check if there will be any funds deductions? 14:55:16 i think the contract should have an official translation anyway 14:55:17 ok 14:55:17 I agree w/ DLange 14:55:42 being an Actual Official Piece Of Paperwork (TM) and all 14:55:54 co-org should be better than venue because we don't associate providing fundings with venue 14:56:01 yeah 14:56:10 helping us for fundings 14:56:34 So we #agreed on "NCTU is co-organizer"? 14:56:37 NCTU is the venue and a co-organizer of event? 14:57:00 wording 14:57:01 #save 14:57:36 sounds good 14:57:46 If they do both, they should be both.. 14:57:56 agree with taowa 14:58:04 they're two separate functions anyway, which are being done by the same entitu 14:58:07 entity 14:58:49 I think we shall #agreed and continue, lots of topics are waiting. 14:59:26 and the #actions please 14:59:40 #agreed NCTU is entitled the venue and co-organizer of DC18 14:59:53 What #action need to be done for this part? 15:00:12 #action local team to make agreement with NCTU for co-organizing the event 15:00:15 ^ this? 15:00:18 for chuang to check stuff and for the actual agreement to be drawn up 15:00:21 yep 15:00:23 formalizing the agreement in writing (email is sufficient). Ack. 15:00:31 #save 15:00:44 next one is "Budget estimation, including the venue without discount." ? 15:01:06 i think this should be an #action to Peter_tw ? 15:01:21 is Peter_tw our treasurer, effectively? 15:01:36 We can put it to kanban and find the owner later. 15:01:54 I may need to discuss with medicalwei[m] later 15:02:06 not very sure what should I actually do to that 15:02:07 *cough* we decided to grant DC18 to Taiwan at the premise that the venue is free of charge 15:02:27 I'm not too happy to discuss that after the decision had been taken ~9 months... 15:02:29 DLange: this is for applying funds 15:02:45 "including the venue without discount" is misleading then 15:03:17 chuang, needs a cost estimate when he applies to government for funding? 15:03:22 so... what's the proper wording here? 15:03:38 what do you want to express? Including goverment funds? 15:03:45 But then would funding cover costs already promised? 15:03:47 (minus the typo :)) 15:05:09 chuang: Is the government funding used for covering the fees running the venue? 15:05:09 Part of the government fund will be compensation for NCTU because NCTU uses its own budget to cover venue cost 15:05:27 I don't think so 15:05:42 I don't think the funding is for the venue 15:06:05 As I know, technical NCTU pays the venue price for us. 15:06:19 It's an optional work that head of cs dept says the school can help us apply 15:06:45 "an optional work"? 15:06:51 the venue will be paid with discount from other sources 15:06:53 optional additional funding? 15:07:08 Delib, nattie : that's not a must 15:07:11 Optional funding paperworks I think 15:07:22 just help us got another funding 15:07:49 *nods* 15:07:50 if we don't do that, or we don't get approved on that funding 15:07:54 Also some of the fundings need to be applied from certain organizations or university dept. 15:07:56 we still can use the venue 15:08:00 not directly related 15:08:18 So "NCTU pay for venue in paper, and because of that NCTU can try to get more money from government" is that correct? 15:08:25 So this means NCTU provides us with the optional service of funding grant-writing? 15:08:34 czchen: that's what I understand 15:08:46 we will have to fill the amount of estimated budget when applying for fundings. list estimated cost for venue may make the number looks reasonable 15:08:46 Delib: looks so 15:09:01 yes, we will send the applications 15:09:03 because we can't apply that funding by ourselves 15:09:19 but the school can do that for us 15:09:56 o.k., very nice of NCTU to do this. Thank you very much! 15:10:06 Are we done with this agenda item? 15:10:07 "optional service" that we would very much appreciate. 15:10:30 I think so, an #action and we can go next 15:10:47 thank you :) 15:10:54 So agreed they will include venue costs infunding requests? 15:11:07 #action Peter_tw and medicalwei[m] to estimate budgets 15:11:23 Next: Estimated Timeline: https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf18/Timeline 15:11:42 Can we write future timelines here? 15:12:13 medicalwei[m]: yup 15:12:19 I think we should. But just an estimate. 15:12:25 Ok. 15:12:44 #action medicalwei[m] to copy DC17 timeline to DC18 for funding application requirements 15:12:52 i think we don't need a very precise future plan (if for the purpose of applying budgets). 15:13:02 That page is a general canvas to help you, but you should go trhough it and personalise it 15:13:11 just enough to show that we know what we're doing? 15:13:22 yes, that would be enough 15:13:50 then I think just copy some important milestone shall be enough 15:14:00 Next: Committee/Team Members and Roles 15:14:15 https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf18/TeamRoles 15:14:43 Just fill it? 15:14:50 #action everyone to fill your role(s): https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf18/TeamRoles 15:15:20 i'm already on there, right? 15:15:24 And finally, Are the real names one of the requirements of applying fundings? 15:15:33 nattie, yes 15:15:37 medicalwei[m]: I think you should use #topic from time to time, to change topic 15:16:00 We are still in Topic 1 ... (ponders) 15:16:27 for MOST (ministier of science and technology) fundings, we will need real names. 15:16:52 Can real names be provided on private email? 15:16:56 medicalwei[m]: right for agenda, but the topic is no more "sponsor" but general organizational issue 15:17:11 the problem is that we are still negotiating with MOST, and we may be not able to apply MOST fundings for DC18 15:17:42 for the rest of fundings MOE and MOEA, I am not sure if we need real names because they have not announce their rules 15:18:13 whose real names do we need? (and who needs them?) 15:18:22 Do you need all of them? or some of them are sufficient? 15:18:27 I'm sure they care mostly about the local team names and you can use the DebConf Committee real names for DebConf organization contacts where you need them. 15:18:30 So I think if people are willing to provide their names, they can just update to https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf18/TeamRoles ? 15:19:12 I think only the names for leaders of some important roles 15:19:25 https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf_Committee shall be enough? 15:19:38 I don't think you have to put real names on the website, we just need them if an application form asked us to fill that 15:20:12 From reading I learn traveling in Asia is easiest when a formal role with a group is documented. 15:20:30 The names are already there. 15:20:35 chuang: I see. We will gather that when you need it. 15:21:02 czchen: that would be fine. are the roles/names the same for DC18? 15:21:19 I mean, confirmed? 15:22:04 That could be a problem otherwise :) 15:22:18 I think the members are the same in DC18 decision. 15:23:31 #info some of the fundings requires real names of the DC18 team members and/or DC committee 15:24:04 is it okay to continue? 15:24:07 go 15:24:10 good 15:24:16 I don't mind to reveal all my personal data and phone. :P 15:24:17 czchen: yes, the wiki page is accurate. https://lists.debian.org/20170109220934.vjbobohwyw7k2jtg@dogguy.org is the official delegation email also including real names. 15:24:17 #topic 2 - Brochure & Flyer Review 15:24:47 *calls paulliu in the midnight* 15:25:41 * Peter_tw sorry I have to leave earlier, will take a look at the irc log later 15:25:47 Need someone help to add "job fair is first come first serve" in latex. I am really not an expert in latex. 15:26:08 Is there a link to a PDF? Has someone been able to build it from LaTeX? 15:26:29 * Delib waves to Peter_tw 15:26:47 I can build it in my computer. Anyone has problem building them? 15:26:54 I have no file on the computer I am using for conference, yet. 15:27:07 I have not seen recent draft. 15:27:19 pdf would be helpful 15:27:37 czchen: it's easier to ask for reviews if people don't have to build it themselves 15:27:50 The latex packages required are huuuuuuge 15:28:01 I see, the pdf is in https://anonscm.debian.org/git/debconf-data/dc18.git/tree/docs/sponsor/brochure.en.pdf 15:28:08 I'll do that. I think it is in the github. 15:28:33 And a text version? maybe on an open pad? 15:28:37 https://anonscm.debian.org/git/debconf-data/dc18.git/plain/docs/sponsor/brochure.en.pdf 15:28:39 And if it doesn't *build* on my computer (Debian testing) I'll fix that. 15:29:01 #link https://storm.debian.net/shared/qlMfj-wwbpwEYmnsobC0iL0b2gTOA1ORV19wksRzK6R ShareLatex version 15:29:32 not sure whether that is the latest version but this is a quite nice tool and it builds on storm 15:29:45 cool 15:29:51 Oooohhhhhh 15:30:16 (save the dejavu fonts which are not installed on the instance, at least the last time I checked) 15:30:46 I will try to finish brochure & flyer, but my paid job is really busy recently, so patch welcome. 15:31:09 Do we need chinese translation available at Sep. 28? 15:31:17 Or can it be postponed? 15:31:29 As for backup site in https://medicalwei.github.io/debconf18-landing/, can we make it to https://debconf18.debconf.org/ ? 15:31:40 I think Chinese version is not necessary at Sep. 28. 15:32:01 English version might be good enough for some sponsors. 15:32:12 Hello, I just catched up with backlog 15:32:25 This would require little work on static site generator, and heavily depends on DSA migration. Should I open an RT ticket for that? 15:32:31 czchen, /me has more time now for more tweaking English, but no git skills yet. 15:32:42 czchen: is someone going to start applying that style to dc18.dc.o? 15:32:57 If we'll have a co-organizer, maybe a pargraph about them (and their role) is needed in website and brochuer 15:33:15 Delib I can commit to git as we did before 15:33:28 tumbleweed: that's a static site in case if wafer is not ready. 15:33:38 larjona, then missing step is me seeing result. 15:33:57 and I think I can help applying the style to Wafer 15:34:37 I think we can add NCTU logo next to OCF.tw one. 15:35:26 czchen: thanks for that 15:35:34 #action medicalwei[m] to tweak the sites including adding brochure/flyer links, sponsorship information and NCTU logo at the bottom 15:36:11 should I file another RT ticket to put the site online? 15:36:41 If wafer will not be ready at Sep 28. 15:37:15 #action medicalwei[m] to file RT ticket to put static site online if wafer is not ready. 15:37:35 go to next topic? 15:37:35 Delib: I didn't understand. Let's talk after the meeting 15:37:43 yes 15:38:04 #topic 3 - DC17 Status Update 15:38:32 Maple is well, and is guarding the door to my room :) 15:38:47 but that's probably not the sort of status update you're after 15:38:59 lavamind_/pollo/taowa? 15:39:11 * medicalwei[m] squeezes the pollito to call them 15:39:16 pollo, any idea how long you need dc17.dc.o live still (aka when can we statify it)? 15:39:21 :) 15:39:54 sorry, I had an untimely crash there, but we can talk about the website again later 15:40:45 tumbleweed: TL;DR if wafer is not ready, i will file a RT ticket to put static site online. and i can help to adopt the style to wafer if you think it is good. 15:41:02 I want to talk about this "not ready" thing 15:41:20 i see 15:41:22 are we talking about new DSA hosting? 15:42:00 Sorry, i have to run rn, ttl 15:42:14 yes, we can return on this later. 15:43:31 delaying website? 15:43:56 Delib: we need website to be available when the brochure is distributed 15:44:15 which should be around now. 15:44:18 so 15:44:20 #topic 4 - Migrating DebConf Infra to DSA 15:44:48 tumbleweed: I think this is the topic for the "not ready" thing 15:45:09 medicalwei[m]: ok, I don't think this is blocking that much 15:45:18 you don't need the old stuff to be torn down, we just need a new VM brought up 15:45:34 and we have to do the design and content work 15:46:22 Yes. The worrying part is that this could take a lot of time and I would use a static site before everything is working. (which may look drastically different than the real wafer thing) 15:46:39 yeah, we can do that 15:46:47 but i'd encourage you to start working on the real thing 15:46:55 the longer you leave it, the harder it is later :) 15:47:18 there is a static version somewhere on github already 15:47:21 and presumably we'll run the static site on the same infrastructure as the real thing? 15:47:22 Gotta find a way to set wafer up on localhost for now 15:47:36 we could put that on a DSA VM and at least have the IPs right already 15:47:41 https://medicalwei.github.io/debconf18-landing/ 15:47:50 thanks ^ 15:48:05 PSA: I need to leave in 10 mins 15:48:15 yeah, so we need to get the DSA VM 15:48:22 tumbleweed: depending on DSA decision, and i prefer separating them... 15:48:34 medicalwei[m]: so where are you going to host it? 15:48:49 which we can ask for now or with all the stuff - say - Sept 30th. 15:49:02 A VM which... can be the same as or different to the wafer VM 15:49:09 I'd be for doing it all it one go and not everybody making RT tickets for part of the batch now. 15:49:24 I do not sense the urgency :) 15:49:25 DLange: yeah, let's just ask for this VM now 15:49:26 So, the same VM can save time for DSA 15:49:37 and us 15:49:37 oh, sorry, you were saying the other thing 15:49:48 medicalwei[m]: a DSA VM? 15:50:22 I think so... 15:50:47 I don't think we should be asking for one and then immediately replacing it with another one 15:50:49 Otherwise hosting it on GitHub is... (ponders) 15:50:52 that's just wasting people's time 15:50:54 I don't know if we could do this. 15:50:55 medicalwei[m]: can that do https? 15:51:02 No. 15:51:16 it'd be nice to keep any URLs you advertise active 15:51:35 which means we should have the wafer site in mind, when structuring the temporary thing 15:51:42 and probably use https 15:51:46 sponsorship process is pushing the urgency afaik 15:51:56 So, same VM to the static site and wafer. 15:52:04 medicalwei[m]: that's what I'd suggest 15:52:23 #info the static site will be on the same server as the wafer server 15:53:06 I can try to organise this 15:53:17 DLange: you have concerns? 15:53:36 no, not at all. CC -team and put the RT number in the pad please 15:53:59 It was said that the VM should host wafertest too 15:54:05 yes 15:54:23 easier with test data 15:54:46 we had too empty wafer tests the last two years and that was rather useless 15:55:06 #link https://pad.sfconservancy.org/p/mtvpbvwuWu for tumbleweed to add info / RT ticket number 15:55:42 #save 15:55:45 #info Formorer has ack'd the list migration for listmasters 15:55:51 olasd made me ask :) 15:56:23 :) 15:56:48 next? 15:56:56 #topic 4 - Migrating DebConf Infra to DSA 15:56:58 oops 15:57:10 #topic 99 - Miscellaneous 15:57:33 Sorry for this slow meeting ._. 15:57:46 lots going on :P 15:57:58 many biggish decisions 16:00:00 * Delib excited to see new static site design, pretty. 16:00:09 Any problem we have to talk about right now? 16:00:30 None from me. 16:00:40 nope, seems everybody is happy. \o/ 16:00:50 (is going to call the meeting... in 3) 16:01:00 * tumbleweed has 15 mins for breakfast before his neekt meeting :P 16:01:07 next 16:01:08 #endmeeting