14:02:24 <pollo> #startmeeting
14:02:24 <MeetBot> Meeting started Mon May 15 14:02:24 2017 UTC.  The chair is pollo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:02:24 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
14:02:36 <pollo> Please say hello if you are here for the meeting
14:02:42 <znoteer> hello
14:02:50 <DLange> hello if you ... :D
14:02:51 <Clint> no
14:02:52 <cate> hello
14:02:54 <pollo> meanwhile, please review the proposed agenda: http://deb.li/il9wc
14:03:15 * olasd waves
14:03:54 <gwolf> o/ - sorttof
14:04:13 <gwolf> (kids breakfast time, I'll try to tune in from time to time)
14:04:13 <czchen> Hi
14:04:15 <pollo> lavamind, LeLutin, tvaz ?
14:04:35 <lavamind> hallo
14:05:01 <medicalwei> o/
14:05:28 <pollo> #topic Registration
14:05:51 <pollo> as DLange said before, we are now around 300 registrations
14:06:06 <LeLutin> \o
14:06:19 <pollo> #info we have around 300 registrations
14:06:26 <DLange> thinks have calmed down a lot after the bursary close
14:06:43 <DLange> (2 people in ~3 days)
14:06:46 <pollo> #action pollo to ping SPI about Debian PayPal account informations
14:06:59 <pollo> stil no news from them about ^^
14:07:11 <DLange> people start cleaning their data esp. as the bursary team started to reach out to eliminate data quality issues
14:07:26 <pollo> in theory confirmation messages should be sent in May
14:07:58 <tvaz> hi
14:08:07 <DLange> I think we can do the Paypal stuff really simple but without account info, we can't do anything
14:08:47 <pollo> I think that's all the things I had to comment on for this topic
14:08:50 <pollo> anything else?
14:08:54 <DLange> (the "classic" interface is basically just carefully crafted links. The modern API is better in all ways but may be more work to integrate.)
14:09:11 <lavamind> there was some progress on the admin interface for the registrations this week iirc
14:09:25 <DLange> yes -> bursary topic
14:10:28 <pollo> #topic Venue & accommodation
14:10:50 <lavamind> waiting on info from Red Cross to signthe contract
14:10:57 <pollo> our part of Canada has seen floods recently
14:11:05 <lavamind> should be pretty good to go but they are busy with the floods
14:11:17 <pollo> so the RC's services are quite in demande
14:12:17 <pollo> anything else?
14:12:24 <lavamind> wrt venue, 2 weeks ago I mailed asking for detailed descriptions of any ongoing construction work that's going to be happening during dc17
14:12:35 <lavamind> I'll ping this week to get more info
14:13:00 <pollo> lavamind: have you had confirmation we'll have access to block C?
14:13:30 <pollo> they are doing work on the "climate control systems"
14:13:30 <lavamind> about IT infra stuff, I have a run-in with the network admin and we discussed a few things, there is more stuff to be confirmed with the it boss, should happen this week or the next
14:13:58 <lavamind> pollo: we have access to level 1 per our contract
14:14:47 <pollo> yeah, but isn't the only accessible way to get there via level 2?
14:15:05 <lavamind> no...
14:15:17 <pollo> good then
14:15:18 <lavamind> you can get to block c lvl 1 from the other blocks
14:15:29 <lavamind> you should know it's like 1 min from your office :p
14:15:48 <lavamind> (through the TIM labs)
14:16:08 <medicalwei> I would say even in current state the website isn't good for developers neither.
14:16:11 <medicalwei> Oops
14:16:22 <DLange> right content, wrong channel :)
14:17:22 <pollo> #topic Content
14:17:26 <lavamind> hold up
14:17:45 * pollo usually counts to 15 slowly
14:17:53 <lavamind> we should not forget the deadline to determine how many classrooms we need for onsite accom is june 5
14:17:55 <pollo> #topic Venue & accommodation
14:18:04 <lavamind> #info deadline to determine how many classrooms we need for onsite accom is june 5
14:18:05 <gwolf> huh?
14:18:18 * gwolf does not understand the topic ping pong
14:18:31 <pollo> lavamind: isn't that clear? as much as possibl;e
14:18:42 <LeLutin> gwolf: lavamind didn't drink coffee yet :P
14:18:43 <DLange> as many as needed?
14:18:44 <olasd> gwolf: slow lavamind is slow
14:18:50 <lavamind> ...
14:18:51 <DLange> (classrooms)
14:18:55 * gwolf hasn't either
14:19:01 * highvoltage pops in to say he is still in China but will be back next week
14:19:02 * gwolf is feeding spawn #1
14:19:16 <lavamind> pollo: we don't need 18 classrooms for debcamp
14:19:28 <pollo> ah, for debcamp no
14:19:43 <pollo> but for debconf we clearly want full capacity
14:19:57 <lavamind> it all depends on the bursary side of things
14:20:26 <pollo> let's move on then and eventually see what the bursary team has to say
14:20:37 <lavamind> so no, we don't want full capacity because just 1 extra room that sits empty is a significant wasted expense
14:21:08 <lavamind> I mean, we don't want to commit to full capacity right away
14:21:39 <lavamind> (there is confirmation as well, 10-20% could drop out at this stage also)
14:22:01 <olasd> can we move on?
14:22:04 <lavamind> yes
14:22:06 <pollo> #topic Content
14:22:12 <gwolf> ok
14:22:18 <gwolf> ...There's not much to report this week
14:22:33 <gwolf> we decided, to avoid confusion and pressure, to wait on input from bursaries
14:22:47 <gwolf> in order to announce the first batch of talks
14:22:55 <gwolf> I guess this week we might see some action
14:23:21 <pollo> #info content is mainly waiting for bursaries to get a clearer picture of things to come
14:23:59 <gwolf> As for numbers... hang on a sec
14:24:06 * larjona waves
14:24:41 <gwolf> We have 103 talks registered, yay!
14:24:53 <DLange> awesome!
14:25:03 <gwolf> (umh, that means we will have to do some further work , as there's quite a bit to rank... )
14:25:18 <gwolf> that's what I have to report.
14:25:32 <pollo> #info 103 talks have been submitted
14:25:36 <DLange> Shouldn't we have some to announce that don't need bursaries earlier than the bursaries team can finish their work?
14:26:06 <pollo> DLange: I think gwolf has been pretty clear on that
14:26:08 <gwolf> that's the plan precisely
14:27:03 <olasd> gwolf: please be more persistent in asking me things, I tend to be forgetful
14:27:05 <olasd> :)
14:27:15 <gwolf> olasd: right :) I'm quite swamped as well
14:27:31 <gwolf> Oh, FWIW - Next week I'll be in Argentina, for work
14:27:37 <gwolf> I really doubt I'll make it to the meeting
14:27:46 <gwolf> but I'll leave my bit of report with $person.
14:28:12 <pollo> #topic Bursaries
14:29:05 <olasd> We've got 187 valid requests
14:29:26 <olasd> 125 travel, the rest food+accomm only
14:30:12 <pollo> #info bursaries stats: 187 valid requests, 125 travel, the rest food+accomm
14:30:17 <olasd> the review team has been assembled, I need to actually make the alias and group memberships match up (which will happen today)
14:30:34 <gwolf> oh - touching Bursaries + content - I expect to habd over about half of our invited speakers budget... There's quite a high number of bursary requests, I hope it can be reassigned there
14:30:43 <olasd> I've spent some time implementing the review process in wafer
14:31:49 <olasd> it's ready to go, just needs the referees to be assigned to each request
14:32:01 <olasd> which will happen, again, later today
14:33:05 <olasd> this weekend I ran across Enrico Zini at the Paris BSP and he has implemented a view in contributors.d.o to allow quickly search for people which should help reviews a bit
14:33:16 <pollo> #info wafer is ready to go wrt to bursaries review process
14:33:43 <olasd> finally, there is a bit of work left to allow people who are granted bursaries to explicitly accept/decline
14:33:54 <olasd> (on the website)
14:34:37 <olasd> which should help make further funding rounds available quicker, and also avoid some email issues that happened in previous years
14:35:09 <olasd> (i.e. we can publicize "The bursaries decisions have been posted, check the debconf17 website for your status" and stop running around spam folders)
14:36:07 <olasd> I'm done unless there's questions
14:36:09 <pollo> has anyone had time to look into the new reimbursement process SPI is proposing?
14:36:14 * pollo did
14:36:24 <olasd> I didn't
14:36:36 * DLange has. Basically RT queues.
14:36:45 <olasd> but as I'm very likely to handle that side of things I should
14:37:10 <pollo> from what I understand they want us to go through the approval procedures (checking paper & all)
14:37:19 <pollo> and we tell them to pay or not
14:37:27 <gwolf> olasd: I understand you will only have to kick the process started with your approval
14:37:46 <DLange> yes and in the process approve a ticket which will get re-queued so they'll pay it
14:37:52 <gwolf> yup
14:38:19 <pollo> I think it's pretty sensible, but it also means some more efforts on our side
14:38:19 <bremner> we did that last year anyway, so not a big change in work
14:38:26 * gwolf disappears from public view
14:38:28 <gwolf> o/
14:38:33 <olasd> sounds like new is just like old
14:38:33 <bremner> I think everything was done twice last year
14:38:54 <olasd> anyway I'll look into it and we can talk about it off-meeting
14:39:02 <pollo> great, thanks
14:39:17 <pollo> can we move on?
14:39:44 <pollo> #topic Formal dinner
14:40:30 <pollo> lavamind: any news from Olympic Tower?
14:40:38 <lavamind> pollo: no, will advise
14:40:51 <pollo> #topic Approval of the new DebConf code of conduct
14:40:54 <lavamind> we can still make progress on the content of the event
14:41:23 <lavamind> we still have to pick one or more bands to play, determine if we want snacks, and which drinks we want
14:41:47 <lavamind> I guess we can discuss this next saturday
14:41:54 <pollo> +1
14:42:12 <pollo> the way I see this topic is that most of the discussion should have happened on the ML
14:42:54 <pollo> we can talk some more now, but if we don't agree on something concrete, no point in trying to write a new CoC here
14:43:23 <pollo> and the goal should then be to set a new deadline and some new goals. How does that sound?
14:43:46 <tvaz> pollo, sounds good to me
14:43:48 <larjona> same
14:43:50 <bremner> so, uh, there's like 10 messages today, and I have not read any of them
14:43:55 <lavamind> well to me it's pretty clear that we won't have a new coc in time for dc17
14:44:19 <DLange> may be we can get together during DebCamp and complete a new revision?
14:44:36 <lavamind> I guess so yes
14:44:43 <cate> DLange: but we cannot make attendees agree to such revision
14:44:50 <LeLutin> there could be some more advancement on the ML before debcamp too
14:45:03 <larjona> I guess DLange means for DC18 and next ones, maybe
14:45:17 <medicalwei> We can keep the current one and use the newer one on dc18 and beyond
14:45:17 <lavamind> I think the goal should be to adopt the new coc for dc18
14:45:18 <bremner> IMHO, after registration opened is already too late for this year
14:45:38 <larjona> I would suggest that despite of DebCamp/DebConf work on this, rely everything to the mailing lists, for archive purposes, and wider inspection/participation
14:45:52 * medicalwei is illiterate and cannot tell something weird in the CoC
14:46:02 <DLange> yes, we _have_ a CoC. I think it doesn't lack so much that we must have the new one or DC17 will go out of bounds.
14:46:28 <DLange> So working on a better revision now (on ML) or during DebCamp sounds like a good way forward to me.
14:47:08 <pollo> is anyone against that idea?
14:47:17 <czchen> Good for mew
14:47:19 <cate> for me it is ok.
14:47:19 <czchen> me
14:47:20 <LeLutin> sounds good
14:47:27 <larjona> +1
14:47:38 <cate> Just I think there is need of one responsible editor
14:47:39 <znoteer> no objections
14:47:50 <LeLutin> cate: +1
14:47:55 <medicalwei> +1
14:48:02 <lavamind> I agree with cate, someone need to own this process
14:48:10 <pollo> #agreed We will continue to work on the CoC on the ML and will also work on it during DebCamp
14:48:59 <pollo> well, atm larjona seems to be informally leading this revision
14:49:10 <DLange> I think that's larjona as she's part of the Debian-wide AH team (and imho sorted this topic somehow very nicely in her initial email).
14:49:17 <larjona> I have it in my plate anyways, since I am in anti-harassment team. But I have to say that I'm quite overloaded so I cannot commit on quick answers, and also I'd like to receive/hear more opinions
14:49:35 <larjona> And I'm not going to DebCamp, and not sure yet if I am going to DebConf
14:49:44 <DLange> I think quick is not needed here, thorough is the way to go.
14:50:10 <DLange> boo, come to DebCamp (and if you can't we can make a BoF during DebConf)
14:51:10 <pollo> I did not wanted to voice this on the ML, but to me the way we deal with things is more important than how it is worded on paper. I think having a CoC is important, but I fail to understand the specifics of the process
14:52:00 <pollo> but still I think the whole revision is important since it makes us think about how we deal with these issues
14:52:04 <lavamind> the priority I think in the coming weeks is not the coc anyway, it's assembling the AH team and planning
14:52:20 <DLange> I _think_ having the processes more defined was one of the original motivations of the group that started the revision process. Like have a "manual" ready of what to do when somebody calls for help etc.
14:52:37 <DLange> (disclaimer: second hand knowledge, wasn't part of that team)
14:53:29 <pollo> does anyone has anything else to add?
14:53:38 <larjona> yes
14:54:03 <bremner> just a general vote in favour of defined processes, from me. based on real life experience.
14:54:26 <larjona> if somebody wants to give opinion or express something but not willing to do it to the public mailing list, feel free to write to antiharassment@debian.org so your voice is taken into account
14:55:08 <larjona> about defined processes, I think it's a pending subject not only in DebConf CoC but also in Debian in general,
14:55:17 <larjona> there has been some talk in -project last weeks about it
14:55:36 <larjona> and I've proposed a BoF about anti-harassment and these
14:56:21 <larjona> but I don't feel right now confident to make a defined proposal myself, alone. That's why I left that part blank.
14:57:31 <larjona> But I'll try to work on these in the following weeks/months, and hopefully with other people's input too, and maybe for DebCamp time I/we have something
14:57:40 <larjona> That's all, for my side
14:58:16 <DLange> wouldn't these processes be the core of what the whole AH team does? As in you - as that team - should define these and (where appropriate) as for public review?
14:59:20 <larjona> I'm not sure. Until now, I've seen AH work more as consolation/mediation/advice, and propose actions, to the corresponding bodies. Not us enforcing ourselves.
14:59:38 <DLange> aah, o.k.
14:59:50 <larjona> But I may be wrong, or we can decide other way.
15:00:07 <larjona> For now, AH is not a delegated team, so I understand we have no actual powers.
15:00:18 <larjona> "we" as in Debian
15:00:45 <larjona> (the first we: we (Debian) can decide other way.)
15:01:32 <DLange> we could "delegate" for DebConf, e.g. make the AH team authoritative reg. enforcing venue (access permission, liquor, etc.) policies
15:02:12 <DLange> probably something the local team can dicuss in their next F2F meeting
15:02:55 <pollo> indeed, it's something we'll talk about
15:03:48 * LeLutin needs to run.. coordinating a meeting after lunch. will read backlog later
15:03:53 <pollo> #topic Artwork
15:04:13 <pollo> I've been having trouble getting answers for the artwork tam
15:04:24 <pollo> no needs from valessio in the last 2 weeks :(
15:04:50 <lavamind> neither have I, we don't know whether there has been any progress or what
15:04:50 <pollo> I'll contact our t-shirt printer personnaly today and will take on the t-shirt coordination task
15:05:07 <medicalwei> Actually I didn't ask valessio about dc18 things neither
15:05:46 <pollo> meanwhile I've worked on a meal card design for DebCamp and DebConf (sample: https://share.riseup.net/#CvcH_WzT6Ny7O5Z5Gc8IBw)
15:06:03 <pollo> I also did some print tests are they look pretty good to me
15:07:20 <pollo> that's all I had to say
15:07:48 <DLange> I think I already fed back Dinner -> Lunch is more common
15:07:57 <DLange> otherwise I like 'em
15:08:43 <pollo> #topic Videoteam
15:08:55 <pollo> seems we'll have some trouble with videoteam this year
15:09:03 <pollo> some important people are MIA
15:09:21 <pollo> we have a meeting to plan ahead and try to take care of this on the 24th
15:10:53 <pollo> #topic DC18 status update
15:11:19 <czchen> Any concern about venue contract ?
15:11:42 <czchen> I think we can confirm with Prof Tseng if there is no concern about the contract.
15:11:58 <hare1039> I asked Prof Tseng to borrow Hao-Ran International Conference Hall for opening/closing sessions, and he wants to know when(morning, afternoon, or night) will these session be & for how long, so he can reserve Hao-Ran.
15:12:29 <hare1039> Or maybe just reserve for whole day
15:12:35 <DLange> the latter sounds best
15:12:54 <hare1039> OK, I'll talk to him
15:12:59 <DLange> we'll release it when we don't need it or on request if there is a usage collision
15:13:26 <DLange> once that's sorted I'm fine to send a feedback email, czchen (you can do too, if you want to)
15:13:55 <czchen> okay, I will do that.
15:14:32 <czchen> Also, I am trying to lower the 10% from ocf.tw. Still in progress.
15:15:53 <czchen> Is 100k a reasonable total budget for DC18 spending in Taiwan?
15:16:18 <bremner> hard to know from outside, but it's consistent with other debconfs
15:16:22 <pollo> czchen: my best advice regarding budget is to check what we have done
15:16:36 <pollo> and look at how expensive the items listed should be
15:17:20 <DLange> your main cost will be food (which you partially get paid back by attendees)
15:17:29 <czchen> Our original guesstimate is around  60k.
15:17:34 <DLange> so I think $100k is way too much in TW
15:17:46 <DLange> yes, probably half that and you'll be fine
15:17:53 <DLange> (for local spending)
15:18:16 <DLange> re-imbursements for travel etc. on-top but mostly outside ocf.tw
15:18:43 <czchen> okay, so we can say that 50k might be a reasonable guesstimate?
15:19:26 <DLange> for now, yes. Once you have a better estimate for attendees, multiply that with "cost of three meals" and then add some for a (better) conference dinner and incidentialy
15:19:33 <DLange> *icidentials
15:20:06 <czchen> As I remember, our venue NCTU requires us not to have registration fee since we use their venue free. hare1039, could you help to check this part?
15:21:00 <hare1039> OK I can check this part
15:21:12 <medicalwei> I remember this part but I don't know if that's a written requirement.
15:21:20 <pollo> czchen: there are no reg fees, only donations people can make if they want to support us
15:21:35 <pollo> i.e. pro and corp reg fees are not really fees
15:21:59 <KanBot-0> 03Jérôme Charaoui moved the task #10 to the column "Stalled" Rent camp beds from the local Red Cross 10https://kanban.debian.net/t/10#event-1221
15:21:59 <KanBot-0> 03Jérôme Charaoui commented on the task #10 Rent camp beds from the local Red Cross 10https://kanban.debian.net/t/10#event-1222
15:21:59 <KanBot-0> 03Jérôme Charaoui updated the task #10 Rent camp beds from the local Red Cross 10https://kanban.debian.net/t/10#event-1223
15:21:59 <czchen> pollo: thanks for the information.
15:22:39 <czchen> I think that is all for DC18, any other topics?
15:23:13 <pollo> #topic Misc
15:23:24 <pollo> tvaz: you wanted to share something about childcare?
15:23:33 <tvaz> pollo, yes, can we has data?
15:23:41 <tvaz> about families / kids
15:23:47 <tvaz> for childcare planning?
15:24:01 <pollo> I think child # has to be compiled manually from text inputs
15:24:02 <tvaz> this is actually a forward from tassia
15:24:13 <pollo> but that data is in /admin
15:24:16 <pollo> and you can filter it
15:24:49 <tvaz> I didn't check all the features in the new admin models
15:25:06 <tvaz> just wondering if it's possible to have some idea without going user by user
15:25:10 <tvaz> if so, I can do that myself
15:25:26 <tvaz> otherwise I'd ask for a script / query from server
15:25:39 <DLange> I can probably make you a report.
15:25:47 <pollo> tvaz: there are very few people requesting childcare
15:25:49 <DLange> Let me check after the meeting.
15:26:05 <pollo> scripting this will take way more time than doing it manually
15:26:25 <tvaz> I'll have a look and try to extract an overview then, but DLange, that'd be appreciated you can extract more precise data
15:26:32 <tvaz> that's all on this, thanks pollo  and DLange
15:26:37 <DLange> .
15:26:38 <pollo> #endmeeting