18:34:00 #startmeeting 18:34:00 Meeting started Wed May 25 18:34:00 2016 UTC. The chair is tumbleweed. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 18:34:00 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 18:34:08 Agend: 18:34:09 a 18:34:10 http://deb.li/DC16meet1 18:34:13 yay 18:34:30 now you _start_ playing with fire, tumbleweed :D 18:34:38 heh 18:34:39 rofl 18:35:05 Rolling On the Fire Laughing? 18:35:17 rolling on the floor lighted 18:35:30 stop, drop and roll 18:35:35 DLange: oh, that's very unkindling :-( 18:35:46 diskindling even 18:35:51 role call? 18:35:56 here! 18:36:00 o/ 18:36:01 \o/ 18:36:07 made it! 18:36:07 Roll and rock! 18:36:07 o/ 18:36:07 more like a troll call :P 18:36:11 no u 18:36:12 this sandstorm agenda (or my laggy internet) is killing my browser 18:36:12 I guess I'm here. 18:36:12 o/ role'ing on floor 18:36:13 . 18:36:16 0/ 18:36:17 o/ 18:36:31 paddatrapper: why the long face? 18:36:31 it feels like we've all already been at the cheese and wine 18:36:40 azeem_: same here. nevermind looking at it on mobile 18:36:45 ginggs: he's a horse? 18:36:45 #topic Local Team Sponsorship 18:36:48 ginggs: one hand typing 18:36:54 is there anyone here who wants that? 18:36:54 paddatrapper: ! 18:37:04 yes, me please 18:37:41 we have budget for more than one person 18:37:46 some of the VAT solutions are inapporpriate 18:37:47 people can also PM me 18:37:48 tumbleweed: I think a few might closer to the time 18:37:57 so i'm aware of about 4 people who might 18:38:06 may be paddatrapper is tough to feed well enough? 18:38:07 tumbleweed: did you notice I charged two already? 18:38:18 bremner: what does that mean? 18:38:31 We also were talking about perhaps using some of it to pursaude other UCT students to help out 18:38:39 tumbleweed: in the status file, there are two people with "local" as bursary_source 18:38:45 DLange: How did you guess?? 18:38:52 bremner: oh, derp 18:39:02 tumbleweed: we can discuss 18:39:13 bremner: yeah 18:39:18 #topic VAT 18:39:30 slow meetbot is slow 18:40:00 all of seven seconds. 18:40:09 the response from CMC was: 18:40:12 Due to the CMC business model the client (conference) has to have their own vat number by which they have applied to by SARS. 18:40:15 The conference needs to be VAT registered in order to add VAT to their invoices eg: registrations, etc 18:40:19 A VAT number can only be assigned to a company that is registered for VAT by SARS. 18:40:40 how long takes that in ZA? 18:40:44 we were very clear up front with them, that we were using them so we wouldn't have to form a company 18:40:50 i.e. is it an option we still have at all? 18:40:56 sorry if this is a dumb question but why must we apply for a VAT number now? 18:41:00 I guess the problem is that the people we were talking to didn't understand this 18:41:13 highvoltage: we need to pay VAT but can't collect it currently 18:41:17 you have 21 days after your turnover has exceeded R1m before you have to (or has that passed already?) 18:41:33 highvoltage: we don't have a company 18:42:24 DLange: ah gotcha 18:42:31 so, I laid out the options I could come up with to mend this _______ in the agenda: 18:42:36 Solution 1: get a VAT number (how much work is this in ZA?) 18:42:37 Solution 2: use UCT VAT number (we are a UCT event!) 18:42:39 Solution 3: stop collections from CMC as much as possible (sponsors) and collect / pay from SPI where we can 18:42:40 Solution 4: switch on your brains folks, any proposal welcome! 18:42:57 setting up a company and getting a VAT number can be done via some banks too. FNB has a package that gets you started and I think it typically takes less than a week 18:43:16 urgh :-/ 18:43:17 highvoltage: what costs? 18:43:27 https://www.fnb.co.za/business-banking/cipc+bee/cipc.html 18:43:28 highvoltage: Yup standard Bank too 18:43:43 that sounds like a great fallback plan, thank you! 18:43:46 2) would obviously be best and kinda inline with what they apparently promised ~15 months ago to tumbleweed and indiebio et. al. 18:44:07 any chance of achieving that? 18:44:14 DLange: Yup they said we could do it through them tumbleweed what changed? 18:44:23 Ten long years ago we were in a similar situation due to stupidities in our "hosting" company... We ended up passing all of the funds through my personal account. In the end, miraclously, it didn't mean financial hell for me. But that's not a route I can recommend you to follow 18:44:23 DLange: I don't know. I can talk to ielhaam 18:44:24 DLange: INAL but wouldn't that be illegal? 18:44:37 highvoltage: the biggest issue with setting up the company is winding it down properly 18:44:55 highvoltage: no, officially we're a UCT event 18:45:06 olasd: yep, trust me the local team doesn't want that either :) 18:45:12 then surely we should use UCT's VAT number? 18:45:15 highvoltage: yeah, obviously 18:45:20 DLange: I guess the trick here is: can we get an engineering department to accept those sponsorships and pay the suppliers 18:45:29 ginggs: that'd be a question for you 18:45:30 yes, and via the CMC 18:45:47 so nothing changed but we can use UCT's VAT number to *collect* VAT 18:45:51 DLange: but the costs are going through another founded company, so that would have to be halted then 18:45:56 we pay it anyways and hence our issue 18:46:02 * highvoltage tries to step back from the details on this for now 18:46:16 highvoltage: CMC isn't a company, as far as I'm aware. They very much appear to be a university department 18:46:22 but who knows what their actual structure is... 18:46:53 highvoltage: yes, we did the same with a "Verein" in Germany for DC15. DC16 decided against such a construct at the time but unfortunately the agreements with UCT were not made in writing. 18:47:29 tumbleweed: there's a company called "Conference Management 09" that they seemed to have created very recently, I was suspecting specifically for DC16 but I thought you would know more about that than me 18:47:45 tumbleweed: well, I gave you http://www.uct-cmc.co.za/ earlier "The CMC is a professional conference organiser (PCO) specialising in association management and conference management. It falls under the UCT Faculty of Health Sciences [..]" in the about us section 18:47:47 what is having a VAT number going to help us? When we, as an engineering dept, purchase equipment, we still pay VAT 18:47:54 highvoltage: I thought that was just an account, affiliated with UCT 18:48:15 highvoltage: but as I said, who knows :P 18:48:25 ginggs: paying is not the issue as we have to do this anyways. We need to be able to collect VAT as well (from sponsors and local ZA people). 18:49:08 DLange: if we collect VAT, we will have to pay it to SARS 18:49:12 Or we will pay 14% on top of everything instead of having a transient item on the books 18:49:22 ginggs: and we can offset the one we pay 18:49:46 ginggs: minus the VAT we pay, which is what I think DLange is after. 18:49:52 correct 18:50:16 so back to the agenda sequence: Q: do we pay VAT on local CMC invoices? (we did not pay VAT on the SPI deposit of R366+k) 18:50:27 maybe a smaller team could brainstorm this? 18:50:31 it seems like a detail oriented thing. 18:50:42 if not, then we "just" need to stop collecting money via CMC (esp. from sponsors) 18:51:18 american sponsors (which are a large part) should go to SPI in any case 18:51:31 yes, anybody outside ZA is not affected 18:51:34 but now I don't think we will ahve many more sponsors 18:52:22 so, tumbleweed can you clarify the Q above with Ielhaam tomorrow? 18:52:45 #action tumbleweed to discuss VAT with Ielhaam 18:52:49 because if they charge us VAT, we need to have the VAT number to get that back from SARS 18:53:10 if they do _not_ charge us, we "only" have VAT on anything tamo does 18:53:21 so catering, bags, t-shirts etc, 18:53:40 how did accomm avoid VAT? 18:53:45 so for that we either can use the UCT VAT number _or_ we pay through SPI (VAT free hopefully) whatever we can 18:53:48 is it exempt? 18:53:52 no idea 18:54:07 may be that department is as clueless as others we have encountered 18:54:15 DLange: yup most people charge vat for everything but with my suppliers I could see what they could do to avoid VAT 18:54:34 I just want to get a grasp on the risk and then manage / avoid it as much as we can 18:54:51 section 6.2 of the contract with CMC says: The user will be responsible for complying with any VAT requirements. 18:54:54 I swear we queried that at the time 18:55:10 tamo: great. Esp. if the invoice without VAT to an American company (SPI) then we're quite good on that side already 18:55:20 tumbleweed: we did and they said they'd do it, is what I seem to recall? 18:55:37 tamo: yeah, but I can't find that in an e-mail 18:55:48 anyway, I think bremner was on the right track here 18:55:49 let's move on 18:56:07 #topic catering 18:56:18 tumbleweed: indiebio had discussed it with them and mentioned it on IRC, I seem to recall her putting something in GIT 18:56:42 DLange: I'll find out what can be done 18:57:36 tamo: great. And tumbleweed asks Ielhaam on VAT on CMC invoices. And ginggs, could you find out who we could ask about more support from EE? 18:57:43 tumbleweed: C3 are sending me the final Quote, Wayne has sent me his very pricey Quote but I think lets discuss this all on Friday once we have everything 18:57:54 and then let's throw the info together on the weekend and sort this out? 18:58:11 tumbleweed: did you get my 100's of emails? 18:58:19 tamo: yes, and read most of them :) 18:58:35 tumbleweed: wow I am impressed haha 18:58:52 DLange: yeah, i can talk to our faculty finance person 18:59:16 ginggs: great, thank you! 18:59:39 tumbleweed: I made a mistake with the security it is not R72 extra and TBC said they can bring their quote down so we are on R350 with security 19:00:22 DLange: yes definately we will have this sorted by Mon :) 19:00:29 tamo pointed out that debcamp food is under-budget, so there is some money that could be spent on debconf food, over the R300 budgeted 19:00:38 but I don't think it reaches as far as R350 a head 19:00:47 * tumbleweed hasn't calculated 19:01:04 uh. not from bursaries side it isn't underbudget 19:01:11 bremner: expenses side 19:01:14 ok 19:01:20 grr 19:01:24 * gwolf misses one more meeting 19:01:32 have to go *now* :-( Sorry guys! 19:02:02 o/ gwolf 19:02:06 tumbleweed: Yup we have almost R80 extra a day from Debcamp 19:02:15 gwolf: bye! 19:02:28 tamo: true .. but only x 100 and not x 250 19:02:29 tumbleweed: sorry R180 19:02:33 so, uh, R50 per day increase works out to be R60K for sponsored people 19:03:08 bremner: hush, we haven't decided to pass that price on to attendees 19:03:51 I honestly think 22,30$ per day for 2x food at 250 people is excessive 19:04:21 bremner: we are trying to get it in budget, we haven't received C3's quote yet 19:04:30 DLange: it has to be pretty good food to be worth that, yes 19:04:36 yes, that's more than what you'd pay in a medium size US city or in Germany. And ZA is much cheaper purchasing power wise. 19:04:47 so we're not in the fine cuisine business 19:04:52 DLange: OTOH we need foods, time is lacking now 19:05:01 true, cate 19:05:18 and I think a lot of possibilities were checked, so I don't think we can find better 19:05:31 We are working on it and we have made sure that riday is the decision day 19:05:36 but at this cost we can call-order pizza and burgers for everybody every time (not logistically but cost-wise) 19:05:44 Friday sorry 19:06:08 and not so healty 19:06:24 DLange: everyone is getting a 3 course meal practically for Lunch and Dinner 19:06:47 [and in CH you will buy only one pizza, not the two lunches] 19:07:04 yes, and that may be too much tamo. Try to stay within the R300 with everything (+security if we have to) 19:07:12 but CH is at the completely other end of the cost spectrum anyway 19:07:15 Plus it covers the Veggie side 19:07:51 DLange: the thing that is causing the cost is the catering the food is the cheap side of things 19:08:13 DLange: but we can maybe not have extra's everyday 19:08:37 DLange: I'll work on it 19:08:51 tamo: can you expand a bit on that? I'm not quite following 19:09:10 I've not seen the offers. Send them over and I can help. Or negtiate locally, that is fine for me as well. But R300 is the budget, not R350. 19:09:23 tamo: right. on DC13 we had every two/three days a simpler lunch, for cost reasons 19:09:48 tumbleweed: We are getting 3 Course meals a Day for Lunch and Dinner. For example Soup, Salads and a hot meal for lunch. 19:10:05 tumbleweed: Dinner Salads, Hot meal and Dessert 19:10:33 we probably have less than 250 meals anyways because not everybody wanted food. But the food tickets. All difficult to get the right amount right now, so the per day price is the interesting thing to get down. 19:10:42 tumbleweed: we can loose the soup on some days or the dessert and that will cut some costs 19:10:55 or the salads? 19:10:59 *lose 19:11:06 i mean, salads are great, but some people are fusspots and won't eat them anyway 19:11:22 *some* people 19:11:25 nattie: yes but we have vegans 19:11:39 and vegans can't survive on salad, either 19:11:45 well, quite 19:12:06 the vegetarian stuff should probably be vegan-by-default, but that might have to be a battle for later 19:12:29 let's try to wind this up 19:12:37 tamo will have prices and menus for all the options by friday, right? 19:12:39 nattie: really? I think vegan is more expensive than vegetarian to produce 19:12:46 My suggestion we have 3 new choices for Catering now we start the process again and put up all those menu's, with the pricing then people can decide from there 19:13:28 tumbleweed: Yup and the tasting with Wayne, I can set up TBC too if you wnat to see what they are about 19:13:51 stop eating, start negotiating please :) 19:14:20 DLange: I have been negotiating for 2 months now haha 19:14:27 :) 19:15:09 tamo: if it's not too painful, I'll happily do it. I'm also happy to help make a decision without tasting 19:15:12 and we need tamo for more artistics stuffs 19:15:16 we had TBC as the Caterers that was decided, until the venues became an issue :( 19:16:01 (I mean, not too painful to set up) 19:16:03 tumbleweed: Friday is the deadline and would like to see this to the end. 19:16:20 tamo: yes. I don't think we can let this slip any further 19:16:28 we've already had a few murders because of it :P 19:16:37 tumbleweed: not with you... 19:17:04 OK 19:17:20 dare I slip an agenda item in here, then 19:17:23 tumbleweed: haha true 19:17:37 IMHO DebConf could afford to spend more for food (also before we spend more because we are late on the rest) 19:17:49 #topic debcamp catiring surplus 19:18:10 satring surplus? 19:18:11 bremner has just asked if we use that to help sponsor attendees 19:18:26 wut? 19:18:35 tumbleweed: I would keep it open for now 19:18:36 not sure if serious. 19:18:37 19:02 < bremner> so, uh, R50 per day increase works out to be R60K for sponsored people 19:18:47 oh, that was increase 19:18:48 not decrease 19:18:50 phew 19:18:55 * tumbleweed misread you earlier 19:18:58 tumbleweed: I'm saying I've promised people food on the basis of R300 for food 19:19:10 bremner: well, yes. We're committed to feeding people for R300 19:19:12 or less 19:19:17 never mind 19:19:24 #topic network team leads 19:19:32 we have a network team \o/ 19:19:35 yeah! 19:19:48 luca and Mithrandir will co-lead the team 19:20:14 I tried to get them going on the video team status today and relayed a question back to video 19:20:41 I think tumbleweed as a member of the video team will continue to do the same in the next weeks 19:20:55 and he has organized us a storage server for video from Hetzner! 19:21:05 So thanks to tumbleweed and to Hetzner Pty.! 19:21:29 I'm in the process of establishing requirements and getting in touch with UCT's IT staff. 19:21:32 ah I didn't realise that was confirmed. nice, tumbleweed! 19:21:48 nothing to report yet, since I haven't sent the mail, and I'm still slightly dizzy. :-P 19:21:53 highvoltage: better than that, it's apparently ready to be picked up this week 19:22:13 recommendation is to grab it, install Debian and test it 19:22:25 better find out what's broken now than during DebCamp :) 19:22:34 yeah 19:22:39 tumbleweed: if it's at hetzner at durbanville I can pick it up if that's convenient 19:22:53 highvoltage: ah, is that where they are 19:23:35 Mithrandir: welcome to debconf orga :P it doesn't seem to get better than that 19:23:47 tumbleweed: thanks! :-) 19:23:48 or maaybe we're just all too disorganised 19:23:53 tumbleweed: their head office is in Durbanville, their DC is in Newlands 19:24:08 it's fine, as long as I have folks who reply when asked silly questions, which is the case so far. 19:24:23 highvoltage: right. I only knew the DC bit. 19:25:15 can we get it in a 19" rack at UCT somewhere? 19:25:29 Like borrow space, power and two IPs for a few weeks? 19:25:51 DLange: I'm guessing it's more likely to sit on a shelf than in a rack (chem eng servers are mostly not racked) 19:25:55 but that's a minor technicality 19:26:11 yes, ginggs should have space for it 19:26:12 DLange: borrow is not a word UCT seem to use haha more like pay 19:26:38 tamo: yes, we need to work with them on that... 19:27:02 DLange: mmm 19:27:03 tehy are under a lot of pressure to raise money https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FeesMustFall 19:27:03 they did not get the first two words in "not for profit" yet 19:27:20 oh right, I was supposed to be chairing a meeting 19:27:26 DLange: :) 19:27:28 tumbleweed: very true! 19:27:29 #topic debcamp 19:27:36 highvoltage: your topic 19:27:46 ah! and I just added it a few minutes ago too 19:27:57 sprints! 19:28:07 We're less than a month away from debcap! 19:28:08 hey, we could have a debconf orga sprint at debcamp 19:28:12 and also DebCamp 19:28:21 nattie: we could also do fun things. 19:28:42 * paddatrapper really should run Debian... 19:28:54 I was supposed to talk to wendar about doing a call for sprints or whether we want to do that on the website last week but didn't get to it 19:29:16 just wanted to mention in the meeting while I have everyone's attention that if you want to get involed with that, please shout 19:29:36 sounds good. Send an email and get people register their sprints so we can allocate rooms. 19:29:45 can wafer do sprints yet? 19:29:54 like x hrs "sessions"? 19:29:55 how many rooms do we have during Debcamp? 19:29:58 DLange: what are sprints? 19:30:10 azeem_: not finalized yet 19:30:18 azeem_: how many do you want? 19:30:22 tamo: you can think of them as workshops, it's coding sessions basically 19:30:22 tamo: long meetings without video recordings and much of an outside organization 19:30:27 tumbleweed: dunno, just wondering 19:30:36 so, UCT just tried to charge us for all the rooms 19:30:36 for DC15 we needed less than anticipiated IIRC 19:30:38 tamo: or sessions to discuss / work together. but mostly for coding. 19:30:41 tamo: https://wiki.debian.org/Sprints 19:30:44 highvoltage: aah ok thanks 19:30:53 we're negotiating on that. But cutting back on rooms during debcamp is probably part of that negotiation 19:30:54 but we had the open-air hacklab 19:31:10 DLange: thanks, perfect will read on the Wiki thanks cate 19:31:21 azeem_: you can have that in Cape Town too, bring a coat :D 19:31:34 (and an umbrella. Or two :)) 19:31:41 tumbleweed: will we have access to any nice outside areas if we're lucky with the weather? 19:31:42 the weather was lovely today 19:31:49 perfect for outdoor hacking 19:32:24 (we've had some beautiful june/july weather in the past, but we can't say that publically just in case we get hopes up) 19:32:32 DLange: I can add a talk-type for Sprints quickly 19:32:43 azeem_: wendar and I looked through rooms last night 19:32:44 highvoltage: Yup Cape winters are unpredictable 19:32:53 we were thinking 3 or 4 hacklabs in snape 19:33:03 wendar: sprints are organized in debian wiki, usually, with summary at the end of sprint 19:33:11 and 2 non-videoed bof rooms in menzies 19:33:26 tumbleweed: that sounds reasonable 19:33:39 there is also the possibility of hacklabs in the residence 19:33:45 cate: yes, but we need to room allocation 19:33:50 but it all comes down to money (and how much they want) 19:33:53 cate: they'd probably have to be in wafer to show up on the proper schedule though. probably won't be to hard to have it on both? just a slug on wafer and full details on wiki? cc wendar 19:33:56 cate: ok, we'll end up adding them to wafer for room allocation, but no need for people to submit there 19:34:00 maybe ramp up by 1-2 hacklab rooms by Thu-Fri 19:34:06 tumbleweed: is that something we want to do with wafer or manually? (room allocation for sprints) 19:34:17 azeem_: I would assume we'd want twwo hacklabs during debcamp 19:34:20 Will all sprints be multiple full days, or will some be half days? 19:34:45 cate: sprints that were in the schedule would be far more visible than a wiki page 19:35:07 wendar: probably a mix? 19:35:24 tumbleweed: nod 19:35:42 the other option with wafer is to schedule one page named debcamp across all the debcamp days 19:35:43 How about we wait, see how the wiki page shapes up, and then decide if we need to enter it in wafer for clarity? 19:35:50 yes, probably a mix, sprints like target + many hacking days on hacklab and discussions. bremner had such sprints lat time IIRC 19:35:51 and then it links off to a wiki page with details 19:35:52 the perl group 19:36:11 tumbleweed: yes, we should certainly at least make general wafer entries for DebCamp 19:36:13 yeah, but a call for sprints should go out ASAP 19:36:36 azeem_: I agree 19:37:12 and for wendar's question on half days, half day granuality seem reasonable right? 19:37:33 highvoltage: well yeah, but if it's a problem with wafer having day granularity is fine as well 19:37:40 DLange: I've just realised that we're late with the final accommadation payment 19:37:48 presumably it's due by now 19:37:48 *nod* 19:37:48 we had like 3-4 sprints last year, and they were rather easy to handle 19:38:02 we're beyond 30 days before attendee arrival 19:38:05 tumbleweed: as long as we don't have the VAT issues sorted, I'd hold all payments 19:38:06 and we asked months in advance 19:38:13 so I don't expect more than a few 19:38:24 tumbleweed: CMC has nudged May 30th before so we probably have a few days before they ask us 19:38:44 DLange: yeah, I don't think they can afford to play hardball on that with us right now (and they seem to have forgotten too) 19:38:48 tumbleweed: and obviously we need to know the totals of what they have received and invoiced before that 19:38:54 heh 19:38:56 hence I've been bugging you... :) 19:39:17 they also sent an email saying they were wanting to calculate that, themselves (for the venue payments) 19:39:29 so, they don't know, either 19:39:37 I want this from wafer please 19:40:05 DLange: after the meeting 19:40:08 thanky 19:40:16 sorry, that was OT 19:40:23 are we done with debcamp sprints? 19:40:44 A totally unrelated item but should we put a list up somehwere with what has been done/paid etc? 19:40:52 tumbleweed: I believe so, we didn't mark any #actions but I believe we know what to do 19:41:15 tamo: I revived the wekan board for task tracking 19:41:39 I'm now spending enough hours on debconf every day that it's useful 19:41:45 tumbleweed: ah ok, great! do you have a link 19:41:48 Hi. I'm late. 19:42:05 hi larjona 19:42:06 tumbleweed: or is that your personal one? 19:42:24 tamo: no, it's from when we played with it before. I'll send you an invite 19:42:37 tumbleweed: ok perfect thanks 19:43:12 this is a read-only link * paddatrapper 19:43:15 grr 19:43:20 https://storm.debian.net/shared/yNR03MJKGHxic2bK6B_YTadEIHgm7cd3cvlgdoUAd33 19:43:27 anyone who wants write access, prod me 19:43:52 prod tumbleweed :) 19:44:11 it just let me in without any extra requests, so DLange maybe try it with your existing account 19:44:30 highvoltage: ok, will do, thank you 19:44:35 tumbleweed: if there is time can we chat about Volunteers 19:45:12 sure 19:45:15 #topic volunteers 19:45:33 highvoltage: I can look but not add 19:45:45 DLange: I just noticed the same. tumbleweed so that's a prod from me too :) 19:46:14 tumbleweed: I spoke to paddatrapper last night and he has a few UCT students who he could round up 19:46:45 tumbleweed: but if we offer them an incentive ie: a meal or 2 etc, could that be an option? 19:46:45 Yeah I'm going to approach the UCT Dev Soc for volunteers 19:47:12 Students love free food 19:47:15 tamo: that could make sense for the local volunteers budget 19:47:28 amount of money allowing 19:47:32 bremner: Yup that's what I was thinking too 19:47:51 bremner: if it is viable 19:48:04 OK, so we can add that as a bursary time in registration 19:48:12 and ask people to register for it 19:48:19 tumbleweed: that sounds good 19:48:21 we'll have to close it at some point, and make decisions, though 19:48:33 ideas on a date? 19:48:51 also, all 3 of you should have got access emails 19:48:57 in the next 2 weeks, or is that cutting it fine? 19:49:12 Preferable before the end of the semester - 10 June, that way they are still kinda paying attention to things 19:49:25 tamo: so, 15 June? 1 week before debcamp 19:49:37 paddatrapper raises a valid point 19:49:42 tumbleweed: oops that seems a bit late? 19:49:54 oh, sorry 8 June is 2 weeks before 19:49:58 I can't read a calendar 19:50:03 june 14 will be drop dead date for anything needing input from me 19:50:13 tumbleweed: haha it is late 19:50:40 tumbleweed: should paddatrapper follow up on this as he is on campus 19:50:45 bremner: is that when you're travelling? 19:50:55 nattie: yeah, between then and debcamp. 19:51:00