18:02:30 <edrz> #startmeeting 18:02:30 <MeetBot> Meeting started Wed Oct 7 18:02:30 2015 UTC. The chair is edrz. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 18:02:30 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 18:02:34 <indiebio> thanks 18:02:35 <edrz> #chair indiebio 18:02:35 <MeetBot> Current chairs: edrz indiebio 18:03:53 <indiebio> so I'm not the best person to run this, as my web knowledge is scant, but I'll do my best and then you can guide me where I lose the plit, ok? 18:03:57 <indiebio> s/plit/plot 18:04:03 <fil> hi 18:04:54 <larjona> hi! I'm multitasking here and kid's dinner, so mostly afk 18:04:59 <indiebio> The first topic is skills of the interested people, and my thinking there is just to figure out who is involved where. I don't know if this is required or useful for anyone else rather than me though... 18:05:23 <indiebio> So if you want, please put your skills down in the titanpad - https://titanpad.com/443gTylF6p 18:05:28 <edrz> #topic roll call/skills 18:05:36 <indiebio> Hodgestar: are you around? 18:05:37 * superfly is back for the moment 18:05:55 <superfly> 20:00 is SAST is an awkward time for me 18:06:42 <indiebio> sorry superfly, when is better? It's impossible to get these times right for everyone and no one gave suggestions for the website meeting... 18:07:13 <superfly> indiebio: 20:30 is fine. 20:00 is kid's bed time, so I can't always make it 18:07:26 <edrz> scheduling across several continents is always going to be a bit hard. 18:08:01 <superfly> indiebio: also, there's so much traffic on the -team list I find it difficult to keep track across all the political debates. And I don't have time when at work to follow the list. 18:08:07 <indiebio> I see. we can fuss around for a bit, and you can read the backlog when you're back? Are you also very into the wafer discussions, superfly? 18:08:38 <indiebio> I feel ya, superfly, hopefully those will quieten now... 18:08:43 <superfly> indiebio: not really. I'm happy to take the design into CSS and templates. wafer is a bit much right now 18:09:17 <indiebio> cool, so we can do wafer stuff with Hodgestar et al, and do Design when you're ready? (or next week even?) not sure when you want to do that... 18:10:31 <wendar> superfly: it's safe for you to ignore the political stuff, and just focus on the tech you're interested in :) 18:10:32 <highvoltage> Design needs a lot of help 18:10:45 <highvoltage> we need to spend some time with tammy to get all the elemetns and raw sources into git 18:11:05 <highvoltage> we can perhaps get some groundwork done for that on saturday 18:11:06 <indiebio> The next topic is the deadline for when we can evaluate a working system, but I don't see tumbleweed or Hodgestar around to give input here ... 18:11:17 <superfly> wendar: yeah, I've been doing that -_- 18:11:21 <tamo_> highvoltage: what do you mean? 18:11:22 * gwolf raises head and tries to follow 18:11:39 <wendar> superfly: it's also safe to just focus on the layout (css/html), we can translate that into the hosting system pretty easily 18:11:53 <superfly> wendar: that's kinda my intention 18:12:03 <highvoltage> tamo_: the git repository (unless I missed it) doesn't contain the vector graphics for most elements used in the designs 18:12:09 <indiebio> highvoltage, superfly, tamo_ do you need me to help with that? Or are you happier just carrying on on your own? 18:12:36 <tamo_> highvoltage: what do you mean by vector graphics? 18:12:37 <highvoltage> tamo_: so for example, when I needed to make a swirl favicon, I had to try to grab it from one of the PDFs 18:12:38 <superfly> indiebio: I can't speak for the others, but I'm happy carrying on on my own 18:13:13 <highvoltage> tamo_: you might call them 'open files', it's the source files that you work with 18:13:30 <tamo_> highvoltage: ah ok I see what you mean, let me know how you want them all saved so I can get that ready for Sat, ie: ping, pdf, jpg.... 18:14:05 <tamo_> highvoltage: eps's and pings might work well for open source 18:14:06 <highvoltage> tamo_: that would be great, we can probably go through some of it on Saturday too? but if you could gather most of it up, it could give us some more time to socialise on saturday 18:14:50 <highvoltage> tamo_: yeah the .eps files currently in git are weird, they just open as small bitmaps for me, but we can look at exporting to .svg, that works everywhere 18:15:10 <superfly> highvoltage: what are you using to open the eps files? 18:15:13 <tamo_> highvoltage: sure, will sort out teh style guide too, just didn't ahve the energy to do it today, had to run around doing other stuff 18:15:53 <tamo_> highvoltage: ok well let me know which format works best 18:16:02 <highvoltage> indiebio: in short, the way I feel about it, if we can get all those source files into git, and get a styleguide going and lock down colours, etc, then it makes it really easy for anyone working on websites, pamphlets, interfaces, wikis, etc to make things that look and feel consistent and high quality 18:16:36 <indiebio> absolutely, agree highvoltage. I was wondering if I can help with that? 18:16:37 <tamo_> highvoltage: for sure!! 18:16:48 <indiebio> (I'd prefer not to, but happy to help where needed) 18:16:56 <tamo_> indiebio: nope no worries 18:17:03 <highvoltage> tamo_: great, you don't have to take that all on yourself though. both myself (and I'm sure) superfly would love to be involved with that 18:17:12 <larjona> tamo_ RGB notation of the colors would also help for the website 18:17:29 <superfly> tamo_: what highvoltage said :-) 18:17:31 <larjona> RGB or HTML, or whatever code 18:18:01 <tamo_> style guide has; RGB, WEB and CMYK colour guides, Images and styles used, fonts etc 18:18:06 <highvoltage> larjona: *nod*, once they're locked down, we can add them to https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf16/Artwork 18:18:17 <indiebio> highvoltage, superfly, tamo: What date can I action when this will be ready for the rest of the team to look at? I don't think it's too urgent, but we have great momentum at the moment. Two weeks? 18:18:51 <tamo_> indiebio: style guide will take an hour max! not a big job 18:18:58 <highvoltage> indiebio: I think if we spend a little time on it on Saturday, we might be able to get it to 80% done by next week this time 18:19:07 <DLange> famous last words, tamo_ :) 18:19:08 <superfly> indiebio: I'm quite busy with the next major version of my open source project right now, releasing next sunday. I will try to work in some time. 18:19:20 <highvoltage> (I don't think we want to mark it quite as finished, because we'd want some wider input if possible) 18:19:28 <indiebio> Can I set the deadline for two weeks, and if we get it earlier, great? 18:19:40 <tamo_> highvoltage: how much is there to do? I thik I am not getting what you want to load etc? 18:19:49 <indiebio> sure highvoltage, I meant the deadline for wider input, yes 18:20:26 <edrz> what exactly will be possibly ready in 2 weeks? 18:20:29 <highvoltage> tamo_: we should have vector versions (resizable to any size) of all the images we'll use again that's in the current brochure and other PDFs (so that's all open files) 18:20:34 <edrz> an html/css mockup? 18:20:39 <highvoltage> tamo_: let's lable that artwork todo #1 18:20:46 <edrz> django templates for wafer? 18:20:51 <tamo_> highvoltage: it shouldn't take 2 weeks? Just an hour at teh most? Unless I am missing something 18:20:52 <superfly> edrz: html mockups 18:20:53 <edrz> a working wafer site/ 18:21:13 <highvoltage> edrz: that's what superfly will work on (at least the basic elements) once the styles are available 18:21:36 <edrz> so #action html mockup of webdesign to present to debconf-team by Oct. 14th 18:21:39 <edrz> ? 18:21:54 <highvoltage> tamo_: it shouldn't. but I've been pestering for it for more than a month now, and we're just saying two weeks to make indiebio happy because she likes deadlines. we can have it ready tomorrow if you like :) 18:22:10 <tamo_> highvoltage: ok cool 18:22:13 <highvoltage> (and I know there's been many other things happening, I'm not complaining) 18:22:17 <superfly> highvoltage: I think it's a little longer than that. 18:22:25 <superfly> I'd much rather stick to the 2 weeks. 18:22:26 <tamo_> highvoltage: had other things on my plate sorry 18:22:35 <indiebio> edrz: no, the wafer site might take longer... 18:22:55 <indiebio> edrz: Two weeks for a design style guide, and all design elements documented in git and on the Artwork wiki page 18:23:09 <indiebio> thanks highvoltage :) (re deadlines) 18:23:16 <superfly> indiebio: I'm good with that 18:23:21 <tamo_> THE BIG QUESTION: did everyone see teh design proposal added last week? No feed back as of yet? 18:23:27 * superfly needs to duck out again 18:23:36 <highvoltage> superfly: well, besides source images and design elements, this is a good time to speak up for anything else needed 18:23:39 <indiebio> tamo_: I didn't, the file was too big and I didn't have time 18:23:53 <indiebio> oh, no, this is the website one... 18:24:12 <highvoltage> superfly: (typing for when you're back) I don't think it's optimal to obsess about page layout yet, but at least there are some ideas for that already 18:24:13 <indiebio> tamo_: can we bundle that with the two week deadline or would you want input sooner? 18:24:40 <highvoltage> (also, I'm sorry if I'm not making sense, been spending too much time in front of the screen today) 18:25:24 <tamo_> indiebio: sooner would be nicer it's been up for a week, but I'll leave it up to everyone to decide, what backend stuff is going to be worked on if no one has seen the website? 18:25:31 <indiebio> Ok ... so this basically took care of agenda point 3.1... 18:26:27 <indiebio> tamo_: I'll send an email for people to look at it if you like, but I think we're all wondering about wafer, so the focus is a bit diluted 18:27:01 <indiebio> #action indiebio to draft email with tamo about website visual design proposal to send to team 18:27:10 <indiebio> is that how one does the action thing? 18:27:16 <highvoltage> yup 18:27:17 <edrz> i think so. 18:27:59 <indiebio> great. I'm skipping over the second agenda point - the deadline for a 'demonstrable' wafer site as I don't see tumbleweed and Hodgestar here ... 18:28:50 <indiebio> Agenda point 3.2 Overall structure of website and 3.3. Content (pre-written and matrix) ... I don't know what is required here. Any ideas if this is required now and/or how to move ahead with this? 18:29:31 <indiebio> hmm. this needs superfly re content matrix. 18:29:38 <highvoltage> maybe it would be a good homework assignment for everyone interested in layout / content to go through the last few debconf sites and get aquanted with how they were done 18:29:41 <edrz> #topic 3.2 Overall structure of website and 3.3. Content 18:29:53 * edrz rusty at meetbot chairing ... 18:29:56 <indiebio> sorry edrz, I'm all over the place! 18:30:01 <edrz> no worries. 18:30:16 <tamo_> indiebio: cool 18:30:17 <indiebio> and the meetbot for today is just really to have a log 18:30:30 <edrz> i'm not sure what is meant by content matrix, specifically. 18:30:56 <indiebio> me neither. it's something superfly said, but he's ducked for father duties.... 18:31:22 <indiebio> the next point was the static site, which is up and there's been edits, thanks highvoltage, larjona and probably others too! 18:31:27 <superfly> indiebio: I had a look at a couple of conference sites, like DebConf and PyCon, and they all seem to follow the same basic content layout 18:31:29 <indiebio> So we don't need much to say there, right? 18:31:32 <edrz> maybe he means something like a sitemap or perhaps the css grid for layout. i'm not sure. 18:31:41 <indiebio> ah, superfly's back! 18:31:42 <superfly> edrz: kinda like a site map 18:31:56 <indiebio> Ok, so what do you need from us, if anything? 18:32:10 <superfly> a content matrix is basically a way of organising your content so that it makes sense. 18:32:15 <gwolf> (and we have all of the historic DebConf sites to see how much each deviates from the others :) ) 18:32:40 <edrz> probably looking back through what pages were used in past debconf's gives some idea of the information we typically need to make available. 18:32:50 <superfly> gwolf: they are all roughly the same from a content point of view 18:33:01 <superfly> edrz: yes, that's kinda what I did. 18:33:09 <indiebio> superfly: so what do you need from us, to help you, if anything? 18:33:10 <gwolf> superfly: right, I agree, I was basically summing up what has just been said 18:33:11 <superfly> tamo_ has some good ideas as well 18:33:12 * edrz nods 18:33:13 <edrz> ok 18:33:45 <edrz> iiuc, wafer stores the content as markdown in the db. 18:33:49 <superfly> indiebio: nothing right now. I need to take a look over tamo_'s design, and then back and the other sites. it won't take a long time. I think it's mostly there already. 18:33:53 <tamo_> indiebio: very confused are people dooing other sites? 18:34:06 <edrz> if possible many of us, i think, would like it to be in git. 18:34:07 <indiebio> superfly: excellent, can we bundle that in the two week deadline too? 18:34:17 <indiebio> tamo_: huh? 18:34:24 <superfly> indiebio: uh, my plate's already full without DebConf... 18:34:54 <indiebio> which is why I'm wondering if we can help, somehow, superfly 18:35:07 <indiebio> maybe a sprint at the braai? 18:35:14 <superfly> indiebio: the content matrix partially feeds into the design, but only after the style guide 18:35:15 <tamo_> everyone is talking about previous Debconf sites, site maps etc, I don't think I am understanding the full context of this all. 18:35:18 <indiebio> each take an old DebConf site and work on a titanpad? 18:35:29 <tumbleweed> indiebio: blergh, sorry. Not used to this time slot, yet 18:35:33 * fil notes that I rarely manage to find anything that I'm looking for on the somewhat disjointed debconf main site/year site/wiki that we normally have, without going round in circles a couple of times -- would be nice to make that better 18:35:45 <tamo_> once a design is decided on then you need a site map? 18:35:57 <highvoltage> tamo_: previous sites is mentioned for a guide on layout and content map. they've been pretty consistent (and good) and we can re-use good work done before 18:36:02 <superfly> indiebio: I've got some notes from when I looked at it last. I'll make those a little neater and put them somewhere, like git 18:36:07 <edrz> fil: yes. I think we can improve on that front. 18:36:20 <superfly> fil: I'd be keen to hear your input 18:36:35 <indiebio> fil: completely agree! I just have no idea how 18:36:38 <edrz> looking at the past is more to see what we've presented. we need to present it with better organisation and navigation. 18:36:39 <highvoltage> tamo_: in the context of other sites, there may be additional websites that won't be the main DC website. for example, this year there was a volunteer site, which had a different look and feel to the main one: https://summit.debconf.org/debconf15/volunteers/ 18:36:58 <highvoltage> tamo_: but we'd like to make it easy for all debconf related sites to have a consistent look and feel for next year 18:37:23 <tamo_> highvoltage: ok explain that more to me on Sat, I think I am missing something 18:37:40 <tamo_> highvoltage: you mean in teh backend? 18:38:06 <edrz> highvoltage: i personally would like us to fins a way to apply consistent look and feel to our various pieces. 18:38:20 <highvoltage> tamo_: no. look at https://summit.debconf.org/debconf15/volunteers/ and look at http://debconf15.debconf.org/ - they look completely different but are both sites for DC15 18:38:32 <edrz> though stuff that is just for internal use, like volunteers, is of lower priority in that regard, imho. 18:38:46 <highvoltage> tamo_: for DC16, we'd like to make it easier for all related DC16 content to look like they belong together 18:38:53 <tamo_> highvoltage: aaah ok I am with you now thanks, was getting confused 18:39:01 <tamo_> highvoltage: agreed! 18:39:14 <highvoltage> tamo_: np 18:40:02 <tamo_> highvoltage: but why was it done that way? to have two different ones? 18:40:07 <edrz> volunteers is a seperate system from FOSDEM that cate managed to shoehorn into talking to summit, but didn't have time or inclination to make look nice. 18:40:35 <tamo_> edrz: ok I see 18:40:38 <highvoltage> tamo_: no idea, there could be a million different reasons. maybe the styles weren't ready yet when the volunteer site was made. maybe there just wasn't time to implement it, I have no idea 18:40:51 <highvoltage> tamo_: but getting them done early will make consistency drastically easier 18:41:09 <tamo_> highvoltage: def will. 18:41:44 <highvoltage> superfly: have you considered a workflow for that bootstrap html work? I was wondering if it would be worth while forking a DC16 bootstrap before going into further details. getting some good generic layouts based on tamo_'s designs and getting the colours right, etc 18:42:35 <superfly> highvoltage: I'd like to do that to. Glad to hear we're on the same page :-) I don't have a workflow yet, I'm open to suggestion. 18:42:40 <fil> superfly: ISTR failing to find a link for registration, for instance 18:42:41 <highvoltage> superfly: then if someone like the video team needs a page somewhere they could potentially recycle that whole DebConfinised bootstrap 18:42:58 <highvoltage> indiebio: with us? 18:43:04 <indiebio> tumbleweed, Hodgestar, side comment, do you want to talk wafer tonight? 18:43:17 <indiebio> highvoltage: not really, but I like where it's going :) 18:43:22 <indiebio> it sounds good 18:43:25 <superfly> highvoltage: ah. yes, yes, n b yes. 18:43:30 <indiebio> but I'm not sure if it's english 18:43:31 <edrz> highvoltage: i'm not sure I understand how that helps onece stuff is in django templates + markdown. 18:43:36 <tumbleweed> indiebio: I can 18:43:54 <highvoltage> edrz: ah, so... 18:44:17 <highvoltage> edrz: breaking down an html page that can be used in django is trivial 18:44:37 <indiebio> tumbleweed: do you think the deadline for a 'demonstrable wafer site' is still necessary nowthat we have decided it's the way we're going? 18:44:56 <tumbleweed> indiebio: we've had a demonstratable wafer site up for months 18:45:03 <tumbleweed> I don't know what you want a deadline for 18:45:09 <indiebio> I think it's good to give a date by which time we can see what is going to be issues. But this is more like a progress report, really 18:45:18 <DLange> one that looks DC16 and has contents would be nice 18:45:18 <indiebio> coz I like deadlines :) 18:45:19 <edrz> well, we still need to prove that wafer can meet DebConf's needs and that we're definitely not going to have to fallback to summit. 18:45:36 <edrz> unless everyone feels that is a foregone conclusion ... 18:45:39 <tumbleweed> indiebio: no, I mean, what you want to have *implemented* in wafer before the deadline 18:45:47 <indiebio> originally it was because we needed to give other systems a chance, but ok, I'm fine with if it's not needed. Can you give me that link again please? 18:45:59 <highvoltage> indiebio: it's generally the best approach to continuously look for blockers and then remove those 18:46:38 <indiebio> highvoltage: explain? 18:47:19 <indiebio> tumbleweed: I want to know how to move this forward, is DLange's idea of one that looks like DC16 and has content doable? 18:47:20 <highvoltage> indiebio: ok, over braai :) 18:47:47 <tumbleweed> indiebio: that's more up to the people doing design 18:47:48 <highvoltage> for the website, that's doable even without wafer. 18:48:00 <indiebio> you mean the other contenders, highvoltage? my conflicts are between getting things done and letting people feel they're heard. it's psychological 18:48:18 <indiebio> ok, so what are the next steps with wafer, tumbleweed? 18:48:24 <indiebio> is it something I need to prod? 18:48:25 <highvoltage> indiebio: I mean, showing content and lookin like another site doesn't even need an app or cms, that's just html/css 18:48:40 <indiebio> coz we need a site working by January. 18:48:40 <tumbleweed> indiebio: DLange is organising a VM, we'll get wafer up on it, and figure out how we're going to manage it 18:48:48 <tumbleweed> indiebio: I don' tthink there's anything to prod here, things are moving 18:48:58 <indiebio> great, thanks, that's what I needed to know 18:49:09 <indiebio> would progress reports help keeping people informed? 18:49:18 <highvoltage> which people? 18:49:25 <indiebio> (please bear in mind I don't know what's going on here) 18:49:29 <indiebio> the rest of the team, highvoltage 18:49:29 <tumbleweed> highvoltage, superfly: Have you guys looked at its templates, yet? 18:49:42 <superfly> tumbleweed: negative. 18:49:53 <tumbleweed> hrm, just got a google calendar reminder fro this meeting :( 18:50:04 <highvoltage> tumbleweed: is it different that usual django templates? I know it supports some markdown 18:50:17 <indiebio> #info website/wafer: DLange is organising a VM, we'll get wafer up on it, and figure out how we're going to manage it 18:50:18 <DLange> tumbleweed: timezones++ 18:50:24 <tumbleweed> highvoltage: django is just a framework. Every django site is themed differently 18:50:43 <tamo_> indiebio: superfly and highvoltage have seen it before it was uploaded 18:51:01 <tumbleweed> DLange: didn't they used to happen at 19:00 UTC? 18:51:05 <tumbleweed> this was 18:00 UTC 18:51:08 * indiebio is wondering if it would be worth recording when people chat about this at the braai... 18:51:13 <edrz> tumbleweed: there was mail. 18:51:17 <highvoltage> tumbleweed: just looked at https://github.com/CTPUG/wafer/tree/master/wafer/templates/wafer 18:51:22 <indiebio> they did, but I moved it earlier. my bad. 18:51:34 <indiebio> #link https://github.com/CTPUG/wafer/tree/master/wafer/templates/wafer 18:51:34 <highvoltage> tumbleweed: that's the same way django sites typically worked at Praekelt, so yes I'm familiar with it 18:51:35 <tumbleweed> edrz: oh, I'm a few days behind on that 18:51:44 <tamo_> indiebio: just let me know when I need to step in the picture on all this with the Website and in good time please 18:52:06 <indiebio> tamo_: I'll try, TBH I don't know... 8| 18:52:18 <indiebio> I hope the braai will enlighten us... 18:52:33 <tamo_> indiebio: hmm me too! :) 18:53:04 <indiebio> I think I'll just randomly harass people until they give me something just to shut me up. 18:53:09 <indiebio> it seems to be working, generally 18:53:16 <tamo_> indiebio: hahha 18:53:39 <tumbleweed> edrz: at least I know why the meeting was unexpected, now :) 18:53:44 <highvoltage> tumbleweed: or is there something I'm missing or some complication/booby trap with templating? 18:53:47 <tumbleweed> I just thought I'd been forgetful 18:53:54 <DLange> tumbleweed: I tend to read the /topic so whoever sets that owns my agenda :) 18:53:55 <tamo_> indiebio: I think I am going to sign out am I still needed? 18:54:38 <indiebio> tamo_: only thing is to take note of the 'tiny brochure changes' titanpad. Not to worry about, we can meet and deal with it in a week or so? https://titanpad.com/DC16-sponsorship-brochure-tiny-issues 18:54:55 <tumbleweed> highvoltage: No, it should be fairly straightforward. But if we're able to keep mostly the existing HTML, the templating can be less invasive 18:54:58 <indiebio> and to say a HUGE thanks to tamo_ for the brochure! 18:55:13 <tumbleweed> highvoltage: it's mostly bootstrap primitives, so, fairly standard 18:55:22 <indiebio> edrz, I think we can change the topic to wafer now :) 18:55:30 <edrz> heh. 18:55:33 <indiebio> lol 18:55:50 <tamo_> indiebio: yup those can be done the sooner the better I would imagine I had suggested to MeetBotand DLange that if they need just pages inserted then that can be a quick job, but not sure how DLangeset it up 18:56:07 <tamo_> indiebio: PLEASURE :) 18:56:27 <indiebio> we could do it Saturday possibly... 18:56:37 <tamo_> Yup lets do it then 18:56:42 <indiebio> would be nice to have one printed copy there too, just to show it 18:56:45 <highvoltage> yes tamo_, great brochuring there :) 18:57:16 <tamo_> indiebio: sure will do 18:57:22 <indiebio> thanks 18:57:25 <tamo_> highvoltage: thanks highvoltage 18:57:50 <indiebio> so the wafer thing seems to have moved to #debconf-infra... 18:57:55 <highvoltage> so is the #topic on to wafer? 18:58:00 <tumbleweed> indiebio: no, it's parallel :) 18:58:04 <indiebio> Is there anything that still needs discussing here? 18:58:10 <tumbleweed> indiebio: this discussion has been theming, that has been deployment :P 18:58:17 <indiebio> oh my word, you guys are trying to confuse me on purpose :P 18:58:39 <indiebio> uh, yes highvoltage, I think... 18:58:43 <indiebio> #topic wafer 18:59:50 <edrz> indiebio: sorry ... i was just asking about some specifics of logistics. 18:59:53 <edrz> over there. 19:00:34 <indiebio> tumbleweed: so for the record, you're saying everything is all good, no action needed from anyone?? My neurotic worry is that the website lags and doesn't get done in time and ... nightmares! So what can I do to make that not happen. 19:00:57 <tumbleweed> people are currently active, so prodding now doesn't seem useful 19:01:06 <indiebio> but looks like other than the VM (virtual machine, right?) there's not much to do? 19:01:08 <tumbleweed> there are times of inactivity, this isn't one of them 19:01:13 <indiebio> good. :) 19:01:22 <tumbleweed> no, there's lots to do 19:01:29 <edrz> VM == virtual machine, yes. 19:01:33 <indiebio> Can I delegate official poker capacity on wafer to you, tumbleweed? 19:01:34 <tumbleweed> superfly and highvoltage were interested in the design, I think 19:01:41 <tumbleweed> so, we need to get them going on that 19:01:55 * madduck waves. I really thought it was 1900 UTC :/ 19:02:04 <tumbleweed> madduck: it got me too 19:02:15 <tumbleweed> indiebio: time changes really need to be announced well in advance 19:02:18 <indiebio> it sortof was madduck, my fault. I just can't stay awake that long. 19:02:22 <indiebio> tumbleweed: I did. 19:02:25 <indiebio> last week already. 19:02:33 <tumbleweed> oh :( 19:02:35 <superfly> indiebio: website will be done by January. you're worrying too much. 19:02:38 <indiebio> but it's no trainsmash 19:02:45 <indiebio> I worry superfly, it's what I do :) 19:02:47 <tumbleweed> edrz, and cate (?) were interested in contribution to wafer, so we need to get them started 19:02:52 <indiebio> I worry so you don't have to 19:02:57 <tumbleweed> but I thinkt hat'll wait for a deployment of some sort 19:03:22 <edrz> cate was. his last mail seemed to indicate he needed at least a few weeks for non-DebConf life. 19:03:30 <indiebio> tumbleweed: can I action that you are poker (aka responsible) for wafer? That way I don't annoy you guys. 19:03:38 <edrz> oh, and, yes me, too. 19:03:39 <tumbleweed> indiebio: sure 19:03:40 <highvoltage> indiebio: best thing now is for all the basics to be taken care of. so that's the design elements tamo_, superfly and myself will look at so long (and hopefully some others), and then superfly can start working properly on those bootstrap templates for dc16 19:04:23 <DLange> we need to setup a workflow git -> dev, git -> int and deployment to prod 19:04:28 <tumbleweed> highvoltage: I'll see if I can get a basic setup together before the braai, then we can see that you have working local dev, on the weekend 19:04:34 <indiebio> perfect highvoltage, and you guys are on that, and where you need help, I'll be there. But you said you don't need help so I won't bug you for two weeks unless you ask me to. 19:04:35 * gwolf would like to dip my toes in wafer, but being honest I'm too time-constrained 19:04:37 <highvoltage> tumbleweed: great 19:04:43 <DLange> Ganneff wants to do prod on the current Summit VM 19:04:52 <gwolf> so if anything, I'll be a happy fallback person for it :) 19:04:53 <highvoltage> indiebio: deal 19:04:53 <indiebio> #action tumbleweed is taking care of pokering of wafer 19:04:56 <DLange> for dev + int we have "scratchy.dc.o" 19:05:21 <DLange> (Ganneffs naming choice, not mine :)) 19:05:32 <tumbleweed> DLange: dev may not prove necessary, but that's useful, thanks 19:05:33 <edrz> DLange: can you explain what int means to you? (i can guess, but want to be sure) 19:05:54 <DLange> integration, just a normal staged deployment setup 19:06:00 <highvoltage> ooh, scratchy.debconf.org even resolves to something now 19:06:09 <DLange> as in: test before we deploy to end users 19:06:18 <edrz> scratchy's just a host name. we can have it be wafertest.dc.o or whatever as well. 19:06:34 <DLange> yes, CNAMES are free :) 19:06:46 <edrz> summittest -> milhouse. 19:06:58 <edrz> Ganneff just likes simpson's characters. *shrug* 19:07:34 <highvoltage> Ganneff has good taste. 19:08:19 <highvoltage> tumbleweed: so, I'm not sure if you read the discussion between me and superfly or if you joined after... 19:08:25 <edrz> DLange: so integration is what i've been calling testing and we mean the same thing. good good. 19:08:48 <highvoltage> tumbleweed: but the idea is to start with just bootstrap-based html for dc16, and then templatize that for wafer after 19:08:58 <tumbleweed> highvoltage: I skimmed 19:09:12 <tumbleweed> highvoltage: right, but there are multiple ways of using bootstrap, so if you use the same way, it'll be easiest :) 19:09:19 <tumbleweed> (and the same version of bootstrap) 19:09:21 <highvoltage> tumbleweed: it seems like the simplest process and might make the base easier to adapt if necessary for other sites 19:09:46 <highvoltage> tumbleweed: cool, ok so we'll match the bootstrap version. good tip. 19:10:17 <superfly> tumbleweed: how hard is it to upgrade bootstrap in wafer? 19:10:31 <tumbleweed> superfly: doable 19:10:45 <superfly> because if wafer has 2, then I'd say there's no question, it must be upgraded, but if it's 3.x, then that's OK 19:10:57 <tumbleweed> it has 3 19:11:06 <tumbleweed> I say doable because we did it once 19:11:07 <superfly> (keeping in mind that 4 is coming out "soon") 19:11:13 <tumbleweed> but it took the best part of a day 19:11:34 <superfly> (question for another day: why is bootstrap tied to wafer?) 19:11:51 <indiebio> highvoltage, tumbleweed: that sounds like something we can #action? bootstrap-based html for dc16, and then templatize that for wafer after, NB to match the bootstrap version 19:12:00 <tumbleweed> that's our primary site, so presumably that's what you're building the template for 19:12:03 <highvoltage> yep, that can happen out of meeting 19:12:19 <superfly> indiebio: yes, but after the style guide, etc 19:12:42 <indiebio> yes, I'm just trying to document what we're talking about (it's like minuting a legal meeting when you can only grunt) 19:12:53 <indiebio> #action bootstrap-based html for dc16, and then templatize that for wafer after, NB to match the bootstrap version 19:13:49 <edrz> tumbleweed: there was recently some work done on wafer at pycon.za? there was a whiteboard, iirc ... 19:13:56 <KGB-0> 03Jonathan Carter 05master 67aa22a 06debconf-data/dc16 10website/ 10css/bootstrap.css 03favicon.ico Unbreak bootstrap.css, add icon 19:13:57 <KGB-0> 03Jonathan Carter 05master 81359fe 06debconf-data/dc16 10website/index.html Unbreak index.html for now 19:14:08 <tumbleweed> edrz: yes, at the pycon.za sprints 19:14:14 <tumbleweed> edrz: but it hasn't landed anything, yet 19:14:36 <edrz> as in no new code checked in? or what? 19:14:46 <tumbleweed> edrz: https://za.pycon.org/events/sprints 19:15:02 <tumbleweed> as in the drag and drop scheduler isn't done enough for a PR, yet 19:15:04 <tumbleweed> other bits happened 19:15:57 <edrz> ok. 19:16:24 <edrz> are we still in a meeting or just chatting now? 19:16:51 <highvoltage> I think we've got our work cut out for the immidiate future and can adjourne 19:17:12 <highvoltage> immediate. it's too late to english. 19:17:32 <tumbleweed> yeah, I think we're done with wafer. indiebio 19:17:35 <edrz> verbing weirds english. 19:17:40 <indiebio> \o/ thanks all 19:17:49 <indiebio> #topic general 19:18:34 <indiebio> #note Brochure is done! revisions can be done if needed. 19:18:51 <DLange> indiebio: can you talk to tamo on Sat when you want to do the v2? 19:18:58 <madduck> \o/ 19:19:08 <indiebio> #link http://media.debconf.org/dc16/fundraising/debconf16_sponsorship_brochure.pdf 19:19:33 <indiebio> DLange: yup, it sounded like she wanted it done sooner rather than later, and we agreed to do it at the braai on Saturday 19:20:01 <indiebio> #link https://titanpad.com/DC16-sponsorship-brochure-tiny-issues 19:20:42 <DLange> indiebio: great, thank you 19:20:45 <indiebio> The CMC contract is ready to be signed by SPI, who have a board meeting tomorrow. I am now working on the accomodation contract, and after that we can truly set the dates in stone 19:21:03 <indiebio> and that is all from me. Anything else from anyone? 19:21:32 <highvoltage> Pollito says "uruugughhghg". I think he's excited to be going to nkukard's house on Saturday. 19:21:43 <indiebio> kwaaaaak! 19:21:55 <nkukard> :) 19:21:56 <indiebio> (That's hello in Pollitolese) 19:21:58 <tumbleweed> indiebio: VAT 19:23:14 <indiebio> uh. I don't know what to do with VAT 19:23:21 <tumbleweed> yeah, me neither 19:23:36 <tumbleweed> we need to talk to someone. CMC or lawyers 19:24:10 <indiebio> Belinda said a long time ago to our question "What's the tax situation like? What would we get taxed on, and how much? The only tax implication is the VAT on our co-ordinating fee." 19:24:31 <indiebio> but I think the issue is more on money coming in via SPI...?? 19:24:34 <tumbleweed> I think we needed to follow that up with more detailled questions 19:24:35 <tumbleweed> yeah 19:24:38 <indiebio> But SPI has a legal rep too 19:24:43 <indiebio> maybe ask them? 19:24:45 <tumbleweed> who won't know anything about ZA law 19:24:54 <indiebio> but who understands the language 19:25:06 <indiebio> surely this must be easy for someone who speaks legalese 19:25:09 <indiebio> in any country 19:25:20 <tumbleweed> I think we're talking cross-purposes 19:25:34 <tumbleweed> what the contract says about VAT is far less important than what SARS thinks 19:25:47 <tumbleweed> lealese is just english 19:26:45 <indiebio> so the research we did before was for companies 19:26:50 <tumbleweed> yeah 19:26:53 <highvoltage> I'm tempted to comment but I've fell out of the loop on current plans and whether debconf 16 will be a pty ltd or handled by an existing company, etc, etc. (how and where and when can I catch up with that?) 19:26:55 <indiebio> but this is probably more an incoming funds things 19:27:16 <indiebio> so... highvoltage, we're trying not to register a company at all 19:27:17 <tumbleweed> highvoltage: we're hoping to use UCT's conference management people, entirely 19:27:24 <tumbleweed> but that means that tax has to be sane 19:27:33 <highvoltage> ah, that was the status I last had at DC. ok then. 19:27:34 <tumbleweed> and they haven't told us much to make me believe that, yet 19:27:48 <indiebio> the thread that contains the name 'Belinda' in -team should get you as confused as the rest of us, if you search your inbox, highvoltage 19:28:04 <highvoltage> I've read that, at least :) 19:28:04 <tumbleweed> indiebio: can we meet with her any time soon? 19:28:12 <indiebio> we could 19:28:21 <indiebio> not sure it would help, but sure 19:28:24 <tumbleweed> or should I pester my advisors? 19:28:32 <indiebio> and pay R5k again? 19:29:00 <indiebio> I think we need advice on investments across boundaries, not company stuff like we asked last time 19:29:10 <tumbleweed> heh, no people who I pay a flat rate to. And aren't contracted to help on debconf (but can be arm-twisted a bit) 19:29:37 <superfly> highvoltage: we should use less, rather than CSS directly. 19:29:52 <tumbleweed> indiebio: I'll ask around tomorrow, and catch up with you 19:29:53 <indiebio> ask them then, yes tumbleweed. 19:29:56 <highvoltage> superfly: sure 19:30:00 <superfly> highvoltage: bootstrap uses less, and it offers variables, and other programmy things 19:30:14 <superfly> easier to go back and change colour schemes later 19:30:17 <indiebio> ok, and should I make a meeting with Belinda? How's your schedule the next two days, tumbleweed? 19:30:23 <superfly> (aka DebConf16+) 19:30:35 <highvoltage> superfly: ah I see what you mean, for the throughaway site. ok. 19:30:36 <tumbleweed> indiebio: fairly free. Yeah, probably good to meet her while I'm here 19:30:59 <indiebio> ok 19:33:43 <superfly> ah, wafer uses bower <3 19:34:13 <tumbleweed> these days apparently people just npm install their client side js 19:34:18 <DLange> meeting done? 19:34:24 <tumbleweed> so, bower seems on the way out 19:35:43 <tumbleweed> indiebio: #endmeeting ? 19:35:54 <indiebio> yes please 19:36:07 <indiebio> #endmeeting