18:58:57 #startmeeting 18:58:57 Meeting started Tue Aug 12 18:58:57 2014 UTC. The chair is vorlon. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 18:58:57 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 18:58:58 madduck: relax guy 18:59:07 :o 18:59:08 #topic Roll Call 18:59:11 . 18:59:12 i guess i'm here 18:59:14 piep 18:59:15 Steve Langasek 18:59:15 Here 18:59:16 NTW https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf14/Meetings#Global_meeting.2C_Tuesday_12_August_at_1900_UTC_.281200_PDT.29.2C_.23debconf-team.40irc.debian.org 18:59:16 here! 18:59:19 hello 18:59:20 * RichiH guesses nattie is here 18:59:21 hi 18:59:22 * gturner is here 18:59:23 [LINK] https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf14/Meetings#Global_meeting.2C_Tuesday_12_August_at_1900_UTC_.281200_PDT.29.2C_.23debconf-team.40irc.debian.org 18:59:25 hi 18:59:25 present 18:59:26 * rmayorga waves 18:59:28 * valessio is here 18:59:29 * gwolf waves 18:59:31 cough 18:59:33 o/ 18:59:33 my goodness 18:59:38 will leave towards 45min from now 18:59:39 dc14 must be near 18:59:45 * nattie hands moray a cough-sweet 18:59:46 #link https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf14/Meetings#Global_meeting.2C_Tuesday_12_August_at_1900_UTC_.281200_PDT.29.2C_.23debconf-team.40irc.debian.org 18:59:52 * harmoney is sorta here 18:59:57 hey, lotsa peoples 19:00:04 * blarson sneeze 19:00:19 Yup 19:00:32 #topic Venue: final room configuration 19:00:49 * vagrantc here 19:00:51 * _rene_ also here 19:01:03 so, as discussed on list, I sent in the request to PSU to grab us room 338 for the week, in addition to rooms 327/8 and 329 (with a different split than before of the air walls) 19:01:19 that should meet our needs for talk space per the talks team, and should be ok for video team AIUI 19:01:22 hi 19:01:45 I'm just waiting for PSU to get back to me with a final confirmation of the reservation change & amount, but I believe we're on track here 19:01:50 sounds good 19:01:54 any questions? 19:02:00 Just a note. 19:02:09 (Eb?) 19:02:15 ana also raised a question on the list about renting an added small room for BoFs 19:02:23 but I didn't see any responses from the team 19:02:30 I had occassion to spend some time at PSU, specifically in the Vanport and ballrooms (which we have) - both are pretty cold. People will want to bring layers. 19:02:30 which I assume means no one thinks this is important 19:02:36 Then again, it's Portland. Peope should bring layers anyway. 19:02:55 harmoney: maybe you can shoot a mail to Mark to ask him about thermostat control? 19:03:11 vorlon: Looking around the rooms, I assure you we will not have thermostat control. 19:03:17 harmoney: reminding people will be sensible, including in a final reminder message 19:03:26 harmoney: might be good to send a short message tomorrow with a few reminders, such as appropriate clothing. 19:03:30 not everyone may be used to the US "make the inside of buildings freezing" idea 19:03:42 I've lived here all my life, and *I'm* still not used to it. 19:03:44 harmoney: not /in/ the rooms, I assume it's somewhere else but that maintenance may be able to help us with it 19:04:07 vorlon: I talked with ana, I would not really like renting aditional rooms, as too many parallel sessions would dillute things further 19:04:09 I'll ask, but I have little faith. 19:04:15 gwolf: ok, then we're in agreement 19:04:26 #action harmoney to ask PSU about thermostat control for the vanport/ballroom area 19:04:29 so, she decided to send the mail and see if anybody jumped. Fortunately, nobody did 19:05:00 it sounded like other available spaces are fine for informal meetings 19:05:05 including local bars or whatever 19:05:16 harmoney: *THANKS* 19:05:22 cool is cool. Frigid is not. 19:05:49 anything else on rooms? 19:06:25 #topic Dining: projections for number of sponsored/non-sponsored diners at each meal? 19:06:53 so in the latest mail from PSU this morning, I'm being told that they want a constant number for the week rather than per-meal 19:06:57 which is irritating 19:07:01 We *have* collected relevant data in some previous years 19:07:11 but most of the time we then lost the data :) 19:07:23 because I think we do have enough data that we could give them more precise numbers, instead of them overcharging us for meals we know won't be used 19:07:29 vorlon: HD wanted that too and then I said that this just means food thrown out and that broke them 19:07:44 madduck: I assume that doesn't work for Americans 19:07:44 i.e. not the money card, but the waste cared 19:07:55 (as a general rule) 19:08:02 madduck: I thought you'd been to the US :p 19:08:10 besides, they'd be free to give the overage to charity on the backend 19:08:13 moray: 12 years ago… 19:08:57 so anyway, this being the case I think we probably want to go with the 85% figure 19:09:06 (committing to pay for meals equal to 85% of our sponsored attendees) 19:09:19 what happens if more people ask for food? 19:09:38 vorlon: but the first days there are much less people 19:09:41 i.e. 90% show up? 19:10:15 this keeps us close enough to the top to avoid running out of food, while not consistently overpaying 19:10:22 vagrantc: then we just pay for them, apparently they can accomodate 100 on the spot 19:10:23 vagrantc: the cafeteria will have a buffer 19:10:36 madduck: yes, except they're backpedalling on that too 19:10:38 vorlon: 85% sounds good. even 80% would work with the 100 people buffer 19:10:41 and saying "maybe 50-60 instead of 100" 19:10:50 however, our total number of sponsored attendees is ~140 19:10:52 so 85% 19:10:54 probably ~130 19:11:24 vorlon: in previous years, caterers became more flexible when it came to the actual period ... but I don't know if there are layers of management/charging here 19:11:24 if leftover food is not thrown out but given to a shelter, then i suggest 85%, since we have a budget that allows it 19:11:26 so if everyone sponsored shows up for a meal, that's still only ~20 people above our committment 19:11:37 vorlon: can we use a number for dinner and another for lunch? 19:11:57 moray: there are absolutely layers of management, PSU subcontracts this to one of the big horrible institutional caterers 19:12:02 ana: I don't know - I will ask 19:12:05 my impression is more people stay at the venue for lunch, while is more common going out for dinner 19:12:09 exactly 19:12:13 vorlon: other question: let's say I (purposely) miss dinner, or there isn't any left, how easy is it for me to get food? And how much does it cost for an evening meal? 19:12:26 madduck: Very easy. 19:12:30 and costly? 19:12:39 Restaurants across the street, food carts down the block. 19:12:43 madduck: key updated 19:12:48 Ganneff: super, thanks. 19:13:12 Food carts are very affordable. I would guess $5-$10 per meal depending how much you get. Restaurants/pubs - as, always, depends on where you go, but plan on min $10/meal. 19:13:13 madduck: yes, there's lots of other food options around, I'd say you should be able to get a good dinner for < $20 and a great meal for < $30 19:13:22 if it's easy and not too costly, I think 85% is too much. 19:13:23 Also as an example some of the locals might not eat dinner and may go home? 19:13:32 I know I will be going home for dinner ;) 19:13:35 madduck: also depends on the weather 19:13:39 and just on what other people do 19:13:43 bkerensa: That's a very small number. 19:13:45 madduck: as ana says, people will likely eat lunch close by and go out for dinner 19:13:46 and on the perceived food quality 19:13:53 in the venue and outside 19:14:02 let's assume we can use a different number for lunch vs. dinner - if so, what should those numbers be? 19:14:09 which will change the numbers of people actuallyshowing up... 19:14:18 vorlon: given that it's only for 130 people and that they can do ±50, I would go with 80% even 19:14:20 the food carts are great, I can easily see groups of people going to them (and probably more likely in the evening) 19:14:31 bkerensa: as harmoney says, i think home eaters will be _very_ few 19:14:39 vorlon: 90%–95% for lunch, 80% for dinner. 19:14:43 home eating is killing catering! 19:14:52 if we have 130 sponsored, we wouldn't normally have them all attending on the same day anyway 19:15:02 madduck: ah, I was going to go lower 19:15:04 what is the maximum on a single day, perhaps less? 19:15:06 moray: i think partial attendance isn't that high 19:15:12 vorlon: I am fine with lower 19:15:19 moray: not enough to make a difference, but I'll check the actual numbers 19:15:28 ok 19:15:35 madduck: I was thinking 85% for lunch, 75-80% for breakfast+dinner 19:15:43 anyway, as above, it is in our interest to under-estimate, it appears 19:16:01 vorlon: sounds good. 19:16:05 breakfast will be most variable depending on quality and depending on nighttime drinking options 19:16:09 I also have to sort out the details for special diets 19:16:12 if we find out we are constantly below, we can improvise 19:16:17 some years a big proportion of people skipped breakfast 19:16:22 maybe because they're smaller batch, they have less flexibility 19:16:22 or convince the caterers. 19:16:28 but I'll sort that out 19:16:32 and breakfast is very early this year 19:16:36 85% for lunch or brunch and 75% for dinner sounds good 19:16:39 yeah, breakfast declines rapidly throughout the week 19:16:40 probably some people will skip it 19:16:43 madduck: if the guesstimate is way too low, they can put out more bread or cook a ton of noodles 19:16:51 or artisanal corndogs 19:17:06 * RichiH supposes that there's some elasticity in all kitchens, even if they like to pretend they need exact numbers 19:17:10 Clint: hand-crafted 19:17:11 #agreed set meal committment at 85% of the sponsored head count; if we can do it by meal, set at 85% for lunch and 75-80% for breakfast+dinner 19:17:12 That's not really how it'll work here. 19:17:30 The caterer is large enough, if there isn't enough, they shrug and point you to the nearest coffee shop to get a donut. 19:17:32 #agreed brunch is also 85% 19:18:07 yes, as Patty says I don't think we should assume flexibility on the part of the kitchen staff. This is corporate. 19:19:10 vorlon: it kind of depends on their normal procedure 19:19:25 moray: They're not flexible. 19:19:27 vorlon: in some previous university food setups it was easy as they were used to preparing food on a rolling basis 19:19:36 rather than just one huge batch 19:19:42 moray: yes, those were probably not subcontracted to the devil 19:19:51 but maybe here they need to type the number into the factory machine a day before 19:20:40 moray: It's not an instance of "factory machine punching". It's a very large corporation that doesn't serve us. They serve the university. They don't really care about being flexible forus. 19:20:44 And they won't. 19:21:29 so who does the "maybe plus 50 or 100" come from? 19:21:35 harmoney: if you state their inflexibility as so high, I would reduce a bit the percentages eating out 19:21:39 can we rely on the "+50"? 19:21:44 so, given that they're not flexible, and there are plenty of other food options... what's the problem? 19:21:48 as I'd feel unfair for sponsored people to be told "sorry, no more food" 19:21:51 moray: probably, yes. 19:22:05 If they *do* honor the +50, I'm fine with what's been agreed 19:22:08 moray: yes, we can rely on the +50 19:22:18 because we're being told by the university that we can rely on it 19:22:37 we cannot rely on the kitchen staff being willing to make more food for us on demand, beyond what's already promised 19:22:38 ...but if they *are* strict, bureaucratic and mean, we will have unhappy people - and the meal costs is not that high 19:22:53 vorlon: ok 19:23:01 gwolf: they won't be able to do that. I am sure we will find a way if we really have hungry people. 19:23:21 so I think the original #agreed above still fits 19:23:24 shall we move on? 19:23:26 ...I would even go as far as offering sponsored people left without food that need it to refund them (out of DebConf budget) if they are sent to eat outside 19:23:27 +1 19:23:27 yes 19:23:28 Portland has good food everwyere 19:23:32 I don't know if you'd agree. 19:23:40 say, the cost of a normal meal of ours 19:23:53 (yes to vorlon, not sure about gwolf's point, depends on circumstances, but I don't think we need to expect that to happen) 19:23:55 (FWIW, I don't plan on playing that card myself - but some people might need) 19:23:55 gwolf: I don't think that's a contingency we have any reason to worry about 19:23:58 gwolf: can I take you out to dinner once ;) 19:24:02 the risk of mis-sizing our meals is small 19:24:15 #topic Network: switch inventory and finalized configuration 19:24:16 madduck: I am able to pay for some meals. But some people might not 19:24:21 kees: around? 19:24:42 kees, myself, and Keegan Ferrando (close friend + attendee + switch donor) have been discussing bringing 14 switches 19:24:48 "(8) - 3560 48 port 10/100 Switches; (4) - 2950 48 port 10/100 Switches; (2) - 2960 24 port 10/100 PoE Switches; * All switches have two GigE uplink ports." 19:24:49 so we've had some discussions at local meetings about hardware possibilities - ah 19:24:53 there we go 19:24:55 :-) 19:25:01 right, I wanted to get this recorded in a meeting where we actually take notes ;) 19:25:01 gwolf: I was kidding. I am sure we can find a way. If there are sponsored hungry people who can't afford dinner, I'll buy it once. Some others will buy it at other times. 19:25:28 madduck: no problem :) But I'm actively trying to de-focus this on the individual :) 19:25:33 gturner: should i try to get some more donated from freegeek? 19:25:36 (am / was) 19:25:37 gturner: or is that enough? 19:25:49 14 switches sounds like an awful lot 19:25:51 we were hoping to have the switches de-configured and ready by today, but we partied too much last weekend =) 19:25:53 gwolf: We will, of course, handle situations on a case-by-case basis. Worst case, if they're not horrible people and they don't irritate me, I'll buy them the lunch they miss. 19:26:08 previously we said on list we wanted 1 24-port switch for each hacklab, of which there are only 2 19:26:09 vagrantc: i got the feeling it's enough, haven't heard much from kees though 19:26:20 12 48-port switchis is surely overkill :-) 19:26:25 vorlon: i recall that being 1 per table... 19:26:28 vorlon: epends on how many havey doors we need to keep open 19:26:37 moray: I can bring alphas 19:26:43 (depends/heavy/sorry) 19:27:24 gturner: I think that's clearly sufficient - so I think we can consider this in hand 19:27:42 gturner: are you happy for me to leave this with you from here out? 19:27:52 tmancill: ^^ info about switches, fwiw 19:27:53 vorlon: sure! 19:27:57 vorlon: I have one more question about food at the end of this topic — sorry… 19:27:57 gturner: are those procurve? 19:28:07 gturner: I was planning on bringing 2 similar switches to donate to the pool, but sounds like I should leave them home? 19:28:10 #info gturner working with Keegan Ferrando to provide the switches, we have more than enough 19:28:15 taggart: procurve, isn't that HP? no - they're all Cisco 19:28:21 CarlFK: coal to newcastle 19:28:46 vorlon: what? 19:29:06 CarlFK: don't bring them. Were you planning these to be part of the video team freight shipment? 19:29:07 i think that means "redundant" 19:29:14 gturner: oh, similar model numbers... 19:29:30 gturner: i think all 48 port 3560 have four 1g sfp ports 19:29:47 CarlFK: the expression is "like carrying coal to Newcastle", i.e., bringing something to a place that already has plenty of it :) 19:29:51 is the assumption that most attendees will use wired? 19:30:00 vorlon: yes. I have small 8 ports for the talk rooms. good, that will shave about $5 from shipping cost :p 19:30:09 heh 19:30:19 RichiH: i'd be surprised if Keegan mis-accounted the 1g sfp ports 19:30:20 taggart: it is an important backup plan 19:30:23 in recent years few attendees used wired connections, except when wireless broke too badly 19:30:44 gturner: ^^ right, if CarlFK isn't bringing the small switches, we probably want to use some of Keegan's for the in-talkroom video team setup 19:30:45 beyond the video team, wired connections were mostly demanded for dev boards and similar 19:30:55 gturner: pretty sure the count you gave is still sufficient :) 19:30:58 no no.. I'll still bring the small ones. 19:31:02 gturner: there's four: http://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/collateral/switches/catalyst-3560-series-switches/product_data_sheet09186a00801f3d7d.html 19:31:09 e.g. one table per hacklab with wired for attendee use 19:31:16 (if wifi works...) 19:31:22 RichiH: okay, i'll point that out to Keegan and see what's up 19:31:24 CarlFK: speak plainly please, sarcasm and IRC meetings don't mix 19:31:27 vagrantc: yeah in the past I usually used wired 19:31:32 moray: that's good to hear 19:31:58 I will bring the switchs needed to make videos 19:32:02 gturner: just to make sure: the 3560 and 2960 have sfp uplink, the 2950 have gbic. keep that in mind when planning spares, etc 19:32:13 taggart: but if wifi is problematic, the wired demand of course quickly goes to >100% of attendee numbers 19:32:17 but yeah, by and large we assume people will prefer wireless, until we start DoSing the university's wireless since they won't let us put up antennas 19:32:19 we also have a bunch (like 24!) of Access Points, we could bring them for standby in case the PSU wireless network falls over 19:32:32 * vagrantc cannot count the number of debconfs where countless people complain about wireless within 1 meter of a perfectly functional wired connection 19:32:33 gturner: that was going to be my next comment ;) 19:32:39 gturner: Yup. 19:32:45 gturner: at dc13 we installed APs of our own and had redundancy from day 1 19:32:53 no idea about local possibilities & policies, though 19:33:07 I'm working on being Ms. Assertive Assertypants for if the network does break. 19:33:22 RichiH: right, local policy is that PSU doesn't want us to run our own wireless 19:33:24 harmoney: towards the university or attendees? 19:33:30 moray: Yes. 19:33:37 harmoney: you better keep track of all the personalities you've announced, because I cannot anymore. 19:33:56 madduck: put them on a wiki page? 19:34:31 (but now I'm violating vorlon's anti-sarcasm rule) 19:34:48 aside... can someone explain to me why https://debian.titanpad.com is demanding an account? 19:35:06 (asking in light of later agenda items 19:35:07 ) 19:35:12 anti spam? 19:35:15 I don't think that is new 19:35:16 #topic Network: lead needed for setup, to mindmeld with Kees 19:35:16 gturner: this bad since their Wireless is already throttled 19:35:19 ask mikap for details. 19:35:28 Mmm 19:35:51 bkerensa: indeed. plus it has an annoying 24-hour captive portal 19:35:53 vorlon: do you need a new tatanpad? I've the passwords, so I can create new pages 19:36:17 cate: we should have a couple, for drafting upcoming announcement mails, please 19:36:24 so, network lead for setup 19:36:31 gturner: you may already be in the loop on this? :) 19:36:42 I'm not sure if kees has already designated his local proxy 19:36:44 vorlon: sorry not much :( 19:36:46 ok 19:37:03 Is Kees not leading? 19:37:06 Keegan offered to volunteer, so would i with deployment, etc. but lead? no 19:37:14 so the deal is that kees is in charge of the network setup, but is not able to be physically present during the setup days 19:37:22 https://debian.titanpad.com/19 https://debian.titanpad.com/20 19:37:34 we need someone to take point on this, starting from Thursday the 21st 19:37:42 I have volunteered to help deploy 19:37:51 cate: those urls are also demanding a login 19:38:02 and there's no account creation option :P 19:38:30 vorlon: now they should be ok. Default the pad are private 19:38:36 * vagrantc wonders why gobby fell out of favor 19:39:07 taggart: when are you arriving? 19:39:12 cate: thanks 19:39:16 vorlon: first taking a large step backwards.... this is just the wired net? and some sort of router/nat thing? 19:39:36 vagrantc: because downloading and executing signed code is harder work than automatically downloading and executing unsigned code 19:39:39 BTW in debian wiki (IIRC) there is the procedure to find the password 19:39:45 vorlon: thursday afternoon, I hope to work a couple hours in the evening and 4-5 hours on friday 19:39:54 taggart: wired net, two networks video team and conference, nat is via the university 19:40:09 taggart: work> for your day job or for DebConf? :) 19:40:13 account data are stored on /home/debian/misc/titanpad-password on master.debian.org 19:40:16 vorlon: is someone doing a local mirror/gobby/etc? 19:40:24 vorlon: for debconf 19:40:39 isn't there already a local mirror on campus? 19:40:55 taggart: university has a local mirror already, we can't run services on the conference network but we can look into a hosted server with cat.pdx.edu if someone wants to drive this 19:41:21 and maybe ftp master have done local package upload stuff in the past? 19:41:28 taggart: however, the current agenda item is about finding a patsy^W delegate to run point for these things :-) 19:41:46 vorlon: could we use the Nathan W box for that? 19:41:48 umm, do we have external access to stuff at debconf, ie ssh, for people like me? 19:42:02 or the video relays? 19:42:04 vorlon: I have memories in nyc of people trying to make a sheevaplug be the router/nat/etc 19:42:15 those were guruplugs 19:42:16 I can throw a vserver at you guys in the pdx.edu FAB NOC 19:42:25 Ganneff: er, what stuff are you expecting to ssh into? is this another one of these requirements that no one bothered to share with us? 19:42:30 jrayhawk: \o/ 19:42:41 vorlon: if the university is supposed to be doing all the dhcp and routing, it's just a matter of plugging things in right? 19:42:50 vorlon: cause I am good at plugging things in! 19:43:02 vorlon: machines? i assumed there is video and streaming it? 19:43:10 taggart: I do not think that is the case 19:43:24 taggart: no, it's a matter of making it actually work when the university inevitably fails to deliver service to us, or the ports are automatically shut off because we've plugged switches in and they give us a hard time about fixing them, etc 19:43:37 I have zero cisco experience tho, so maybe bkerensa/ gturner / etc could own that 19:43:38 Ganneff: yes, why do you need/expect remote access to them? 19:43:56 taggart: my cisco experience is terrible to say the least... I would be RTFM'ing to the max 19:44:01 vorlon: yeah I sort of expected that 19:44:13 <_rene_> vorlon: I think the admins should have access to them, no? :) 19:44:13 i always had and always helped debconf even when not there? parts of setup, users, bla? parts of streaming stuff, ... 19:44:25 I just asked bkero who is a sysadmin for Mozilla if he could help out 19:44:42 Perhaps we could ask blkperl to do the cisco configs? 19:44:42 taggart: so - do you want to be our official local network lead during setup? :) you will have helpers, we just need there to be a lead / point of contact 19:44:44 bkerensa: I am hoping we won't need to do anything with them though, maybe physically separate nets for video and conf so no vlans needed? 19:44:48 what day can we begin setting up the wired lan? 19:44:51 21st? 19:45:05 vorlon: ok, as long as starting thurs afternoon is ok 19:45:11 i mean fine, if it all falls out of the sky magically all the less work for me, but i doubt that 19:45:14 Ganneff: https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/Videoteam/Network says nothing about public IPs and remote access. We have not negotiated this with the university. 19:45:27 vorlon: will cable reels and crimping stuff be available? 19:45:45 taggart: kees is preordering cables of the needed lengths 19:45:46 taggart: I hope so and if thats the case I think given our limited cisco experience we could do it 19:45:51 and maybe a bunch of prefab cables of various lengths? good 19:46:27 since dc5 that would be the first conf without any public ip. thats ... just wow. 19:46:31 but meh, one could do vpns 19:46:42 I can also bring a spool, RJ45s, and a crimper. 19:46:53 I can bring my crimper too 19:46:55 without going into too much detail, something that could do QoS before going out to the university might be a good idea 19:46:58 taggart: but I would ask that you sync with kees on the rest so we can move on with the meeting 19:47:00 The more spare parts, the merrier. 19:47:08 Might be nice to have tester for the cables? 19:47:18 eh, that's what MDX-capable laptops are for. 19:47:23 :P 19:47:28 #agreed taggart to be our local lead on the network setup, starting afternoon of Thursday the 21st 19:47:34 \o/ 19:47:44 Ganneff: could you uopdate https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/Requirements/Network ? 19:47:45 #topic Schedule for local stand-up meetings during DebConf? 19:47:46 having an (outside) accessible network is just so much standard and normal that probably noone bothered to write this down, but it was never needed to mention before. 19:47:53 taggart: cool I will sync up with you Thursday let me know time of day to meet! 19:48:16 bkerensa: ok, will msg 19:48:17 btw taggart, Keegan is offering Cisco expertise, but will only be available on Thursday, maybe some of Friday, then not much on the weekend. 19:48:18 Ganneff: not only did no one bother to write this down, no one bothered to respond to kees's repeated requests for input on the mailing list. Moving on now. 19:48:39 so I put this on the agenda because I'm not sure it's obvious to everyone or not 19:48:53 I've seen the team do local stand-up meetings in previous years 19:48:54 oh fine, i dont care if it all wont work. less work for me, have fun failing parts of usual service 19:48:54 vorlon: is this bofs and our plan? am i organising this? 19:49:07 and I think it's a good idea to continue having these 19:49:11 Ganneff: I fail to see how that's constructive. 19:49:14 madduck: this has nothing to do with bofs 19:49:20 ah, orga meetings 19:49:24 jrayhawk, bkerensa: excellent. is it cat6? 19:49:41 vorlon: yes, they are useful, though less so once everything is working well 19:49:42 Ganneff: I am sure we can find a way to get you access from the outside, and if by way of my laptop… 19:49:45 * gturner waves to kees 19:50:00 vorlon: better at lunchtime; in the evening attendance drops off too quickly (and there are more silly arugments) 19:50:00 so, those who have previous DebConf experience: is a daily stand-up the right model? like, a quick 15-minute thing during the lunch break? 19:50:05 daoly meeting. videoteam repeat since years not to do it at noon 19:50:06 Ganneff: I could bring a raspi or somesuch for permanent connection… 19:50:16 cate: what does "at noon" mean? 19:50:23 at lunch 19:50:26 Beats me. Having slightly twistier pairs does not offer enough of an advantage to warrant going out to my car to check. 19:50:27 quick catch-up orga meetings are a good thing 19:50:30 gturner: hi! 19:50:32 they want to setup things and eat 19:50:36 cate: then when? 19:50:47 vorlon: i suggest to schedule them every day 15 minutes before lunch as an incentive to keep them short 19:50:59 the video team is either setting things up, or recording things, or eating 19:51:06 the lunch hour is the only time I see open 19:51:19 vorlon: I don't know. We never get an answer of "when" 19:51:21 lunchtime is the only time that usefully works, except another scheduled break ... but then the video team would be busy or resting too 19:51:27 jrayhawk: okay, if video team is okay with non-cat6, that's fine. there were some minimum network speed requirements for that portion of the network. 19:51:38 cate: so, if the video team is not happy with the status quo, I think they need to propose an alternative 19:52:12 vorlon: but we need to make happy videoteam for they grat committement 19:52:15 i think the videoteam should schedule their own daily meetings if they desire to have them 19:52:31 cate: you have not proposed a concrete change that we can make which will make the videoteam happy 19:52:46 nattie: I don't think this is about that, but about some video team members strangely wanting to also attend the general meetings 19:52:53 in DC10 there was evening meeting, IIRC 19:52:56 despite already having a "full time" job 19:53:04 cate: yes, and it failed after a few days 19:53:07 with zero attendance 19:53:24 and the real meetings happening in secret corridots 19:53:27 corridors 19:53:28 video needs 100mb over cat5. anything else is nicer but not needed. 19:53:28 moray: but also lunch meeting in DC12 there was few days with nobody 19:53:29 evening is not a good time. 19:53:40 is there a coffee break time scheduled? 19:53:46 so lunch, there is not much alternative 19:53:49 cate: we have tried evening more times than dc10, also without good results 19:54:00 nattie: video team wouldn't like that time either 19:54:04 there is one empty 30mins spot on the schedule I think 19:54:09 from 3:15-4pm? 19:54:12 rmayorga: is it consistent? 19:54:22 nattie: the shorter the break, the worse for video team for us to put something in it 19:54:38 nattie: I think so, let me confirm 19:54:40 moray: otoh, lunch is only 1.5h and people have to eat lunch 19:54:54 so the effective break length then is even shorter 19:55:24 3:30-4pm seems ok to me, but I'm not the expert 19:55:27 vorlon: orga team should be allowed to jump queues… 19:55:55 after 14:30 talks, we have end at 15:15, next batch of talks starts at 16:00 19:55:58 madduck: well, we don't have exclusive control over the dining room, maybe somebody jumps a queue and gets beat up ;) 19:56:34