18:01:11 <gaudenz> #startmeeting
18:01:11 <MeetBot> Meeting started Tue Jul 23 18:01:11 2013 UTC.  The chair is gaudenz. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:01:11 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
18:01:17 <gaudenz> #chair nattie
18:01:17 <MeetBot> Current chairs: gaudenz nattie
18:01:19 <XTaran> h01ger: Is that good or bad? :)
18:01:34 <XTaran> Oops. Already started. Hi.
18:01:34 * h01ger suggests to first add some topics to the agenda
18:01:41 <gaudenz> I suggest we do a quick roundtable, or do you want to skip that?
18:01:42 <OdyX> srsly?
18:01:51 <OdyX> quick roundtable plz
18:01:52 <h01ger> gaudenz, please add it to the agenda
18:01:53 <h01ger> +yes
18:01:54 <nattie> yeah yeah, i'm getting there, just had to fetch a drink
18:01:55 <gaudenz> #topic agenda
18:02:02 <h01ger> gaudenz, danke
18:02:05 <h01ger> i was to ask for it
18:02:30 <OdyX> done
18:02:33 <h01ger> gaudenz, please add "birthday party"
18:02:38 <nattie> right.  i've been saying for the last few hours i'll do a very quick round table with last week's topics in order
18:02:47 <h01ger> probably "talks" in general
18:02:55 <nattie> ok, that's looking better already
18:03:09 <h01ger> "call for volunteers" ? (feedback) as topic?
18:03:15 <gaudenz> ok added team roundtable and birthday party
18:03:26 <nattie> how about cleaning?  just so we can have an #info on that
18:03:32 <nattie> we can do that as AOB, though
18:03:44 <rafw> nattie: sure.
18:03:49 <nattie> fabbo
18:03:52 * h01ger thinks the agenda is good for now, assuming nattie+gaudenz will take care of (possibly) more topic points
18:03:53 <gaudenz> cleaning and volunteers added too
18:03:54 <nattie> ok, let's get started
18:04:14 <nattie> #topic team roundtable - Finance and Sponsorship status
18:04:18 <gaudenz> ok please reload the agenda
18:04:33 <gaudenz> huhu hug
18:04:34 <nattie> gaudenz: many thanks :)
18:04:42 <rafw> regarding sponsorship there is no change since last week.
18:04:45 <zobel> moin
18:04:57 <h01ger> we have a new request from mikapfl
18:05:10 <bremner> that's bursaries
18:05:14 <h01ger> (for just adding him to debcamp as volunteer and dd with a workplan)
18:05:16 <hug> looks good. around 10k outstanding. we still have a surplus of around 30k
18:05:38 <nattie> #info around 10k outstanding. we still have a surplus of around 30k
18:05:39 <h01ger> neato
18:05:42 <nattie> thanks :)
18:05:44 <OdyX> neat indeed.
18:06:05 <nattie> #info Sponsorship has no change from last week
18:06:09 <gwolf> very nice :)
18:06:15 <nattie> i think we can move on
18:06:18 <gaudenz> #topic Team roundtable - registration
18:06:22 <XTaran> nattie, hug: 20:05:53 <h01ger> we have a new request from mikapfl
18:06:41 <nattie> that's for bursaries
18:06:45 <gaudenz> XTaran: 20:06 <   bremner> that's bursaries
18:06:46 <XTaran> Ah, sorry, ok
18:06:48 <hug> Xtaranbursariea
18:07:08 <nattie> any news from registration?  statistics?
18:07:13 <gaudenz> cate is not here, so nattie or harmoney can you report?
18:07:14 <h01ger> (and a detail we probably dont need to resolve here. just wanted to make sure relevant teams know about)
18:07:30 <gaudenz> this is the summary from cate:
18:07:33 * XTaran doesn't find bursaries on the agenda, but well.
18:07:34 <gaudenz> registration:
18:07:34 <gaudenz> - things going on.
18:07:34 <gaudenz> - taffit did the lottery for the rooms with bedding
18:07:34 <gaudenz> - shortly I'm ready to publish the room allocation. last weekend run is in ¬pentaread/room.full_list (but still few changes on attendees and dates)
18:07:37 <gaudenz> - [really it is only the room-allocation-1 (e.g. roommates). The room-allocation-2 will be done with FD during DebCamp (i.e. giving to a room code a physical room): some doubts about disabilities and female shower/WC (also considering campint people)]
18:08:01 <gaudenz> XTaran: reload
18:08:04 <rafw> We should communicate soon the food number to Le Camp.
18:08:05 <nattie> #info room allocation will be published shortly
18:08:19 <XTaran> gaudenz: Ah. :)
18:08:40 <gaudenz> rafw: what's the date?
18:08:52 <gaudenz> 6th august - 10 days is?
18:09:04 <rafw> gaudenz: I am checking
18:09:13 <nattie> 28 July, i think
18:09:25 * h01ger notes that we'll meet for real in 14 days (or less or more :)
18:09:28 <gaudenz> #action to announce debcamp food numbers to le camp by 28th july
18:09:41 <OdyX> I will make sure it's done, either by cate or myself using cate's numbers.
18:09:52 <nattie> no, sorry, let's make that this friday
18:10:03 <gaudenz> #action OdyX to announce food numbers to le camp
18:10:05 <nattie> as 27/28 July is a weekend
18:10:14 <gaudenz> I think registration is done, anything else?
18:10:15 <OdyX> sure, this friday.
18:10:24 <hug> OdyX: please consult with me before you send them.
18:10:27 <vorlon> is there any space left at DebCamp?  (Mail to debconf-team from Urs Blaser)
18:10:40 <OdyX> hug: will do.
18:10:45 <h01ger> comunal should have beds, no?
18:10:47 <h01ger> +m
18:10:48 <vorlon> Someone who has access to the relevant database bits will need to query his DebCamp work plan and share it with the bursaries team; but if there's no space we should just fail-fast
18:10:55 <XTaran> cate: ^
18:10:57 <gaudenz> vorlon: I will clarify with him, I'm not sure if he really meant debcamp
18:11:14 <gaudenz> #action gaudenz to clarify volunteering request from U. B.
18:11:15 <nattie> yeah, from the dates it looked more like debconf it self to me
18:11:24 <vorlon> ok, I hadn't checked the dates yet
18:11:41 <nattie> i think that's about it for registration
18:11:42 <vorlon> right - looks like it's just DebCamp, nevermind
18:11:48 <nattie> #topic Team roundtable - bursaries
18:11:57 <nattie> BURSAR!  anything to report?
18:11:58 <gwolf> vorlon: /me queries pentabarf for this information)
18:12:05 <vorlon> leaving this for gaudenz then, who has the inside scoop regarding volunteers :)
18:12:25 <nattie> vorlon: we've moved on
18:12:26 <gaudenz> I think volunteering request don't have to go through the whole bursaries team.
18:12:27 * h01ger msgs urs data to vorlon
18:12:32 <gaudenz> If you agree of course
18:12:33 <h01ger> (some, obviously)
18:12:56 <vorlon> gaudenz: agreed; I'd rather they didn't
18:12:59 <gaudenz> I think we rather need volunteers for setup and teardown. Not really for debcamp.
18:13:17 <hug> gaudenz: we still need to track the number of volunteers granted.
18:13:18 <vorlon> so other than the Urs issue above, I don't think there's nothing new in bursarieland
18:13:25 <vorlon> s/nothing/anything/
18:13:32 <gaudenz> #agreed volunteering request to be decided by localteam / registration / volunteer coordination
18:13:41 <vorlon> sponsorship approvals/rejects were all sent out a while ago
18:13:46 <nattie> ok.  ready for talks?
18:13:46 * gwolf agrees as long as we have the space for it
18:13:57 <gaudenz> #topic Team roundtable - talks
18:13:58 <gwolf> ...we are paying for that space anyway
18:13:58 <nattie> #topic Team roundtable - talks
18:14:02 <nattie> oops
18:14:08 <gaudenz> ;-)
18:14:11 <nattie> gaudenz: zwei doofe, ein gedanke ;)
18:14:16 <tiago> gaudenz, Are we done with Debian Day talks schedulde?
18:14:17 <h01ger> aehm, whats whith mikas request? thats new in bursaryland, no?
18:14:18 <hug> gwolf: no biggest cost is food :-)
18:14:23 <h01ger> (mikapfl)
18:14:35 <gwolf> hug: right. But that can be perfectly absorbed IMO if we are receiving them as volunteers
18:14:38 <nattie> h01ger: i think that's the kind of detail work that should be dealt with outside meeting time
18:14:38 <gwolf> as long as they fit
18:14:49 <gaudenz> tiago: I was waiting a bit if someone has a better idea for the packageing tutorial
18:14:50 <gwolf> But anyway, our topic is gone :)
18:15:32 <gaudenz> h01ger: we can come back to that after talks
18:15:38 <tiago> gaudenz, + bdale explanation about his freedombox talk
18:15:43 <nattie> gaudenz: we'll stick it on AOB
18:15:50 <h01ger> gaudenz, nattie: after the meeting is also fine
18:15:51 <tiago> anyway, i think we'll finish it before this weekend
18:16:04 <tiago> then we need to announce the schedule, what about a blog post? I can prepare it.
18:16:11 <gaudenz> tiago: yeah that too, but I for the whole team the important fact is that the debian birthday talks schedule is nearly ready.
18:16:38 <gaudenz> I'd also like to have a separate page on debconf13.debconf.org for the birthday event
18:16:45 <tiago> great, so the plan is to announce it maximum this weekend
18:16:45 <nattie> so, is it actually nearly ready?
18:16:54 <tiago> nattie, yes
18:17:06 <nattie> #info schedule for birthday event nearly ready
18:17:11 <gaudenz> #topic team roundtable - network
18:17:12 * h01ger is happy how this debianday+party has evolved. i hope i will also be happy stillon the 17th ;)
18:17:19 <XTaran> Ok.
18:17:29 <XTaran> Network is "ordered" at the ISP
18:17:48 <XTaran> Our contact person is on holiday this and next week but passed the details to his boss.
18:18:00 <hug> access points "ordered" too :-)
18:18:08 <XTaran> Our contact person will be back at work for DebCamp
18:18:18 <nattie> #info network and access points "ordered" from relevant sources
18:18:23 <XTaran> hug: Yeah, we'll get nine additional APs from CCC MZ
18:18:30 <h01ger> neato
18:18:33 <hug> nice :)
18:18:33 <gaudenz> XTaran: anything you need from the team?
18:18:57 <zobel> hug: CCC MZ worked out? great.
18:18:58 <XTaran> gaudenz: Not now AFAICS
18:19:03 <gaudenz> #topic team roundtable - video
18:19:07 <XTaran> zobel: Via CCC Basel :)
18:19:12 <zobel> great.
18:19:43 <XTaran> Oh, and I'll be away at OHM next week, too, but reachable via e-mail. I just won't be in Switzerland
18:19:47 <h01ger> videos will be released when they are ready. next? ;)
18:19:55 <gaudenz> what's the videoteam volunteer status, does it look good or do you need more people?
18:19:58 <nattie> do we have all the stuff?
18:20:10 * h01ger checks volunteer numbers
18:20:11 <gaudenz> nattie: I think so.
18:20:32 <gaudenz> #info video material should be settled, audio looks good, the rest comes from paris
18:20:39 <nattie> fabbo
18:20:47 <nattie> #topic Team roundtable - bar
18:20:49 <h01ger> we could use more people on the videoteam
18:21:01 <nattie> h01ger: they'll come.  people love pointing cameras
18:21:07 <h01ger> #info: we could use more people on the videoteam - volunteer and make the debian world happy with shiny videos
18:21:14 <nattie> bar time
18:21:26 <gaudenz> heiserhorn: ?
18:21:42 <gaudenz> I think nobody from the bar team is around. so next topic
18:22:02 <h01ger> .oO( they are all drinking^wpracticing )
18:22:15 <h01ger> next?
18:22:18 <nattie> #topic Team roundtable - cleaning
18:22:26 <h01ger> #info: no update from bar team, they were absent
18:22:29 <nattie> rafw: your chance to shine ;)
18:22:33 * zobel has one topic for AOB.
18:22:39 <h01ger> aint all shiny here or any news/updates?
18:22:40 <nattie> zobel: save it for AOB please :)
18:22:53 <rafw> yep, so I have asked for the contract and th owner is on holiday. I will make this work next week.
18:23:10 <nattie> #info cleaning contract to be sorted out next week
18:23:21 <nattie> woo.  ok, here comes the big one
18:23:25 <gaudenz> rafw: could you clarify if the 3 persons are enough to clean everything each day or not?
18:24:29 <rafw> gaudenz: If not we will divide Le Camp in two area. Clean half of Le camp on each day. It sounds reasonable within budget constraints.
18:25:00 <rafw> We have only 9 hours per day (3 person time 3 hours).
18:25:01 <gaudenz> rafw: If you have to resort to that, please also ask how much more it will cost to do it on every day.
18:25:02 * h01ger thinks we will have a clean enough debconf
18:25:17 * rafw too
18:25:30 <h01ger> so next?
18:25:35 <nattie> #topic day trip
18:25:38 <OdyX> we can still give a hand where needed.
18:25:41 * gaudenz is not so sure how much cleaning one needs if 10 person share a bathroom
18:25:42 <nattie> right.  have at it, boys.
18:26:06 * h01ger cleans natties poky nose
18:26:09 <h01ger> daytrip?
18:26:29 <gaudenz> yes current topic is daytrip, we trust rafw to do the right thing with cleaning
18:26:42 <OdyX> s/ to do.*$//
18:27:06 * nattie pokes her nose at the topic
18:27:14 <OdyX> given the concerns raised, I have just worked on an alternative plan: https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/User:OdyX/DayTrip
18:27:21 * h01ger looks
18:27:22 <rafw> yes, so there are voice against the proposal to combine Day Trip with conference dinner on boat.
18:27:25 <OdyX> this has more time for coaches boarding-unboarding (blue cells)
18:27:30 <vorlon> is moray_ here?
18:27:35 <rafw> even if that fit in the budget.
18:27:42 <OdyX> he said he wouldn't be.
18:27:53 <OdyX> the plan also has more time at Soliat/Creux-du-Van.
18:28:15 * h01ger still sees 28k in OdyXs plan
18:28:18 <OdyX> I went with the provisional idea to come back in batches to Le Camp (four coaches'waves)
18:28:22 <gwolf> I am still halfway through the thread... But I find OdyX's mail quite sensible (pointing out the proposed idea is within the approved budget)
18:28:27 <OdyX> h01ger: budget hasn't been updated, I had 20 minutes.
18:28:31 <h01ger> ah
18:28:42 <h01ger> OdyX, well, that was the problem with the proposed plan(s)
18:28:55 <OdyX> grmbl.
18:29:01 <OdyX> You can't change "just the budget"
18:29:02 <rafw> the budget for the boat is  CHf 14k with dinner.
18:29:05 * gaudenz agrees that the boat is expensive, but I think it's also a very nice conference dinner, and please note that this is conf dinner plus daytrip not only daytrip.
18:29:07 <h01ger> OdyX, thanks for trying / working on it!
18:29:26 <OdyX> what this also has is an easier hike, with half of the way in the coaches to asphalt mine.
18:29:45 <OdyX> so the coaches would stop half-way and unload hikers for a 2h quasi-flat walk on top of the mountains.
18:29:56 <h01ger> if we had 20k CHF in the budget, why exactly spend more now? just because a boat is more fancy is not enough
18:30:09 <gaudenz> h01ger: you can just subtract 14k from the overall budget to get an idea.
18:30:26 <rafw> h01ger: We had 28k for Day Trip and Conference dinner.
18:30:39 <h01ger> but OdyX said 20k, no?
18:30:43 <gaudenz> rafw: what do we use the afternoon activities cost for?
18:30:50 <h01ger> (me hasnt checked himself TBH)
18:31:14 * h01ger thinks we cannot resolves this daytrip planning in the meeting anyway and wonders how much time we have (in days) - i also think we shall discuss ten more minutes or so...
18:31:15 <rafw> gaudenz: it was for visit in the afternoon, guided tour of city or CSEM visit.
18:31:18 <OdyX> I think the boat-trip-conference-dinner would be awesome
18:31:18 <OdyX> and we can afford it that day, because we win a little on coaches and profit from the trip back to the venue.
18:31:50 <rafw> Yes, the thing is we have the money. But now we have to decided if we want to do it.
18:32:14 <OdyX> fwiw, coaches are roughly 20 CHF/person for a day of transportation, roughly whereever we go, if the coaches are full.
18:32:17 <gaudenz> maybe it's better to gather opinions about the cost / nice conf-dinner tradeoff instead of discussing details
18:32:36 <gaudenz> It's basically a question of how much a nice dinner is worth.
18:32:39 <gaudenz> to us
18:32:49 <OdyX> What I'd like to know first is whether the rest of the day is okay as-is.
18:33:07 <gwolf> we could always do without a conference dinner. But at least IMO, where we have skipped it, I feel we missed it
18:33:16 <h01ger> gaudenz, not sure that is all - or if "we like" is a good enough criteria
18:33:21 <OdyX> 4-5 activities in the morning, all-together apéro + lunch on top of the gorgeous natural place of the region, then city visit.
18:33:28 <harmoney> The conference dinner can also just be a bigger, more celebratory dinner, *at* venue.
18:33:31 <hug> I think we should go ahead with daytrip as is. without conference dinner.
18:33:40 <gaudenz> harmoney: sure
18:33:47 <h01ger> again: /me thinks we cannot resolves this daytrip planning in the meeting anyway and wonders how much time we have (in days)
18:33:53 <h01ger> til when do we have to decide?
18:33:55 <gaudenz> OdyX: I think the rest of the daytrip is ok,
18:33:56 <harmoney> It doesn't have to be included in the daytrip, and might make it easier if we separate it.
18:33:57 <tiago> is it possible to have a nice conf-dinner without the boat? I mean, is there any other cheap place? Le camp?
18:34:00 <hug> the plan is perfectly fine within budget. sono need to delay it.
18:34:01 <gwolf> I'd like to dinner-on-the-boat to happen, as it *is* a very memorable moment for DebConf, and if part of the costs are "absorbed" by having the buses already rented for the day, it seems right
18:34:08 <h01ger> can we postpone this 5 more days? does that help? (to work out better plans..)
18:34:10 <OdyX> h01ger: sooner is better.
18:34:15 <h01ger> OdyX, sure, but
18:34:19 <vorlon> do we have clarity that we aren't going to be penalized for not eating at the venue?
18:34:35 <vorlon> last I knew, that was an open question whether they would be ok with this or how much penalty they might charge us
18:34:38 <rafw> h01ger: sooner the better.
18:34:38 <OdyX> h01ger: no 5+ days is not okay, I have to at least pre-book the coaches and rafw all the activities.
18:34:41 <h01ger> rafw, when do we need to finalize those day trip deals
18:34:44 <h01ger> OdyX, when?
18:34:52 <OdyX> h01ger: soon.
18:34:55 <h01ger> sooner is always better. thats no news.
18:35:00 <gwolf> Now... I cannot really understand - Some people argue it fits well within the budget. Some say it's 40% over. And i'm lost there :-|
18:35:01 <h01ger> OdyX, ok, so in a week
18:35:04 <h01ger> thats "soon"
18:35:08 <harmoney> h01ger: Is there a good reason to postpone the decision? It's not going to make discussion any easier.
18:35:17 <hug> h01ger if we delay it we drop theboat
18:35:19 <h01ger> harmoney, to work out better plans
18:35:21 <OdyX> h01ger: MEH. We won't have coaches by then, it's a risk.
18:35:24 <hug> no reason to delay it.
18:35:27 <gaudenz> vorlon: The know that one possiblity is that we won't eat at the venue and they did not say that we would have to pay anything.
18:35:34 <gaudenz> s/The/They/
18:35:48 <h01ger> what gwolf said: is there 20k or 28k for it in the budget? (trip+dinner)
18:35:52 <vorlon> gwolf: it seems that the combined cost for daytrip + dinner on boat fits within the combined budget for daytrip + conference dinner, though if you break it down by budget line item AIUI it doesn't fit
18:36:01 * h01ger worked all day at had no time to check myself
18:36:10 <OdyX> I'd rather spend 2 hours now to go ahead than postpone.
18:36:11 <harmoney> One Daytrip event, people paid their own transport costs across the country we were visiting.
18:36:11 <h01ger> vorlon, ?
18:36:23 <vorlon> h01ger: I don't know, sorry, I'm just repeating
18:36:26 <rafw> h01ger: It is on the wiki we have 28k Day trip & Conference dinner all together.
18:36:27 <hug> 27800 is in the budget
18:36:36 <h01ger> vorlon, i dont understand what you repeated. do you?
18:36:36 <gwolf> vorlon: right. And if they are combined on a same-day activty, I'm perfectly fine with one item "lending" money to the other.
18:36:37 <harmoney> Is there any way to make the "morning" activities something that people could opt-in, and just subsidize for them, and for those who don't want, ship them off to the boat for the full conference experience?
18:36:44 <hug> as approved.
18:36:45 <OdyX> the budget is okay as-is, that was argued on list. we have the money to go with the full plan.
18:36:46 <h01ger> rafw, hug: thanks
18:37:19 <vorlon> h01ger: yes - either the daytrip cost exceeds the budget for the daytrip, or the dinner cost exceeds the budget for the dinner, but the costs for daytrip + dinner fit in the budget for daytrip+dinner.
18:37:20 <OdyX> harmoney: ah yeah, that's missing from the new plan: a late coach at 12:00 to join the crowd on top of the mountain, entirely skipping activities.
18:37:25 <gaudenz> harmoney: yes that's planned, if it's only a few, they can come by public transport to neuchatel, otherwise we will organize something.
18:37:28 <rafw> Yeah, we have the money. Now we need to make a clever desision about the Conference dinner on the boat. I think that is the main point.
18:37:36 <vorlon> OdyX: 12:00 isn't very late
18:37:41 <gwolf> The boat plan looks like something *really* neat that will stay in the attendees' memories. And that's what a conference dinner is all about.
18:37:49 * h01ger is still not convinced spending 28k CHF for this is a good idea, but if the DPL approved this plan and you all like it, i will happily enjoy our sponsors money
18:37:54 <OdyX> vorlon: late_r_ coaches then.
18:38:03 <nattie> gwolf: we know all about memorable conference dinners, don't we?
18:38:03 <harmoney> That seems pretty reasonable as a compromise. It should reduce the overall daytrip costs, yes? And address Moray's concerns?
18:38:07 <vorlon> I assume that people who prefer to stay at the venue instead of participating in the day trip will want to join just for dinner
18:38:16 <gwolf> nattie: You don't know the money it took to make it rain indoors.
18:38:17 <h01ger> vorlon, definitly
18:38:24 <nattie> gwolf: oh, trust me, i can imagine
18:38:34 <harmoney> That was so awesome. :D
18:38:37 <vorlon> OdyX: ^^ this means that having the last outbound coach at 12:00 is way too early
18:38:47 <h01ger> please lets concentrate on dc13 and close in 21m
18:38:52 <vorlon> and doesn't meet the needs of people wanting to join just for dinner
18:38:53 <tiago> i'm with h01ger on this
18:39:13 <gaudenz> vorlon: see above, or what does not meat their needs?
18:39:16 <vorlon> harmoney: what cost reduction are you talking about?
18:39:29 <OdyX> vorlon: aye. dinner is lunch in swiss-french, I always mix. There are two opportunities for additional coaches: 12:00 to join Creux-du-Van for lunch, 17h00 to join Neuchâtel for dinner.
18:39:30 <vorlon> gaudenz: ah, using public transport to neuchatel?  ok.
18:39:35 * h01ger also emphasises what vorlon said: we need to take care of making it possible for non day trippers to join dinner
18:39:40 <harmoney> vorlon: Paying full for morning activities.
18:39:56 <h01ger> and /me also likes harmoneys cost reduction ideas
18:40:01 <gaudenz> h01ger: as already said, and already said on list and repeated I think that's solved.
18:40:03 <vorlon> harmoney: well, many of the daytrip costs are stepwise (a bus costs X no matter how many people are on it)
18:40:10 <rafw> h01ger vorlon  that is a side issue we can manage at a later stage (public transport, minibus or coach).
18:40:13 <harmoney> vorlon: I'm suggesting to have people who want to go on th emorning activities pay for part of them.
18:40:18 <h01ger> rafw, ack, cool
18:40:25 <vorlon> rafw: well, we want to make sure that it's factored into the overall budget
18:40:31 <nattie> should i bring up the cern thing, while i'm at it?
18:40:34 <harmoney> vorlon: Sure. And if you know it's about 20CHF per person, ask for, I don't know, 10CHF or some such.
18:40:40 <gaudenz> If people would have to pay for the daytrip so we can have the boat I prefer to skip the boat.
18:40:45 <OdyX> getting participants participate for the tiny part of the cost is just getting small money IMHO.
18:40:52 <rafw> vorlon: public transport is.
18:41:01 <vorlon> rafw: ok, thanks for confirming
18:41:04 <OdyX> nattie: later point
18:41:08 <h01ger> nattie, i think we should leave this CERN thing out and treat it as an "private activity" (where organizers are involved)
18:41:21 * gwolf agrees with h01ger re: CERN
18:41:24 <h01ger> people can opt out and do there thing. enjoy CERN!
18:41:29 <nattie> fair enough!
18:41:43 <rafw> we don't have realy the choice here anyway.
18:41:46 <OdyX> I don't feel it's meaningful to ask participants for 12.50 CHF to enter the museum while it costs 25 to bring them there.
18:42:04 <OdyX> can we focus on a decision on daytrip+conference ?
18:42:09 <h01ger> OdyX, getting 200x20HF is not so small money
18:42:12 <vorlon> why is it not meaningful?
18:42:17 <h01ger> its another flight to dc14
18:42:32 <gaudenz> ok I'm fine with just asking ~10 CHF from everyone for the daytrip. But I also don't see much benefit of this if we on the other hand have a surplus of 30k
18:42:33 <OdyX> _one_ flight.
18:42:45 <h01ger> even, the more realistic 100*10 CHF
18:42:52 <h01ger> OdyX, yes. could be your flight ;-)
18:42:58 <nattie> it also creates administrative hassle
18:43:03 <OdyX> it's not meaningful enough for the administriative burden it creates imho.
18:43:19 <hug> I'd prefer not to ask for money
18:43:25 <gaudenz> can we please leave out the ad personam comments
18:43:28 * gwolf paints his bike red.
18:43:30 <vorlon> gaudenz: because it puts to rest the question of whether this is a worthwhile use of Debian money
18:43:33 * h01ger thinks if someone (harmoney) wants to do it, we should ask for voluntar contributions
18:43:53 <h01ger> s/harmoney/eg harmoney/
18:44:01 <vorlon> -1 on voluntary contributions
18:44:06 <OdyX> and I don't want to enter the money game where some can easily enjoy activities and others have to struggle money-wise for these.
18:44:11 <hug> or we'd split attendees between those who can and those who can't afford it.
18:44:28 <h01ger> hug, thats why i said "voluntary contributions"
18:44:33 <nattie> i think any voluntary contributions should actually be voluntary, and i thought that's what the bar tip jar was for
18:44:39 * h01ger sees we dont make any progress here...
18:44:42 <OdyX> h01ger: make that a "DebConf pot" at FD, done.
18:45:08 <h01ger> next topic?
18:45:13 * gwolf notes there is pot money in DebConf now. Whee!
18:45:15 <gaudenz> Do we all agree that the morning and afternoon programm are fine?
18:45:16 <vorlon> so then we're back to the full cost from DebConf funds for the daytrip, with maybe a few donations
18:45:18 <nattie> are we completely done with the day trip?
18:45:19 <h01ger> gwolf, lol
18:45:25 <OdyX> again, the budget for DayTrip (without ConferenceDinner) is enough for a nice DayTrip for everyone, can we agree to go ahead with that money for DayTrip?
18:45:28 <gaudenz> nattie: no
18:45:37 <gaudenz> I'd like us to at least agree on the daytrip part
18:45:42 <nattie> gaudenz: i didn't quite think so
18:45:45 <hug> program is fine.rafw go ahead within budget :)
18:45:49 <OdyX> and I think we need to minute-ize decisions.
18:45:52 <vorlon> OdyX: the dinner can be decided later?  or you just want to separate the topics now?
18:46:10 <nattie> vorlon: you've foiled my plan of running off to Monaco with all the money, damn your eyes
18:46:11 <gaudenz> vorlon: I think we can separate the decisions
18:46:14 <h01ger> vorlon, i dont really get why you disklie voluntary contributions then.. asking for mandatory contributions either cmplicates it over the max or hurts the community feeling
18:46:17 <gwolf> I *think* the topics are quite mixed together if we go with the original proposal
18:46:21 <gaudenz> So that at least the morning part can be finalized
18:46:26 <vorlon> +1 for the daytrip plan itself, given that it's within budget
18:46:27 <OdyX> vorlon: I want a decision on daytrip-without-conferencedinner, and a separate decision on conferencedinner-on-the-boat (or other plan)
18:46:48 <harmoney> The contribution idea worked perfectly well for DC7.
18:47:04 * h01ger thinks we should move on and if there is more to say now, move this to the list. the urgency for decision and talk is gone, we decided about the daytrip. so... next please
18:47:06 <harmoney> People paid to go to the Isle of Bute, and did what they wanted while they were out there.
18:47:19 <h01ger> s/talk/talking/
18:47:28 <harmoney> The team as a whole was thanked repeatedly for helping to arrnage it, and far more people jumped at the daytrip than I thought would.
18:47:30 <OdyX> h01ger: then please someone write down a nice #agreed
18:47:31 <gaudenz> h01ger: did we decide about the daytrip, nattie said different
18:47:31 <rafw> i need a decision soon on the boat and to organise everything as well.
18:47:36 <vorlon> h01ger: because I personally think the idea that a daytrip is something Debian must provide for attendees has gotten out of hand
18:47:45 <hug> OdyX: +1 for daytrip and +1 for any choice of conf dinner you make :)
18:47:52 <h01ger> vorlon, thats why i think 28k is "not the best idea"
18:48:14 <OdyX> 28k was _decided_ already, that's not today's question, IMVHO
18:48:15 <gaudenz> #agreed the daytrip morning and afternoon programm are fine
18:48:21 <h01ger> vorlon, but asking for mandatory 20 CHF is too much too IMO. and everything else is too little money to be meaningful
18:48:32 <vorlon> h01ger: yes.  But if it's not a good idea to do it with Debian's money, I don't think it's a good idea to do it with Debian's money minus voluntary donations either
18:48:33 <gaudenz> #save
18:49:18 * h01ger notes we are going overtime and thinks we should move the rest to the list (as said already)
18:49:19 <OdyX> we just agreed to spend the 17.4kCHF on DayTrip, not 28k.
18:49:32 <rafw> I need a clear mandate from you  guys. Otherwise that gonna be a nightmare.
18:49:32 <nattie> right, i think we're all vehemently agreeing that we should move on
18:49:34 <nattie> we are moving on
18:49:36 <gaudenz> h01ger: what's your idea how we should decide the conference dinner question?
18:49:39 <h01ger> dont we also agree to do the conf dinner?
18:49:40 <rafw> nope
18:49:41 <OdyX> now the question is whether we spend 10.4kCHF on a conferencedinner on a boat.
18:49:48 <h01ger> gaudenz, i think we agree we want a conf dinner
18:49:53 <h01ger> and we agreed on the budget too
18:49:57 <h01ger> and we have a plan for this
18:50:03 <h01ger> so, i think we agree on this
18:50:24 <rafw> Do you want a conference dinner on the boat or at Le camp on different evening ?
18:50:25 <h01ger> at least 15m ago before we brought up the topic of monetary contributions...
18:50:25 <OdyX> I don't think we do, at least it wasn't expressed.
18:50:31 <gaudenz> ok ? #agreed rafw and OdyX decide on the conf dinner within the budget and considering the team opinions
18:50:40 <rafw> nope
18:50:45 <rafw> it not ok
18:50:51 <h01ger> rafw, you disagree with conf dinner?
18:50:57 <hug> gaudenz: +1
18:51:02 <OdyX> no. I want a direction in which we go with the support of the team.
18:51:08 <rafw> We need a team decision.
18:51:12 <h01ger> ah
18:51:21 <OdyX> going to flames to boat just because budget allows but everyone disagrees is not cool.
18:51:32 <h01ger> rafw, then please dont say "nope" as this sounds like you disagree
18:51:43 <gaudenz> rafw, OdyX so you propose we vote, or any other idea?
18:51:48 <rafw> Yes, this was contreversial so we don't want to hire a boat just because we decided so.
18:51:51 * h01ger thinks we are lost in an irc loop
18:51:57 <h01ger> who disagrees with having a conf dinner?
18:52:02 <gwolf> rafw: I agree with you
18:52:07 <gwolf> h01ger: it seems nobody
18:52:10 <nattie> folks, can we please settle the question of dinner outside the meeting?
18:52:19 <XTaran> +1 for the dinner on a boat
18:52:20 <gwolf> h01ger: but we have not unambiguously told OdyX+rafw a green light
18:52:25 <gaudenz> nattie: I don't think that's a good idea
18:52:35 <gwolf> h01ger: they don't want later to be held responsible for doing "as they think best"
18:52:38 <vorlon> gaudenz: does "within the budget" mean "within the budget set for the conference dinner", or does it mean "borrowing from the daytrip budget"?
18:52:45 <nattie> gaudenz: ok, fine.
18:52:50 <OdyX> gaudenz: my point is that the core question is not the budget one, we have that money ready for it, but I don't want to be painted as the guy burning DebConf money without anyone's consent.
18:52:51 <h01ger> gwolf, so whats holding us up?
18:53:02 <gaudenz> vorlon: I would say the latter, but we can refine my proposal
18:53:06 <gwolf> h01ger: saying "yes, please do the trip+boat as you suggested"
18:53:15 <gwolf> h01ger: because otherwise there is no clear mandate
18:53:19 <h01ger> so who is disagreeing about what?
18:53:28 <gaudenz> OdyX: I agree, but I don't see a consensus emerging, so we can either delegate or vote IMHO
18:53:29 <vorlon> gaudenz: so, I am not in favor of this
18:53:52 <h01ger> vorlon, whyß
18:53:53 <h01ger> ?
18:54:17 <vorlon> at least, not without further discussion / consideration
18:54:26 <XTaran> vorlon: Why?
18:54:46 <OdyX> as I wrote: I think it would be super-nice to offer that to DebConf13 attendees, but only if the team is happy with that gift. We can perfectly combine a super-meal for DebianDay in LeCamp (+dishwashing) and use less money if that makes the team happier to back up the delegates' work.
18:54:59 <h01ger> OdyX, how much less?
18:55:08 <vorlon> XTaran: because I don't believe in relaxing ;-)
18:55:19 <XTaran> vorlon: O.o
18:55:33 <OdyX> h01ger: roughly 4-5 k less I'd say.
18:55:42 <XTaran> vorlon: Your smiley suggests that's not the real answer.
18:55:42 <h01ger> vorlon, so you are trolling? anybody else disagreeing?
18:55:45 <vorlon> it's incompatible with my constitution
18:55:54 <vorlon> h01ger: I'm not trolling
18:55:55 <gwolf> OdyX: I think a less-than-super-meal on the boat would be more memorable than a super-meal in the usual place
18:55:56 <vorlon> goddamnit
18:56:11 <h01ger> vorlon, sorry
18:56:14 <XTaran> gwolf: +1
18:56:23 <hug> we shouldn't micro-manage by irc-meeting. its's just a few days until debconf/debcamp and we should allow people to decide within boundaries (e.g. budget)
18:56:30 <OdyX> gwolf: I do agree. But I want to organize that with support, not fear.
18:56:33 <h01ger> vorlon, "<XTaran> vorlon: Your smiley suggests that's not the real answer." was something i noted to late/little
18:56:48 <h01ger> +o
18:56:51 <vorlon> hug: decide within boundaries means "don't take $5k from one line item to pay for another"
18:57:14 <gwolf> vorlon: ...IMO the items can be combined together
18:57:17 <gaudenz> can we just do a poll for "conf dinner at le camp with a good meal" vs. "conf dinner on the boat" and then delegate to rafw and OdyX ?
18:57:18 <gwolf> they fit quite well together
18:57:28 <gwolf> Both are the "social, outside" part of DebConf
18:57:32 <vorlon> h01ger: I'm being self-deprecating, but I'm not trolling.  I don't want Debian spending money for me to have a boat ride
18:57:33 <XTaran> vorlon: And what exactly is incompatible with your "constitution"?
18:57:34 <gwolf> and I'm more than happy to mix them together.
18:57:44 <hug> vorlon: that seems fine if combined... boat is also transfer back for daytrip
18:57:45 <vorlon> XTaran: relaxation
18:57:51 <julien> I have an idea . I'm an attendee . I'll take the train on sunday afternoon . Why not have a meal with all the attendees on sunday midday?
18:58:05 <OdyX> vorlon: also, as I argued, it's not (yet) Debian money, it's money that the DebConf(13) sponsorship team went to seek _for_DebConf13_.
18:58:06 <nattie> vorlon, XTaran: if you're going to argue, can you please do so in /query?
18:58:07 <XTaran> vorlon: That's just insane IMHO
18:58:24 <vorlon> nattie: no
18:58:25 <h01ger> vorlon, i'm with you on this, basically. but i got convinced that such a budget was approved and that this discussion is basically the 200th reiteration of "switzerland is reeeeally expensive"
18:58:34 <vorlon> the purpose of this meeting is to make essential decisions for the upcoming conferenec
18:58:47 <vorlon> I'm not going to stop talking because you want to speed the meeting along
18:58:48 <h01ger> (as i think that combining these two sub budgets is indeed ok here)
18:59:03 <XTaran> vorlon: For what else than relaxation, social contacts and some fun is a daytrip good then?
18:59:23 <XTaran> vorlon: It's the holiday in our more worky DebConf.
18:59:25 <vorlon> XTaran: you are probably asking the wrong person, as I have opted out of the last 4 day trips
18:59:32 <OdyX> fwiw20:06 < nattie> #info around 10k outstanding. we still have a surplus of around 30k
18:59:35 <h01ger> vorlon, we also have the usual procedure to close a meeting after 90min and just keeping up a topic by talking is inappropriate. we have chairs to deal with such behaviour ;)
18:59:59 <XTaran> vorlon: Oh, ok. But then it should be fine for you if we ignore your opinion on the daytrip, too?
19:00:02 <h01ger> so i'm fine with discussing 10 more minutes how to proceed
19:00:12 <gaudenz> Can we please focus on finding a good process to solve this issue than on argueing for one or the other option?
19:00:19 <gaudenz> please
19:00:19 * h01ger nods gaudenz
19:00:26 <vorlon> XTaran: no, of course not.  How DebConf money is spent is a matter for the whole team, not just for those in favor of spending it on day trips.
19:00:29 <gaudenz> I made serveral proposals
19:00:42 <h01ger> gaudenz, can you please repeat them shortly?
19:01:19 * gwolf thinks that when consensus cannot be reached, a vote (even with underrepresentation, as some people are not in the meeting) is in place
19:01:21 <gaudenz> 1) just delegate to rafw and OdyX 2) vote now 3) do a poll on list and then delegate to rafw and OdyX
19:01:24 <tiago> i couldn't follow the proposals, they are lost in the noise
19:01:29 <gwolf> (after all, consensus will also not reach those that are not here)
19:01:37 * h01ger is in favor of 3)
19:01:45 * XTaran thinks we should do 2)
19:01:47 <gwolf> gaudenz: rafw and OdyX don't want to be blindly delegated
19:01:50 <gaudenz> 1) was turned down by rafw and OdyX so is not really an option
19:01:51 <gwolf> I think we should do 2)
19:01:59 <OdyX> I'm for 2) and strongly against 1).
19:02:02 <gwolf> So, do we voe on the vote?
19:02:02 <tiago> gaudenz, thanks for summarizing, i go for 3)
19:02:05 <gwolf> vote on the vote?
19:02:12 <gaudenz> I'm fine with 3) or 2) in that order
19:02:13 <vorlon> I'm happy with either 2 or 3
19:02:19 <XTaran> gwolf: Already doing that. :)
19:02:30 <gwolf> hah,  and we will end up with a tie between 2 and 3
19:02:34 <gwolf> how nice...
19:02:35 <gaudenz> OdyX, rafw what do you prefer?
19:02:42 <XTaran> gwolf: Indeed.
19:02:49 <harmoney> default to 3
19:03:01 <harmoney> And close the poll within 48 hours.
19:03:21 <harmoney> And make it clear that with, or without, vote, a decision will be made and the matter will close.
19:03:24 * h01ger is reminded what a "difficult" decission process we have
19:03:25 <OdyX> 36h and be my guest.
19:03:26 <tiago> ye, 48h a sounds poll good
19:03:35 <tiago> oops
19:03:38 <tiago> you got it
19:03:59 <h01ger> so untie at 3 and next topic?
19:04:00 <gaudenz> ok? #agreed we do a poll on the daytrip question on list for 36h and then rafw and OdyX decide
19:04:00 <OdyX> whatever.I'd rather do a roundtable between meeting people already to see where the wind is blowing.
19:04:21 <gaudenz> #agreed we do a poll on the daytrip question on list for 36h and then rafw and OdyX decide
19:04:26 <gaudenz> #save
19:04:27 <harmoney> Who is setting up the poll?
19:04:31 * gwolf considers it'd be better if it was not 48 and not 36, but 42 hours.
19:04:37 <nattie> we can sort that at the end of the meeting
19:04:40 <OdyX> and independent party, please.
19:04:41 <nattie> #topic badges
19:04:43 <h01ger> no
19:04:44 <h01ger> no
19:04:45 <h01ger> no
19:04:48 <h01ger> or ok
19:04:52 <OdyX> what!?
19:04:54 <h01ger> but really after the meeting
19:04:59 <h01ger> decide who sets up the poll
19:05:07 <h01ger> we should really do this now
19:05:12 <h01ger> its 2 more min
19:05:16 <h01ger> any volunteer?
19:05:21 <OdyX> let's volunteer…
19:05:23 <OdyX> nattie
19:05:24 <OdyX> ?
19:05:29 <nattie> gwolf: you're not coming - can you set up the poll?
19:05:34 * h01ger volunteers OdyX ;-p
19:05:45 <gaudenz> can we please solve technical questions after the meeting.
19:05:50 <OdyX> badges
19:05:57 <gaudenz> topic is badges now!!
19:06:11 <gwolf> nattie: ok, /me sets the poll
19:06:18 <gwolf> #info gwolf sets the poll.
19:06:18 <nattie> gwolf: thanks :)
19:06:19 <OdyX> lanyards: I'm happy with Ubuntu+Intel+neutral cords
19:06:28 <XTaran> I consider "who" a non-technical but social question
19:06:31 <nattie> people can pick?
19:06:34 <XTaran> gwolf: Thanks
19:06:45 <tiago> OdyX, so people choose at frontdesk? Sounds good
19:06:54 <OdyX> tiago: I think it can work yes.
19:06:57 * gwolf still prefers the lanyard-less style. But not that I will fight about it
19:07:02 <OdyX> b) badge holders; holger ?
19:07:12 * h01ger watches "Ursus Wehrli Tidying up art.webm" and paints it blue
19:07:23 <tiago> c) fancy debian badges, hug ?
19:07:34 <OdyX> gwolf: that's open in b), what cate proposed as badge holders had a no-lanyard option.
19:07:37 <gaudenz> #agreed we will have Ubuntu and Intel lanyards and neutral cords for people to choose
19:07:44 <tiago> wow
19:07:48 <tiago> agreed?
19:07:55 * h01ger disagrees, actually
19:08:01 * harmoney agrees.
19:08:14 <harmoney> People can choose their own way to hold their badge.
19:08:17 <gaudenz> tiago, h01ger so sorry, what do you want then?
19:08:20 <XTaran> Do they itch?
19:08:25 <h01ger> intel is not even a sponsor
19:08:26 <harmoney> I'm wearing one now. No, they do not.
19:08:29 <OdyX> h01ger: can you explain your badge-holders' option and how it'd work out? (As DC<=10 isn't clear for me)
19:08:31 <tiago> gaudenz, i want to hear other people
19:08:36 <h01ger> and i why polute more ads in our invironment?
19:08:38 <XTaran> harmoney: Thx
19:08:49 <gaudenz> people can you please stay on topic and say sensible things, keep the fun for later
19:08:57 <h01ger> OdyX, search for pics
19:08:58 * OdyX proposes that Ubuntu puts lanyards in the attendee bag as attendee gifts. Done.
19:09:03 * h01ger is really tired
19:09:09 <tiago> OdyX, no
19:09:13 <h01ger> as i said too often already.
19:09:34 <gwolf> I prefer also the least-advertisement-as-possible way
19:09:45 <tiago> I propose all branded lanyards stay on frontdesk for people who want to pick them
19:09:46 <h01ger> but really, _we_ as team shouldnt put ubuntu nor intel lanyards on the table.
19:09:52 <h01ger> if someone does that, bah, but fine
19:09:53 <OdyX> tiago: that's a possibility for them already, mind you.
19:09:54 <gwolf> OdyX: "older" lanyards were printed on paper, plastified, and held to the shirts by a safety pin
19:10:06 <vorlon> h01ger: so, what about putting them in the bags?
19:10:13 <vorlon> those who want to use them can have them
19:10:19 <gwolf> vorlon: right
19:10:21 <nattie> gwolf: s/lanyards/badges/
19:10:26 <harmoney> I have no qualms about offering lanyards to people who want them.
19:10:26 <gwolf> nattie: thx
19:10:29 <vorlon> if we do that, does Debian still need to spend its own money ordering some?
19:10:29 <gaudenz> ok so do we agree on badges with safety pins then?
19:10:29 <tiago> OdyX, but if you one in their bag you're making $sponsor promotion default
19:10:30 <nattie> no worries
19:10:41 <harmoney> If you want to make it my problem to hand people lanyards, I will happily keep a stash on me and will provide them to anyone who wants one.
19:10:43 <gaudenz> then we don't need any lanyards at all
19:10:44 <h01ger> vorlon, from sponsors, yes, sure
19:10:55 <OdyX> tiago: we offer to all bronze+ to put "things" in the attendee bags.
19:10:56 <gwolf> tiago: they are sponsors, I won't stop them from putting a freebie in the bag
19:11:07 <harmoney> tiago: It's called swag. Conferences have them all the time.
19:11:09 * h01ger never offered badges with safety pins btw
19:11:18 <tiago> harmoney, i know that, thanks
19:11:21 <vorlon> h01ger: right - perhaps it wasn't noticed that Intel wasn't sponsoring this year (harmoney?)
19:11:30 <tiago> and i dont like that for debian
19:11:33 <nattie> i don't like safety pin badges, but that's my personal opinion
19:11:34 <harmoney> I didn't notice Intel wasn't sponsoring this year, no.
19:11:48 <tiago> debconf is not generic crap conferences for corporate brands
19:11:53 <harmoney> tiago: That's unfortunate. DebConf has sponsors. Sponsors provide swag for conferences, and have historically provided DebConf swag.
19:12:03 <gaudenz> can we delegate the badge question to someone (OdyX?) It really looks like a bikeshed to me
19:12:11 <gwolf> harmoney: I think DebConf people care much less about swag, and some are outright hostile to it
19:12:21 <OdyX> tiago: maybe you should ask 400 sponsors first before saying things like that.
19:12:36 <harmoney> It sounds to me like 2 people upset with the idea of corporations somehow being involved with DebConf, and wanting to make an issue that they might send stuff with their logos on them.
19:12:46 <OdyX> tiago: our website is full of "corporate brands" that pay good money for _us_.
19:12:47 <vorlon> the bags will have logos on them
19:12:48 <gaudenz> tiago: I think the sponsorship team has decided otherwise and we can't change that anymore.
19:12:56 <h01ger> vorlon, minor nitpicking: ubuntu is not a sponsor... ubuntus sponsor is a dc13 sponsor
19:12:56 <harmoney> Which, I understand their concerns (no, seriously, I do), but I don't think this is as much of an issue as it's been made out to be.
19:12:57 <tiago> OdyX, nope, it's my opinion, and a kind of conference spirit, sorry
19:13:00 <vorlon> the bags will have corporate branded stuff in them
19:13:03 <gaudenz> We offered all bronze+ sponsors to add freebies to the bag
19:13:08 <vorlon> h01ger: hmm, EPARSE?
19:13:34 <OdyX> tiago: fair enough. I disagree then. :)
19:13:40 <gwolf> h01ger: well, ubuntu's sponsor can choose to put some ubuntu swag in our bags
19:13:48 <gwolf> h01ger: they are entitled to.
19:13:49 * h01ger starts dinner and thanks everybody for attending
19:13:50 <tiago> i understand that bag thing, that came out now, so go ahead, it sponsors agree
19:13:57 <gaudenz> #info ubuntu lanyards can go into the conference bag as ubuntu freebies as for all other sponsors.
19:14:01 <gwolf> But yes, I prefer we don't have Intel swag there
19:14:08 <OdyX> I'm for letting the sponsors put lanyards in the bags, rule out Intel and provide neutral cords.
19:14:11 <vorlon> h01ger: oh, you mean Canonical not Ubuntu?  Well, you'll notice that Canonical always uses the Ubuntu logo on the DebConf pages for its sponsorship :)
19:14:14 <nattie> so we turn down the Intel lanyards?
19:14:14 * gwolf supports tiagoFWIW
19:14:17 <OdyX> h01ger: will you order your badge holders ?
19:14:18 <tiago> i was against to a big promotion as workaround
19:14:31 <tiago> that's is sad for debconf
19:14:34 <harmoney> Yes, I'll thank Keith for looking into it for me and kindly request he not have them sent.
19:14:35 <gaudenz> gwolf: I agree as Intel is not a sponsor, not in the bag, but if they are at le camp we can distribute them on a "private" basis
19:14:37 <h01ger> OdyX, no
19:14:44 <OdyX> h01ger: why ?
19:14:47 <harmoney> (and stow a few in my suitcase)
19:15:02 <h01ger> because i'm eating and because its too much work for me for too little use
19:15:07 <OdyX> h01ger: if not, then let's go with cate's proposal as mailed to the list.
19:15:27 <gwolf> gaudenz: Of course. But it's not done by orga-team
19:15:28 <gaudenz> #agreed we want a neutral way to fix the badge (cord, safety pin, ...) and let OdyX sort out the details
19:15:33 <OdyX> wheee
19:15:34 <tiago> it's not hard do understand that debconf is not regular conference, but anyways, it takes time for some
19:15:38 <gaudenz> I think we can move on
19:15:48 <gaudenz> #save
19:15:49 <harmoney> It's a conference that has sponsor support and *thrives* on sponsor support.
19:15:57 <gaudenz> #topic Birthday party
19:16:10 <gaudenz> We need more help organizing the actual party
19:16:11 <harmoney> It really offends me that we request and use this sponsor support, then try to dissuade sponsors from "promoting" themselves.
19:16:22 <harmoney> But, topic changed. Sorry, gaudenz.
19:16:27 <gaudenz> the talks program looks fine, but in the evening we just have a barbecue for now
19:16:28 <OdyX> I think it needs a wiki page (or a link sent to me) because I'm really unclear on what we will happen there
19:16:45 <nattie> barbecues are a fine and lovely thing
19:17:13 * harmoney approves bbq!
19:17:22 <OdyX> one possibility would be to do conference dinner that night and have an awesome meal (as alternative to boat, of course).
19:17:26 <gaudenz> We would like to have some music, the debian band playing or some other band or even something other crazy
19:17:35 <OdyX> #fireworks!
19:18:16 <OdyX> who's on that ?
19:18:37 <nattie> isn't it Kevin Müller who got volunteered to organise the party?
19:18:45 <julien> ;)
19:19:11 <gaudenz> OdyX: can you ask Kevin for help, he did not yet reply to the general call for help
19:19:24 <OdyX> I think he's overwhelmed with $work
19:19:33 <rafw> gaudenz: I have some friends who are in music here.
19:19:46 <gaudenz> nattie: I forgot to ask him while doing all talks reschuffleing
19:19:53 <rafw> And I am happy to help as soon as Day Trip and what ever is ready.
19:20:00 <gaudenz> rafw: nice
19:20:32 <gaudenz> #info the talks program and a barbecue afterwards are organize, we need ideas and people working on the actual party in the evening!
19:20:40 <gaudenz> next topic?
19:21:01 <gaudenz> #topic  Call for volunteers
19:21:22 <nattie> the first call has gone out - should we send a second one as a reminder?
19:21:23 <gaudenz> who wanted to have that on the agenda?
19:21:50 <gaudenz> I still plan to send a mail to swiss lugs and so, it's now next on my todo list (scheduled for tomorrow)
19:22:28 <OdyX> gaudenz: I can send to -fr lists if you hand me a text to translate from.
19:22:39 <gaudenz> The first call was quite successfull for dishwashing, all other teams still need more people
19:22:49 <rafw> gaudenz: well done :)
19:23:15 <gaudenz> anything else?
19:23:30 <gaudenz> #topic AOB
19:24:07 * zobel has one topic for AOB.
19:24:13 <gaudenz> zobel: go ahead
19:24:34 <zobel> Ganneff runs infrastructure of DebConf on one blade on the blade center at bytemark
19:24:57 <zobel> this blade center will be offline on June 30th due to a hardware move to a different datacenter.
19:25:19 <zobel> i do not know what infrastructure of DebConf runs on that blade.
19:25:28 <zobel> i just wanted to inform you of the move.
19:25:40 <zobel> mail to d-i-a@ldo is following shortly.
19:25:43 <zobel> </done>
19:25:44 <gaudenz> #info some debconf infra will be offline on 30th july
19:25:45 <rafw> zobel: June or July?
19:25:58 <zobel> err... July
19:25:59 <gwolf> rafw: june is over :)
19:26:01 <zobel> sorry.
19:26:02 <nattie> rafw: bit late for june ;)
19:26:07 <rafw> :)
19:26:18 <gwolf> (or they plan VERY WELL ahead)
19:26:19 <gaudenz> zobel: maybe cc Ganneff
19:26:20 <XTaran> nattie: Would have made things easier. ;-)
19:26:37 <gaudenz> what's the mikap question?
19:26:38 <zobel> gaudenz: i bounced joerg the mail we got from Bytemark.
19:28:12 <mikapfl> gaudenz: <mikapfl> I got time to come a few days before debconf starts and would be willing to volunteer, h01ger said I should ask here if that's possible accomodation-wise?
19:28:44 <gaudenz> mikapfl: please write to registration@debconf.org if you did not do so already
19:28:59 <gaudenz> we will find a solution I'm quite sure
19:29:02 <gwolf> mikapfl: hi :) I was just telling gaudenz in private we try not to discuss specific people-related, money-related issues in public, archived channels
19:29:18 <gwolf> You already went public with your request, and that's fine :) But I also think you should mail there
19:29:47 <mikapfl> k, I will send mail. Thank you (-:
19:30:04 <gaudenz> mikapfl: nice, looking forward to see you at dc13
19:30:08 <gaudenz> anything else for the meeting?
19:30:19 <zobel> are we done?
19:30:24 <rafw> yes
19:30:26 <nattie> #endmeeting