18:04:49 <gwolf> #startmeeting
18:04:49 <MeetBot> Meeting started Mon Dec 17 18:04:49 2012 UTC.  The chair is gwolf. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:04:49 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
18:04:54 <gwolf> #chair rafw
18:04:54 <MeetBot> Current chairs: gwolf rafw
18:05:14 <rafw> Please have a look on the agenda if you didn't  http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf13/Meetings/20121217
18:05:37 <gwolf> #topic DebConf13: Venue status - Accomodation improvements
18:06:23 * gwolf listens to the nice little crickets
18:06:42 <rafw> I did visit three hotel this afternon in Neuchâtel and I am working on alternative accommodation in Neuchael atm.
18:08:03 <rafw> I will also consider alternative accomodation in Yverdon next year.
18:08:35 <rafw> Do we have anything to discuss about accommodation atm ?
18:08:55 * fil notes that gaudenz is suggesting allocating 4-person rooms for families -- what would we charge the non-attendee guests, and what would we charge for empty beds?
18:08:56 <OdyX> rafw: ah great. I planned too look for Yverdon too.
18:09:32 <gwolf> fil: We will have to work out how to present the options in the registration forms :-|
18:09:50 <rafw> my best offer atm in Neuchâtel as alternative is http://www.beaulac.ch/en/
18:09:51 <gwolf> what kind of accomodation is acceptable/unacceptable/necessary for your stay...
18:10:30 <rafw> but i need to call a taxi/bus company next week.
18:10:37 <gwolf> fil: Regarding charges for such allocation, I'd expect anybody not involved in Debian or in DebConf organization to pay for their expenses (that is, at least something similar to professional)
18:10:40 <fil> the reason I ask is that it seems to me unfair to give people a private room for little money, and thinks that no sane person will pay 4*Professional to sleep 4 feet above their spouse
18:12:07 <rafw> I think we need to work on alternative accommodation for people who doesn't want to sleep at le camp.
18:12:28 <gwolf> rafw: right, and that's what you are doing :)
18:12:59 <rafw> so we will cover all needs.
18:14:08 <rafw> Shall we move to the next topic ?
18:14:47 <fil> my pont is that there are some needs that we will not serve, and we should be realistic about that to avoid disapointment later
18:14:47 <gwolf> #topic Sponsoring + Budget status
18:15:03 <rafw> I can do the sponsoring part.
18:15:23 <gwolf> fil: right, that's something we have to be clear to communicate... although I feel most of the people in such a case are already aware
18:15:42 <rafw> So first, we have commited 94k CHF.
18:16:14 <gismo> rafw: with today's exchange is 93 398.00 CHF ;-)
18:16:31 <rafw> We have still 8 month to go but i think we still need more work on it.
18:16:37 <rafw> gismo: that is an issue.
18:16:39 <fil> gwolf: I'd guess most people are aware that some sort of grief is going on, yes :-/
18:17:30 <rafw> I think we are losing money day after day due to adverse FX rate : http://www.reuters.com/finance/currencies/quote?srcAmt=1.00&srcCurr=USD&destAmt=&destCurr=CHF
18:18:08 * fil has a vague memory of mentioning this problem at DC12
18:18:26 <gismo> rafw: this is why IMHO we should asks for payment in CHF and not in USD/EUR
18:18:44 <gwolf> gismo: we do ask so, don't we?
18:19:03 <gwolf> but I understand i.e. for SPI transactions, deposits from the USA to the USA are carried out in USD
18:19:14 <rafw> gismo: Our sponsor wants to pay through SPI. We just need to take this money in CH and CHF quickly.
18:20:09 <gwolf> #info we currently have ~93-94KCHF comitted (depending on exchange rate)
18:20:14 <gismo> rafw: well, the problem is that if we asks for 5 000.00 USD = 5 000.00 CHF today, the moment the sponsor pays maybe they are 4 999.00 CHF already
18:20:41 <gwolf> #info Exchange rate is hurting us - we have to get the money from whatever currency it is donated in and to CHF as quick as possible
18:21:01 <fil> why not take the Debian cash that's allocated and transfer it immediately, and then use USD sponsor money to pay it back if that's seemed like the right thing to do
18:21:05 <gismo> rafw: which means that we should probably ask for a bit more (let me say 100-200 CHF) in other currencies
18:21:07 <rafw> I will call hug later to ask for a quick transfer. I did fill the form but he needs to review it.
18:21:18 <gismo> fil: +1 (very good idea)
18:21:39 <fil> yeah -- that's why I had it in .ni  *sigh*
18:23:56 <rafw> fil: do you suggest to wire more money than we have to DC13 association ?
18:24:09 <rafw> So we mitigate FX rate?
18:25:03 <gismo> rafw: exactly, as soon as a sponsor commits, we wire the money to .ch
18:25:14 <fil> I suggested that we take the whole amount that the DPL's allocated to DC13 to DC13, or at least into CHF
18:25:35 <rafw> great idean !
18:25:46 <fil> the USD is clearly wobbly -- EUR's no better
18:25:52 <gismo> fil: another option would be to "cover" such expenses with debian.ch money, i.e. Debian money which is already in .ch ;-)
18:27:02 <fil> we'll definitely spend at least the amount currently available, so it should all be in the currency we'll be spending it in, as otherwise the budget is written on toilet paper
18:27:17 <gwolf> #info An idea to avoid losing due to exchange rates is to transfer Debian funds early (now?) and have the sponsors repay Debian that money in whatever currency they prefer later on
18:28:02 <rafw> So, how much do we wire to CHF ?
18:28:12 <fil> of course, there were then worries raised about something or other that I didn't quite follow (VAT -- money laundering? )
18:28:15 <rafw> Knowing we have received USD 26500
18:28:52 <luca> gwolf: that just transfers the exchange rate risk to Debian from DebConf
18:29:32 <gwolf> luca: Yes and no. Debian would transfer i.e. USD26500 today. The sponsors would repay Debian USD26500
18:29:43 <gwolf> luca: But the actual amount in CHF will vary
18:30:04 <fil> luka: no it doesn't if they give us 10k USD now, and they get to keep the last 10k USD sponsorship that comes in, then there's no change to them
18:30:06 <luca> gwolf: if the sponsors are only thinking in CHD, sure
18:30:19 <luca> s/CHD/USD/
18:30:48 <XTaran> .oO( Swiss Dollar? :)
18:30:57 <luca> it'll happen :)
18:30:58 <rafw> OK, we need to explore this topic. Do you agree that I ask our treasurers to wire USD 26.5k asap ?
18:30:59 <fil> I'd guess the ones paying SPI would think USD
18:31:05 <gwolf> well, we should see that the sponsors fix their donation in whatever currency - But the money they commit should be migrated to our prefered currency
18:31:59 <gismo> rafw: if I read fil's suggestion correctly, it should be the whole budget the DPL approved
18:32:22 <gismo> rafw: i.e. independently from sponsor1 or sponsor2's committements
18:32:52 <fil> gismo: that as well -- assuming that we're happy enouhg with today's rate (don't ask me how to choose a good day to do international money transfers though ;-) )
18:33:03 <gismo> rafw: if you prefer, we know that DebConf13 will spend *at least* 1 000 000 000.00 CHF, so we should wire that amount now
18:33:35 <gismo> fil: obviously, I was not asking you to choose, let us leave this stuff for the financial departement ;-)
18:33:36 <luca> fil: you bribe london bankers to modify exchange rates by having them make enormous currency purchases
18:33:52 <rafw> gismo: no, it is not a good idea to do the whole budget.
18:34:06 <fil> luca: OK :-)
18:34:11 * gwolf questions whether gismo's CHF are the Zimbabwean currency now
18:34:22 <rafw> We should wire maxiumum USD money commited maximum in my understand.
18:34:24 <fil> rafw: why not?
18:34:37 <gismo> rafw: then there is no solution at all
18:34:38 <gwolf> rafw: makes sense to me
18:34:53 <gismo> rafw: as I see it
18:35:40 <rafw> fil: we won't received everything in USD.
18:35:58 <gismo> rafw: we do not want everything from USD
18:36:01 <gwolf> rafw: but we know which currency does each committed sponsor prefer?
18:36:03 <rafw> I mean all the sponsors will not pay USD through SPI.
18:36:23 <gismo> fil: we want Debian money (from USD, EUR, or whatever currency we have money in) to .ch
18:36:24 <fil> either we indulge in speculation -- in which case let's have a meeting where we choose the currency to bet on -- or we stick as much as possible in CHF (up to the amount that we'll spend) so that the budget has smoe hope of being meaningful
18:36:40 <gwolf> I mean, I understand most US companies will pay USD through SPI, and I'd expect most European non-swiss ones to pay EUR through FFIs, right?
18:37:19 <gismo> gwolf: no, SEPA transaction in Europe should be exchange-ratio-free <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Euro_Payments_Area>
18:37:55 <gismo> gwolf: and bank-taxe-free as well
18:38:04 <gwolf> gismo: but that means AIUI that if they commit to pay in Euros, the amount will be converted to CHF whenever they perform the transfer
18:38:20 <gwolf> so... that's where we will most likely lose some in the exchange rates..?
18:38:39 <gismo> gwolf: in which case we should "force" them to either commit in CHF or pay in EUR to ffis
18:38:56 <rafw> OK, I suggest we start we reducing our USD exposure quickly by wiring what we have in account in SPI in USD to CHF and CH. Do you agree ?
18:39:23 <gismo> rafw: IMHO that is obvious, as soon as a sponsor gives money they should end up in the DebConf13 account
18:39:36 <gwolf> Right
18:40:21 <fil> the problem is, if they pay in 6 months we can hope that the echange rate gets better for us, but I was under the impression that the .ch gvmt was holding the exchange rate down, and that's likely to go bang at some point (or have I got that backwards?)
18:40:25 <gwolf> #info For sponsors who transfer from Europe, we have the highest risk of losing in the exchange - We should try to get them to commit in CHF, or pay (early) in EUR to FFIS so we can apply the same scheme
18:40:28 <rafw> OK, i will do it.
18:41:43 <gismo> gwolf: please note that IIRC the Swiss National Bank set the minimum EUR/CHF ratio to 1.20 (rafw?)
18:41:43 <rafw> Next topic is budget status.
18:42:14 <rafw> gismo: yes, it is like a fixed rate but it can change from one day to another in my views.
18:42:25 <gwolf> gismo: ...and how long will it be held? We don't really know. We should prefer to have everything already in CHF.
18:42:35 <gwolf> whenever possible
18:42:36 <rafw> they can just say we stop that policy.
18:42:40 <XTaran> There were also talks about setting it to 1.30
18:43:06 <rafw> Shall we move to the next topic ?
18:43:11 <gismo> rafw: sure
18:43:45 <gwolf> rafw: it's in the same "mega-topic", so please go on
18:44:18 <rafw> hug is not online. I suggest we skip the budget status and move to our last topic which is dc12.
18:44:47 <gwolf> ok
18:44:52 <gismo> rafw: fine
18:44:55 <rafw> Does somebody know what is the status of the final report ?
18:45:15 <rafw> i mean dc12 final report.
18:46:12 * gwolf looks away
18:46:55 <rafw> Could we involve dc12 team to do what need to be done ?
18:47:06 <gwolf> I was pinging them in pvt
18:47:11 <gwolf> but no replies yet
18:47:14 <rafw> I didn't work on that at all.
18:47:38 <rafw> Do you know if the report is in english or spanish ?
18:48:02 <gwolf> Well, most of what was written last I knew wsa in English
18:48:13 <gwolf> I understand they had translated it into Spanish to give to one of the sponsors
18:48:22 <gwolf> but I don't know if the effot was carried out to completion
18:48:31 <gwolf> (in short: No, I don't know)
18:49:32 <rafw> We need to find a solution for this final report.
18:50:09 <gwolf> #info We need to find a solution for this final report...
18:50:17 <rafw> Any volonteers for that ?
18:50:27 <gwolf> rafw: Yes. We need somebody to find the current status, assemble the missing parts, and get it over.
18:50:38 <gwolf> should not be *too* hard :-/
18:50:51 <rafw> gwolf: true
18:52:23 <gwolf> ...?
18:52:44 <gwolf> So... next?
18:52:50 <rafw> OK, I will look for status.
18:52:59 <gwolf> any other pending stuff from DC12?
18:53:15 <gwolf> I know the travel refunds for America have not been wired :-/
18:53:29 <gwolf> I will ask schultmc for an expected status on that
18:53:38 <rafw> gwolf: thanks :)
18:53:41 <gwolf> (I understand European refunds are done, right?)
18:54:29 <rafw> gwolf: I guess scultmc will know.
18:54:48 <gwolf> Ok...
18:54:53 <rafw> Any other topic ?
18:54:58 <gwolf> #topic Any Other Business / Next meeting / ...
18:55:54 <gregoa> one question: according to the wiki, there should be dc14 bids in december 2012. what's the status here?
18:56:35 <gwolf> Due to the heavy bickering re:DC13, nobody has followed up on that :(
18:56:44 <gwolf> so that should be a task left for January
18:56:57 <gwolf> (and hoping not to have scared them all away)
18:57:01 <XTaran> gwolf: Are there any tentative bids at all?
18:57:14 <XTaran> gwolf: Indeed.
18:57:39 <gregoa> I supposed it got lost in the recent turmoil ... (and I'm also a bit nervous about scaring them away)
18:58:10 <rafw> next meeting will be: Global Team meeting, Thursday 17. January 2013, 20h00 UTC
18:58:29 <gwolf> XTaran: I don't know if any have followed up
18:58:44 <gregoa> XTaran: http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf14#Early_Plans
18:58:57 <gwolf> I remember Canada and Venezuela bidded(?) during DC12 (and Martinique was bidded as well - but taffit should know)
18:58:59 <XTaran> gregoa: Thanks! Was just on my way to click me through
18:59:20 <gwolf> #info next meeting will be: Global Team meeting, Thursday 17. January 2013, 20h00 UTC
18:59:25 <gregoa> the montréal page is unchanged since july, .ve was last modified in november
18:59:34 <gwolf> Oki... So are we all set for this meeting?
18:59:43 <gwolf> (1h sharp!)
18:59:46 <rafw> yes, i think we are done.
18:59:52 <gwolf> #endmeeting