17:57:11 #startmeeting DebConf12 meeting 17:57:11 Meeting started Tue Jun 19 17:57:11 2012 UTC. The chair is moray. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 17:57:11 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 17:57:22 hello 17:57:28 hola 17:57:39 hola 17:57:54 o/ 17:58:11 (don't do budget first, still tabulating, will send to -team@) 17:58:12 hola 17:58:19 #chair gwolf 17:58:19 Current chairs: gwolf moray 17:58:22 please say hi + introduce yourself 17:58:23 #chair h01ger 17:58:23 Current chairs: gwolf h01ger moray 17:58:30 agenda is where? 17:58:35 http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf12/Meetings#Global_team_meeting.2C_Tuesday_19_June_2012.2C_18:00_UTC 17:58:44 #topic Status of government support 17:58:44 dank oyu 17:59:11 n0rman, leogg, xamanu: ^ 17:59:14 we haz hotels! 17:59:33 govt confirmed yesterday that they are paying hotels 17:59:34 \o/! and vip rooms, busses & other stuff? ;) 17:59:41 :D :D :D 17:59:46 100% of people during debcamp 17:59:48 mostly other stuff.. 17:59:53 and other stuff 17:59:56 right 18:00:07 leogg: (modulo darst's mail yesterday: It might not really amount to saving money, but just to being in a better hotel, right?) 18:00:15 vip room, buses, day trip, place for conf dinner 18:00:18 leogg, so what else are they giving 18:00:33 gwolf, right 18:00:38 day trip! yay! +conf dinner yay! + rest also great 18:00:46 but we haven't the quotes from the hotels yet 18:00:51 gwolf: it will save money since we don't have to use that hotel for debconf 18:00:54 okk 18:00:55 +tent for eating place 18:00:59 h01ger: only the place for conference dinner, not the food 18:01:00 nice 18:01:01 shirts for debian day 18:01:09 darst: right, and it will give us a better quality for the same money, at least 18:01:14 and other cool stuff 18:01:16 #info Government will pay for DebCamp accommodation 18:01:21 #info ... and many more in-species stuff 18:01:23 #info Government will pay for conference dinner venue (not food) 18:01:35 #info Government will pay for Debian Day shirts ... and more stuff 18:01:38 #info govt sponsors hotels during debcamp, day trip, busses, place for conf dinner, shirts for debian-day and otzher cool stuff 18:01:45 so, maybe we should discuss about govt sponsorship level? 18:01:48 leogg: what are shirts for debian day -- more t-shirts for attendees? 18:01:50 I think is time to put the Gov. logo on the website right? 18:01:51 * h01ger high fives moray 18:02:00 leogg: agree 18:02:05 only with thw hotels part it's ~10K 18:02:10 rmayorga, yes. we need to discuss under wchih category 18:02:17 leogg: I feel they qualify for platinum if they give us all of what they say 18:02:19 whats 10k USD? 18:02:22 moray, 500 shirts for attendees and visitors 18:02:23 even though it's not all monetizable 18:02:24 or is that too little? 18:02:40 13k said darst, right? 18:02:43 gwolf, agreed 18:02:47 leogg: great. ... can we get some Staff ones for Debian Day included in that? 18:02:48 (so 13) 18:02:55 h01ger, yep, more or less 18:03:02 13 would fall just below platinum IIRC 18:03:06 (15K?) 18:03:11 moray, of course 18:03:17 platinum is 25k 18:03:17 leogg: would be good 18:03:26 gwolf, 13K just for hotels 18:03:26 I would err towards putting them higher rather than lower 18:03:38 if they could make the hotels cheaper for us during debconf... then i'd be happy with platinum ;) 18:03:45 * h01ger nods moray 18:03:52 as (a) we want to make them happy and (b) for a non-recurring sponsor we don't need to worry as much about incentives for the future 18:03:59 so gold? 18:04:06 h01ger: and they will give you many many (smaller but still good) things 18:04:12 buses costs a lot of money 18:04:25 for day trip 18:04:31 and the permanent ones 18:04:38 and (c) we don't want them to reduce things they would give us as it's greater in cost than the threshold we already applied ;) 18:04:43 I think they qualify for platinum 18:04:59 so gold or platinum? uca is platinum so... 18:05:00 I would say platinum is right 18:05:15 * h01ger wants cheaper hotels for us during debconf 18:05:18 (sigh... both our platinum sponsors actually costed us some money ;-) ) 18:05:18 leogg: normally this would have been part of the negotiation with them ;) 18:05:39 moray, yes... but it's hard to negotiate with govt 18:05:44 gwolf, yeah :(((( 18:05:50 I am not the sponsorship team, but I have no personal objection to them being platinum if that's felt appropriate 18:05:55 thats totally silly, abusive/inflation of that level 18:06:12 * h01ger thinks we agreed on platinum already 18:06:26 #agree The government gets platinum sponsor status 18:06:29 h01ger: "silly" is UCA, not govt? 18:06:36 (is it #agree? #agreed?) 18:06:43 gwolf: both work 18:06:44 #agreed The government gets platinum sponsor status 18:06:45 i'm just complaining in parallel that platinum sponsors that cost us money are silly 18:06:46 oh ok 18:06:49 h01ger: sure 18:07:03 ok, next topic then, or more to discuss re govt? 18:07:06 if they were gold, i wouldnt use the word "silly" here :) 18:07:07 h01ger: right. But nobody said things make sense in Nicaragua ;-) Yo qué se... 18:07:24 what does the govt expect from us? 18:07:27 talk at debianday? 18:07:34 how to get the logo? 18:07:39 we would *like* a govt talk, if they can send someone senior 18:07:48 * h01ger nods 18:08:01 I think they are expecting from us only to put the logo 18:08:04 *which* logo do they want? I don't believe it will be the Nation's coat of arms 18:08:16 h01ger, I think they're more interested in the "good press" this is going to give them 18:08:25 mybe we can offer them to have the first lady on our debianday opening... 18:08:30 gwolf, govt logo 18:08:32 leogg: what do you think? 18:08:32 moray / n0rman: I think we can invite a senior person from the govt to sit on the inauguration 18:08:35 n0rman, do 18:08:40 n0rman, absolutely 18:08:47 and if they want to give a DebianDay talk (politically important, full of locals), they are entitled to it 18:08:51 n0rman, sorry 18:09:00 n0rman, not on debian day... 18:09:11 why not? 18:09:12 we already have uca authorities 18:09:14 leogg: why not? 18:09:18 leogg: yes, but we can add them 18:09:19 the vice dean 18:09:26 if they request us that, we can't say no... 18:09:27 leogg: and last year we had people from several levels of the Srpskan govt 18:09:38 leogg: Platinum sponsors are entitled to a plenary talk... 18:09:39 n0rman, you know that uca and govt dont get along to well 18:09:48 leogg: it would be quite normal to have the vice dean open, welcome everyone on behalf of UCA, then later have a govt talk in the schedule 18:09:51 leogg: I know, we need to talk with them 18:09:58 And they will be happier to deliver it when it's mediatically important for Nicaraguans, I think 18:10:15 ok, only if they request us 18:10:18 it's going to be another headache for us.... 18:10:23 * h01ger thinks locals will know best when to schedule govt talks.. 18:10:32 we need to think what we need to sid them if they request us that 18:10:36 h01ger, thank you 18:10:37 but right, we should not run offering the talk slot to them 18:10:42 if they request it, they will get it 18:10:48 said 18:10:51 . o O (scheduled at 8:30AM?) 18:10:56 we can also have a govt thing a different day 18:11:04 if they want that 18:11:09 ujum 18:11:13 first day of debconf? 18:11:14 so the locals can keep them apart from UCA ;) 18:11:21 leogg: maybe :) 18:11:24 leogg: would be quite appropriate, yes 18:11:25 yes, please 18:11:26 hmm. a slot just before midday ... than they sponsor also the lunch! 18:11:31 haha 18:11:32 whenever 18:11:35 next topic? 18:11:36 :) 18:11:36 anyway, I think the locals get our point :) 18:11:37 anything else? 18:11:48 logo 18:11:53 who gets the govt logo? 18:11:58 I think this is already ready for t-shirts 18:11:59 one more thing 18:12:15 but we need the website version of the logo too, yes 18:12:24 leogg: please go ahead 18:12:25 h01ger, xamanu is requesting the logo 18:12:39 cool 18:12:44 anything else? 18:12:45 just to let you know that I went to seminole today 18:12:46 or next topic 18:12:55 and they giving me a quote later today 18:13:00 for debconf? 18:13:02 or camp? 18:13:07 camp and conf 18:13:12 cool 18:13:13 this sounds like next topic? 18:13:14 I requested two quotes 18:13:15 leogg: I think we can discuss that on another topic 18:13:16 #topic Accommodation 18:13:21 right 18:13:30 we should be *almost* at final numbers now 18:13:31 #topic money in .ni 18:13:31 right :) 18:13:37 sure 18:13:41 its not on the agenda and before i forget it.. 18:13:42 gwolf: that's the next topic after accom? 18:13:45 h01ger: it *is* 18:13:53 h01ger: maybe you need to reload 18:13:53 * gaudenz finished reading the backlog 18:13:56 * h01ger reloads 18:14:03 so which topic now? 18:14:05 moray: I didn't change it, today I'm basically following along 18:14:08 (+sorry) 18:14:23 #topic Accommodation 18:14:33 leogg: but, no problem from their point of view? 18:14:43 they still have rooms available? ;) 18:14:51 leogg: how it was the quote? only in seminole? 18:14:58 moray, yes.. they have rooms available 18:15:10 n0rman, I need a second quote from holiday inn 18:15:11 how many (beds)? 18:15:16 for the govt 18:15:29 they're going to give us the cheapest option 18:15:30 we are close to having final numbers now, http://munin.debconf.org/debconf.org/skinner.debconf.org-penta_accomodation.html 18:15:37 what would be our breaking point to consider staying at the same hotel? 18:15:38 when will you need money to reserve the hotels? or can we reserve without paying? 18:15:39 but perhaps there will be a last-minute rush to confirm 18:15:44 h01ger, they have 84 rooms in total 18:15:53 I know it's not very likely, but... would be best 18:15:54 leogg: how many people in those rooms? 18:15:59 they're giving us rooms with two and three beds 18:16:05 14:20 < gwolf> what would be our breaking point to consider staying at the same hotel? 18:16:06 (I mean, to decide we won't change midway) 18:16:13 I calculated 42 $/person/night before 18:16:23 leogg, so basically we could put almost everybody in those 84 rooms? 18:16:25 h01ger, n0rman, ISIC needs to sign a contract with seminole 18:16:32 * h01ger nods 18:16:34 leogg: ok, no problem for that 18:16:35 no money needed for reservation 18:16:35 darst: right, but if leogg gets a better quote now that it's for govt 18:16:42 just a contract 18:16:45 leogg: how many people in those rooms? 18:16:48 2-3 18:16:50 signed by our representative 18:16:55 darst: it could go down... Are we willing to pay 35? 30? 18:16:58 n0rman, what h01ger said 18:17:05 leogg: will they let you book for DebCamp while still negotiating about DebConf itself? 18:17:06 (could be used as a bargaining point by leogg) 18:17:10 for gov hotels: if they cost more than that for us, it outweighs savings of debcamp 18:17:14 leogg: so, 170 persons in seminole? 18:17:21 moray, yes, they will 18:17:25 good 18:17:39 n0rman, I'm only asking a quote for debcamp people 18:17:40 gwolf: $29 is what we are paying now, $42 is cutoff, so $35 would be about 5k$ more (if I'm thinking of this right) 18:18:01 anyway, it seems we need to (re)get all quotes and then decide, but can't yet today? 18:18:10 and seminole will give us a free room for every ten room we occupy 18:18:33 leogg: so we still don't know about debconf prices in seminle? 18:18:48 n0rman, please read backlog :) 18:19:03 n0rman, they'll give me the quotes later today 18:19:07 if we don't have the numbers yet for prices or for people, there's not much point continuing the discussion just now 18:19:24 right 18:19:27 leogg: but you sid 14:23 < leogg> n0rman, I'm only asking a quote for debcamp people 18:19:53 debconf-data: 3 holger committed revision 3467 to debconf-data: blog about deadline tomorrow 18:19:53 debconf-data: files changed: A blog/blog/debconf12/hl_dc12_reconfirmation.txt 18:20:12 leogg, so thats a 9% discount (one free room per ten we book) 18:20:30 h01ger: a bit less as we don't expect to have a multiple of 11 rooms 18:20:31 n0rman, a)that's what was requested by govt, b) we dont want to everybody to stay at the most expensive hotel, or do we? 18:20:34 n0rman, i think leogg will ask for all quotes now 18:20:47 leogg, do ask, please.. 18:20:48 h01ger, right 18:20:55 n0rman: I think the point is that the quotes are *separate8 18:21:00 next topic...? 18:21:03 n0rman: we get both, but they're not combined 18:21:05 leogg: it depends about the quotes. Maybe with a lot people we will have high reduction (but I doubt) 18:21:16 #topic Money 18:21:23 I am about to send email now 18:21:29 can we come back to this in 5 min after you have read it? 18:21:42 darst: well, the first bit doesn't involve you personally 18:21:47 "Do we need to use 'emergency route' to send some money?" 18:22:13 it seems that there's some trouble locally of not having any cash to work with 18:22:44 moray, I think we have an emergency right now 18:22:44 fortunatelly it seems that no pre-payment for hotel are needed 18:22:45 ignoring the general money transfer issues, some money is needed *now* 18:22:54 moray: right now means..? 18:23:10 leogg: please expand 18:23:12 I understood the govt sponsorship took some steam out of the pressure 18:23:35 we need to pay for a lot of stuff... and we have nothing 18:23:44 gwolf: I think that normally there are many expenses which get paid then reimbursed later, but that method doesn't seem to work this year 18:23:57 leogg: at least FFIS started trsnfer 2 of 5 invoice we sent them 18:24:06 and I really don't know why 2 inested of the 5 we sent them 18:24:08 n0rman, internet and food 18:24:13 and joey didn't answer that 18:24:18 yet 18:24:18 grmbl 18:24:24 h01ger: right, yet 18:24:26 the question aint that old 18:24:29 it's teally 40% of what we need 18:24:35 and it was not attempted via SPI? 18:24:36 s/teally/really 18:24:51 gwolf: I think SPI will also have delays, at best 18:24:57 gwolf, not yet. also there is less money at spi 18:25:15 an emergency route was suggested via xamanu's bank account, the question is whether the local team can persuade us this is really needed now 18:25:20 moray: right, but I expect it to be easier to transfer, as I expect closer ties between Nicaragua and the USA than to Europe 18:25:35 yes. i also would like to know what money is needed right now 18:25:38 I understood the "emergency route" was to be taken for the Internet payment 18:26:05 gwolf: right, and FFIS started to transfer two invoices, I don't remember which one now 18:26:05 locals -- ? 18:26:15 so we hope that money arrive at the end of this week 18:26:29 n0rman, who is tracking money locally? 18:26:32 locals, please tell us why you need money *now* besides the existing invoices 18:26:38 h01ger, moray, we need the money we requested to ffis 18:26:40 n0rman, can hask hepl with that? 18:27:18 leogg, /me nods. i've just pinged joey.. 18:27:25 leogg, how much is that? 18:27:29 moray, right now, we need only what we requested to ffis 18:27:47 h01ger: leogg xamanu and I are the trackers 18:27:48 leogg: how much is it, and what is it for? 18:27:53 doing a money transfer to lazyboys or xamanus bank account sounds doable 18:28:02 leogg: and for additional t-shirts, the list discussion suggested that you should now request more money? is someone doing that? 18:28:10 nothing was yet attempted by the "emergency" route (i.e. Germans overseas)? 18:28:17 n0rman, thats a team and doesnt work. as evidenced by the situation. i want a single person. like darst, but on site 18:28:18 gwolf: don't think so, no 18:28:44 moray, money requests should go through n0rman 18:28:45 joey sent an email "Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 21:46:04 +0200" sying that the transfer for food and internet started 18:28:47 * xamanu is arriving late after a nice talk with lazyb0y 18:29:04 so food+internet money is in the way to .ni 18:29:34 xamanu: do you know reasons we should use the "emergency route" to send money via your account now? 18:29:41 h01ger: I can do that since I'm with ISIC if xamanu nd leogg are ok with that 18:29:44 ?? 18:29:56 n0rman, xamanu, can you check the amount that was requested to ffis? my internet is terrible slow 18:29:59 n0rman: I agree 18:30:02 xamanu: or are things ok, as long as the invoices are kept going? 18:30:11 n0rman, honestly spoken i'm not sure you can communicate these needs well. and you are and also will become more busy with dc12 itself.. 18:30:25 leogg: we requested them $11.913,62 18:30:29 moray: no. we need money urgently for food. but this is already on the way (but might arrive late) 18:30:56 Do we pay all the foods in advance? Is it not the way to have bad food? 18:31:00 late arrival could be related to late requesting.. 18:31:06 our food provider requested the money two weeks in advance 18:31:12 h01ger: yes, but we have no other person who can do that, all of us are with a lot of things 18:31:19 cate, only 50% 18:31:25 n0rman, thats why i suggest to ask hask 18:31:28 or someone else 18:31:28 leogg: ok 18:31:31 dont overload yourself 18:32:02 * gwolf has to leave 18:32:05 real life calling 18:32:10 sorry, I'll catch up later 18:32:16 (after meeting /methinks) 18:32:20 h01ger: not sure if hask will be with us 100%, I think she will hve a new job in the next days/weeks, let me ask her 18:32:22 * leogg has to leave soon also 18:32:29 gwolf: ping me about talks 18:32:56 #info n0rman to ask hask about helping on local money/budget 18:33:17 so, no one has given a reason to use the emergency route yet -- next topic? 18:33:22 but if we can't get hask for that taks, I think I will do it 18:33:28 good 18:33:31 :) 18:33:32 (let's skip travel sponsorship and come back to it later, do local stuff first) 18:33:39 moray, to pay our food provider? 18:33:44 he needs money *now* 18:33:48 how much? 18:33:53 leogg: money is comming in the next days 18:33:58 h01ger, USD5K 18:34:17 that's too much to use xamanu's account, I think, from the withdrawal limit mentioned before? 18:34:23 (i.e. no quicker than waiting) 18:34:24 n0rman, he needed the money two weeks before debcamp 18:34:25 * h01ger doesnt know whether to listen to leogg now ("needs money now") or n0rman 18:34:36 leogg: FFIS already transfers the money..... 18:34:40 can you please agree? 18:34:53 h01ger, food provider told dachenka he needed money 2 weeks before debcamp 18:34:54 so don't know if FFIS will be ok to trnsfer more money with "food" description 18:35:14 n0rman, when will you have the money? tomorrow? 18:35:30 for urgent money, *please* look into using SPI too 18:35:39 see #dc12-ni 18:35:40 as this may be quicker, for invoices that haven't been started yet 18:36:14 n0rman, then let isic create an invoice. and yes, "food for dc12" is a fine descrtipion. noone wants to know what we ate :) 18:36:30 yes 18:36:33 n0rman, remember: isic can do invoices! 18:36:36 please (a) use ISIC invoices 18:36:40 and (b) check about using SPI as well 18:36:45 h01ger: right 18:36:53 schultmc: are you there? 18:37:30 next topic? 18:38:04 mail of darst 18:38:32 to where? -team? me reads 18:38:32 let's skip travel sponsorship and come back to it later, do local stuff first 18:38:38 #topic Printing 18:39:14 for t-shirts, the last suggestion on the list was to order the 250 + 75 + 75 'now' 18:39:36 moray, we'll order them tomorrow if you all agree 18:39:43 +1 18:39:47 and send an invoice for an additional order 'now', to start in one week 18:40:08 ok 18:40:12 since there is no spare money locally, it makes sense to split (if we take additional ones at all) 18:40:18 moray: we have money for the first 50% from a local sponsor and the second 50% we have to request from SPI 18:40:36 xamanu: perhaps you should request the whole 100% from SPI? 18:40:44 n0rman, please make and send invoice for additional shirts 18:40:46 so that you keep some money locally to be used? 18:40:49 leogg: ok 18:40:59 xamanu: otherwise you will stay in this messy situation 18:41:11 * h01ger nods moray 18:41:24 moray: but we have to pay the 50% tomorrow, so not possible. and the local sponsor told us that they want to spend this money for t-shirts 18:41:26 but maybe the local sponsor want the invoice of t-shirt 18:41:42 xamanu: no, you can pay the 50% already, but still request 100% from SPI 18:41:46 the local sponsor already has its invoice... 18:42:03 you also plan to order a second batch of shirts 18:42:08 .oO( the govt should sponsors bail-out for debconf, like govts do nowadays.. ) 18:42:14 -s 18:42:15 so there is plenty of "t-shirt spending" for both of the invoices 18:42:58 we never discussed the design + colors, did we? thats a first! ;) (or maybe not for much longer..) 18:43:02 we still lack this part: can someone suggest a number of additional t-shirts for a second batch? 18:43:32 I wasn't suggesting a huge number extra myself, but I think 250+75+75 is quite tight 18:43:52 or do we discuss this out of meeting? 18:43:55 * leogg has to go 18:44:09 thank you all, will read backlog 18:44:47 we need to change the meeting times. We always finish without local team! 18:44:59 cate: we don't have many of these meetings left to worry about :p 18:45:29 * h01ger thinks those numbers are fine indeed 18:46:09 h01ger: you can't say "indeed" if you're disagreeing 18:46:34 (I was suggesting ordering a few extra staff ones at least) 18:47:15 so how many more? 18:47:40 we have 61 staff people in penta, already, normally we hope to recruit more -- and like I said, it would be civilised for people wearing them for identifiability to have more than one 18:48:30 so 120? 18:48:35 We could identify by smell 18:48:42 :) 18:48:44 cate: that's what I'm worried about :) 18:49:14 nothing so more staff and video or only staff? 18:49:33 * xamanu internet sucks today... 30s lag 18:49:35 for video there were 48 requests in the wiki at dc11, we have ordered 75 18:49:50 so less tight, h01ger can decide if that's enough 18:50:07 (we expect less video people at dc12 than dc11, probably) 18:50:33 why moray ? and hi! 18:50:40 h01ger: I would say for staff we want somewhere between 50 and 70 more, if we're bothering at all 18:50:42 so, maybe 50-60 for video is ok? 18:50:47 I expect to be there ;) 18:51:04 n0rman: no, I don't think anyone suggested reducing 18:51:09 moray: ok 18:51:14 * h01ger nods 18:51:29 The dabian day and the debConf are the same design? 18:51:44 presumably not quite 18:51:48 moray: but as you said that in DC11 was ordered 75 and you don't have to have a bigger group in DC12 than in DC11 18:51:56 n0rman: I didn't say that 18:51:59 cate: no. debian day t-shirts are going to be printed by gov or not at all 18:52:00 cate: not, is not the same, the designs are in svn, you can check 18:52:07 moray: ok, sorry, that was what I understood 18:53:06 ? 18:53:18 * h01ger thinks 75 is fine for video.. i do hope for more than 50 real volunteers and rather would like 75 18:53:31