18:12:53 <moray> #startmeeting DebConf meeting
18:12:53 <MeetBot> Meeting started Tue May 29 18:12:53 2012 UTC.  The chair is moray. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:12:53 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
18:13:04 <moray> #topic Internet/Connectivity
18:13:18 <moray> News?
18:14:04 <xamanu> The ISP we have talked to (Navega) is not reachable over phone since quite some days. n0rman was trying to contact them.
18:14:07 <n0rman> No news, still waiting answer from 2 ISP
18:14:21 <moray> so, nothing to discuss, unless you have any questions?
18:14:40 <moray> #info Still waiting for responses from ISPs
18:15:03 <moray> #topic Sponsorship (outgoing) team
18:15:33 <moray> There was some hint of action on this
18:15:48 <moray> I saw http://www.doodle.com/7gasmbpvb3exc8k5
18:15:59 <moray> which is a poll for a meeting time in the next few days
18:16:04 <moray> anyone able to give more information?
18:16:29 <xamanu> no, this is it, as far as i know
18:16:38 <n0rman> We have no info yet, there are not much people in http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf12/Teams
18:16:48 <xamanu> but there was not clear if it is the sponsorship team or the "travel" sponsorship team
18:17:34 <cate> xamanu: both
18:17:35 <moray> The "Sponsorship (outgoing) team", as I put it above, is what's normally the Travel sponsorship/bursaries etc.
18:17:50 <moray> But probably there's no money for travel sponsorship
18:18:01 <n0rman> I think we have more people, don't know if we can ping someone who was in that team before
18:18:04 <moray> and probably we need to be more careful about accommodation and food than some other years
18:18:11 <n0rman> s/have/need
18:18:40 <gaudenz> how can we get access to the penta data?
18:18:46 <xamanu> moray: so we need somebody in charge of food and accommodation sponsorships...
18:18:57 <moray> xamanu: that is this team
18:18:58 <xamanu> i think this team should be in charge of both
18:19:15 <gaudenz> makes sense
18:19:32 <n0rman> of course
18:20:11 <n0rman> is supposed i'm in charge of the team, I wrote an email until yesterday asking for volunteers in this team
18:20:28 <xamanu> #info The sponsorships (outgoing) team is in charge of all types of sponsorships: food, accommodation and travel
18:21:19 <moray> any more questions about this?
18:21:38 <moray> I guess some people won't volunteer but will help if asked -- if you still need more people
18:21:53 <moray> though note the concerns of fil etc. about having people just choose their friends
18:22:06 <n0rman> moray: who do you think do I need to contact?
18:22:16 <xamanu> not sure if this fits better into this topic or in the next one: but due to the lack of money from sponsors we seriously should consider to ask Debian for money...
18:22:25 <n0rman> Ganneff? Hydroxide?
18:22:51 <moray> n0rman: to contact for what?
18:23:04 <n0rman> 14:24 < moray> I guess some people won't volunteer but will help if asked -- if you still need more people
18:23:24 <moray> well, if you are getting more I would suggest Debian people who are less involved in DebConf
18:24:15 <moray> from the poll, you should have team members already who can suggest appropriate people from that category
18:24:37 <moray> (to avoid it just being me suggesting my own friends for this ;
18:24:38 <moray> )
18:25:34 <n0rman> we are 8 persons
18:25:59 <gaudenz> moray: I wouldn't be that worried about this. If it's too obvious we will notice and otherwise we should trust people to do their best.
18:26:49 <gaudenz> We could also have a policy of not rating people whom we know too good (whatever that means, to be definded)
18:27:12 <n0rman> gaudenz: is there a chance that you cand do it on friday at 19UTC?  In doodle says no, but maybe you can try to have our first meeting
18:27:16 <moray> gaudenz: the worries are probably less if it's about accomm+food than travel anyway
18:27:59 <moray> i.e. there's less bias in "yes, they're involved enough to qualify" than in rating who of many applications is *most* deserving
18:29:08 <moray> so, next topic?
18:29:25 <moray> #info The team should have its first meeting soon
18:29:39 <moray> #topic Sponsorship (incoming)
18:29:55 <moray> Is anyone still working on getting more sponsors?
18:30:04 <moray> Is anyone actually sending out the consultants message?
18:30:36 <gaudenz> I'm going to send the consultans message unless someone else wants to do it.
18:30:45 <n0rman> moray: we are working in that, but I think we need to check sponsors paymnts
18:30:58 <n0rman> gaudenz: please do it
18:31:06 <gaudenz> I'm just want to confirm that http://debconf12.debconf.org/donations.xhtml is a good idea.
18:31:15 <gaudenz> see my last commit in svn
18:31:16 <moray> n0rman: by "check sponsors payments", you mean, to see if they have actually arrived?
18:31:41 <n0rman> moray: to see if they alrady pay
18:32:03 <moray> because you don't know if they have paid, or because they definitely haven't paid?
18:32:44 <moray> gaudenz: I can't see donations.xhtml on the site or in svn - ?
18:32:47 <n0rman> at least, with SPI I can't check who already paid
18:33:26 <moray> darst was doing this before I think
18:33:30 <moray> he might be able to help
18:34:29 <darst> with what exactly ?
18:34:42 <moray> darst: how did we track before who has actually paid?
18:34:45 <darst> ah
18:34:46 <moray> darst: (sponsors)
18:34:47 <n0rman> darst: checking sponsors that already paid
18:34:54 <darst> FFIS we can look at transactions directly
18:35:10 <darst> SPI we need to get schultmc to tell us
18:35:20 <gaudenz> moray: I meant adding the following sentence to the mail: " All donors will be listed in a special donors section of
18:35:27 <gaudenz> the DebConf 12 website[2]."
18:35:28 <darst> and there was a spreadsheet last year that tracked things
18:35:29 <darst> paid vs expecting
18:35:30 <n0rman> darst: I'm updating ledger right now with FFIS information
18:35:44 <gaudenz> where [2] is http://debconf12.debconf.org/donors.xhtml
18:35:51 <gaudenz> this page does not yet exist.
18:35:58 <moray> ok
18:36:17 * h01ger waves and starts to catch up on backlog
18:36:18 <moray> gaudenz: saying we list them somewhere is fine from my point of view, as long as we keep a clear distinction vs. the main sponsors
18:36:18 <gaudenz> the question is if we want to do this as h01ger suggested
18:36:33 <moray> so probably just a list of names, on one page, no links
18:37:28 <n0rman> darst: do we have to record names in ledger of persons paying their prof registration ?
18:38:50 <h01ger> #info re: sponsorship team: gwolf or fitoria should be on it, as they have penta access. ask them nicely ;)
18:39:27 <cate> h01ger: wrong topic?
18:40:00 <h01ger> i know, keep talking about the current one
18:40:37 * h01ger obviously likes his suggestion with a simple thanks page for "small sponsors" and maybe even corporate/prof.attendees (if they want to be listed there)
18:40:46 <h01ger> s/with/of/
18:41:18 <moray> h01ger: do you agree that "just names on one page, no links" is reasonable, to keep the main sponsors in a prefered status?
18:42:03 <h01ger> yup
18:42:41 <gaudenz> what about names on one page with link but no logo and nothing else?
18:42:58 <moray> gaudenz: that already gives them the same gain with Google etc. as a main sponsor gets
18:43:38 <moray> (as clever-enough algorithms won't give extra credit for more identical links from the same website)
18:43:43 <gaudenz> but main sponsors are on every page
18:43:49 <moray> see my brackets
18:44:22 <gaudenz> I agree about the google rank, but still think it a much smaller benefit
18:44:39 <n0rman> something like debconf-contributors.xhtml?
18:44:45 <cate> moray: but a page with many links give less credits to links (and hout main sponsor don't deserve debconf to increase PageRank
18:45:07 <moray> this is already a special case for them, I just don't see why we should have links anyway
18:45:24 * h01ger nods moray
18:45:37 <h01ger> we need to keep the small sponsoring benefits we do have
18:45:42 <h01ger> we cannot water them down
18:45:47 <h01ger> or rather: we should not
18:45:51 <gaudenz> I don't care that much. I'm ok with just names.
18:46:13 <moray> #agreed Small sponsors should (optionally) get listed on a special page of the website -- no links, just names
18:46:26 <moray> How about general sponsor work?
18:46:39 <moray> Have people given up, or is work still happening to find more money?
18:46:50 <gaudenz> To finish the topic: Is donors.xhtml ok or is debconf-contributors.xhtml better?
18:46:59 <h01ger> donors
18:47:05 <moray> gaudenz: "contributors" sounds like volunteers etc. to me
18:47:08 <h01ger> contributors are way more
18:47:09 <moray> so donors, yes
18:47:31 <n0rman> uhmmmm
18:47:32 <moray> #agreed donors.xhtml
18:47:44 <moray> n0rman: ?
18:48:04 <gaudenz> How is going to create that page? I think if it's listed in the mail it should exist before sending the mail.
18:48:13 <gaudenz> s/How/Who/
18:48:24 <moray> Someone should contact existing small donors to see if they want to be listed.
18:48:39 <moray> (No response = not included)
18:48:40 <n0rman> moray: don't know how can I write it, just want to know how sponsorship-team ping sponsors to remind thm to make the payment, or sponsorship-team don't do it?
18:49:21 <moray> 19:35 < darst> FFIS we can look at transactions directly
18:49:21 <moray> 19:35 < darst> SPI we need to get schultmc to tell us
18:49:31 <n0rman> moray: that about how to track
18:49:32 <moray> so the team should contact schultmc1 to ask
18:49:57 <moray> if they haven't paid yet, but an invoice has been sent, then yes, contact them politely to ask when payment is expected
18:50:03 <n0rman> but, in FFIS there are four sponsors that they already has PO but theirs payment to ffis is not done yet
18:50:12 <h01ger> gaudenz, you can perfectly send that mail stating that this page will be created :) it works.
18:50:18 <moray> (but for many big companies, it can take a long time to pay invoices)
18:50:21 <n0rman> so, can I ping them? or sponsorship-team just wait until they make the payment
18:50:48 * h01ger still plans to do some sponsor work
18:50:51 <moray> n0rman: pinging, politely is fine -- write the message as if they obviously *want* to pay, and just that some bureaucrat is perhaps being slow
18:51:00 <h01ger> but please, take it away from me ;P
18:51:01 <n0rman> h01ger: can you ping sponsors you already sent the PO but no payment yet?
18:51:05 <moray> n0rman: so ask when they expect to pay, not *if* they will pay :)
18:51:07 <n0rman> :)
18:51:15 <h01ger> n0rman, if you ping me tomorrow...
18:51:23 <n0rman> h01ger: I'll do it :)
18:51:36 <moray> and it's fine to mention that we need money soon for cashflow/liquidity
18:51:47 <moray> so that it would be helpful if they can pay quickly
18:52:05 <moray> but, as I say, many companies are just slow, and our contacts won't be able to make them faster
18:52:36 <n0rman> we are still looking for sponsors here in .ni as well, we are still working in that, we have not given up yet
18:52:54 <n0rman> moray: ok, but we have not much money, and we need that money :)
18:53:10 <darst> (sorry, prof walked in)
18:53:23 <moray> n0rman: yes of course, but upsetting our contacts doesn't help that
18:53:50 <n0rman> moray: yes, that's why i'm asking how you manage that before doing something stupid :)
18:54:43 <moray> you shouldn't upset them if you are polite, and just say you're checking everything is in progress, would like to know the expected date, oh and of course if they can speed it up we would really appreciate it but we understand these things can take time, etc.
18:55:18 <moray> if you're unsure, you should be able to get some help on a draft message from others in the sponsorship team or others in the general DebConf team
18:55:47 * bremner can help with English/tone
18:56:04 <n0rman> moray: ok, before sending the email I will ask h01ger and zumbi, who are the contacts with those sponsors to see if they can ping them :)
18:56:05 <moray> re the consultants message, should that, or another message, remind people to tell us if they have ideas for possible sponsors?
18:56:30 <n0rman> gaudenz: when are you planning to send the email?
18:56:43 <gaudenz> tonight
18:57:17 <n0rman> great
18:57:40 <gaudenz> moray: I think the message is already long enough, don't know if that really helps a lot...
18:57:57 * h01ger was busy in important talk #elsewhere
18:57:58 <moray> yeah, I think it might confuse that message
18:58:07 <moray> but could be worth another message like that *somewhere*
18:58:14 <moray> even e.g. a Planet post from someone in the sponsorship team?
18:59:15 <n0rman> moray: post about.. "do you have nay idea where we can have more DebConf12 sponsors?
18:59:24 <FBI> debconf-team: 3 gaudenz committed revision 1651 to debconf-team: Add donors list on website proposed by h01ger
18:59:24 <FBI> debconf-team: files changed: U   dc12/consultants_mail.txt
18:59:25 <FBI> debconf-team: 3 n0rman-guest committed revision 1652 to debconf-team: updating ledger
18:59:26 <FBI> debconf-team: files changed: U   dc12/ledger-dc12
18:59:38 <moray> n0rman: yeah
18:59:39 <h01ger> n0rman, more positive wording, but yes
19:00:08 <n0rman> h01ger: yes, I can write something this week, maybe we can write in debconf blog
19:00:12 <gaudenz> why does it take more than an hour for FBI messages to get to the channel?
19:00:17 <h01ger> n0rman, sure
19:00:28 <h01ger> thats the place for such things
19:00:45 <h01ger> gaudenz, because the machine is too loaded
19:01:05 <moray> any more sponsorship topics that require discussion?
19:01:46 <n0rman> moray: if we can't reach the budget with sponsorship, do we ask to debian for money? or we will delete things from the budget?
19:01:55 <moray> both
19:01:58 <cate> moray: who will send to me (and other "profi" the invoices?
19:02:38 <moray> cate: that's not sponsorship team I think, it should be the money-tracking team (which may not exist yet?)
19:03:06 <h01ger> cate, invoice from ffis or spi?
19:03:12 <n0rman> cate: I think registration team is in charge of that? darst am I right?
19:03:23 <h01ger> both n0rman, zumbi ad me can request invoices from spi+ffis
19:03:34 <h01ger> ah
19:03:43 <h01ger> "profi"...
19:03:59 <n0rman> profi? professional?
19:04:01 <n0rman> cate:
19:04:14 <cate> yes, the professional level
19:04:53 <n0rman> cate: if i'm right, you need to ask to registration tam once you make the payment, so we can ask to FFIs or SPI for the invoice
19:05:07 <h01ger> n0rman, or isic creates them directly?
19:05:26 <n0rman> h01ger: right, ISIC can do it, if you make the payment to ISIC :)
19:05:31 <n0rman> next topci?
19:05:35 <h01ger> no
19:05:48 <h01ger> i'm not sure cate got an answer
19:06:08 <n0rman> cate it's clear to you?
19:06:30 <cate> I think someone should write mail to all profesional attendees
19:07:21 <h01ger> cate, do you want to be that someone? }:-)
19:07:24 <n0rman> cate: thanks, yes, it's neccesary to write them and remind they need to pay and ask us if they need an invoice
19:07:31 <n0rman> cate: join the registration team :)
19:07:40 <cate> ok
19:08:10 <n0rman> ok, next?
19:08:11 <h01ger> cate, \o/ !!1 its a job you'll need to repeat in 2+4 weeks, ie when debconf starts and the last register...
19:08:41 <h01ger> #info cate will cater prof+corp attendees and make sure they get invoices and generally feel welcome ;)
19:09:00 <cate> "Obviously" someone should correct my English
19:09:25 <h01ger> cate, -team is usually very fast+good at that
19:09:32 <h01ger> (next i think)
19:09:42 <moray> #topic AOB
19:09:52 <moray> oh
19:09:58 <moray> someone added 1000 itmes
19:09:59 <n0rman> AOB?
19:10:00 <moray> sigh
19:10:03 <n0rman> :S
19:10:16 <h01ger> nomada, all open beers
19:10:17 <cate> Food: about water, and GSOC
19:10:20 <h01ger> n0rman, ^
19:10:23 <moray> #topic GSOC students sponsoring
19:10:26 <darst> back
19:10:30 <moray> why is this a general meeting topic?
19:10:33 <darst> but talk to me after meeting
19:10:52 <h01ger> moray, cause you made it? why not? whats to discuss anyway?
19:10:58 <gaudenz> I made it
19:11:27 <gaudenz> ehm someone sent a mail to all the students telling them that they could attend debconf, right?
19:11:46 <gaudenz> http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/soc-coordination/2012-May/001245.html
19:12:15 <h01ger> interesting
19:12:33 <h01ger> "If you are interested in going to DebConf, please let us know." - /me wonders who is us here
19:12:34 <cate> gaudenz: what about deadlines? And are there already new sponsored registrants?
19:12:37 <moray> same silliness as every year from GSOC?
19:12:55 <h01ger> well, "they" could just pay for all students as corp. attendees
19:12:59 <h01ger> attending is free always
19:13:00 <moray> yes
19:13:02 <h01ger> so
19:13:07 <moray> I don't see that we need a DebConf discussion about that
19:13:12 <gaudenz> I don't know... I guess that was a reaction to my inquiry on the list, but not at all coordinated with me...
19:14:09 <cate> in the lists I think peopla agreeded to permit sponsorship to some further GSOC people (IIRC)
19:14:30 <gaudenz> I there was some agreement on the debconf-team list that we could accept late food and accomodation sponsoring requests from GSOC students, right?
19:14:31 <moray> I kept out of that as my response was "same silliness as every year from GSOC"
19:14:38 <moray> except that we have less money this time
19:14:55 <h01ger> to be fair i think its not "agreed" but rather just one reply
19:15:19 <gaudenz> that's what I meant with "some agreement"
19:15:25 <gaudenz> did not count the mails
19:15:48 <h01ger> get some more sponsors and we can sponsor a lot more ;)
19:15:51 <gaudenz> IMHO that's the part that belongs to this meeting.
19:15:58 <moray> but, since a list discussion started, I would continue it there rather than in the meeting
19:16:02 <cate> ok, reading gwolf mail, it seems that money should come from external sources (debian, google,...)
19:16:03 <moray> gaudenz: which part?
19:16:32 <gaudenz> If we even want to consider sponsoring food and accomodation for GSOC students that did not register before the deadline.
19:16:52 <h01ger> gaudenz, yes. but without money there is no money to distribute. i was+am enthusiastic of the idea of making exceptions for eg gsoc students but when i'm reminded that we have no money i think that this exception is rather a bad idea
19:16:59 <moray> If GSOC want special treatment, I would prefer they find special money for it
19:17:19 <moray> not just declare that they will take some of the limited DebConf money for their people
19:17:22 <h01ger> though if i'd liked the idea very much i would ask for general debian funds for it
19:17:25 <cate> So I propose to pospone the discussion. We should start the sponsoring team and see how many money we will have
19:17:34 <moray> or can I also declare Moray's Summer of Code and get DebConf money late for people I choose?
19:17:37 <h01ger> eg how debconf newbees was financed in last year
19:17:53 <h01ger> (which i'd be very happy if someone would redo this this year again!!)
19:18:28 * h01ger is confused about "starting the sponsoring team", i think we have both these teams?!
19:18:30 <moray> using Google money sounds more appropriate
19:18:45 <gaudenz> OK so we wait to see how many students are interested at all, then see how much money Sukhbir gets from Google and then if there is anything left for Debian to sponsor.
19:18:50 <h01ger> moray, well, they work on debian..
19:19:03 <cate> h01ger: after the first meeting (so when we start to really work)
19:19:22 <moray> h01ger: so do lots of other people, that doesn't in itself justify prioritising this group with special money and exceptions
19:19:25 <h01ger> cate, so you mean the sponsorship-spending team :) (not the -getting)
19:19:43 <moray> we covered both directions earlier in the meeting
19:19:46 <cate> h01ger: ah yes.
19:19:47 <h01ger> <h01ger> eg how debconf newbees was financed in last year
19:19:47 <h01ger> <h01ger> (which i'd be very happy if someone would redo this this year again!!)
19:19:50 <moray> (which is now far over time)
19:21:10 <moray> #topic Food team status
19:21:15 <moray> what was the urgent discussion point on this?
19:22:04 <mangodrosa> tickets?
19:22:25 <moray> that doesn't sound urgent today, please explain if it is
19:22:38 <mangodrosa> no, it isn't
19:23:01 <mangodrosa> don't really feel something is urgent
19:23:49 <mangodrosa> everything's going well with our provider
19:23:52 <moray> (xamanu added this)
19:24:09 <h01ger> food is always urgent! :)
19:24:26 <moray> h01ger: yes, mine is very urgent, that's why I wanted the meeting over 25 minutes ago :p
19:24:41 <moray> #topic AOB
19:25:38 <n0rman> When can we start to move money from FFIS/SPI to ISIC?
19:26:02 <n0rman> we are very close, and it would be good to start thinking in this now
19:26:31 <moray> Well, you need to find out how to do it / how long it takes, and when you need the money there
19:26:42 <moray> (And how much money you will have from local sources, directly)
19:26:51 <h01ger> n0rman, also we need to have budget explainign how much we need to
19:26:54 <moray> yes
19:27:15 <n0rman> moray: I have the information about how to do it, it take like 2-3 weeks
19:27:18 <n0rman> xamanu: are you there?
19:27:30 <xamanu> yes
19:27:58 <n0rman> xamanu: when do we need the money?
19:28:18 <moray> n0rman: hm, you might also want to check the law on bringing physical money then....
19:28:33 <n0rman> h01ger: I think the budget is very realistic, we are updating the budget with realistic information
19:28:45 <xamanu> n0rman: it depends. we were talking weeks ago that it would be good to start paying a part to UCA to get them compromised to the event
19:28:52 <n0rman> moray: people carying money to Nicaragua?
19:28:56 <h01ger> n0rman, +everyhitng needs to be spend in .ni
19:29:02 <xamanu> n0rman: further we have to start buying things at least 1 week before DebCamp
19:29:11 <xamanu> and this is within 3-4 weeks
19:29:24 <n0rman> h01ger: I think yes, everything nees to be spend in .ni
19:29:35 <moray> n0rman: if it takes 2-3 weeks for money to come, and it's legal to just carry it in, we might want to do that for part of the money
19:29:39 <xamanu> we will need money to block the Hotels
19:29:46 <n0rman> xamanu: right, so I think we need to start now
19:29:49 <xamanu> i think we should have done this already...
19:30:06 <n0rman> moray: people can enter to Nicaragua with less than 10000USD
19:30:37 <n0rman> 10000USD and more needs to be declared with customs
19:31:36 <h01ger> then please add a timeline to the budget
19:31:44 <h01ger> explaining how much money we need when
19:31:47 <moray> right, you need to push this to make sure you get money in time
19:32:00 <moray> (not just assume it will happen :)
19:32:09 <moray> but we can't do much about it in the meeting now
19:32:25 <h01ger> moray has a point (and is hungry)
19:32:30 <xamanu> moray, right. especially if it last 3 weeks. this really surprises me.
19:32:35 <n0rman> moray: yes, I know we can't do anything now, at least you can tell us what to do
19:32:38 <xamanu> how will we block the hotels then?
19:32:45 <h01ger> next meeting, next tuesday, 18 utc?
19:33:04 * n0rman is hungry too
19:33:11 <xamanu> ok
19:33:17 <moray> xamanu: has some money been obtained locally?  (I thought there would be some local sponsors paying directly)
19:33:18 <h01ger> #info we (locals) need to find out out to block+hotels now
19:33:28 <n0rman> so, we need to add a timeline in the budget? then ask who about transfer money to .ni?
19:33:39 <h01ger> n0rman, yes
19:33:40 <moray> #info "block" = book
19:33:59 <moray> #info = reserve
19:34:17 <n0rman> moray: we are waiting 5000EUR and we have 1000USD that it will be pay directly to the provider we tell our sponsor
19:34:22 * h01ger suggest moray gets himself a thesaurus ;)
19:34:27 <xamanu> n0rman: do we have local money already?
19:34:31 <moray> h01ger: but "block" doesn't mean this :p
19:34:36 <n0rman> xamanu: not yet
19:34:59 <moray> h01ger: except in some international DebConf jargon
19:35:42 <h01ger> n0rman, which provider=
19:35:43 <h01ger> ?
19:35:55 <h01ger> ah
19:36:02 <h01ger> $something_provider
19:36:04 <h01ger> next meeting, next tuesday, 18 utc?
19:36:11 <xamanu> +1
19:36:17 <n0rman> h01ger: yes, we still doesn'tknow wich provider
19:36:47 <h01ger> #agreed next meeting, next tuesday, 18 utc
19:36:58 <moray> thanks
19:37:01 <moray> #endmeeting